Losing faith in humanity

Francisco d'Anconia

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penkitten said:
money is the root to all evil!!!

i cant believe no one else said that yet.
I beg to differ (I've always wanted to say that). Here's a few excerps of the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears not all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor--your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money, Is this what you consider evil?

...
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

...

"Money is your means of survival. The verdict you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?

...

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world? You are.

...
"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide-- as, I think, he will.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."
 

Nighthawk

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The correct line is 'The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.'

Not completely true, but punchier than the more accurate 'The love of money can often be problematic for wider society and unsatisfying for the individual.'
 

penkitten

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Nighthawk said:
The correct line is 'The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.'

Not completely true, but punchier than the more accurate 'The love of money can often be problematic for wider society and unsatisfying for the individual.'
or how about "the NEED for money is the root of all evil"????
 

STR8UP

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
I beg to differ (I've always wanted to say that). Here's a few excerps of the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.
As soon as I get an extra 2136 hours to spare I'm gonna finish reading that sucker.

The fact is, money changes the dynamic of most relationships.

I would have several more friends today if I hadn't gotten involved in some sort of business arrangement with them, putting myself directly in the path of destruction. But to tell you the truth, I don't care that I lost them as friends because I mixed my friendship with business. The way I see it, they showed me their true colors, and I am better off not being associated with them.

When you think about it, this parallels male/female relations. If you want to keep someone as a friend, don't get into a relationship with them, and don't involve them with your financial affairs.

It's all about the survival thing. As soon as you bring another person into that sphere, you create the possibility for a bad situation.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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STR8UP said:
As soon as I get an extra 2136 hours to spare I'm gonna finish reading that sucker.
The actual speech is about twice as long but is worth reading just to see another perspective.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

I was waiting on FDA to post that line. The minute I heard..."Money is the root of all Evil," my Rand-Alarm went off and I thought..."FDA will post on this, Have you considered what the root of money is?" Sadly, most people don't. It's production and creation, thinking, innovation. And then ask...why do people do it? Why do the produce, create, and innovate?

That drug dealer, though he spreads poison-wares, maybe fending for his family, or kids. Is that evil? He may have a conscious. Enron/AA were supposedly doing good works, but one could argue their impact on the economy and people's lives, despite the legal aspect of their business is WORSE than the drug dealer who maybe fending for his life. In the case of a drug dealer, nobody pushes drugs on the user, and people have as great, if not greater addictions to booze and food. I'm purely providing examples, but money isn't the root of evil, when the root of money is human desire, producton, creation, and innovation. It's what that persons motivation to produce is. Tony Montana had a drive and motivation, but one could say HIS motivation for money was evil.

Anyways...

I've been there with you STR8UP. No business deals, but money involved, and some gf's. I don't lose faith in humanity, because I've had none to begin with. Maybe it's me, or maybe it's lessons I've learned, or things I've read, but I've never wrapped MY expectations around what I think someone else is, or is supposed to be. I let day to day actions dictate who they are. AFC's get so bent out of shape b/c a gf goes from total love and infatuation to dislike in an instant, and the AFC can't fathom why because she's been into him for 2 years, but is out of in 1 day. Now she's been a douche bag for weeks, and he persecutes himself because of the 2 years. Alot of friends will fall on the sword for friends for a long time, until their image of who they are in their mind has finally changed and realigned to who they are now.

And yes, I know we ALL want or deserve passes, but IMO and experience, people being A-holes, is purely a CONSCIOUS choice. Not calling a friend, big deal. People need a break, and they're not obligated to call. That's what makes relationships good and pure, the fact that there's no obligation. Once obligation comes into play, all the magic of a relationship falls away, and it becomes a master-slave situation. Once a man/woman becomes SO possessive over something, the basis for beginning any relationship stops. The joy we receive from a relationship is the fact we are one of a peron's many WANTS, or needs. Once it becomes a YOU HAVE TO situation, all magic and enjoyment is lost.

I've given passes to friends. But guess what, I've never personally NEEDED someone to give me a pass as a friend. I've never cheated on anyone, or with anyone's gf. I've never stolen money from anyone, or borrowed and not paid back. It isn't that I wouldn't and don't have friends...but when i extent myself, if I'm not prepared to lose, then I can't enjoy winning. If I lend a friend money, KNOWING they may not pay it back, I Have to be prepared for no money being returned, and a lost friend.

I've read alot of buddhist teachings, and even recently began going back to Bikram Yoga for my golf game and general well-being. There's a different mindset when you find like minded people and build a solid relationship over years. Of course, if something happens with a 20 year old friend, there's nothing you can do about it...It happens. I know people so cynical they miss out on friendships, period. That's sad. And then I know people so desperate for something to do or companionship, they surround themselves with friends who are really enemies.

What humanity needs is a good dose of reality medicine.

"You can't take this crap with you people! This world isn't real! When you die, it's over! The only thing that remains is the self you came with, and the self you'll leave with! And that will most likely be memories and realization of who you are and what you did! What will you remember most about being here? What will you be most regretful for having done? What will you be most happy for having accomplished?"

The moments I'm personally proud of are the moments I do something when nobody is around, like when I help a random stranger and my family, gf, friends, and no one else is there. Or when I can help someone who never thought they could be helped or find any answers.

I guess it comes down to modifying your own thoughts, beliefs, or expectations of humanity, or finding that which seek you in people.

A-Unit
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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A-Unit said:
...
What humanity needs is a good dose of reality medicine. ...
Which reminds me of a line from the first Batman movie where Jack Nicholson playing The Joker says "This town needs an enema!!! ***Pfweeeeeettttttt****" (blows a party favor).

There's a lot of things that could benefit mankind but the fact that it's difficult to institute changes when working with the masses. One needs to work with independent thinkers in order to just have their ideas considered.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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penkitten said:
or how about "the NEED for money is the root of all evil"????
Money is just a tool. Like a toothbrush it depends on how it's used if it's even used at all.
 
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penkitten said:
money is the root to all evil!!!

i cant believe no one else said that yet.

thats because you are stupid,marx

"So you think that money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal wlth one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? "
 
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Francisco d'Anconia said:
I beg to differ (I've always wanted to say that). Here's a few excerps of the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

[]​


my bad lol, i didnt read that until i posted.

good quote​
 

Oxide

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Jesus christ.

Ok, let me play my "I am young and I know everything card", courtesy of Oscar Wilde.


Don't disclose how much you have in the bank.
Don't flaunt money in front of your friends too much.
DO NOT ENTER IN BUSINESS WITH FRIENDS. - fvck, dude im 22 and i know this.
See the things for what they are, not what you want them to be.
Don't condemn all because of the few.

Your friend decided to fvck you over? tough ****. You ever heard -"you can only expect a dog to act like a dog". Similarly, a ***** is a ***** and when a person sees a lot of money in front of them they want it. Don't act like you wouldn't take $5000 if it was laying around with nobody to claim it.

I mean you are brining up good points- i have GREAT friends but sometimes they show me that I don't know them as well as they know themselves. NOBODY KNOWS ME AS WELL AS I KNOW MYSELF.. I do/think some sh1t that my friend's would probably never consider and I am THE MOST TRANSPARENT PERSON I KNOW.

so what do you do? First, you stop crying and b!tching. You stop blaming the world and feeling bad about what "others" are forcing you to feel. Do you even know how to make good friends? Do you have people that you trust well enough?

Dont get me wrong, I love my friends and have done a lot for them..but at the same time there are THINGS I WILL NOT DO. I will not get into criminal things just because i am a friend and I will NOT LEND MONEY. Unless it is in writing and even then I will probably say no. (depends on amount).

MONEY COMPLICATES THINGS. keep your family and cash separated, listen to BIG.
 
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