LJBF -> LFRN

[Astaroth]

You're entirely right in that I should move on... that's what my friends are telling me and I know that that's what I should do...

You're wrong in that I shouldn't buy her reasons... She didn't say 'I didn't know what I was doing", in fact, she said she did know what she was doing, and she doesn't regret it, and she thought it was amazing too... but she thinks that it's not the right way to develop our relationship... That's what I don't understand, and I'm going to confront her and tell her to tell me precisely what she means so that I can understand it as much as possible and get some closure on this thing.

I really really want to be able to just put it all in the past and move on... But I can't. I won't say I'm in love with her, cause I don't think I am, there is just something that makes me really believe that a relationship between us would be something extraordinary. Yes, this is incredibly AFC, I know I am suffering from an acute case of one-itis, but her not telling me that theres no chance of anything between us is not helping.

Seriously, I would rather she told me "NO, there is no chance we will ever be anything more than friends, drop it, here's a cute chick I know, go out with her". Instead, she told me she's attracted to me, she thinks I'm irresistible, she thinks that a relationship between us would work sometime in the future, all this **** is not helping, cause if I just move on and turn my back on her, and she decides that it IS time for that relationship, I won't be there and the opportunity will be forever lost.

She is the kind of girl that wouldn't get into anything unless she is sure of her feelings, and if she isn't sure, she gets out as soon as possible to minimise the pain (i.e. what happened between us). She is not changing her mind all the time... in fact I think she might have made up her mind that she definitely doesn't want a relationship ever, but she hasn't told me clearly yet.

Dammit, I'm such a lame pathetic AFC

 

[DJ Wez]

Originally posted by Astaroth
... She didn't say 'I didn't know what I was doing"

Ooh... my fault. I was too lazy to remember word for word what you wrote sorry

 

[DJ Wez]

Ok now that I read this thoroughly:

Originally posted by Astaroth
......I'm going to confront her and tell her to tell me precisely what she means so that I can understand it as much as possible and get some closure on this thing.

When my ex-gf called it off with me, it was a matter of time where she kissed me out of nowhere at some random moment. I then asked her "Why the hell did you just kiss me?" She didn't even answer. Actually she did, she said "ionno."

What I just said kind of digressed from the point. My point then is that if you ask--or confront, as you put it--this girl what she means--don't expect a genuine answer because she'll confuse you even more!!! She probably doesn't even know what she wants!

Don't base your judgement on this girl from what she says. This is already giving me dreary flashbacks of my now-forever-abandoned AFC/one-itis.

...Would be something extraordinary. Yes, this is incredibly AFC, I know I am suffering from an acute case of one-itis, but her not telling me that theres no chance of anything between us is not helping.

WOULD be extraordinary. But do you know what I suspect? I suspect this girl is treating you like an insurance policy. Who knows, but it makes sense to say that she doesn't want you off her leash. What better feeling is there for her to know that you're there if she needs or occasionally wants you, minus the obligation of a commitment?

This is first-hand experience. The girl I was with kept telling me how she "loved me" and wanted to be with me again "someday." She would endlessly profess to me how one day she wanted to marry me, etc., etc.... eventually I caught on that BS and told her to just shut her BS talk for good. Wait, but get this! She said, "but--but--there is no other guy like you. I can't imagine being with anyone other than you. EVER!"

Oooh and guess what? She's now dating some AFC whom I feel very sorry for.

Seriously, I would rather she told me "NO, there is no chance we will ever be anything more than friends, drop it, here's a cute chick I know, go out with her". Instead, she told me she's attracted to me, she thinks I'm irresistible, she thinks that a relationship between us would work sometime in the future, all this **** is not helping, cause if I just move on and turn my back on her, and she decides that it IS time for that relationship, I won't be there and the opportunity will be forever lost.

OF COURSE she's not going to be blunt with you. She knows you want her, and as long as that's true, she has this reassurance that if there isn't a greater catch in her foreseeable future, she could always resort to you--like a backup college. Do you enjoy that feeling? Because that's what's happening most likely.

Remember I'm saying this from experience. My exgf told me how "hot" I was and how she wanted me in bed time after time. With girls, words mean nothing if it's only words. Get with the cliche that actions speak louder than words.

I've been on this site for many months now, I just don't post very often. Are you new to this message board? There are a great number of articles that wrestle this issue. But here:

You said you won't be there and the opportunity will be forever lost? That's where you need to start empowering yourself with a new idea of thinking. Once you give up this obvious distraction to your life, you can focus on building your mindset from within. After reading the DJB & Eventually you'll realize that other girls--much more attractive in every facet--will come magnetizing towards you.

And then this "opportunity?" You'll probably have a new terminology. Best way to put it: "Hassle" It's likely you'll have no idea what I'm talking about right now, but as for your one-itis... it's one sick plague.

In fact I think she might have made up her mind that she definitely doesn't want a relationship ever, but she hasn't told me clearly yet.

I believe she already did make her mind. Don't expect her to be straightforward.

Wake up to reality.

I'm about to go now, but understand that the reason I spent my time posting this is because I've been through the same (of course not exactly, but close enough) debacle a few years ago. So your story hits me personally.

In the time between then and now, I've grown exponentially and wish to see less men experience what you, I, and a ton of other people who came to this site have seen.

Call it off, go on with life, start improving yourself, and become a living testimony to potential AFCs you are friends with.

Many people who post stuff never read the DJB. Read it well and come back and read your posts again. You'll have a totally epiphanic experience. (If you haven't read it already)

Good luck.

 

[Miles Davis]

Man, I'm glad I found this thread just in time.

I am in very similar situations to cynetix and Astaroth. I won't get into it here because I've explained it so much to a few people I'm tight with, but I'll just say that I completely relate.

Moving on hurts, I'm only a couple days into it, and it hurts like hell. It's hard to imagine that things will be much better one day, but I guess you have to keep doing your thing and stop worrying about everyone else.

Thanks DJ's

 

[PEACEDJ]

Thanks for the tips man I'll remember this one.

 

[The Main Event]

Originally posted by cynetix
Need to bump this so it doesn't scroll off, because I have an amusing update to post when I have the time *grin*.

Hi cynetix,

I loved the original post, mostly because it's the first post that (correctly) identified that LJBF can be overcome... while at the same time (wisely) insisting on discipline in the way you go about it. This post is a treasure, and I'm glad you didn't let it fade away completely.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to the update. (Sequel?)


I am
The Main Event.

 

[Astaroth]

Yeah, I'd like to take my turn in praising this thread... It's truly brilliant, this is a tried and tested technique and it works... Cynetix, you are the MAN! Now bring that update!

Here's my update:

I confronted her... and it turns out things arent quite like you say they'd be... She wasn't experimenting on me. Her intentions were pure. I dunno if I should go into details cause they don't contribute to the thread in any way, if you want to know about it, my MSN is Email address removed <Edited by Ruler 6/27/15> , drop me a line and we'll talk. The point is... she knows how she feels about me but she's not sure why.. She asked for my forgiveness for hurting me... I said that I only forgive her now that I understood what happened, and I do forgive her.

Most importantly, I'm moving on. Yes. I've already started moving on. The DJ machine is kicking into action, and nothing can stop me (except this fvcking annoying flu I managed to pick up last night)

 

[Addicted]

1 question... after you cut your self off from the girl and when u do start talkin again are you supposed to ask her out to do something or are you supposed to wait for her to ask... ??

 

[vdk]

This LJBF issue is a serious one for most men. When most people say move on, its hard because the woman is usually a 8+ overall and since we already fallen for her its hard to bail out.

I am in a similar situation except I wasnt acting AFC from the beginning. She would pick me up once a week on monday and drive me to the campus. We would have lunch but usually in a group of like 20 people. I acted DJ'ish e.g. left when I felt bored, acted confident, cracked the odd joke or two, kino her, eye contact. Problem is I have grown REALLY attached to this gal to the point where my mind is totally farked up. Basically its the neverending clash of good (DJ) vs evil (her) in my head. And since I only see her once a week makes it worse for me. I've asked her out but she turned me down twice due to excuses. During my AFC days I could handle LJBF's, but now even after discovering this site, I am acting AFCish over this gal.

Guys I really need your help on this.

 

[cynetix]

The issue of "The One"

The "update" I had promised to post happened so long ago that it barely seems like an update anymore, but I will still write of it, and also give an update to that update *grin*.

First, I need to qualify for you what this girl means to me and the role she seems to have played so far in my life. This subject of "her role in my life" is a HUGE one and of GREAT interest and I will address it again at the end of the post as well as right now.

She's really special to me. I had major one-itis, for sure, and it was actually justified. (Plenty of cases of one-itis are NOT as justified, meaning they arise primarily because you do not have enough going on in your life and/or are desperate to get it on with the only love interest that is currently paying any attention to you.) On these grounds, I can now reveal the conclusion:

We are not together...not even really talking...but I believe it is a good thing, and while we really may end up together one day, I sincerely believe our ways will part for at least several years, and that is good.

So, to rewind the tape to that "amusing update"...!

She went on a trip overseas and upon returning was so excited to see me that she wanted to do stuff all the time. I was a little surprised by this but indulged her a little and figured I'd try her out to see where she was on the whole romance thing.

So I asked her once when we were out to lunch how her love life was doing, and she said nonexistent. She asked me about mine, and as I did have some rather complicated girl drama issues I told her about some of it.

A little background here: we had never talked about relationships. Maybe it was always that way and maybe it contributed to the LJBFing in the first place, but that was just the way it was.

So now here she was dying to know and prodding me about details, almost apprehensively so. She wanted to know if I was seeing anyone, the sexual intimacy details involved with them, etc. There had been none of this in the past.

So...interesting. I dropped her off and we arranged to meet later in the evening.

Much later we walk to this park and she's hanging on to me like a drunk girl who can't walk straight (though she's sober) and is telling me how much she had missed me and so on. I am getting so many vibes that I decide the night is a good night to close the deal.

On our way back we start talking about learning from past experiences, and the conversation happens like this:

Me: It's awesome being able to look back on situations that used to intimidate you but realizing that they don't anymore.
Her: Like what?
Well like simply talking to girls for example...I used to be so intimidated but now it's so obvious that it's not really a big deal.
I see...Good job!
But it's funny...I can't reconcile why I was able to get over that so easily, but

*I circle around in front of her and put my arms on her waist*

when I do this, I still feel scared shìtless. Why is that?
*Clearly nervous now* I don't know, why is that?
Hehe, I was hoping YOU would answer that!
Well I feel it too--this uncomfortable feeling (not a good sign)
I think we need to resolve it once and for all
I agree. How do you think we could do that?

From there, I gave her the look, and then moved in to kiss...and this is where you are welcome to flame away for my approach above...because she pushed me away.

!!!

I really thought she was telling me all day and night that she wanted me, with her language and gestures and posture and all that, but I was utterly wrong. I even asked her why she was scared, and she said that it was possible she was scared, but more likely that she just didn't want to.

This was "amusing" to me because I would have never in our past have been able to do this, and now that I was able...it ended up this way.

We are leaving the distant past now...

---
To date, our contact has fallen off. I know that you all (or anyone that is interested in this thread) wished very much that my sequel would be a "positive" one, something that will give you hope. A story to validate the LJBF to LFRN transition and show that it is possible.

I don't have a story that enacts it like you want to see it...but what I have to say subsequently is extremely positive.

You see, I was very right and very wrong when I said long ago that I needed to end our relationship and we were incompatible. I was right that our relationship needed to end, but compatibility was always there, and I always knew it, no matter how much I tried to deny it.

The point is, I have only recently really, truly, confronted the actual issue at hand, which is this: WHY did I like her so much? Why do I feel she is without flaw, even though I know logically that she OF COURSE CANNOT BE PERFECT? Passing her off as "not significant" is DENIAL. I know that the DJs here will tell you again and again that she's "just another fish in the sea."

It is true, but there is SOMETHING, or many things, about her that is very special, and I say you should not overlook that. It will always come back to haunt you until you face it. Embrace it. Use that intuition to discover WHY you like her the way you do. WHAT is it about her that turns you into a simpering AFC no matter how suave you are with the other girls?

Do you not realize that because she drives you nuts from wanting to be with her, that she is compelling you to improve yourself? To know yourself better, to become more confident, to rid yourself of those flaws that you feel she exposes every time you come anywhere near her?

I believe that her role in your life is to make you a better man. Were it not for her, you would be an ignorant fool still bumbling around in darkness. Her presence is capable of lifting you up higher than you could ever have imagined. And thus her presence is a double-edged sword. You cannot have her, you will not have her, at least not at this stage in your life (we are probably talking about anytime within the next five years, if at all), because if you DID then you would not be compelled to improve.

Therefore.

Let her disappear.

You cannot succeed until you do.

cynetix

 

[Mr. Fingers]

Wow. Its really a strange coincidence to see this post bumped up as I am typing up my personal escape from LJBF land. I would post it here, but its a doozy so I will just start a new thread.

I really like your attitude cynetix. You must be beating those ladies away with a stick by now

 

[NMMWCR]

I believe that her role in your life is to make you a better man. Were it not for her, you would be an ignorant fool still bumbling around in darkness. Her presence is capable of lifting you up higher than you could ever have imagined. And thus her presence is a double-edged sword. You cannot have her, you will not have her, at least not at this stage in your life (we are probably talking about anytime within the next five years, if at all), because if you DID then you would not be compelled to improve.

Sounds like Jungian synchronicity to me. You had some kind of internal issue that needed to be dealt with so your subconsious latched onto this girl to provide you with incentive to confront an internal fear.

There is an amusing (if wordy!) primer on this precise process at http://www.seducingwomen101.com Worth a read if you want to dig at the root of WHY you develop irrational compulsive behavior around certain women who happen to display your archetype characteristics.

Great post cynetix. There are far too posts around here delving into what our compulsions MEAN. Everyone is so busy trying to figure out HOW that hardly anyone takes to the time to determine WHY.

 

[NewMan]

So what I get here, is that us guy's are really miss reading these womens intentions - or rather their words do not correspond to their actions?

So the question is, how do we differentiate and really find out what the hell is going on?

I'm in a simular situation.

Broke up with the ex - 4 months later she calling me back. She's not a new guy, she's not happy.

She dumps new guy, hangs out - wants to go out with me.

We go out.

She invites me to her family for thanksgiving.

She calls last Friday - we make plans to do something on the weekend - I call her Saturday - she doesn't pick up her cell or home phone and does not return my call.

So, my reaction is to cut off contact - basically I've been available for her - we've go out on a few dates, but she's not yet made any kind of sign that she wants more - in fact she says she's open for it, but that she wants to take it slow.

I think my only option here is to cut her off and let her do the chasing - if that's what she wants.

I think as guys we give women to much power over us.

It's very difficult because emotions are involved on both sides. The fact that we were in a 4.5 yr relationship changes my situation slightly.

I'm starting to think that I should have listened to those other DJ's - when it's over, it OVER. no looking back. Move on - adious.


But as in the start of this post, some things are just worth the fight.

 

[cynetix]

Originally posted by NewMan
So what I get here, is that us guy's are really miss reading these womens intentions - or rather their words do not correspond to their actions?

So the question is, how do we differentiate and really find out what the hell is going on?

...

I think as guys we give women to much power over us.

Exactly! We give them SO MUCH, in fact, that the only way to really KNOW what the hell is going on is to NOT HAVE TO CARE!

Does that seem ridiculous? If so, think about it long and hard.

The mere attitude we have of wanting to know what's going on inside women's heads and what their intentions are is severely counterproductive.

The bottom line is, these girls LIKE us. A whole lot, I might add! If we could only just let them like us without second guessing their moves and getting in THEIR way, all battles would be won. (At least, they used to like us--and we, by not already "knowing" that they did, gave ourselves the grand opportunity to screw everything up.)

Do you think it's mere coincidence that the more you like a particular girl, the more she seems to fück with your head?

Do you think that you like her that much BECAUSE she has the tendency to fück you up so you can't think straight anymore?

Of course not.

You're getting fücked up because you like her so much.

Look at it this way: any girl you are ready, and feel you have to "fight for" is almost by default unavailable to you because you feel she is putting up a fight. It is almost a surefire signal that you are not ready, because the greatest obstacle in the way is still your own inchoate self. And if you really understand where I am coming from, then it is crystal clear that this is good news.

cynetix

 

[cynetix]

NMMWCR,

Originally posted by NMMWCR

Sounds like Jungian synchronicity to me. You had some kind of internal issue that needed to be dealt with so your subconsious latched onto this girl to provide you with incentive to confront an internal fear.

Well summarized!

It is damn obvious to me now that this is the issue behind EVERY guy's "The One". It is not so much that she IS the one, but rather that at that particular point in your life you perceive her to be all that.

Mr. Fingers,

Originally posted by Mr. Fingers
Wow. Its really a strange coincidence to see this post bumped up as I am typing up my personal escape from LJBF land. I would post it here, but its a doozy so I will just start a new thread.

I really like your attitude cynetix. You must be beating those ladies away with a stick by now

I loved your Escape tactics! Your attitude is excellent and I've always found that positivity is really almost "The Thing" to have, for millions of reasons. Above all, it simply makes you happy!

It's tough though, for budding DJs to assimilate those tactics into their behavior, because it really cannot be pulled off without sufficient self-confidence from guys who have not already handed over their balls to the women they've fallen for on silver platters. But there's the rub, so those who get it, get it.

cynetix

 

[NewMan]

It's so fvcking funny - what happened to me this week.

I've been reading the posts on How to make a firend a lover etc....

I called a chick last Saturday (we had talked Friday about going out Saturday or Sunday, dependent on my Kung Fu training schedule) - anyways, she never returned my call.

Monday came around - I had been thinking about her that weekend - but after I read some of these discussions, something happened to me.

I really could not give a sh#t what happened or whether she called me or I spoke to her again. It was actually very cool - for the first time in a while I felt free. Free of women - free of feeling like I needed to take some action to get a woman. I was actually thinking - you know I don't care - I'm doing just fine doing my own thing.

Well, I had a company xmas party to go to on Wednesday. So I called another chick that I've been dating very casually and asked her. She was enthusiastic (which made me feel good) I went and we had a blast. She even asked me if I was tired and wanted to stay the night when I dropped her off - but I refused. Told her I had to get up early in the morning for work - but that it sounded pretty good right then. Kiss closed and left.

Well, I'm chilling at home with a few friends and who should call? yeah my chick friend.


She wanted to know why I was avoiding her and not speaking.... You know, it felt like a power shift. Like I was in control over my actions and our friendship for the first time, instead of her being in control.

This si probably wondered off topic somewhat - but attitude is everything.

 

[Void]

Please help with this situation

Alright thanks that was pretty helpful. Right now there's this girl at this camp im going to. but i only have three days left to try to get her. (because im going away for the weekend and get back on wedenesday then we have thursday&friday) We have a camp out on wednesday . That could be a good time to make a move. But the only problem is i'm in the friend zone and i dont know how much she likes me. And theres one guy she flirts alot with. I do well when that guys not around. In short terms i need to get this guy out of the way and i need to get out of the friend zone in three days so in school it'll be easier to advance. What should I do??

 

[alakazam]

So....has anyone actually made the successful transition from LJBF -> LFRN with this method?

From reading the replies in this thread it seems no....

 

[SageOFAllenAge]

Its weird how this is a problem that plagues a lot of us, infact being in the buddy zone is what brought me to this place.

I personally believe its not worth getting into a relationship with the one who thought of you as a buddy & we're better off being with someone else who didnt put us through so much trauma.

One thing that i did do was change my wuss outlook in front of this girl afterall she was the one who said "Youre too nice for me" with that done and witnessing her changed attitude towards me, ive let go.

Too bad you didnt have a happy ending cynetix.

 

[Astaroth]

*digs up thread*

I don't know why I felt like digging this one up. Maybe some of the people who posted in this thread are still around, so I'll give you an update on what happened almost 2 years ago (wow - unbelievable that it has been this long), especially for the guy that said that he hasnt seen the technique work for anyone yet.

Guess what - the technique worked. It worked surprisingly well at that.

I won't go into detail cause most of it is just stuff you would read in the DJ Bible anyway, so I will just give you a summary of what happened after April 2003, which was the last time I posted in here.

Brief recap on the situation:
There was a weird situation between me and the girl where she kissed me and 2 days later told me she doesnt want a relationship. We were supposed to remain friends after that but, in fact, we started growing apart.

Around June we both started having final exams, and we were doing the same subjects even though she was a year lower than me so we started talking on the phone while studying a lot. These conversations started growing longer and including more personal stuff.. We started fearlessly asking each other VERY personal questions. We would talk on the phone for hours every day, almost constantly. Things eventually started really heating up between us, getting downright SEXUAL, which was a shockingly good step forward. All this happened in about 2 weeks during which we did not see each other at all and only talked on the phone.

After things got firmly heated up between us, i decided to just ask her what the hell was going on between us and were it was going. She said that she had thought about it a whole lot, and had not yet decided on what she wanted, but she agreed that we had obviously become a lot more than friends. I knew she was mine, there was just no turning back after the things we had said to each other in the preceding two weeks.

In two days we were making out all over her house while her parents were away thinking we were helping each other study physics. It felt like heaven, not only cause i finally got what i wanted for almost a year, but because it seemed she wanted this as much as i did. We officially became an "item" as of mid June, at the great shock of all our friends, and had a great summer vacation together. Things were moving just great until........ Until the day I had to join the army. We had known this all along of course, and I don't know whether I have mentioned this in this thread before, but the fact that I had to join the army for a 2 year mandatory service was one of the main reasons holding her back from forming a relationship with me. We had been sort of ignoring it. The day finally came, it was July 13th, and somehow something inside me told me that things were definitely going to change between us... and not for the better.

For the first 5 weeks I was in basic training so I was not getting much time out, only a couple of weekends during which we spent a good amount of time together. In the meantime, unavoidably, she met this guitarist guy who wanted her to sing on his heavy metal album. I thought nothing of it initially, I was glad she was going to get this opportunity. I even drove her to the guy's place right before I had to go back into base on my second outing.

On my third outing we went to a friend's birthday party, and she was acting very strangely. We got in the pool together and she was "playfully" trying to escape me, while at the same time being very "friendly". Later, she kept messaging someone on her mobile phone. I understood that it was that guy cause of something she said. Again, I thought nothing of it. They WERE talking all night though, while she was sort of avoiding me. I went back in the army the next day.

Two days later, as my basic training was drawing to a close, I found out that I had made the cadet officers list, and was to go off to Crete for 3 months training. I sort of knew that I would be going, and she knew as well, but again we were not really thinking about it... But I think she was. And she obviously was, because two days later, she sent me a text message which said "call me, i have something important to tell you but you might not like it". I called her and coldly said "what?"... after which she explained why we couldn't be together anymore. This was in mid-August 2003. 2 months after we got together with practically her initiation and she was breaking it off... over the ****ing PHONE! Needless to say, I was devastated. I asked her to tell me if she was cheating on me, and she sort of said no...

A week later was her birthday. She told me she wanted to talk to me alone, and told me she found someone new. Guess who. The guitarist guy. Beautiful. I don't really need to analyse the facts to make you see that she had obviously cheated on me while i was in the army. This made me feel like complete crap, so I proceded not to talk to her during the 3 months I was away.

After I came back, I continued to avoid and ignore her, when eventually one night in February 2004 she popped up on MSN making small talk. I recognised her conversation as one that would be leading to something important, and indeed it did. She APOLOGISED for breaking up with me. This made me look at her in a very different way. Immediately it seemed to me that she was making a compromise by being with that guy, and I think that at the time that's what the situation was. From then on it would be pointless to explain what happens because she is still with that guy, and they are both in the UK studying together, and are apparently quite happy with each other.

I have found roughly ZERO interesting women since then. The army has not been helping, cause even though I only have to go in during working hours, I get so exhausted that I sleep most of the time I am out. I rarely have enough energy to go hunting. Only recently have things started to ease up on me and have actually found one or two interesting women that i intend to exercise my DJ skills on.

But, in fact, the truth is I never really got over that girl, I don't think I ever will, cause she is actually a really amazing person and we still fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, which is at times completely infuriating. Here's hoping that I will meet someone that will make me forget about her.

The moral of this story is......

YES!!!! The LJBF --> LFRN technique DOES work! With fantastic results! Unless you are joining the army.