Living For the Moment vs. Pursuing Goals

Visceral

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Are living for the moment and pursuing goals mutually exclusive? I'm starting to think that they are, that there's no activity that is pleasurable in the here-and-now that also furthers a long-term goal.

I myself tend to live for the moment, that what motivates me to do or not do something is whether or not I'll enjoy doing it right now. What that action or inaction will get me down the road really doesn't enter into my thoughts, and when it does, it's a purely intellectual realization of the fact; there's no emotion attached to it.

I'm starting to think that this is not only my problem, but the problem a lot of men here and elsewhere have - we care about enjoying what we do, not what it will get us. It's why we don't work out, why we sit on our asses watching TV, and why we aren't going for an MBA - the payoff (or lack thereof) at the end isn't important to us, while how pleasurable (or merely easy) the effort is in-and-of-itself is.

The unfortunate result of this kind of thinking is the fact that, given the choice between something we enjoy that accomplishes nothing and something we don't enjoy that will accomplish a lot down the road, we chose the former every time.

Is it possible to correct this erroneous thinking? Is it possible to change and become the kind of men for whom it's the goal that's all-important and what we have to do and whether or not we enjoy it are irrelevant?
 

SamePendo

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In a financial point of view... Look at it this way. As I do:

- Look at making money, fortune, in the way STR8UP writes about.
- Spend lots of money, in a way that makes you get good credit. And when you're done, "living what there is to live" you've got good credit, and will get a good loan.
 

Nocturnal

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The problem with the "living for the moment" perspective is that the effects of an action during one instance of your life are not isolated to the immediate time frame. While it might be easy to say, "I should skip class to go to this concert, it will be worth it," the truth is that you are validating going to the concert because it benefits you, but you are overlooking whether it really will benefit you or not.

Have you ever heard someone say, "I know I should do ___, but I just don't feel like it."? Thinking this way is a contradiction. The reason is, by avoiding doing ____, you want to gain a value in the form of feeling better. The problem is, you might lose a greater value in the long run. Your actions and your intentions are in conflict. It's as if the "you" now is not the same person as the "you" in the future, so it is okay to let the negative consequences fall onto that other person, but in reality that other person is you.

I think this correlates closely to the explosion of the entertainment industry. People are more than willing to spend hours and hours watching television, movies, playing games, etc, because it keeps their minds occupied and they don't have to try very hard to enjoy it. In reality, they are letting their biological clocks tick and all of those hours will have contributed next to nothing long term in their lives. The value of watching a television show dissipates immediately once you stop watching it. This is not true for more productive things such as one's work, or even hobbies such as sports.

On a side note, Visceral, I would like to apologize for leaving you hanging in our discussion. I just haven't had the time or the energy to keep up. In fact, I've had about half of a response written for a while, waiting to finish it. If I find the time, I'll get back to it and we can continue, if you are still interested. If not, I would understand. By the way, in that discussion I posted a link to a website which could better explain what I was trying to explain. This was written by the same person: http://angermanagement.mu.nu/archives/025605.html, and has to do with getting over the urge to act irrationally (in your disinterest).
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Long-term goals are a series of short-term bursts and inspirations. It's only that the MIND operates in 3 places: PAST , PRESENT, FUTURE. So people are very delusional about reality, because the only thing REAL is your physical body. The MIND has the immense power to live in 3 planes, and does so, of which most people act on the BASIS of what happened (past) or what will or they want to happen (future), with little regard for HERE and NOW.

I'd had the same convo with someone regarding relationships. They asked "How do we (I) make it better?" You start by making NOW better so you look back and the POSITIVE outweighs the negative. A relationship is merely a string of POSITIVE or NEGATIVE outcomes forming the basis of a happy or sad relationship. Over TIME, people lose their lust or oneitis for an X because the NEGATIVE outweighs the positive, and your mind now has the vision that the person in the PAST is bad, and would rightly be Bad in the PRESENT and the FUTURE.

Goals are mutually exclusive of the future, when the expected outcome is equal to or less than what you invest. This is very common now in college educations. The hype is that, by getting a degree, you'll end up better off. THAT used to be the case, when the return on invested TIME and MONEY was roughly 10-100: 1. College used to cost 300$ and the graduate would earn 3000$, and on and on. But as soon as degrees became commonplace, the return relative to INVESTED dollars diminised, and margins declined. I use education as one example, because kids (18+) invest their childish youth on a career path they've probably only romanticized and never had any intimate contact with. Moreover, they invest upwards of $10000 per year, both in lost potential earnings, apprenticeship, and time, for the prospect of HIGHER future earnings. I won't debate the merits of education now.

But, if you put forth 4 years, 40k, and the lost opportunity for a degree you don't want to PASSIONATELY use, yes it's a waste. A total complete waste. Each course of your degree, IF passionately enjoyed, will ultimately lead to an easy and bright future.

If we're dealing in education here, then the reality is, a person who doesn't WANT to be at university will flunk out. They'll be forced SOMEHOW to get some occupation. Maybe they get 1 they like, and maybe they don't. But if they choose to remain a grocery bagger, so be it. That's their own life choice. Now, perhaps they realize they could run their OWN grocery store...what do they do?

They go to school to learn business, law, taxes, finance, marketing, sales, customer relations, and so forth COMBINED with their interest in the grocery business and EXCEL beyond their wildest dreams BECAUSE they have the desire and passion to execute.

Alot of advisors in Financial Planning, most notably Ric Edelman, began as a person who only wanted to know what to do financially, and ended up becoming wildly successful. They ended up broke, needed means to get out of debt, and then ended up with a new career path.

It doesn't always happen that way, but what is your purpose for existence beyond merely surviving ONCE you've accomplished that?

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See, in fitness guys have a problem sometimes doing it regularly, with discipline. The problem isn't that fitness/exercise isn't fun, it's what they LINK it to. Normally, they say to overweight guys 'Get in the gym.' Problem is...maybe it isn't what they like to do? Try golf, a martial art, bodyweight exercises, running, climbing, biking, and so forth. The gym isn't the only venue. But it's when people say "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY IT WORKS" Pleasure and Goals DO become mutually exclusive because they do not personalize them to the individual.

If you have passion for something and want to be the best at it, but don't want to put the time in, I'd question whether it's your true passion or not?

I golf, as I've stated many times. Putting in practice is like having sex or beating off palm children, it's ALL good. It's like watching football. Watching a BAD game is better than NOT watching one. There are SOME basics to life. You can't avoid the need to wash clothes, take showers, brush your teeth, etc. Those are a fact of life and comes with the responsibility of existence. However, beyond SURVIVAL is where goals come in, and whatever GOAL you define is meant to be exciting, scary, but something you REALLY want.

In sales, if you're ALREADY doing well, and enjoy, then making a sales goal to buy yourself a new car if you double or triple your sales, is natural, and it serves to motivate and validate your spending. However, if you set a sales goal for a product you're JUST learning to sell, or don't like, the goal won't be achieved. And what's the purpose of sacrificing ALL that time, stress, anxiety, and frustration, just to have something?

There's a value to GETTING that car, inasmuch as there's value IN THE CAR. But it has to be MORE than just the social approval you gather from it.

If I applied this logic to say, working out, and I found that I like bodyweight exercises, which are normally pushups, pullups, squats, and back bridges, I could challenge myself to do 1 more each day. And in doing so, I'd be materially improved in ALL aspects. But it's when you ALIGN goals with things you don't, they DO become mutually exclusive.

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Jim Rohn highlighted something regarding "values and goals" and that, alot of times, people EXCHANGE one for the other. Meaning, people rush to make tons of dough, blow it, live more of quality of life, but spend less time with their family to make it, worsen their health, and neglect habits they enjoy. That's NOT a NET gain in lifestyle, values, or goals. You stayed flat. But we often don't view it that way. Not that it's 100% right, but what's the point of more dough if you have LESS family time. You're in worse shape than before. Getting the money is just a LONGER route to what you really want, which is time with your family.

Not all FEEL GOOD decisions are in your best interests. Sexually speaking, you might be turned on by some girl you just met, even as short as 3 weeks, and feel SEX would be ideal. However, you don't know her, her psychological makeup, if she's on protection, if you can trust, if she lies, her intentions, etc, yet you do it anyways. That's not necessarily a GOOD decision. Just because IT FEELS RIGHT. You can take that route, insolongas you're willing to deal with whatever comes of it.

Most times, in regards to Nocturnal's entertainment industry analogy people TOLERATE their jobs, but if asked was it worth the 30 years or so of loyalty, they just BOUGHT THINGS to make up for the LACK of feelings that had at work. They had negative feelings at work, and so the purchase of many consumer products offsets that, because socially speaking, you gain status and some respect and admiration. Perhaps you accumulate a nice nest egg, or a fat salary, or a nice crib, all these things bring EXTERNAL gains, but only TEMPORARY internal validation.

People COULD have lot less and be wealthier and have more time, but they don't realize it, because we're so consumer driven, that, we think we must HAVE to BE.


A-Unit
 

STR8UP

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Lots of people's lives would be SO much better if they were better able to recognize the impact that the things they do TODAY have on their situation TOMORROW.

Take for example:

A girl I know is in the process of trying to buy my business from me. Her credit is improving, but she has had problmes in the past, one of the issues is a chargeoff (where the creditor basically writes off the debt as uncollectable) for a cell phone bill in the amount of 180 some dollars.

The underwriter at the bank where she is getting her business loan from sees this stupid little $180 debt and now they are questioning whether or not to give her the loan. Amazing that such a small issue could have such a big impact on her future, but it's true. I could go on and on about people I know who are clueless as to how much of an impact their present has on their future.

I am all about generating wealth, but most of you have probably heard me say a thousand times that you MUST lead a balanced life if you want to be happy. And going through life unhappy isn't worth all of the money in the world.

Do you have to sacrifice?

Yes.

Can you wait around for the stars to align just right and somehow wealth will magically drop into your lap?

I wouldn't hold my breath.

The whole trick to it is to strive for tomorrow without forgetting about today.

I spent many nights painting and cleaning up garbage on my properties while my friends were drinking and having fun. But guess what? Today, ten years later, I'm the one traveling the world, partying whenever I please. Most of them aren't even as well off as they were right out of high school, plugging away at a job they hate, unable to experience the world around them because they didn't take half a second to think about their future a decade ago.

It's your choice. Do whatever makes you happy, but make sure you aren't completely sacrificing your future for instant gratification today.
 

If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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