Lingering Bitterness in Pursuit of Manhood

[Jules Verne]

Wait, Rollo.

There may have been a misunderstanding.

You and others are right. My disappointment stems from people's failure to live up to what I consider to be standards. It is an egocentric view brewed from resentment.

I am not sure why you stated that I will forgive these girls I looked down upon currently when they enter their 30s and I would be there to provide for them. That is precisely what I am avoiding. I do not know where the basis of your last paragraph came from.

Older members here say this all the time. As you age, it becomes more about filtering out and avoiding bad women in the first place. This is the lesson from all those BPD threads.

You are also a family man. Your threads are very helpful. They emphasize attitudes and principles you have to maintain even going into a long term relationship. You are married because your partner saw and continues to see a man who continues to become better. And the partnership is fruitful because you are a man that could cheat but does not, as you always say. It is one of many reasons why your woman finds you attractive. I am sure you sowed your oats, and your marriage is the culmination of lessons that you learned from those experiences that shape you as a man today.

I strive toward that trajectory. I want to be on a path of continuous improvement so that I am prepared for good prospects in the future. Not a delusional idea of a woman who will accept me for "me." But on the lookout for good "ones" because there is no "one," as you say.

I wanted to start this thread because I thought there might be guys around my age who feel the same bitterness. It is a bad feeling to carry around, and it must be channeled towards something else—something productive. This bitterness, resentment, it treads the fine line between good and bad. I think a lot of sociopaths succumb to the latter and lose control of themselves.

This is learning self-control and getting back into society.

 

[backbreaker]

All of you who said he was wrong should really look at your selves... Just because he holds a higher standard then most, thinks about the future and his family doesn't mean you should put him down.

Just because you all are doing what he described on his post doesn't mean he's wrong. Who do you think you are, I think you all are trying to justify your actions wither it was good or bad.

Eat, drink, and be merry, that's what I'm getting from all of you who responded. Does the media or you have the right to tell someone to lower his standards and destroy his own life. I think all of you resent or envy the OP because he represents a person who hasn't given into the media typical sexualized college life style and only wants the best in life. Best education, best women, and whats best for his family.

He sounds, verbatim, how I sounded 7 years ago.I went 3 years without dating, without even attempting to date beucsae of my first business. From the time I was 18 utnil a week after I was 21.

I don't think he's bitter at all. It's like.. the best way I can explain it.. if you drink alot, you see nothing wrong with drinking. But if you go a few months, a few years without drinking or in general "clubbing" you start to think with a clearer head, you are removed from the situation and you see the silliness of it all. I think that's what he is trying to pertray more than anything else.

The guy, clearly has put his future in front o this present. I don't see anything AFC or chumpish about that in the least bit. In fact that's what intelligent people do.


The majority of people don't want to make that kinda sacrifice and when they get older, make posts damning people who did make that sacrifice because they have this that they never will have or are able to do things, that they never will be able to do.

And quite frankly at the time it sucked. My two best friends were getting tail left and right. A few times I even questioned what I was doing was sane. 20 year old kid locking himself in a room building a business/building computers. While it did pay off, it did in alot more ways than just monetary value. The type of insight that you are able to get by taking a step back and focusing on you, can't be put into words.

It's like the fountainhead, Everyone ****ing hated rowark simply becuase he dared to be different and he made people look in the mirror. People don't like looking in the mirror, becuase they usually don't like what they see.

If this were a horse race, I would bet 6/5 odds this OP is going to be more successful in life than 98% of the posters here. He has his head on straight. The 98% that respond calling him bitter and what not, and cling to the hope that he will somehow be a reverted AFC, do something to make themselves feel better about slacking off. They are really mad, that they are not able ot make the same sacrifices. I see it day in and day out, here and in real life, time and time again. I have found in life that no sign is a surer sign that you are on the right path, then when you manage to piss everyone off.


And either you do or you don't, you are not better or worse for doing what the guy above did, I'm sure, he doesn't think he is any better than anyone here, just like I don't think i'm better than anyone here. But I assure you that people will keep taking pot shots at him to make themselves feel better.

AS my dad told me, there is no going out of business sale on poon tang. it's going to be there. The same women you are chasing now you can chase them 6 years from now, plus the new breed of 18 and 19 year olds, and you can do so more successfully.

Keep your head up OP. It makes me happy to see some like minded people who actually get it.

 

[Warrior74]

He sounds, verbatim, how I sounded 7 years ago.I went 3 years without dating, without even attempting to date beucsae of my first business. From the time I was 18 utnil a week after I was 21.

I don't think he's bitter at all. It's like.. the best way I can explain it.. if you drink alot, you see nothing wrong with drinking. But if you go a few months, a few years without drinking or in general "clubbing" you start to think with a clearer head, you are removed from the situation and you see the silliness of it all. I think that's what he is trying to pertray more than anything else.

The guy, clearly has put his future in front o this present. I don't see anything AFC or chumpish about that in the least bit. In fact that's what intelligent people do.


The majority of people don't want to make that kinda sacrifice and when they get older, make posts damning people who did make that sacrifice because they have this that they never will have or are able to do things, that they never will be able to do.

And quite frankly at the time it sucked. My two best friends were getting tail left and right. A few times I even questioned what I was doing was sane. 20 year old kid locking himself in a room building a business/building computers. While it did pay off, it did in alot more ways than just monetary value. The type of insight that you are able to get by taking a step back and focusing on you, can't be put into words.

It's like the fountainhead, Everyone ****ing hated rowark simply becuase he dared to be different and he made people look in the mirror. People don't like looking in the mirror, becuase they usually don't like what they see.

If this were a horse race, I would bet 6/5 odds this OP is going to be more successful in life than 98% of the posters here. He has his head on straight. The 98% that respond calling him bitter and what not, and cling to the hope that he will somehow be a reverted AFC, do something to make themselves feel better about slacking off. They are really mad, that they are not able ot make the same sacrifices. I see it day in and day out, here and in real life, time and time again. I have found in life that no sign is a surer sign that you are on the right path, then when you manage to piss everyone off.


And either you do or you don't, you are not better or worse for doing what the guy above did, I'm sure, he doesn't think he is any better than anyone here, just like I don't think i'm better than anyone here. But I assure you that people will keep taking pot shots at him to make themselves feel better.

AS my dad told me, there is no going out of business sale on poon tang. it's going to be there. The same women you are chasing now you can chase them 6 years from now, plus the new breed of 18 and 19 year olds, and you can do so more successfully.

Keep your head up OP. It makes me happy to see some like minded people who actually get it.

massive comprehension fail. They only reason he's being called bitter is because he told us he is. Nice of you to try to redefine what he meant, but the way I was raised, you mean what you say and I think this guy meant it. Hell I spent my youth writing and drawing...what I loved to do and now I own a biz doing what I love, but I didn't forsake getting laid and having fun. It wasn't my whole life, I knew some real poon hounds in college who that's all they lived for and I lost more than one girlfriend because I spent more time in the computer lab programming than I did with her and out partying. Life is about balance. Bitterness comes from a lack of balance. BB how many guys have you seen here on this site who were virgins till their 30s or never explored and had fun in college and now regret it. You have to live now. This is the only life you have. And you have to keep an eye on the future as well. But hating other people for living their life while secretly coveting it is called being bitter. And to the OP I say get out and live a little right now, keep your eye on the prize, but don't forget to have some damn fun while you're young.

 

[backbreaker]

I don't miscomprehended what he said, I am saying he is saying he is bitter when it's not bitterness he is describing, his eyes are just being opened. He's seeing people's behavior for what it is and he's able to see it, because he's not caught up in it.

You don't have to explain yourself to me, I like you W74 you know that. my two best friends, parties their ass off while i worked, i love them dudes to death no less. I made my decision just like they made there. I lived vicariously through them for 3 years.

My whole thing is though, when the fruits of my labor start to pay off, don't hate me for it.


he said this

My disappointment stems from people's failure to live up to what I consider to be standards. It is an egocentric view brewed from resentment.

That is not bitterness. I dont' expect, everyone to think like I do but, when you are in the position he is in, when you are just able to sit back and observe, you notice how many people are wiling to sacrifice tomorrow for today, how much of an instant gratification society we live in, it's sickening to an extent. No one wants to work for anything, no one wants to put work in for **** anymore, if i can't get it today **** it.


I hav stated it before, I have a pretty bad ass to do list. every day I push myself, even to this day. I'm always trying to push myself. I push myself becuase i have goals and because if I want something out of a woman I must first, demand it out of myself first. Everyone wants to demand a hot, yet smart witty woman who is not seling cel phones for a living and has a real job, or at least could have a real job, while they are all out clubbing, dont' you know that girl is doin exactly what the oP is doing now lol? smart people, really really smart people don't Bs through college. there is a time ot play. Even in college. But college is not about the experience, it's about getting that paper. which is what he is doing.

But I look at my mom when i was in town, sat around for 2 ****ing weeks, no work, browsing online for her new car, sleeping and then *****ing becuase her income is down almost half and blaming it on everyone but her not wanting to ****ing work. I don't understand how people can do that. I dont' understand how people can put off work to play when there is work to be done, and there is always work to be done until you are on the path to being the person you are destined to be. I'm not bitter torwards my mom, but I do shake my head at her and her behavior. That's what he is describing.

I knew, 5 years ago, exactly how my oneitis story was going to end (becuase of this site). I was never bitter.But that doesn't mean I think it's pathetic behavior to waste your life ****ing around and not taking school seriously.

And to the OP I say get out and live a little right now, keep your eye on the prize, but don't forget to have some damn fun while you're young.

probably the biggest misconception on earth imho. lol, the fun I have now, is like, 100x the fun I could at my best have when I was 21. The last month I have been in 4 states, going to the sugar bowl tomorrow.

Work now, play later, or play now, pay later. it's your choice. You work hard, so you CAN play later.

 

[Warrior74]

Really? Biggest misconception on earth? The guys who come here crying about it don't see it that way. They wished someone would have told them the truth way back then. A balanced life is a good life. Not saying you shouldnt have ambitions and dreams, I took a year off from dating to focus on my business this past year, Did I still find a few occasions to have fun? Yes, yes I did. Why? Because you need a release, you can't be balls to the wall 24 seven and not end up with some damage. You know exactly what I mean BB. And anyway, your fun and this man's fun may be two different things...he might be needing to have his right now and not even know it. His fun might not be doing what you do, or what he sees other people doing, but he needs to have it.

An egocentric view brewed from resentment.

Resentment

–noun
the feeling of displeasure or indignation at some act, remark, person, etc., regarded as causing injury or insult.

—Synonyms
dudgeon, pique, irritation, envy, jealousy.


yah. That's positive behavior.

 

[Igetit!]

I'm pretty much with Rollo and Warrior74,but a couple of things from BB said ring true as well.

A few things from the OP's post stood out to me. He said.....

I strive to become a better man everyday. I have a goal in life in terms of work. Financial independence is crucial. I make sure no muscle on my body is wasted. I work on being a master of social affairs. In short, I constantly work on any weakness I have.

The process is enlightening, but it comes with a harsh view of what is around me.

And this....

I see people going in and out of relationships.

And this...

In my eyes, it is the hardest thing to do. I am still not certain of who I am as a person, and I do not wish to date a girl or get into a relationship when I am incomplete.

And this....

I see girls my age in college wasting away their youth with endless parties and hook-ups, bloating their stomachs with each sip of beer bong.

TWO TIMES,you mentioned something in your thread about being bitter. Well normally,when someone becomes bitter,it's as a result of some wrong or injustice done to them,or being repeatedly emotionally hurt or getting rejected over and over again.




Not one time did you ever mention anything about somebody hurting or injuring you in some way. All of your so-called "bitterness" was the result of some "view" ,something you "saw",or some observation you made in the lives of OTHER PEOPLE.



You talked about girls your age wasting their youth on endless parties and hookups,and how you can't justify "leading on a girl I am barely interested in as a person just for a quick lay when I have no intention of developing a genuine relationship with her" like other guys do.



All of your bitterness and resentment seems to be related to the way OTHER PEOPLE live their lives.




So my question to you is this: What do you care? Why are you so concerned with how all of these other people (who you don't even know) are living their lives? What's it to you?




I don't know how many people are at your college,but let's say around 20,000. Take you out,and that makes 19,999. That's 19,999 different minds,thoughts,beliefs and ideas,backgrounds and upbringings. So what,you expect all 19,000 of those men and women to follow you,to lives their lives as YOU DEEM fit? And if they don't,you get upset or bitter?

Who do you think you are?


You want to study and prepare for your future. Others want to go out and get drunk. While I do agree that preparing for your future is a better decision out of the two,it's not YOUR DECISION TO MAKE for the other 19,000 students there.



Each person is responsible for their OWN lives. It's THEIR RIGHT to make their own decision....EVEN IF those decisions are destructive. If some chick wants to drink and party her body into oblivion,what do you plan to do about it? You plan on following her around 24 hours a day for the rest of her life making sure she doesn't drink?



And that's just one girl. There are probably hundreds,if not thousands of girls at your school doing the same thing. You plan on running around trying to save all them too?



Take care of YOU man. If all this bitterness you have is the result of WHAT YOU SEE in the lives of other people,then maybe you need to STOP LOOKING AT and WORRYING ABOUT other people's lives,and just take care of your own.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I am not sure why you stated that I will forgive these girls I looked down upon currently when they enter their 30s and I would be there to provide for them. That is precisely what I am avoiding. I do not know where the basis of your last paragraph came from.

I was just holding up your current direction in life as an example of form. Every Beta AFC I know has followed this script and I think it's important for you and others to identify that this is a pattern followed by a lot of chumps. That may not be you in the end, but it is the script.

Go read Schedules of Mating. The pattern I'm seeing is one of a typical AFC frustrated by his inability to connect with women he's attracted to. So in response, and as an ego preservation mechanic, he disqualifies these women based on any number ideals he's determined that they don't measure up to. From a personal standpoint this may be an impetus to drive a guy on to further prosperity and success, but the problem is that his success, his sense of morality, his self-ascribed "virtue", etc. is still rooted in his desire to get with the women who are inaccessible to him.

This script then continues when he's achieved even a minor degree of status and affluence due to what he thinks is his virtuous sense of responsibility and personal strengths - doing the nobel and right thing to be the "not-like-other-guys" and the (at least stated) ideal women have always told him they want in a guy, no matter how contrary their behaviors may betray that. It's at this time those 'party girls' in their early 20's become the "damsels in distress" in their late 20's and early 30's. They're the single mommies raising the Alpha Bad Boy's children, the aging spinsters, the girls who put on 30 lbs. since 22 y.o. and want to be loved "for who they are" now, and the list goes on and on, but they essentially amount to women becoming aware of hitting the impending Wall. They need to cash out their chips before the party ends and the sexual market dries up for their long term provisioning prospects.

This is where the self-righteous AFC enters. He has means, maybe a bit of status, never had a GF, lacks any significant relationship or sexual experience, and is proud in spite of it because he believes his success was earned by his stoic perseverance (really deprivation). Suddenly he's a catch for the women he couldn't connect with just 7 or 8 years ago. He's already primed for her exploitation because he's been so deprived. So when she approaches him with just a marginal degree of attraction it's like mana from heaven, a fresh drink of water in a long desert. He believes his patience and perseverance is finally paying off; and perhaps it is, but not in the way his idealistic mind perceives it, he is now the necessitous woman's mark.

His new GF is now a "quality woman" to him. It doesn't matter that she sired a couple of bastard Alpha's children, that's all behind her now. Her past is forgiven, it really has to be since any girl acknowledging his "virtue" enough to want to be intimate with him MUST be quality, right? And isn't forgiveness of past sins a characteristic of a virtuous person of integrity? She's a damsel in distress, just like in the movies where the nobel knight saves her from her awful predicaments. Wouldn't he be a Man of superior integrity if he sacrificed his plans to aid her in raising children not his own? How nobel! How inspiring! Surely she'll appreciate him with loyalty, unconditional love and sexual favors above and beyond any she'd ever had before with the Alpha studs she banged in Cancun on spring break those many years ago.

 

[Forty0ztoFreedom]

Rollo you describe a blind spot that is terrifying to me. Going through all of this and then just shutting it all down so the AFC Dream can still "come true" in the 4th quarter by the first girl who plays the part. Ugghhh.

To be honest I feel like I am still susceptible to that. Its infuriating.

 

[Iceberg]

Rollo you describe a blind spot that is terrifying to me. Going through all of this and then just shutting it all down so the AFC Dream can still "come true" in the 4th quarter by the first girl who plays the part. Ugghhh.

To be honest I feel like I am still susceptible to that. Its infuriating.

You're only susceptible to it if you're trying to convince yourself that sexually and socially depriving yourself is a form of dignity and righteousness. I believe that to be the point of Rollo's post - that some men go through life fooling themselves, taking their fear of rejection and flipping it to make it seem as if THEY have rejected those who are rejecting them.

It's not that you can't settle down with a 30 year old woman. Or have to look down on all potential prospects because they used to party a lot in college. (Frankly, the idea of settling down with some boring church mouse of a woman bores the hell of out me.)

It's just that you have to be honest with yourself about where you stand in the world and what you're doing. Which takes us back to the OP's post about looking down on the college party lifestyle, and claiming that he rejects this world because of his own righteousness....where in reality it's far more likely that the college party lifestyle has rejected him, resulting in his bitterness.

The fact that you are aware of what's happening around you makes me believe that you're not susceptible to this.

 

[Jules Verne]

If any man falls for what Rollo stated, then it really is his fault. His poor judgment is a reflection of who he is. The blame is on him.

The consensus is that moderation is key. Don't worry about things that do not concern you.

Nevertheless, I notice a difference in perspective. I am assuming most members that replied are American. As someone who grew up in different countries, I feel that this whole party lifestyle is the standard mode of fun that many Americans embrace. Because it is the most dominant form of lifestyle presented to people my age, they see it as normal.

I am not saying that this is only present in America. It is the same for England. It overlaps with the yob culture, but that is another story.

 

[Midnight_Oil]

You should go out and meet people. Even if you hate them. Or maybe you'll find some like minded people. Never again will you have so many people to interact with. Once you get out of college, it's 100x harder.

I understand why you hate the "party" scene. The music is loud and the drinks are expensive. How the hell you are suppose to converse with anyone? However, there are bars without loud music and nobody says you have to drink 2 pitchers to have a good time.