Life Lesson Learned

[Buddha_Mind]

Hmm..well, what to say. My 8-month LTR just recently ended. I suppose I definitely invested way too much stock in this one. I'm not sure why, amidst the moment, it seems so easy to do -- to give in to what one perceives to be as, "love" and whatever emotion it is that we experience. But then the trail goes on, you discover more and more about who this person is; and sometimes you find complete clashings and faults.

I definitely made some mistakes with this one. Thank god no children from this end. I have to start fresh -- and I made some major changes for this relationship (and what a terrible mistake that is). In the end I definitely feel demasculated (she wanted to break up with me), beta-tized, and immature. I definitely have a lot to work on as a human being. But I swear to you this woman works to walk on people -- and she has such an immense residue of past emotional experiences, that it is hard to deal with.

1. Don't date a stripper or past-stripper...xxxxx number of sexual experiences (I feel, at least, presently) is not healthy for a normal sexual relationship. She had "sex issues" and said she even felt she needed to see a therapist.

2. Lacking a father figure definitely is not good, and was present in my case. Which may have led her to stripping. Psychological issues.

3. Too much interaction [my doing] -- too much neediness. I fell into this and I do not know how -- I have been reading this stuff for years now, and I suppose I snap in and out of betaness. I don't even know how it sneaks up on me until it's too late. I can be romantically minded and easily fall into a loving sort of mindset. I think particularly here, I've been in a vulnerable place financially trying to get a personal business going, and this has led in many ways, to a great personal inner-struggle (which manifests outwardly onto my engaged relationships).

I know that the end of this relationship is a major conflicting of both of our faults along with what was eventually reduced into habitual arguing. It sucks man [men]. It really sucks. But ; A fresh start begins and life lessons learned and now I have new options on my table. I do not have any shared assets/children, etc, and I can now be more mobile to do what I want to do.

Perhaps the real key to being good with women, from the lessons I can take from this looking objectively at my own errors and faults (and there were many), is that you can never need a woman. You can never really need anyone. Other than yourself. And you should be number one, and taken care of as number one, and sacrificing any part of you for a relationship can lead to a steady disrespect of the female and loss of interest...and suddenly, your out to sea...

On to bigger and better things.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

This makes me feel better:

You Need a Boyfriend
From the makers of the Snuggie, Oxyclean, ShamWow and countless other over priced items comes... The Boyfriend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ8RyGxrxVM

 

[pdx1138]

I've never known anyone who did well with a stripper in a relationship.

my best friend recently had a really bad experience with one.


Buddha, good for you on realizing what you need to do.
you're right!

 

[Buddha_Mind]

She had been a stripper for 5+ years...idk, this can effect things..

 

[pipe007]

wow well, no matter how good you get at being the man.
it must be FREAKING hard to maintain control and frame long term with a striper, they have the game down packed.

well dont date strippers again lol.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I'm not sure she had the game down pact, so to say, because she broke a lot of rules here (like going deep into past relationships..) above many more. I don't know, she is just a human being, but man I think her 5+ year career in that world definitely left her with some issues. She even told me a lot that stripping was not psychologically healthy, and that it did make intimacy a hard thing for her. I think it just scrambled everything in her up, idk.

All I know is I definitely still feel hurt and angry. This will transpire and heal. Seems I have to learn things first hand the hard way. Hours of reading on SoSuave (to which there were many direct references to the mistakes I was making and not seeing) could not account for this direct experience.

Just thank god I don't have any children or shared assets with her..thank god.

 

[wait_out]

You just have to be careful with things like idealism and hope. It's a shame to live without them but they will steer you wrong more often than not.

It's just a life lesson BM. It's a hard one but try not to dwell on it too much if you'd like to move on at some point. You are both just 2 other people in a world of 6 billion. Take care of yourself first... that has to be the bottom line.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Wait_out -- you're right man, you're right.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I think the hardest part is, I definitely, in some ways made an ass of myself in our breakup. I was pretty worked up and angry. I am not sure how a person can stay detached when the other person throws in the towel -- I know pssing and moaning is not the DJ way. I have much, much to learn.

 

[thomz_amadeus]

Hey Buddha,

I'm in the exact same situation. I could have written your post.

Carry on soldier. After the rain comes the sunshine.

Be a man, a real one, and forgive her all. But move on and never look back.

You need to fail in order to learn. Take it easy. Happy moments vanish. Only scars will make the man.

 

[Die Hard]

Thanks for sharing, Buddha. I like these kind of ''field reports'' and the honesty of your reflections.

Too bad you didn't succeed in your previous plans to reassert yourself and improve this relationship, I remember you posting about it a few months ago. But whatever went wrong in this relationship, you'll probably work around it in the next one!

 

[Zarky]

wow haha, I'd go through some emotional turmoil to date a stripper. I mean you can't take 'em too seriously (as if you could take any woman seriously) but I'd wade into whatever ball of psychoses the average stripper has to bone down on her for a few months.

Don't get an STD, don't get her knocked up, and everything else will heal after awhile.

PLUS now you can tell other chicks you dated a stripper. Instant cred.

 

[zekko]

Perhaps the real key to being good with women, from the lessons I can take from this looking objectively at my own errors and faults (and there were many), is that you can never need a woman. You can never really need anyone. Other than yourself. And you should be number one, and taken care of as number one, and sacrificing any part of you for a relationship can lead to a steady disrespect of the female and loss of interest...and suddenly, your out to sea...

Sounds like you came to a good conclusion, I must agree. As a man especially, you have to take care of yourself and your interests first. Because for sure, no one else is going to do it for you.
And because you can't take care of anyone else if you're not on solid ground yourself.

I've always maintained you can learn just as much, or more, from an LTR than spinning plates. So I wouldn't consider it wasted time.

I would never date a stripper though. I wouldn't make it past that particular red flag. I don't understand the allure of strippers for some guys, honestly. They have the same parts other women do.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I appreciate the responses here, this has all helped my mind for certain.

I definitely made some mistakes.

I know she did too. And I know, her issues are up to her to deal with. But I can't ever escape this life of mine -- so I better make the d.amned most of it and make myself the very best person I can be.

 

[Cozmo]

I also have had relationships with strippers.

I also have had relationships with strippers.
I give them money, they dance for me. If your relationship with a stripper goes beyond that then good luck to ya...

 

[Buddha_Mind]

She was *not currently* a stripper when I went out with her. She had been out of the business for over a year. But she HAD BEEN a stripper for ~5+ years.

IDK guys, I really fell for this one, she told me a lot of lovey-dovey stuff, but she was very controlling and OCD in her own ways. Coupled by her relationship history and issues with sex and being taken advantage of, she *was not always easy to get along with*.

1. Amidst a casual night encounter if I was 5-10 minutes late it would turn into an entire evening argument.

2. We both had jealousy issues at times, but this partially because I know she was flirting with other men a great deal and she truly enjoys it. I was in the WRONG for having had a female roommate when I did outdoor education jobs, of whom I avoided anyways, and of whom hit on me once until I told her to BACK OFF. I had told my GF that this had occurred, and she was furious [even at the fact that I told her to back off]. She said she'd rather be blind to other girls hitting on me, etc, which I thought was strange because by bringing it into the open and being honest with her I thought this was good for our communication and we could laugh about it. It made her very defensive. This dynamic of minor jealousy issues was present in our entire relationship. One of the cooks whom she worked with [latino dude] said her boyfriend, "wasn't allowed to be in here", and that he, "wanted to marry her"...I was very upset when I heard these comments and she could not understand why. I wanted to see her tell the dude to back off -- but instead she enjoyed the attention.

3. I've had some bad past experiences with women and this for sure effected my attitude at times. I had trouble "fully trusting" her. Shortly after going out with her, a very close friend of mine lost his wife because she cheated on him with her best friend. This is a couple I NEVER WOULD HAVE EXPECTED this to happen [together 8+ years] -- and I was there at their house when the whole thing was revealed. This definitely mentally ****ed with my mind and definitely spun distrust into all women for awhile, including my girlfriend.

4. She would knit-pick me for minor faults and come up with little nicknames she thought were cute, that in my mind, felt entirely degrading and attempts to somehow demasculate me, such as, "Poop", "Butt-face", "Butt-breath", etc. This did frustrate me too, I didn't give her stupid-ass nicknames, and considering this was coming from a time with less and less sex and instead more and more criticism, how am I suppose to laugh and think it's funny?

5. I could not be correct and was always wrong. Out of every disagreement and argument we had, I was *never* correct. Even times when she SHOUTED on the phone so loud I had to pull the receiver from my ear, she was still not sorry, *I* pushed her to do it, and again, was wrong.

6. Just three weeks ago she told me she "might be pregnant", which thank god she was not, but told me how I would "be there for her" and be a "great father" and all of this stuff. Crazy!

7. We talked about our past relationships [huge mistake] which she believes is "normal" and "should be able to do". As much as I tried telling her that I think *MOST PEOPLE* would be uncomfortable hearing long details of past relationships and names and photos [I saw many photos even of her ex-husband] she disagreed. And in the end she felt ENTIRELY uncomfortable based on what I told her, and HELD IT OVER me in our breakup.

8. She was divorced from a man in the military she once told me she had never loved, had married for living reasons and financial reasons, and was "entirely over it", although it has been over a year since the divorce, the papers were not signed until about a month ago. It was just 5 days ago that she told me she, "still was not over it, thought she was, but was not" and then the following day was the breakup.

9. I didn't give her ENOUGH SPACE, I thought some of the tenants on this board did not work -- I doubted them -- thought we had a strong enough relationship where I could just be me. WHOOPS. This annoyed her and distanced her from me.

10. Basically, I was an alpha when I met her, in my own ways, I didn't care about women, I was living my own life the way I wanted. I fell in love with her, carried a long distance relationship with her, and decided to return back to this area to be with her because I really wanted to, and because I felt from all of her encouragement and words that she wanted that too. Upon arriving here it was like night and day and it took us a few weeks to feel comfortable again sexually, and even all of that was a lowered drive. I think coming back was the first step that through a wrench in her concern. And all of this led to my slow and steady withdrawl in a sappy available beta-male.

But I definitely think some of the things we dealt with, like arguing back and forth, and we could both become very defensive, likely were the same long distance. If I had never left and returned, we likely would have reached a termination point anyways. I like to smoke herb and don't drink much, she is the opposite and a bar-tender (and has a strong slanted view against weed, as much as I would express how f*cked up her drinks got people). Sometimes I even think if she would blaze once in her life it would lighten her up a bit and relax her. I've never seen someone so intense as to controlling what is occurring around them -- nor anyone so rigid with her day. I mean, she has her day so rigidly planned she knows the same morning she wakes up when she is falling ASLEEP [it's planned!].

I made the mistake of caring way too much about it, because it was my first real LTR in a long time -- and I fell in love with her. We both had so many interests, art, nature, and did so much together that I believed were GOOD times. We did argue, but I felt we both had issues with anger and jealousy and could learn to better temper ourselves and improve our relationship. I wanted to forgive her for some of the terrible things she would say and find a way to be at peace and move forwards. She did not want to forgive or forget anything. In fact, she had a COMPLETE list in her head of EVERY ARGUMENT we ever had -- and would comb back over this list at the drop of a pin to highlight areas of my weakness or my fault. Almost just to get me to say SORRY, to which I would, to which weakened my frame further. She rarely apologized if any for some TERRIBLE things she would do.

So IDK guys, **** this you know. I 100% still miss her. I am on no contact after the breakup. By which she left me and I threw some of her **** in the trash. Really she distanced herself enough emotionally to be in a safe place to get rid of me, I was pissed at being left behind at her giving up and at her holding all the negatives so far above the positives -- I told her to get her **** and get out, and threw some of it in the trash. Immature I know, but was a last rebellion of leaving this with some dignity of not feeling entirely walked over and left crushed.

I'm too much of a nice guy, too understanding and caring. I have my spikes and defenses too, but I definitely got walked on and probably should have left this girl a long time ago. There are so many red-flags, like past-stripper, no father-figure, divorce, so much -- BUT BUT BUT -- there is this part of me that felt like I saw a much deeper version of her and her heart and that she really was a good person, and she was so sexy and family-oriented, I thought that someday she would make a good mother.

Now I'm stuck with a starting business in the same area that she lives [started there because of my relationship and desire to be near her] and living in a small community not far away by myself. I want to get back out to Seattle and out of the midwest. But it is going to take some time to save money and find a new job. None of my family is supportive of this decision. I just don't give a sh*t anymore -- I should have known better, feel stupid for my mistakes, and do miss her.

I need to remove my medicated view of her, because she IS NOT thinking highly of me right now, nor is she SUFFERING in the ways that I am. This is what I get for ignoring some basic tenants of this place.

I hope to enter a new relationship when I can to continue learning about relationships and how I myself act. I am realizing you can read theoretical info until you are overloaded -- but the REAL LEARNING comes by doing and ENTERING INTO RELATIONSHIPS and that is what I have to now make my quest. To self improve, get back to the mountains, get my body in better shape after a month of hardly exercising pushing a growing business, and get myself a new and fresh start.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

She would even say things like she is "damaged goods" and all sorts of stuff like this -- to which I would feel like it wasn't fair, some of what she had been through you know. It was the lack of having any positive male role models in life that led her to stripping, it was the lack of this same thing that was her causation for many destructive relationships with men.

I tried so damned hard to be patient with her piss fits, to push through the sh.it tests, but after awhile I myself just got lost in all of the drama. My patience wore thin in these last weeks -- where we were constantly arguing, without ever finding a resolution, because she'd have to run off to school or some engagement and I wouldn't see her again until the next day. It was as though a single argument tethered out into days of arguing, because there was no closure or resolution -- and it just progressively got nastier and nastier until we both said things that really truly offended the other person. There was little if any way to go backwards into loving feelings for her. And I know that she even told me she never cared for me the same ways I cared about her. So another mistake 1. expressing care/love [WHOOPS], 2. being with someone who outright says they don't care about you in the same ways.

The same woman who got angry with me for being 10 minutes late to her house after work for just spending time together, sent me a text message one morning at 7am saying she was going to be "out of service". I didn't hear from her for 2 days. That was a big deal to me -- as there was no consideration as to how leaving someone out of contact for 2 days with no real understandings is not healthy on a relationship. Clearly in retrospect, she was taking space from me, and this was not understood. This itself was a bad sign to its own. But little things like that -- why is it not okay for me to be 10 minutes late, but it's okay for you to disappear for 2 days no contact?

But how could she be wrong?

I just don't understand how any longterm relationship is not going to weather some disagreements. I mean for fvcksake I look at my parents marriage of 25+ years and there has been some mean words exchanged. She's called him an *******, and he's made fun of her at times -- but somehow they get over it, keep moving, and work to be happy together. It just seems like some people are unable to move past anything or use it gain deeper understandings of a person. They instead dwell on the negative experiences and highlight them and place them above the positive ones. I definitely think there is something to taking the good with the bad, and recognizing in a relationship the bad aspects of a person just as much as the good, but I think genuinely for a LTR to work out, there has be some "letting go" of what can be trifling stupidity because two lives are so deeply intertwined.

It is not easy to try and plan a life with someone. What we want changes all of the time. I am learning now better to plan MY LIFE how I want it, and if she fits in, then so be it. I genuinely wanted this to work, I genuinely wanted to be a better person, but it got the best of me -- and my patience wore thin towards the end and I said some sh.it I shouldn't have. But for godssake a person can only take so much verbal BS -- these are all signs and symptoms it wasn't right anyways. I should have known better.

 

[mrRuckus]

I think the hardest part is, I definitely, in some ways made an ass of myself in our breakup. I was pretty worked up and angry. I am not sure how a person can stay detached when the other person throws in the towel -- I know pssing and moaning is not the DJ way. I have much, much to learn.

My mindset tends to be that you need to remind yourself that most everything bad that happens is short term. Just think of how much stuff has happened in your life that you were pissed off about and all worked up about that today you look back and see as pointless and don't care at all about. Remind yourself that a few weeks or months from now you won't care, so why should you be worked up right now? It's very, very temporary.

And boy does this attitude piss people off because they want you to be mad and worked up just like they are.

You: "Oh you don't think this is working out? Alright! Talk to you later then!" *click* *vanish*
Her: WTF? *panic*

 

[Buddha_Mind]

^^Yes!^^

I had been pushed to the limit and said you know what, then fvck you, and threw her sh.it in the trash.

NOT A DJ RESPONSE.

I was reacting from a place of fear and anger, anguish as well.

I should have let her grab her stuff and leave, and sat down to do work as she was walking out the door.

I wouldn't be surprised if I had reacted this way it would have done a 180 in her mindset. She *may* have come back on her own accord. What I did surely drove her away for good. But either way -- if she is at a point of walking out, what does getting angry really do anyways? And is she really the type of woman who would be there for you if life gets hard?

I truly feel if she had just been a bit more patient, we could have moved past the problems we were facing.

IDK, maybe that is a hopeful thing my mind wants to cling to.

 

[zekko]

Buddha, your two posts describing her and the relationship are practically one giant red flag. All the arguing, nitpicking, and degrading. Is that what you want to live with the rest of your life? Because it isn't going to get any better. Who needs all the drama? After eight years, I could count on one hand all the arguments I've had with my girlfriend.

By the way, being a bartender may even be worse than being a stripper. Both are magnets for drunken male attention. Bartender is a perfect job for an AW, and you note she was a big flirt. Bartender doesn't have the stigma being a stripper does though, so she gets to pretend to be the "good girl" while courting attention.