Life after death.
- Thread starter mroriginal2
- Start date
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
You wouldn't believe me if I told you. Lets just say I discovered it in a dream. I'm also not the only person I've talked to who believed it. Beliefs don't have to come from a religion. Infact I believe God doesn't want us to have religions, after seeing the harm they've caused us.
Beliefs don't have to be rational. If I had quantifiable evidence, I'd post it. Obviously I don't.
I'm not sure if that answers your question though. I don't really understand your question.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
lol ok, my spirit guide (more commonly known as a guardian angel, but he's not really an angel) told me when I was 16 during a dream, among other things.
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
I think the Christian concepts of "heaven" and "hell" are derived from extrapolations the types of near-death experiences people have.
And I think those are dream-like artifacts of one's biochemical state near death.
The most reasonable working model I can think of is reincarnation with some sort of memory of past lessons. No "karmic equalization," or any sort of thing like that, more chaotic in terms of fate. This is at least consistent with evolutionary progress.
*********
If you don't think the human race has evolved, consider that just 100 years ago lynchings were considered perfectly acceptable by a large % of the US population, even in the north. I can cite many more examples, but by-and-large, we've come a long, long way...
And I think those are dream-like artifacts of one's biochemical state near death.
The most reasonable working model I can think of is reincarnation with some sort of memory of past lessons. No "karmic equalization," or any sort of thing like that, more chaotic in terms of fate. This is at least consistent with evolutionary progress.
*********
If you don't think the human race has evolved, consider that just 100 years ago lynchings were considered perfectly acceptable by a large % of the US population, even in the north. I can cite many more examples, but by-and-large, we've come a long, long way...
Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
So then what makes your idea more believable than if I were to tell you something like, "when we die, we become planets and we grow a civilization to our liking."
The only way to differentiate between a valid belief system and an invalid one is by using logic and rationalization.
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
Faith is like love; maybe it is love. Neither have anything to do with logic and reason.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
Myown experiences, and hearing that other people who I've never met have identical beliefs, despite these beliefs being so different than what religions teach us, is myown rationalization I suppose.
I don't expect you to hold the same beliefs at me. All I ask is that if you find yourself in the astral when you die, ignore the souls that ask you to come with them and instead ask God to take you to heaven. Many souls don't do this
I do want to die. I might prefer to be living right now and having a good time but I would hate to “live forever.” If you think about it, nobody should really want to live forever. Think about what would happen if you were granted eternal youth and life, whilst everyone else rotted and died. Initially, it would be great fun it would gradually turn towards an eternal “hell.” All your friends would rot and die, and whilst you could make more friends, they too would eventually parish. “Life is not one thing after another. Life is one damn thing after another,” and, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes”—Mark Twain. Even if everyone “lived forever,” same thing: same shyt, different day.
Same essence as reincarnation. Whilst there would be continuous birth, there would be continuous death. Please, just once is fine.
Life is a wonderful experience but there needs to be an eventual The End. I look forward to death, but in the meantime I look forward to good times in life.
There was a moment last year when I had genuine reasons to reasonably believe I was at my last moments and passing out to die. I didn’t fear it. Whilst there are incomplete things in my life which I would like completed, life doesn’t owe you anything, the Earth was here first! Life doesn’t promise you anything. So when I thought I was at my last breathing moments, I was like, hey, if it’s my time to die then bring it on.
There is no credible reason to think there is a soul. There is no logical mandate for there to be a soul. There was a mathematical mandate for black holes to exist, before black holes were empirically demonstrated, and there is a mathematical mandate for String Theory to be right, before String Theory has been empirically demonstrated, but there is no logical mandate for there to be a soul. There is no evidence and no concrete reason to believe otherwise. There may be an electromagnetic wave thingy which is present in all living beings, but that is all it is, a clump of energy. But self-awareness? Pardon me for not believing in whimisical wishful thinking.
No.
When you die, you will not ‘know’ it. Before death, you might feel pain; before death, you might be aware you are about to die; but when upon death you will lose conciousness, your heart will cease to pump, your brain will cease to function. You will excrete your bodily fluids by pissing in your pants, livor mortis will set in as your blood settles, your muscles will become rigid as rigor mortis sets in, your skin will shrink as it dehydrates, your skin will turn black, you will dissolve into a glob of nothing and perish. But once you lose conciousness you won’t ‘know’ you’re dead. What body part of yours will be alive to think?
If I’m going to hell, well then I better slap that ass harder, bang harder, talk dirtier, have even more sex outside the confines of marriage, with even more chicks who—too—are going straight to Lucifer, and turn up the heat on my scorching burning trip down to the center of hell.
Answer, no.
“No one knows,” eh? Only for those who are whimsically-inclined.
Yes, you are crazy. Maybe you have schizophrenia or suffer from confabulation, I don’t know, but either way, you are being delusional.
Try explaining what you mean when you say that without using logic.
Somewhere along the line, you MUST have had a reason for believing in faith. That reason is logic at work. If, on the other hand, there is no reason, then what are you doing living with an arbitrary principle?
Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Re:
Mere tricks and tomfoolery. I wouldn't begrudge anyone's belief system, but trying to thrust it through the analytical/logical ringer is asking for trouble.
The rational/analytic deals in the physical, what we can abley comprehend here and now. Of course, each person has varying degrees of rational/logical ability, so how can we measure this up?
Objectively, it might not jive for certain people. I've countered many 'tech' guys who need logical proof for the existence of heaven/hell, demons/angels, a higher being, us being spiritual, and anything else NOT scientific. I can't provide that. Nobody can. Anytime SOMEONE has what seems to be near locked proof, it's blown apart as hallucination, creations of the mind, delusions, ghosts, etc.
Parts of the scientific community drown out paranormal work, because it would seemingly RUPTURE what they study. The scientific community tends to be very diametrically opposed to that of spirit/etheric/ghost/after life work, for whatever reason you see fit to attach.
There's book like "A course in miracles" which is purportedly written by 2 college professors/phd's, who had a very strained relationship as co-workers and life ingeneral and had asked a "higher power" for help. What came was a thousand page manifest supposedly spoken by Jesus or the Holy Spirit via the mind. It's one of the most widely read books, is very straightforward, and is meant to be WHAT Jesus was actually saying as the purveyor of God's message.
Another book, "the disappearance of the universe" purports that Gary Renard had a long-lived relationship with 2 "ascended" masters for 9 years up in Maine. They appeared one day to him as out of thin air, and continually visited imparting their wisdom on him. However, ANYBODY could write them off as koos, nonbelievers, charlatans, and even question that all this was the work of the devil.
Christians might say that, as they'd believe anything NOT Jesus or God is the devil. Yet in disappearance of the universe, the crux of the relationship is that THIS whole experience we know IS NOT life. We, in fact, SPLIT from God, so we could experience ourselves, and that yes, we are SEPARATE EGOS, trying to live out an abnormal existence. The source of our pain is because we stress this fakeness around us so much, when at the very CORE of life, we're ALL the same materials, and possibly the same spirit connection.
Why or How?
A few reasons.
God is God because God is perfect.
If God is perfect WHY would he make earth to be like this.
If EVERYTHING is God, then we are with God. God's perfection assumes we've never LEFT God, because God is everywhere. Such particles cannot coexist in the same SPACE/TIME point, so we are in fact, there with God now, only having a DEEP mental dream/sleep acted out by the ego we chose. Once you ditch the extreme connection to that fake identity, all the crap goes with it.
There's more to it, but I've read far and wide enough to get a deep breadth of knowledge on it.
But then I come full circle, so what?
Your ego, yourself, might not LIKE what I say, because it's not UPLIFTING your current beliefs. Normally, people FILTER things through their current belief system, and buy or sell what they're told based on how it effects their reality.
So the whole debate on AFTER life is mute, because one's view of AFTER life, essentially dictates HOW THEY'D live.
-If people felt we're all ONE; not separate countries, or races, or sexes, or sizes, shapes, or colors, would we act distant, indifferent, biased, prejudiced, bigoted, or careless?
-If people feel there's only LIGHT outs, then the prevailing attitude is, GET WHAT I CAN NOW.
-If people feel that, doing good heightens one's energy level, thereby ascending you several planes of energy to what is known as HEAVEN, and by doing wrong/evil, you diminish your energy level, and go to what's know as HELL, people would be mroe conscious of their decisions NOW.
To me pain of ANY kind, originates with the PERSON, and their grasp of reality. Take away humanity, and the earth REMAINS the same. In fact, it improves, because we are not WRECKING mother earth. Not polluting it. However, we are here. The only heaven or hell exists in the meanings man makes up in his mind. What he attaches to what he sees. What he/she expects. It's our connection to society that brings that about.
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To me, there is a mandate to bring down such belief systems so what we are all HERE AND NOW. TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET. SELF CENTERED. It's fine to be self-conscious, and watch our for oneself, but to impinge your existence on other's is unworthy of life.
Humans will ALWAYS try to discover what our purpose is. What reality is. What we're here for. HOW we got here. That's our sole journey. More importantly, it's about discovering YOU. Figuring you out.
It would seem MORE probable, that every person is an evolved soul (yet doesn't know it), and the rationale basis for one's ability NOW, is having lived many previous lives. Maybe they're smarter or prettier or more adept or athletic. All of that is encoded into their spirit UNTIL they've achieved enlightenment and awareness and BAM, they're outta here.
Take what you like, it's your life, and your soul if you believe. I gain nothing by educating another person or believing the same thing. I do live to explore such things because I find it fascinating.
-------------------------------------------
The same leap in mental thinking it took to cross the Atlantic eons ago, and the same leap it took in thinking to go to the moon, or place the Sun at the center of the universe is what it will take CURRENT generations to KNOW something different than what we can ONLY detect with the 5 senses filtered through a biased, animalistic, and emotional mind.
A-Unit
Mere tricks and tomfoolery. I wouldn't begrudge anyone's belief system, but trying to thrust it through the analytical/logical ringer is asking for trouble.
The rational/analytic deals in the physical, what we can abley comprehend here and now. Of course, each person has varying degrees of rational/logical ability, so how can we measure this up?
Objectively, it might not jive for certain people. I've countered many 'tech' guys who need logical proof for the existence of heaven/hell, demons/angels, a higher being, us being spiritual, and anything else NOT scientific. I can't provide that. Nobody can. Anytime SOMEONE has what seems to be near locked proof, it's blown apart as hallucination, creations of the mind, delusions, ghosts, etc.
Parts of the scientific community drown out paranormal work, because it would seemingly RUPTURE what they study. The scientific community tends to be very diametrically opposed to that of spirit/etheric/ghost/after life work, for whatever reason you see fit to attach.
There's book like "A course in miracles" which is purportedly written by 2 college professors/phd's, who had a very strained relationship as co-workers and life ingeneral and had asked a "higher power" for help. What came was a thousand page manifest supposedly spoken by Jesus or the Holy Spirit via the mind. It's one of the most widely read books, is very straightforward, and is meant to be WHAT Jesus was actually saying as the purveyor of God's message.
Another book, "the disappearance of the universe" purports that Gary Renard had a long-lived relationship with 2 "ascended" masters for 9 years up in Maine. They appeared one day to him as out of thin air, and continually visited imparting their wisdom on him. However, ANYBODY could write them off as koos, nonbelievers, charlatans, and even question that all this was the work of the devil.
Christians might say that, as they'd believe anything NOT Jesus or God is the devil. Yet in disappearance of the universe, the crux of the relationship is that THIS whole experience we know IS NOT life. We, in fact, SPLIT from God, so we could experience ourselves, and that yes, we are SEPARATE EGOS, trying to live out an abnormal existence. The source of our pain is because we stress this fakeness around us so much, when at the very CORE of life, we're ALL the same materials, and possibly the same spirit connection.
Why or How?
A few reasons.
God is God because God is perfect.
If God is perfect WHY would he make earth to be like this.
If EVERYTHING is God, then we are with God. God's perfection assumes we've never LEFT God, because God is everywhere. Such particles cannot coexist in the same SPACE/TIME point, so we are in fact, there with God now, only having a DEEP mental dream/sleep acted out by the ego we chose. Once you ditch the extreme connection to that fake identity, all the crap goes with it.
There's more to it, but I've read far and wide enough to get a deep breadth of knowledge on it.
But then I come full circle, so what?
Your ego, yourself, might not LIKE what I say, because it's not UPLIFTING your current beliefs. Normally, people FILTER things through their current belief system, and buy or sell what they're told based on how it effects their reality.
So the whole debate on AFTER life is mute, because one's view of AFTER life, essentially dictates HOW THEY'D live.
-If people felt we're all ONE; not separate countries, or races, or sexes, or sizes, shapes, or colors, would we act distant, indifferent, biased, prejudiced, bigoted, or careless?
-If people feel there's only LIGHT outs, then the prevailing attitude is, GET WHAT I CAN NOW.
-If people feel that, doing good heightens one's energy level, thereby ascending you several planes of energy to what is known as HEAVEN, and by doing wrong/evil, you diminish your energy level, and go to what's know as HELL, people would be mroe conscious of their decisions NOW.
To me pain of ANY kind, originates with the PERSON, and their grasp of reality. Take away humanity, and the earth REMAINS the same. In fact, it improves, because we are not WRECKING mother earth. Not polluting it. However, we are here. The only heaven or hell exists in the meanings man makes up in his mind. What he attaches to what he sees. What he/she expects. It's our connection to society that brings that about.
-------------------------------------------------
To me, there is a mandate to bring down such belief systems so what we are all HERE AND NOW. TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET. SELF CENTERED. It's fine to be self-conscious, and watch our for oneself, but to impinge your existence on other's is unworthy of life.
Humans will ALWAYS try to discover what our purpose is. What reality is. What we're here for. HOW we got here. That's our sole journey. More importantly, it's about discovering YOU. Figuring you out.
It would seem MORE probable, that every person is an evolved soul (yet doesn't know it), and the rationale basis for one's ability NOW, is having lived many previous lives. Maybe they're smarter or prettier or more adept or athletic. All of that is encoded into their spirit UNTIL they've achieved enlightenment and awareness and BAM, they're outta here.
Take what you like, it's your life, and your soul if you believe. I gain nothing by educating another person or believing the same thing. I do live to explore such things because I find it fascinating.
-------------------------------------------
The same leap in mental thinking it took to cross the Atlantic eons ago, and the same leap it took in thinking to go to the moon, or place the Sun at the center of the universe is what it will take CURRENT generations to KNOW something different than what we can ONLY detect with the 5 senses filtered through a biased, animalistic, and emotional mind.
A-Unit
SELF-MASTERY
Banned
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,975
- Reaction score
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I have such conflicting views of everything.
Gods role in evolution.
How did we get here, why are we here. and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
IM confused
Gods role in evolution.
How did we get here, why are we here. and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
IM confused
Re: Re:
The rational does deal with what we can comprehend here and now. The irrational tries to deal with that which cannot be comprehended. Why can't it be comprehended? Because it clashes with reality.
People are no more than animals without logic. Without the faculty to reason, you cannot have free will and choice. What seperates us from animals is that we can take facts and use induction to form universal concepts. We can take these concepts and form even more abstract concepts, once again through the process of induction. How is all of this done? Logic and reason. If a belief system doesn't align with logic, then it doesn't align with reality, for concepts are all formed from the facts of reality. To truly believe in some kind of irrational higher power, you have to renounce logic and reduce yourself to a beast.
So to avoid being exposed as logically invalid, you just have to make the claim that your system is "beyond logic" and then you can make up whatever fairy tales you want and no one can prove you wrong, since logic is the only way to do so, and you have declared it invalid. Kind of like playing a game of football, then tying the hands of the other team behind their backs and saying that it's fair because you say so.
The rational does deal with what we can comprehend here and now. The irrational tries to deal with that which cannot be comprehended. Why can't it be comprehended? Because it clashes with reality.
Helter Skelter
Master Don Juan
I'm not sure if I believe in life after death. (such as heaven)
I would like to think theirs a heaven however.
I once read that 90% of americans believe in heaven.
My only question is how come if so many people believe in heaven,why is it almost everyone tries so hard to stay alive and avoid going there?
The thing that makes me believe, is the orgins of the universe which is a mystery to science. We're use to everything having a mother. So who's the mother to the universe?
Note* The big bang theory doesn't explain what created the material that caused the big bang.
So life after death is possible since so many things are beyond our comprehension.
I would like to think theirs a heaven however.
I once read that 90% of americans believe in heaven.
My only question is how come if so many people believe in heaven,why is it almost everyone tries so hard to stay alive and avoid going there?
The thing that makes me believe, is the orgins of the universe which is a mystery to science. We're use to everything having a mother. So who's the mother to the universe?
Note* The big bang theory doesn't explain what created the material that caused the big bang.
So life after death is possible since so many things are beyond our comprehension.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
Or it can't be comprehended because we are not ready to comprehend it yet. 1000 years ago, do you think anyone could comprehend the Internet or any number of other inventions we take for granted today? Hell, my grandma has a hard time comprehending the Internet. Does that make the Internet irrational?
I think it is irrational to assume we can or already are capable of comprehending every aspect of reality.
Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Re:
Your response is well written, but what prompted me to re-write was the combative stance I noticed, essentially trying to blow what you could deem I "believe" in live. Problem is Believe is only created by the world Belie, which is a pack of lies. So belief isn't what it is...it's KNOWING.
It's know the world. Your purport to view reality only as we see it, but that's a very minimalistic view. Anyone can make/create reality as they see fit, it's the mind giving meaning to reality.
----------------------------------------
Venturing the mind takes the venture of the creative.
What IS space? Explanation. This black space of consciousness BEFORE existence was formed, BEFORE minerals were concocted, BEFORE even elements, compounds, neurons, electrons, photons, protons, gases, heat, light, nuclear energy before that.
Dealing in reality, what logical/rational explanation exists for what we know as space and what CREATED that? Who said..."let there be motion or THESE things that predate the universe and served to create the universe.
It's all well and good to take the "Ayn Rand-only reality matters and only facts count" stance, however, face the questions and issues presented.
The mind considers IRRATIONAL what it cannot comprehend logically. HOWEVER, the mind is very foolish. We raise the intellect to superhuman powers, but fail to realize it can be the source of pain for many. Simply because it appears IRRATIONAL to one person, does not make it uniformly IRRATIONAL.
"Perspective is subjective."
Early explorers would have thought crossing the Atlantic to be IRRATIONAL based on KNOWN beliefs at that time. Yet, a few corporations later, some investments from the crown, and brave explorers we sit here with the freedom to debate something considered SHEER lunacy and perhaps MORE than just deemed IRRATIONAL.
ALL pieces of society WERE once IRRATIONAL forms of thinking of the mind. However, people brave enough placed thinking piece of thought into material form. And walla! The world before us.
You act as if LOGIC is the only tool by which we work. No, it isn't. Animals aren't necessarily led by EMOTION or FEELINGS, they're INSTINCTS, GENETIC programming, reactors to their social environment. Animals can't fathom that which surrounds them. A dog hears a noise, he barks, even if it's a car horn or a dog on TV. A little dog chases little animals like squirrels, even if it's stupid to do since that talent is long outmoded. They can't change their environment or observe.
Belief in a higher being, totally obliterates the theory of evolution, which is why religious, higher power, and mystical topics are always in the NETHER realms and can be written off.
I've never tried to SWAY a logic, I just like to raise questions, actual LOGICAL questions that take me down deep, dark pathways, that remain unanswerable, and it's THOSE questions to which reality has no answers that leads me to a TEMPORARILY irrational system of belief. Only temporary, because I've opened my thinking up, nothing is outside of rational, because I consider the thought.
Nice reponse though, but refute the evidence, not the speaker.
A-Unit
Your response is well written, but what prompted me to re-write was the combative stance I noticed, essentially trying to blow what you could deem I "believe" in live. Problem is Believe is only created by the world Belie, which is a pack of lies. So belief isn't what it is...it's KNOWING.
It's know the world. Your purport to view reality only as we see it, but that's a very minimalistic view. Anyone can make/create reality as they see fit, it's the mind giving meaning to reality.
----------------------------------------
Venturing the mind takes the venture of the creative.
What IS space? Explanation. This black space of consciousness BEFORE existence was formed, BEFORE minerals were concocted, BEFORE even elements, compounds, neurons, electrons, photons, protons, gases, heat, light, nuclear energy before that.
Dealing in reality, what logical/rational explanation exists for what we know as space and what CREATED that? Who said..."let there be motion or THESE things that predate the universe and served to create the universe.
It's all well and good to take the "Ayn Rand-only reality matters and only facts count" stance, however, face the questions and issues presented.
The mind considers IRRATIONAL what it cannot comprehend logically. HOWEVER, the mind is very foolish. We raise the intellect to superhuman powers, but fail to realize it can be the source of pain for many. Simply because it appears IRRATIONAL to one person, does not make it uniformly IRRATIONAL.
"Perspective is subjective."
Early explorers would have thought crossing the Atlantic to be IRRATIONAL based on KNOWN beliefs at that time. Yet, a few corporations later, some investments from the crown, and brave explorers we sit here with the freedom to debate something considered SHEER lunacy and perhaps MORE than just deemed IRRATIONAL.
ALL pieces of society WERE once IRRATIONAL forms of thinking of the mind. However, people brave enough placed thinking piece of thought into material form. And walla! The world before us.
You act as if LOGIC is the only tool by which we work. No, it isn't. Animals aren't necessarily led by EMOTION or FEELINGS, they're INSTINCTS, GENETIC programming, reactors to their social environment. Animals can't fathom that which surrounds them. A dog hears a noise, he barks, even if it's a car horn or a dog on TV. A little dog chases little animals like squirrels, even if it's stupid to do since that talent is long outmoded. They can't change their environment or observe.
It's a nice quote, but we all know man isn't and wasn't a beast. Nor will he ever be. Giving into our more gluttonous habits doesn't make us, though we engage in habits akin to animals. Perhaps you have me or anyone mistake with a domineering Super Power? To believe we're dust and bones is to believe we're mere physical animals, only a few rungs up the evolutionary ladder.
Belief in a higher being, totally obliterates the theory of evolution, which is why religious, higher power, and mystical topics are always in the NETHER realms and can be written off.
I've never tried to SWAY a logic, I just like to raise questions, actual LOGICAL questions that take me down deep, dark pathways, that remain unanswerable, and it's THOSE questions to which reality has no answers that leads me to a TEMPORARILY irrational system of belief. Only temporary, because I've opened my thinking up, nothing is outside of rational, because I consider the thought.
Nice reponse though, but refute the evidence, not the speaker.
A-Unit
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
This I don't agree with. Evolution is a fact, not a theory. It has been proven many times over. It also doesn't conflict with my belief in a higher power in the least. Adam and Eve is nothing more than a story designed to teach a lesson and to explain the beginnings of humanity before we understood otherwise. Only the most conservative, close minded Christian would think evolution conflicts with the existance of God (and unfortunately there are many
).StrangeButTrue
Senior Don Juan
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My best argument for some kind of higher power is this- how did, at first, the tiniest of particles of particles, smaller than quarks, etc, at first assemble themselves into protons... neutrons... electrons... what makes them have the charge they do?
And the big one... How did we go from a bunch of inanimate elements, to somehow, somewhere, sometime, a living bacteria?
And from there it's all history.
And the big one... How did we go from a bunch of inanimate elements, to somehow, somewhere, sometime, a living bacteria?
And from there it's all history.
Scrumtulescence
Master Don Juan
Chance.
When your planet is circling one out of 100billion x 100billion stars, it's not as out of the question as some people like to think.
That is absolutely not true at all. The existence of a higher power does not negate evolution.
And just a couple tidbits about evolution that seem to always need to be thrown into these discussion:
Evolution is indeed a fact. Don't deny it and make yourself look like a fool. Micro-evolution has been proven to be real. It's Macro-evolution that is just a theory, but it is far more well-founded than creationists love to believe. Denying the theory of evolution in favor of creationism or "intelligent design" is akin to denying astronomy in favor of astrology. The only reason you don't see Christians doing that is because astrology doesn't conflict with the bible. Christianity will always be ruthlessly attacking anything that undermines it or the bible no matter how ridiculous or antiquated their claims are.
Also, some people seem to confuse evolution with abiogenesis. Get your theories straight, then argue against them. Evolution is the change from one species to another and has nothing to do with the origin of life.
Peace and Quiet
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