levels of afc-ness and defining it more sharply

[Delta]

this should be addressed in the bible.

some guys have SEVERE social problems that go FAR FAR beyond the scope of merely being an AFC.

some guys might be wondering why they can't get chicks when there is a boatload of other, deeper issues that really really interfere with that goal.

THIS is when self help is relevant. but again, it is trying to address personal development on a scope that is beyond mere afc-ness.

afc's definition should be sharpened up some:

guys who are in all other ways great people: they're not 'nice pushovers' and they're not bottom feeders without any social skills, etiquette or grace.

they're the great guys who may even be your friends and yet they just never get any play with women.

that, in my mind, is the true afc.

delta

 

[rgeere]

It depends how you define 'AFC.'

If you are a player, an AFC is typically defined as any man who exposes any form of weakness. This could be someone who is considered 'marriage' or 'relationship' material, or even for example happily married men who have regular sex with their wives are considered AFC because they do not use 'tricks' or 'manipulation' or 'false faces' to disguise their weaknesses and take control of situations.

If you are a non-player, then an AFC is defined as the total opposit. These non-player types are mature and accept their own weakness, and see little meaning in playing games and broadcasting false faces, and appears immature to them. Also, any man who lacks maturity enough to realize that women should not be taken at face value or even seriously at all in most circumstances would be considered AFC to these men.

Then there is the classic AFC, the stuttering nerd who can't get a word in edgewise, doesn't give himself credit for anything, and often can't stand for his own rights. The guy who played spiderman in the recent spiderman movies is a perfect example of the classical AFC stereotype.

 

[rgeere]

I forgot to mention the core diffrences between the player and non-player types. It is important for each one to note strengths and flaws, but the main diffrence is how they handle themselves.

A player is more like a wolf, a non-player is more like a guarddog, and the AFC is basically a sheep. It all depends on whether you have been born into the world with Aggressive, Assertive, or Passive tendencies, which either provokes intrusion, protection, or victimization. I think it is obvious where a person should want to be.

 

[Interpol]

Originally posted by Delta

afc's definition should be sharpened up some:

guys who are in all other ways great people: they're not 'nice pushovers' and they're not bottom feeders without any social skills, etiquette or grace.

they're the great guys who may even be your friends and yet they just never get any play with women.

that, in my mind, is the true afc.

delta

I understand what you're saying here. My roommate is a perfect example of this - he is physically attractive, in good shape, an excellent singer and guitar player, intelligent, etc. He has good social status and is fairly outgoing. He doesn't come off as blatantly desperate or sleazy. Yet despite all this, he has virtually no success with women whatsoever.

 

[Dapper Swindler]

To me, AFC means exactly what it stands for. Someone who is average. Someone who is frustrated with their lack of success with women and seeing all the DJs get women. And someone who is a chump. I take chump to mean that this person, despite all their failures, has either the wrong idea or no idea about what he needs to do to fix things.

There are more classes of people other than AFCs and DJs. There is an even more frustrating and larger group of men (at least for me) who are not frustrated and simply don't care to pursue women. They want women but don't make the slightest amount of work to get them. They never ask women out or even think about it. For some reason they just assume it's not for them. They aren't frustrated because they never attempt anything.

 

[rgeere]

I disagree with you guys ... I don't think that these guys are AFcs necessarily, but I can't say they are totally DJs either. Basically they just hav't gotten off of their lazy butts enough to realize they have potential enough to pull girls is all; the basic capabilities needed to do this are all there atleast.

 

[Delta]

rgeere and dapper,

i think you guys are WAAAAAAaaaaay off in characterizing hopeless howards' as being lazy.

their despair may and probably does lie in a complete lack of knowledge on the subject.

i was (probably still am) there.

for the more analytical and (dare i say) intelligent among us, we simply can't be compelled to just DO... SOMETHING.

if all we've ever known is failure (whether that's 300 or 2), we have a distinct feeling that we lack something.

and we're right.

and we have no idea what that is.

we're also correct in that.

unfortunately, there isn't a well publicized rooute for educating ourselves in this matter. and so many many hopeless souls go on in quiet despair...

until they snap and pull out ak-47s in some unfortunate location....

anyhoo, just wanted to say that whatever it is, it's not mere laziness.

delta

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by Delta
rgeere and dapper,

i think you guys are WAAAAAAaaaaay off in characterizing hopeless howards' as being lazy.

their despair may and probably does lie in a complete lack of knowledge on the subject.

i was (probably still am) there.

for the more analytical and (dare i say) intelligent among us, we simply can't be compelled to just DO... SOMETHING.

if all we've ever known is failure (whether that's 300 or 2), we have a distinct feeling that we lack something.

and we're right.

and we have no idea what that is.

we're also correct in that.

unfortunately, there isn't a well publicized rooute for educating ourselves in this matter. and so many many hopeless souls go on in quiet despair...

until they snap and pull out ak-47s in some unfortunate location....

anyhoo, just wanted to say that whatever it is, it's not mere laziness.

delta

It sounds to me that what you are describing men that suffer from various degrees of higher-level autism such as Asperger's syndrome. People who have this are often intelligent, can act otherwise normal with a few noticable oddities, and can have limited or almost no knowledge on how to act in most social situations, and suffer from a form of 'mind-blindness,' where they can't read peoples social cues.

I'm not saying that your friend has it necessarily, but he might. I wouldn't be so quick to make a diagnosis just based on this, though.

 

[rgeere]

Another thing is that alot of people have this disorder and don't realize it because they have learned how to act normal through life expereince, where as other people were born with the same capabilities and with better efficency.

They might realize that something is missing, but don't realize that they wern't born with certain capabilities and do nothing about it.

 

[Teen Spirit]

Obviously this is really bugging you, otherwise you wouldn't have posted about it. From the sound of your post, you seem to have a feeling of guilt towards this girl. Now, feeling guilty towards her, isn't a good thing because it just sits in the back of your mind nagging, until you do something about it, often causing mental and physical discomfort.
So, now it seems you have two options:

1. You stop ignoring her, talk to her like a friend and try to get things sorted out between the two of you, without getting back into a relationship with her, because you stated yourself that you don't want that.

2. You can keep on ignoring her, until the nagging feeling in the background slowly fades away, only waiting to be brought back to life if you ever see her again.


Personally, I'm always all for keeping relationships out of the "negative" zone, in which you are with her right now, but it's your call.

 

[Delta]

biggest argument AGAINST autism is that these guys (me included) have successful social relationships if they are non-sexual in nature.

although perhaps there is a form of 'sexual autism'?

they can't *** until they've counted all the spilled toothpicks?

delta

 

[Teen Spirit]

I understand. Try bulking up a bit. Read Diesels thread in the fitness forum. Remember, you gotta eat big to get big. Good luck, buddy.

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by Delta
biggest argument AGAINST autism is that these guys (me included) have successful social relationships if they are non-sexual in nature.

although perhaps there is a form of 'sexual autism'?

That doesn't matter ... there are diffrent extreemes of high-level autism that sometimes are not severe enough to impair them from being social and making friends. Normally these types lack the severities and only suffer from a small degree of 'mind-blindness' that keeps them from understanding certain basic social cues, like what type a smile or frown someone is broadcasting, and they only learn to deal with social cues related to their own sex. They don't learn to deal with women out of convience and because they are diffrent looking than other men, and that throws them off because they reach beyond their own rhelm of familiarity.

Some would say this is only plausible, but is actually the case with most of these types unfortunatelly.