TesuqueRed
Master Don Juan
Man!--some quality material from the guys here--archive this, the subject will come up again, I'm sure, and we'll likely not get as many good posts on it in one place again.
Letting a girl know she's giving you the runaround... good idea?
- Thread starter Lost Savior
- Start date
To all the girls out there:
If you ever meet a man, like some of those, who posted above, with a childish I-am-now-angry-at-you-and-I-will-punish-you-but-I-will-not-tell-you-why attitude:
NEXT!!!
There are enough ADULT men around, who do have the courage to speak, when they don´t like the way things are. If he makes it a guessing game, he should go away. It is not your job, to find out, what he doesn´t like about you.
If you ever meet a man, like some of those, who posted above, with a childish I-am-now-angry-at-you-and-I-will-punish-you-but-I-will-not-tell-you-why attitude:
NEXT!!!
There are enough ADULT men around, who do have the courage to speak, when they don´t like the way things are. If he makes it a guessing game, he should go away. It is not your job, to find out, what he doesn´t like about you.
TesuqueRed
Master Don Juan
simplyme--
I don't think anyone said anything of the sort as you suggest.
I heard a great many considered, well-measured adult replies above.
I didn't see where anyone suggested the guy should get petulant and pull the "silent treatment" and manipulate his way in response to a woman's actions. I didn't see any suggestion of a guessing game.
I believe all these guys who posted are quite clear about what they want and are willing to state it without hesitation.
That's not the point of any of the posts here.
It was a simple set-up: when you encounter a girl who is pulling stunts (my words) and playing games (the original poster's words), do bust her on it?
Mostly we say "no, just leave." Her IL is low and she's likely a low-quality game-player (most cases...) Don't make a big deal of it, just gracefully move on. There's little value (some, but little) in busting her on it--that's what we're saying.
Not busting her on it and moving on isn't immature or cowardice. It saves everyone a lot of time and recognizes that doing otherwise accomplishes very little.
Frankly--I agree with your premise (immature, manipulative, tantrum-prone boys should be avoided because there are more mature men who can candidly speak their mind)--I just don't see it as being an issue in this thread.
I don't think anyone said anything of the sort as you suggest.
I heard a great many considered, well-measured adult replies above.
I didn't see where anyone suggested the guy should get petulant and pull the "silent treatment" and manipulate his way in response to a woman's actions. I didn't see any suggestion of a guessing game.
I believe all these guys who posted are quite clear about what they want and are willing to state it without hesitation.
That's not the point of any of the posts here.
It was a simple set-up: when you encounter a girl who is pulling stunts (my words) and playing games (the original poster's words), do bust her on it?
Mostly we say "no, just leave." Her IL is low and she's likely a low-quality game-player (most cases...) Don't make a big deal of it, just gracefully move on. There's little value (some, but little) in busting her on it--that's what we're saying.
Not busting her on it and moving on isn't immature or cowardice. It saves everyone a lot of time and recognizes that doing otherwise accomplishes very little.
Frankly--I agree with your premise (immature, manipulative, tantrum-prone boys should be avoided because there are more mature men who can candidly speak their mind)--I just don't see it as being an issue in this thread.
Hmm.. Last autumn I was in full 'Doc Love' dating mode. I met one girl and we got on well, so we agreed to go on a date. She cancelled because she 'had a cold', so we arranged to get together the following week. It was all arranged - time and place, and I told her to email me to confirm a couple of days in advance. Then she vanished. I SMSed her once to find out if she was still on for the date, heard nothing back. I decided not to show, which was the right move.
Two weeks later, I get an SMS from her - "Sorry about disappearing. Do you still want to get together?" So, she cancels, then we set up another date, then she ignores me, and as far as she knows she stands me up. Then she contacts me like nothing happened. Like I say, I was in Doc Love mode so I replied with a simple 'No thank you, all the best."
That felt like the right thing to do at the time but now I'm thinking differently. Should it have even bothered me enough to NEXT her like that? She hardly knew me, owed me nothing, and flaked out. Obviously something happened in her life, or she had second thoughts, or whatever. Who cares?
At the time I thought if I accepted her offer to meet again without saying anything about her flaking out, she'd see me as a wuss. I knew that if I acted all b*tchy with her about it she'd definitely see me as a wuss. Now, I think well, it didn't really bother me at all that she vanished. I hardly knew her, and there were plenty more where she came from, so why not meet up? As far as she's concerned I may not have even noticed that she vanished.
Sure, her flakiness put her into the 'Definitely not LTR' camp in my mind, but by NEXTing her, I missed out on all the other possibilities (namely, hitting it).
So my stance now for a flaky girl that I've just met, would be DON'T call her on it, DON'T NEXT her, just don't let whatever she does bother me, she's a stranger, and make time to see her if it suits me.
As far as girls that I have known for a while or have a relationship with, I'd go the mature adult route on their flakiness and tell them to stop their little games or I'm walking.
Two weeks later, I get an SMS from her - "Sorry about disappearing. Do you still want to get together?" So, she cancels, then we set up another date, then she ignores me, and as far as she knows she stands me up. Then she contacts me like nothing happened. Like I say, I was in Doc Love mode so I replied with a simple 'No thank you, all the best."
That felt like the right thing to do at the time but now I'm thinking differently. Should it have even bothered me enough to NEXT her like that? She hardly knew me, owed me nothing, and flaked out. Obviously something happened in her life, or she had second thoughts, or whatever. Who cares?
At the time I thought if I accepted her offer to meet again without saying anything about her flaking out, she'd see me as a wuss. I knew that if I acted all b*tchy with her about it she'd definitely see me as a wuss. Now, I think well, it didn't really bother me at all that she vanished. I hardly knew her, and there were plenty more where she came from, so why not meet up? As far as she's concerned I may not have even noticed that she vanished.
Sure, her flakiness put her into the 'Definitely not LTR' camp in my mind, but by NEXTing her, I missed out on all the other possibilities (namely, hitting it).
So my stance now for a flaky girl that I've just met, would be DON'T call her on it, DON'T NEXT her, just don't let whatever she does bother me, she's a stranger, and make time to see her if it suits me.
As far as girls that I have known for a while or have a relationship with, I'd go the mature adult route on their flakiness and tell them to stop their little games or I'm walking.
LowPlainsDrifter
Senior Don Juan
bp1974...
Although I think you make a good point, the purpose of "nexting" is threefold (at least).
1. If the woman is doing this to be a bit sadistic, you're denying her the satisfaction of breaking dates again and again.
2. If the woman is doing this simply due to low interest, you're sparing yourself from repeated future incidents of being stood up.
3. No matter how slight an inconvenience you may view it as, it's still not right for a woman to do that. Any man who allows that is still getting stepped on, no matter how lightly they take it. And it shouldn't be tolerated.
Although I think you make a good point, the purpose of "nexting" is threefold (at least).
1. If the woman is doing this to be a bit sadistic, you're denying her the satisfaction of breaking dates again and again.
2. If the woman is doing this simply due to low interest, you're sparing yourself from repeated future incidents of being stood up.
3. No matter how slight an inconvenience you may view it as, it's still not right for a woman to do that. Any man who allows that is still getting stepped on, no matter how lightly they take it. And it shouldn't be tolerated.
I can see where you're coming from. My perspective is a little different. I am starting from the position that, seeing as I hardly know this person, my interest in them is pretty low. I have very little invested in seeing them again, other than a curiosity to find out more about them. Particularly if I'm already dating one or two others. Arranging a date is very little effort - if it's cancelled, so what?
From this angle, the sadism argument doesn't work. She may get her kicks from it, but I'm not actually getting hurt at all by her games, I'm just not caring. Sadism requires the sadist to be causing someone pain, or there's no thrill. She may imagine pain on my part, but by not reacting I'm not playing along with her silliness.
Your second and third points I agree with. I see vanishing or cancelling as something not worth a second thought, but being actually stood up is something I'd allow once, give her another chance, and then NEXT if she did it again. It inconveniences me to travel somewhere and then wait 20 mins for a ghost. I won't b*tch her out about it though. I spare that kind of effort for people who are worth it - my friends, for example. Telling someone I'm p8ssed off with them is something I only do if I care about my relationship with that person. Bear in mind that the woman I was talking about never stood me up, because I didn't show either.
Being stood up shouldn't be tolerated more than once, but cancelling or vanishing is pretty much to be expected from a lot of women in the beginning. It takes time for a new woman to decide she wants to put you in the forefront of her life, as it should for you to decide the same about her. Until that time, you're just getting to know someone new, who you may or may not grow to like. Why worry?
From this angle, the sadism argument doesn't work. She may get her kicks from it, but I'm not actually getting hurt at all by her games, I'm just not caring. Sadism requires the sadist to be causing someone pain, or there's no thrill. She may imagine pain on my part, but by not reacting I'm not playing along with her silliness.
Your second and third points I agree with. I see vanishing or cancelling as something not worth a second thought, but being actually stood up is something I'd allow once, give her another chance, and then NEXT if she did it again. It inconveniences me to travel somewhere and then wait 20 mins for a ghost. I won't b*tch her out about it though. I spare that kind of effort for people who are worth it - my friends, for example. Telling someone I'm p8ssed off with them is something I only do if I care about my relationship with that person. Bear in mind that the woman I was talking about never stood me up, because I didn't show either.
Being stood up shouldn't be tolerated more than once, but cancelling or vanishing is pretty much to be expected from a lot of women in the beginning. It takes time for a new woman to decide she wants to put you in the forefront of her life, as it should for you to decide the same about her. Until that time, you're just getting to know someone new, who you may or may not grow to like. Why worry?
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
I will assume you were speaking to me. Have you read the DJ bible or had experiences with disrespectful women? The whole point of this thread was dealing with a disrespectful woman.
I happen to belive that turn about is fair play! If a chick can dish out flaky disrespect, when I mean her no harm or ill will, then she can take a little flakiness. I have never and will never disrespect a woman who holds herself up as a woman and appreciates a kind respectful man. But, a flaky chick who doesn't pick up her phone after ive driven 35 minutes to come see her deserves to be taken down a peg or two. If that makes me immature in your eyes SO-BE-IT.
I consider it a service to my fellow man. Maybe the next time she meets a guy who treats her nicely she will think of the lesson she learned. Im not gonna disrespect her but after Ive been laying down the d!ck and Im tired of her I won't feel any sorrow when I she gives me the BF speech. Im just gonna remind her thats shes flaky and disrespectful and thats she not LTR material. IMHO
If putting up with a womans sh!t, and "giving her a piece of you mind" works for you, though I highly doubt it, I say play on playa. I'll stick to what I know works!
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
bp1974, this is advanced DJ'ing. This is the next level of the DJ game. It might be hard for newbies to understand this concept. When you have lots of women and you can get what you want it doesn't bother you when one chick flakes. You start seeing the NO's as a challenge. When my confidence is high I feel and a chick flakes I feel like "does she know who shes messing with," or "I can have her eve though she doesn't realize it." There are times when you know your game is tight, that you know its not you or anything you did wrong so there must be a problem with her. So you just wait, be patient, eliminate your desire, and eventually your opportunity will come.
ZeeOwl
Senior Don Juan
I think it depends on context. In general, I would agree with most of the posters that it's a waste of time calling her on her stupid behavior. Most women will sub-consciously block it, and justify their flaky behavior to themselves, no matter how twisted the logic they need to use.
There are exceptions though. Some women are actually motivated to improve themselves, and act decently towards others. It's usually pretty easy to spot those (eager to please type), that is uncomfortable with others being irritated with her when she does something stupid. They're rare, but they do exist.
Here's a thread I started a while back about a woman I met which fits this personality type perfectly:
http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36107
I don't know if anything good (for me) will come of it, but at the very least I'm sure I've "improved" her for the next guy that comes along. As a contrast, I think the woman from this thread is a hopelessly lost cause:
http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36298
There are exceptions though. Some women are actually motivated to improve themselves, and act decently towards others. It's usually pretty easy to spot those (eager to please type), that is uncomfortable with others being irritated with her when she does something stupid. They're rare, but they do exist.
Here's a thread I started a while back about a woman I met which fits this personality type perfectly:http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36107
I don't know if anything good (for me) will come of it, but at the very least I'm sure I've "improved" her for the next guy that comes along. As a contrast, I think the woman from this thread is a hopelessly lost cause:
http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36298
iqqi
Master Don Juan
this is very true. thank you, simplyme, because i needed to hear this right now.
and this is also true. just make sure you are not too far gone into the previous manipulative idea above. that is not DJ, it is immature.
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
Now i'm laughing. You are exactly the type of chick that makes men find these boards. You just gave simply me the head nodding, PC aproval (that doesnt get guys laid), he was seeking. While your head agrees with what he says, you and I both know he would never actually get in your panties with that kind of thinking. How do we know hmm.....because your head and your heart desire two different things. Your head says yes women want to be comforted and understood as equals blah blaah blah. But the real you, says I want the psycho, crazy, needy, bad boy, http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38479
I laugh whenever I read about a woman saying what is DJ or not DJ. Aren't you the same chick who falls head over heals for the crazy,psycho, manipulative, immature guys? I sense contradictions in the air. The behavior you say is good, isn't actually the behavior you seek. So the guys you say are right could never really get you hmmmmm. So should a guy do what women say he should do or should he do what actually works?
I believe, that you believe, what you are saying. The problem is what you actually want is the opposite of what even you believe you want. Its ok I learned a long time ago women have no clue what the hell they want. True DJ's know you better than you know yourself.
iqqi
Master Don Juan
good! me too! ahahhahahaha!
whatever princely. don't act like you always have the perfect situations. yeah, it is a fcuked up situation. and i appreciated your advice. but it is just a learning situation for me. i LEARN everytime i find myself in a less than par situation. and i better myself. the lesson i am learning is what i posted here, and when i update that thread. sometimes i make the same mistake twice, so i won't say that i don't. the important thing is to learn the real lesson of the matter, and i believe i do that. anyways, a real man already knows what makes him a real man, and doesn't need to resort to such manipulation and insecurity. what, you disagree?
this isn't completely true. i didn't believe the situation was that bad, plus the fact that i thought he was so great, equals me trying to make a good situation out of things i (am learning) have no control over. i know what i want, and what i don't want. it was hard for me to accept that these two things came together in this one person. it is one of those situations where it is like "ohhhh, i waaant it...but..." BUT. i thought i could change the but.
i am learning. so shoot me.
and i will learn. so bite me.
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
Im obviously not bright enough to know what the heck you were trying to say. But I do know that a real man is true to himself. If it makes him happy and he goes for it, then he is a real man to me.
I'm just that kind of freak, I like to bite!Originally posted by iqqi
and i will learn. so bite me.
Send me a pic and Ill let you know when and where (if at all) to meet me for that bite.iqqi
Master Don Juan
hmmmm...manipulator, biter, freak...sounds just like the psychos i like!Originally posted by princelydeeds
I'm just that kind of freak, I like to bite!
Howie Farkes
Don Juan
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Who said anything about getting angry and having a childish attitude? If the girl has repeatedly demonstrated flaky behaviour due to low interest you don't get angry and put some silly "silence as a punishment" sh!t test on her to hopefully raise her IL. The silence is from fact that you're not around anymore and ain't ever gonna be again!
She knows she's being flaky, but she will also never admit - even to herself - that she's done anything wrong. So she justifies her behaviour by telling herself that you deserve to be on the recieving end her flakiness - for whatever reason. Calling her on it just gives to her a concrete reason.
thissucks003
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2003
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This thread has gotten way off topic!
FOCUS: First of all, she already knows what she is doing. So telling her upfront calling her on her B/S isn't anything she doesn't already know. The problem I have with getting all pissy and telling her off is almost as bad as nexting her, because in both instances she knows she has control of the situation. Let's face it, NEXTing somebody isn't going to teach her anything. So you thinking that "I'll show her" when she already either doesn't care or is testing you shows her what you are really made of.
The problem I see is that you haven't fully attracted her on the phone. She is for the most part always getting hit on when you are not around. She has many other opportunities. So when you get her on the phone, you pretty much have to reattract her just like you did the first time. Asking her to go out at this time and place and then hanging up isn't reattracting her. You have to treat this call as you just met her.
TS