Let's Get Rich

[Mr.Positive]

Pretty darn smart, sounds good to me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggl-cS4sSiw

 

[spider_007]

it's funny...most people know what's going on...and they are still sitting on the sidelines ignoring it.

there are people protesting all over the world last couple of weeks.....and we call them wackos. we don't want to Jeopardise our confy little lives ...oh wait, they already are.

 

[Mr.Positive]

it's funny...most people know what's going on...and they are still sitting on the sidelines ignoring it..

Actually, most people are completely clueless I think. The media has a way of hiding and distorting the truth, so people get confused and just stick their heads in the sand and think it's not "their" problem.

How many people actually know what our currency is? Who knows what a dollar is? If you tell someone their money is debt, not money, would they even understand? Try telling someone their dollars were borrowed into existence, they are not real.

I've tried to before, most people don't seem to care.

Here's another one, from the same guy. He's good at explaining things in a simple way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uyif8Z7x2Q&

 

[r0cky]

The American dream is for those who are asleep.

That old guy is onto something.

 

[azanon]

This guy's right! We can't trust a government to act impartial! Everyone knows that it is the individual, not a governing body, that is far more likely to act in the interest of everyone else and the environment. The individual is far more likely to look out for for the welfare of others!

If one wants a modern day view of what its truly like when individuals are in control, pay attention to your TV when they're showing the Libyans.

If I was going to try to make a case against the government, I sure as hell wouldn't try to make a mockery of the #1 killer of the 20-45 age group (that'd be car wreaks), or try to imply vaccinations aren't legitimate.

If I tried to find a more idiotic video on youtube that the one linked in the OP, I'd have my work cut out for me.

 

[Alle_Gory]

That's because in America socialism exists for the rich, they get bailouts and big severance packages for running companies into the ground, but if the little guy does it all of a sudden it's a dirty word. Socialist! UGH.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Socialism is bad in both forms, let's work to get rid of both cancers instead of creating another one.

Hahahaha, you think the powerful will give up power that easily? Look what happened in the last year with dictators and revolutions. Once they have power, influence, and money they will not give up without a bloody struggle.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Every increase in socialism only gives more power to the powerful.

Sounds like there might be something to that, I'd like to see your explanation.

 

[r0cky]

The only way we can ever get rid of all these problems for good is if we get rid of government and any type of leadership, work under love (which will rid of the need for laws), and have a no growth economy. However, this means getting rid of the psychology of selfishness and materialism that is so deeply accepted by most.

 

[Alle_Gory]

However, this means getting rid of the psychology of selfishness and materialism that is so deeply accepted by most.

So you mean bio engineering better humans.

 

[r0cky]

So you mean bio engineering better humans.

I was thinking more along the lines of revamping the educational system. Or perhaps create a new society somewhere in the amazons.

 

[Alle_Gory]

I was thinking more along the lines of revamping the educational system. Or perhaps create a new society somewhere in the amazons.

Education will work but where are you going to find good people to educate who have a spine? The amazon is being razed to make toilet paper and drywall for Walmart.

 

[DanelMadr]

Sounds like there might be something to that, I'd like to see your explanation.

I try, based on my practical experiences living in one.

Basically, in order for socialism to work, people give their power to some authority to use it to spread it justly between all. That authority becomes therefore very powerful.

Even if that authority did it's best -no corruption, no bureaucratic overhead - it wouldn't work. It is impossible (proven mathematically) to collect all data (individual productivity and circumstances objective or subjective etc.) and calculate the best spread ratio. Therefore sense of injustice in population will rise and with it demoralization, procrastination and inefficiency. You get in to spiral pointing down.
And people have only one to blame, since they gave up their responsibility with power. The authority will be "forced" to suppress and control the individuals in order to maintain the system....even force people to work making them slaves for the greater good which is getting smaller every day.

Socialism is nothing new. It is basically feudalism in the age of machines.
It is the stupidest old idea dressed in new dress of republic.

 

[DanelMadr]

This guy's right! We can't trust a government to act impartial! Everyone knows that it is the individual, not a governing body, that is far more likely to act in the interest of everyone else and the environment. The individual is far more likely to look out for for the welfare of others!

The individual is best at looking after himself and his environment. When all look after themselves therefore all is best.
Gov. (justice) should ensure that individual rights don't collide-fair trade, not polluting your neighbor etc, instead gov looks after others in preemptive policies. In order to doi so puts it's wobbly hands in economy / banking sector and inflates, bails out and do injustice, just to be able to print money on bribes for voters who feel like people can't take care of themselves.

If one wants a modern day view of what its truly like when individuals are in control, pay attention to your TV when they're showing the Libyans.

Yeah right, that's why people need strong central authority...like Col. Kaddafi....to behave. Bc he disappeared anyone who would even hint, that things are not like as presented on national TV.

I am amazed how socialists sympathize with tyrants. It sorta proves my point they are feudalistic in nature.

 

[DanelMadr]

Education will work but where are you going to find good people to educate who have a spine?

There will be a bureau for selecting teachers. Nothing new. Catholic church, Austrian empire, Nazis and Soviets all had such bureaus. It is called indoctrination and you simply get rid of those who don't get it and don't even try to pretend.
Capitalists, farmers, industrialists, former politicians and security services members are either disposed of or delegated to manual labor and their offspring are not allowed in state apparatus either unless they cooperate extensively.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Basically, in order for socialism to work, people give their power to some authority to use it to spread it justly between all. That authority becomes therefore very powerful.

Yes, but we already have that with a "democratic" and "capitalist" system. It's called the government and monopolies/cartels.

Therefore sense of injustice in population will rise and with it demoralization, procrastination and inefficiency. You get in to spiral pointing down.

You mean like we have now although procrastination and inefficiency are due to other reasons, mostly incompetence and wanting to escape the daily grind through cheap entertainment and chemical means.

And people have only one to blame, since they gave up their responsibility with power. The authority will be "forced" to suppress and control the individuals in order to maintain the system....even force people to work making them slaves for the greater good which is getting smaller every day.

You mean like we have now, although you're not really forced into a form of slavery (debt) as much as you are only given one option. Either you take the debt and go to school or do nothing much. Companies no longer do apprenticeships (paid and free), companies are no longer willing to pay for training employees, companies are no longer willing to hire new people as employees unless they have 5 years experience in some new technology that came out last year.... etc. It's complete bullsh*t and you can see why people are fed up.

Socialism is nothing new. It is basically feudalism in the age of machines.
It is the stupidest old idea dressed in new dress of republic.

Tell me what's better. I understand the ideal of captalism but the reality is the system is very much manipulated into a twisted form of socialism for the rich and powerful and a big f*ck you to everyone else.

 

[DanelMadr]

Yes, but we already have that with a "democratic" and "capitalist" system. It's called the government and monopolies/cartels.

But in socialism is the gov is 100% and monopoly is the only form of business. Meanwhile in capitalism where gov is minimal, monopolies are short lived, thanks to no backing by gov they fall under competition, which is more efficient, customer friendly etc. Name a monopoly and you find a government backing.

You mean like we have now although procrastination and inefficiency are due to other reasons, mostly incompetence and wanting to escape the daily grind through cheap entertainment and chemical means.

Yes, only much worse. The psychological impact is not that great in socialism, bc you can blame the gov 100%. Nevertheless people in socialism tend to be more grumpy and pissed off at each other, especially at gov. And you live under constant fear they will find out how demotivated you are.

You mean like we have now, although you're not really forced into a form of slavery (debt) as much as you are only given one option. Either you take the debt and go to school or do nothing much. Companies no longer do apprenticeships (paid and free), companies are no longer willing to pay for training employees, companies are no longer willing to hire new people as employees unless they have 5 years experience in some new technology that came out last year.... etc. It's complete bullsh*t and you can see why people are fed up.

Yeah much worse. Total slave in socialism. You can't pick a school, it is more or less picked for you, paid for by working people, who remind you of that. Gov. pays everything, so when gov says you do something, you do it. In socialism you HAVE to work, unless you are disabled. And no you can't pick a job you like or start one. No employer is interested in your skills, not that they will fire someone to hire you, the have quotas to fill. You have to be genius to pick a job you like. You can't become a monk, unless states approves of it....other people have to provide for you, remember.

Todays job market is also tinted by minimum wage, welfare, affirmative action etc. Employee is very expensive for a company because of big taxes to sustain the social safety net. Again...marks of socialism.

Tell me what's better. I understand the ideal of captalism but the reality is the system is very much manipulated into a twisted form of socialism for the rich and powerful and a big f*ck you to everyone else.

Current capitalism is a compromise between free market idea and socialism... lately geared more to the left. Founding fathers would call it feudalism.
But believe me, real socialism is much much worse than this.

Ideal of free individuals competing on free market where gov guarantees their liberties and fair play, of course is not flawless. But I believe it is the best we can get.

Socialism is feudalism, only with gov instead of feudal.....eventually it will turn to pure feudalism where one party or even dictator rules. It is inevitable when you give so much power in one place.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Name a monopoly and you find a government backing.

When Microsoft was almost a monopoly. Government backing? Not likely.

Nevertheless people in socialism tend to be more grumpy and pissed off at each other, especially at gov. And you live under constant fear they will find out how demotivated you are.

As a Canadian living in a socialist country this is completely false.

You can't pick a school, it is more or less picked for you, paid for by working people, who remind you of that.

You can't pick schools in a "democratic" country either. When you move into an area you must go to a certain school within a certain range from your home. If you don't, you go to jail for 20 years for trying to get a better education for your kid from the tax dollars you pay.

Gov. pays everything, so when gov says you do something, you do it. In socialism you HAVE to work, unless you are disabled. And no you can't pick a job you like or start one. No employer is interested in your skills, not that they will fire someone to hire you, the have quotas to fill. You have to be genius to pick a job you like. You can't become a monk, unless states approves of it....other people have to provide for you, remember.

Again, as a Canadian in a socialist country I see none of this. None at all. Are we talking about the same thing? You must be talking about Communism which fits the bill very closely.

You should visit a socialist country and find out for yourself.

 

[DanelMadr]

When Microsoft was almost a monopoly. Government backing? Not likely.

I knew you say that. But MS is not hardcore monopoly. If it slacks in quality or puts higher price there is competition. They slacked in smart phones' OS and it worked. The reason they are still more than 75% dominant in PC OS is their competition is weak but they are loosing to Apple big time and even Linux takes a bite. They are strongest in gov environment thanks to security clearance and certification but Red Hat is improving.

As a Canadian living in a socialist country this is completely false.

Canada is still far from real socialism...private property of big business, private alternatives to public school, insurance etc.

You can't pick schools in a "democratic" country either. When you move into an area you must go to a certain school within a certain range from your home. If you don't, you go to jail for 20 years for trying to get a better education for your kid from the tax dollars you pay.

For basic school you mean. And you can put a child to private one.
In socialism everything has to be planned and managed so when state needs more plumbers, they open school for them. You can choose but chances are slim unless you bribe it.

Again, as a Canadian in a socialist country I see none of this. None at all. Are we talking about the same thing? You must be talking about Communism which fits the bill very closely.

In Canada you have capitalism with some socialistic ideas/policies. The capitalism works despite these but sometimes it chokes like now thanks to socialistic monetary policies creating debt and inflation.

You should visit a socialist country and find out for yourself.

I lived in pure socialism...no private property, housing, medicare, education and work provided, controlled by state. After collapse of USSR we still struggle thanks to socialistic leftovers-politicians regulate too much - corruption, medicare is bankrupt.....
Whatever was reformed....passed to private hands....works 5 times better. I see the difference with my own eyes, it is amazing. And I don't get it when westerners want more socialism....you need less.

 

[azanon]

The individual is best at looking after himself and his environment. When all look after themselves therefore all is best.
Gov. (justice) should ensure that individual rights don't collide-fair trade, not polluting your neighbor etc, instead gov looks after others in preemptive policies.

You can't separate those two things, chief. Trust me fellow, everyone wants to do what is in their personal interests, and, generally speaking, they don't give a damn how it affects everyone else. Look, that's human nature.

You have to have an impartial third-party group seeing to it, as you said, that individual rights don't collide. That's where government comes in. I think you are a bit unfair to just presume that public servants only make decisions based on votes. If that were the case, wouldn't every politician just be for whatever issue is most popular in straw polls?

Its also human nature to want to be "cake-eaters". What the "right-wingers" never think about is while they are all screaming for individual rights, it apparently never occurs to them what will happen when EVERYONE ELSE also has individual rights, that won't coincide with their own.