Lack of interest in SS/NLP on this board?

[The Truth]

That's why girls test. They want to make sure that all this upfront game is real and not just a facade. PUA's can get with women but very few will be able to keep them for any amount of time if all they focus on is wooing her into bed and have nothing else to offer, longterm.

Yet again you make a great point. I've read many of your posts and you're definitely one of the members I respect most on this forum!

 

[everywomanshero]

Nlp

NLP has not fared well in controlled studies. The basic premise behind many of RJs ideas were flawed (1). I've found some of RJs ideas do in fact work, such as his phone msgs, indicating to me he or someone close to him was field testing frequently. Basically, when they found a winner they deduced that the "Power of NLP" was at work. More likely, he simply defied the norm which is often enough to intrigue women. Also women do tend to find topics he frequently spoke of such as relationships, energy, hypnosis, etc, interesting.

In my opnion, I don't think speed seduction is worth considering. Instead, I would recommend Anthony Robbin's Personal Power series for it's motivational powers (no, not because of "the power of NLP") and apply this to your dating life. Let it motivate you. Louis and Copeland's stuff is also a good launch board, especially for a beginner. A lot fo PUAs have excellent material but this whole notion that all women get hit on dozens of times per day is out of control. Even strippers I dated didn't get hit on 12x a day on an average, non-working day. This must be an LA thing. A lot of what PUAs spit out is half true and illustrates a good point, but is sometimes exagerated.

There is such thing as women who don't hang out in stinky nightclubs trying to cheat on her husband with the coolest 22 year old, geesh! I find that view of the world just as unrealistic as the guy who thinks women are angels and puts them on pedastools. Having said that, Mystery's newbie mission is a good way to get started. These skills come in handy during a LTR because you will be able to swoon her friends and girls love that believe me. Shark is the best instructor for one on one PU, and badboy best explains deep rapport. As far as RJs, he's out of the PU community for good. He really isn't respected in this community anymore.

Just my .02, many will disagree but this is a basic overview.










1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming#Criticism

 

[Hawke]

You do have to admit that half of these guru's are only going to give you so much information, so that way you keep going back to buy more of their material.

NLP, yeah i read some of those studies on it and it's effectiveness in controlled cases. It's pretty much proven to be based on some shaky grounds, even if what some professionals use it for seem to work. For example getting over phobias with NLP seems to work greatly, and all the theories on anchoring are precise.

It just seems a lot of SS is too effected by the individual using it making it very difficult to see if it works or not. Same trouble you get with NLP really; it's an art more than a science it seems. And the very fact that individuals can get varying degrees of success with it makes you think that the key part is, and always will be, the person themselves. Their looks, personalty, confidence, etc.

 

[Consent]

The problem with sosuave is it only works in a hypothetical sense. If you only focus on self-improvement without knowing how to interact with people, it's not successful. There is more to it than just 'being a man'.

 

[head_wall]

I use alot SS and NLP, and IMO, is so invaluable because, the language of innuendo, of suggestion, of imagination is what has been getting women turned on since the begining of time. That's what it is. AT FIRST learning to use it is feels like manipulation, because for some reason, learning to be skilled with language and the flow of language feels foreign to people, so they drop it and move on to something else. PUA, 'attraction', ****y/funny, all that stuff are the fools gold to attaining what women really crave in their lives, which is the emotions they all really want to feel. And every woman is DIFFERENT! Which makes finding out what it is they crave and then GIVING it to them so much fun.

I know alot of people don't want to run pre-thought/memorized patterns, or 'systems' but those are just the training wheels to help your mind learn how to create that kind of language on your own, and then mixing that with what you're learning about the woman in front of you. It's an amazing feeling to see a woman melt in front of you because you've made her FEEL like no man has in a long time. And yes it works, it takes time though. It's not about 'tricking' anyone. You're showing her how to feel really good emotions. If someone is feeling amazing feelings because of you, where's the trickery and manipulation in that?

Yes, I would like to see more discussion of it here because it is really easy to get a woman really turned on with it quickly once you have rapport.

 

[AngelusPUA]

The problem with sosuave is it only works in a hypothetical sense. If you only focus on self-improvement without knowing how to interact with people, it's not successful. There is more to it than just 'being a man'.

Part of being a man is learning to interact with people, also if you become a man of high value your interaction skills increase naturally. All things supplement each other, once you become successful and happy (highly valued man that women desire) you will naturally be able to interact at a higher level.

However interaction is important and the only real way you can learn to interact is experience, not by reading a book on NLP, hypnosis and C+F.

 

[PUA in Training]

I use alot SS and NLP, and IMO, is so invaluable because, the language of innuendo, of suggestion, of imagination is what has been getting women turned on since the begining of time. That's what it is. AT FIRST learning to use it is feels like manipulation, because for some reason, learning to be skilled with language and the flow of language feels foreign to people, so they drop it and move on to something else. PUA, 'attraction', ****y/funny, all that stuff are the fools gold to attaining what women really crave in their lives, which is the emotions they all really want to feel. And every woman is DIFFERENT! Which makes finding out what it is they crave and then GIVING it to them so much fun.

I know alot of people don't want to run pre-thought/memorized patterns, or 'systems' but those are just the training wheels to help your mind learn how to create that kind of language on your own, and then mixing that with what you're learning about the woman in front of you. It's an amazing feeling to see a woman melt in front of you because you've made her FEEL like no man has in a long time. And yes it works, it takes time though. It's not about 'tricking' anyone. You're showing her how to feel really good emotions. If someone is feeling amazing feelings because of you, where's the trickery and manipulation in that?

Yes, I would like to see more discussion of it here because it is really easy to get a woman really turned on with it quickly once you have rapport.

HeadWall, what do you think of what so many guys in this thread are saying about how NLP/SS just doesn't lend itself to LTR's because you never get to the point where you have "programmed" her enough to love you? You can never just relax and be yourself, you have to keep "programming" her for the rest of the relationship because if you relax and be yourself, she is going to figure out that it wasn't you that she loved, but these techniques you used on her? And that's just from guys in this thread who even think it might work as well as RJ says.

Just wondering your take on that side of the argument, since you are a proponent and sound like you have had some success with it.

 

[pooparu]

Here's the thing.

Getting skilled with language could be great through learning NLP, but learning patterns and **** are wrothless. If you want to talk in a mystical tone and use certain speech patterns, go ahead, but the point to learn here is that learning patterns and techniques only cover up a larger weakness. Once you improve as man, then you can talk anyway you want and it will work.

 

[The Truth]

Part of being a man is learning to interact with people, also if you become a man of high value your interaction skills increase naturally. All things supplement each other, once you become successful and happy (highly valued man that women desire) you will naturally be able to interact at a higher level.

Exactly right!

I notice whenever I am contented with myself and my life, this is the time women swarm around me and my social interactions are more relaxed and fun. Usually I get most female attention when I'm in a relationship and stop pursuing women.

You dont have to hit the gym every day or spend your life savings on clothes per se. Just make the most of your life and everything comes together!

 

[everywomanshero]

If no women naturally want a guy there is a reason why, and its not because he doesnt know enough patterns. Approx. 44% of all US people are single., do you suppose the other 66% all used patterns? In most places there is more females than males (86 to 100). Men who have photos receive twice as many responses in online profiles, photos offer a glimpse into ones life is done properly. Women spend a full hour debating a second date, men decide in 15 minutes. Money, not a lack of RJ programming, was found to be the biggest cause of breakup.

I havent read her books, but I saw some paraphrasing of Tannens work which seems really good. I suspect it would help some guys a lot if one needs help learning languaging. I have to admit Ross did come up with some stuff that is geared towards womens interests, but the role NLP itself plays in the function of success is at least suspect to me.

 

[The Truth]

One question I ask myself is if Ross Jeffries (and people like him) are REALLY able to influence people so deeply with just words why aren't people like him employed in the government to write political speeches or sent to negotiate with other countries?

Can you imagine him running his patterns on some war criminal or dictator and putting an end to war? I mean if he can tap into any woman's mind and make her fall in love and want to sleep with someone as disgustingly ugly, geeky and slimy as himself, then world peace doesn't sound like such an impossible task!

 

[PUA in Training]

One question I ask myself is if Ross Jeffries (and people like him) are REALLY able to influence people so deeply with just words why aren't people like him employed in the government to write political speeches or sent to negotiate with other countries?

Can you imagine him running his patterns on some war criminal or dictator and putting an end to war? I mean if he can tap into any woman's mind and make her fall in love and want to sleep with someone as disgustingly ugly, geeky and slimy as himself, then world peace doesn't sound like such an impossible task!

I've seen RJ on a couple daytime talk shows years ago. Naturally he was seen as this disgusting manipulative pig by all the women in the audience. But then I remember one of the shows bringing a woman from the audience for him to demonstrate on, show everyone how it's done. I don't remember what kind of results Ross got with the woman or if he even tried SS on her, because I remember him saying "well its not the same because she knows ahead of time what I'm going to try to do."

What would have been better would be to just send Ross out to bars and clubs with a hidden camera and see what he could do with unsuspecting women. Well, unsuspecting as far as not knowing he was going to try to use mind control on them. But in clubs the better looking the woman, the more bullsh!t she's heard from the best bullsh!tters around. So definitely not unsuspecting in that respect. Does anyone know if he (or any other seduction guru for that matter), has ever taken a challenge like that, and if so how they did?

Even better, send them to strip clubs. Now you're talking women who have heard it all and then some, every fvcking night, from guys who have money. And who could get fired if they're caught giving out their phone number to a customer. Then we'd find out just how good some of these guys are.

 

[Desdinova]

There isn't much interest in SS here because it doesn't work. I have met up with a ton of guys from the community, and I have NEVER seen someone who used Speed Seduction actually pick up chicks.

Wow, this kind of debate brings back memories of the forum

I don't doubt the power of SS, and I believe it works. I was interested in trying it out for a brief time, but I lost interest. It was just a lot of reading, memorizing, and work. I wanted something that was more of a natural feel than an artificial one.

Go ask Destini9 if SS works (http://www.destini9.com). She's pretty pissed off that it DID work on her and is actively trying to dissolve RJ's following. IMO, she's wasting her time since easier stuff has come along since then.

 

[Hawke]

One question I ask myself is if Ross Jeffries (and people like him) are REALLY able to influence people so deeply with just words why aren't people like him employed in the government to write political speeches or sent to negotiate with other countries?

They do have people with their kind of knowledge, as do those in the advertisement business.

 

[##17]

my experience

First of all, I think this is a great thread. That said, let me tell you my experience and my impressions.

I was one of those people who at one time was really into learning SS. I became into it in fall 2002, when I came across it while surfing the Web. At the time, I was suffering a really bad case of One-itis (girl at my gym named Jen, college athlete with an amazing body, we went out on one date then she told me she had a boyfriend that she wanted to stay with). As for my game at the time, I was also a nice guy who had moderate success with girls. But this was mainly because most people would say that I am really good-looking. I could go up to a girl, talk to her about AFC stuff for 5 minutes, and then I would still get her number, mainly because of looks (and that I didn't do anything to screw it up in the 5 minute-conversation). Anyway, I became into SS due to the promises of how powerful it really was. I wanted to use it to win Jen away from her boyfriend.

Did I have some success with SS? Yes. I became a lot more aware of many of a person's internal programs (but not all--read below) and that only helped as far as making connections and influencing people. Did I achieve my original objective, which is to win Jen over? No way. I used all these patterns and pattern-type language with her whenever I ran into her (once every two weeks or so in the gym). No real effect to speak of on Jen. All it seemed to do actually was get her to feel more guarded towards me. You see, she knew what I was up to all along, which is not surprising, because they are rather obvious. I mean, no other guy she knew talked like that. Anyway, things got ugly one evening (just before Thanksgiving 2003) when I tried running a series of patterns--the Instant Connection pattern along with the Daydreams pattern--on her after her workout just outside the gym. That's when she interrupted me and let me know that I had been really making both her and her boyfriend uncomfortable and upset for the past year. She let me know that we could not be friends anymore.

If that's not bad enough, the next year I saw her all the time getting all palsy-walsy with her new circle of guy friends(probably none of whom knew anything about SS, and all of these guys were at best average-looking). They DID seem to bust on her and tease her and she seemed to really respond to it. That really hurt to watch I must admit. I mean, I had all this going for me and I had bought her dinner at one time as well. Yet she seemingly regarded me as a creep while she was so friendly and flirty with these guys who didn't seem to have half as much going for them. (Yeah I guess she and her boyfriend had broken up.)


---------------------------


So this is my take. The problem with using SS alone, as I see it is that it seems to go too much against the natural order of things. A girl hears a male talk like that and she gets suspicious. (I mean, SS followers, what went through your minds when you read those patterns for the first time? Could you imagine saying that sort of stuff to someone who isn't that into you yet? Admit it. And if you really had no problem with it, I bet you had a game *already*.) She suspects that he has an agenda and even if he doesn't, that's not usually what she wants from a guy anyway. (And if you are able to pull it off a la RJ, then you probably have such a strong frame control that you don't *need* SS.) What females really seem to desire is masculinity plain and simple. I've seen hot women with guys who aren't good-looking, who don't have much going for them on paper, who can hardly carry on a conversation either, and who even have problems like a temper, jealousy, ect. What these guys with the hot chicks do have is masculinity. That seems to be what a lot of the leading posters on here have recognized.

 

[PUA in Training]

Did I have some success with SS? Yes. I became a lot more aware of many of a person's internal programs (but not all--read below) and that only helped as far as making connections and influencing people. Did I achieve my original objective, which is to win Jen over? No way. I used all these patterns and pattern-type language with her whenever I ran into her (once every two weeks or so in the gym). No response to speak of from Jen. All it really did was get her to feel more guarded towards me. You see, she knew what I was up to all along, which is not surprising, because they are rather obvious. I mean, no other guy she knew talked like that. Anyway, things got ugly one evening (just before Thanksgiving 2003) when I tried running a series of patterns--the Instant Connection pattern along with the Daydreams pattern on her. That's when she let me know that I was really making both her and her boyfriend uncomfortable and upset. She let me know that we could not be friends anymore.

Thanks for that story 17. My OneItis has heard the best bullsh!t from the best bullsh!tters you could imagine, she was a psych major also. So I think there's a good possibility she would react much the same way to SS that your OneItis did. And that would just kill me (AFC as that makes me sound). I'm starting to see why the "don't bullsh!t her into thinking you have value, actually HAVE value" way of thinking has replaced the NLP/techniques way of thinking on this board.

Not only don't you have to worry about someday being "found out", but you're just a more capable, competent, happier person in general. And the less you NEED women to make you happy, the more attractive you'll be to them (even an AFC like me can at least understand the unattractiveness of desperation). Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. It's been eye-opening.

 

[##17]

Thanks for that story 17. My OneItis has heard the best bullsh!t from the best bullsh!tters you could imagine, she was a psych major also. So I think there's a good possibility she would react much the same way to SS that your OneItis did. And that would just kill me (AFC as that makes me sound). I'm starting to see why the "don't bullsh!t her into thinking you have value, actually HAVE value" way of thinking has replaced the NLP/techniques way of thinking on this board.

Not only don't you have to worry about someday being "found out", but you're just a more capable, competent, happier person in general. And the less you NEED women to make you happy, the more attractive you'll be to them (even an AFC like me can at least understand the unattractiveness of desperation). Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. It's been eye-opening.

Thanks PUA. My story has a happy ending in that I do have a wonderful girlfriend now (not Jen of course). That said, may I give you my advice that I wish someone had given me back in 2002?

--Yep, what you said about having value, all that. Work out. Do well in school/work. Take care of yourself. Make it a point to look good, ect...

--If she is interested, then go for it with her. (You probably already knew this, but remember, there's nothing worse than having a girl you like actually liking you back, but then you being pipped because someone else went for her before you did...)

If you feel resistance from her (but she still talks with you)...

--The first thing is to make it a point for you to be the one to end interactions with your One-Itis from time to time.

--Don't be afraid to break rapport with her. She says something you don't agree with her on, bust and tease her on it.

--A simple body language tip. Putting your hands on your hips (elbows out to your side) signifies dominance.

--If it ever comes up, let her know what you *don't* like and *won't* put up with people.

Of course, the last three are just quick tips. They probably won't change your life in and of itself. But notice how they get her from wondering how she should deflect you while still being nice, to wondering if you still like her...

 

[pooparu]

Actually, when i was into SS and all, I pulled it off without a girl questioning it at all.

LMAO that destini site though, I had to get out of there, she bull****s about SS and all, then re iterates EXACTLY w hat the bible talks about lmao.

 

[##17]

Actually, when i was into SS and all, I pulled it off without a girl questioning it at all.

LMAO that destini site though, I had to get out of there, she bull****s about SS and all, then re iterates EXACTLY w hat the bible talks about lmao.

You did? Good for you. You probably had strong frame control already (and didn't ever need SS).

EDIT: Or you did it with someone whom you just met, who hasn't `decided' that she doesn't want anything to happen. That's different from a One-Itis situation.

 

[Natch]

Wow! I was amazed at how anti SS this board is.

I love SS.
I find it is fcuken awesome, and it is extremely effective.

I use it in situations where
a) I want to fclose and the HB isn't in state yet (ie LMR etc)
b) converting friends to fcukbuddies
c) creating a 'special bond' with someone quickly (ie comfort and trust),
d) preparing straight girls for bisexual experiences ,and
e) to hypnotically fcuk with people who annoy me.

I also use it a little bit for frame control and state management.

This focus of "Just be a normal guy and relate to chicks like a normal guy" is fine , if youre on this site cos youre a skinny dweeb who can't get laid like a normal guy.
But if you want to get laid like a fcuken rock star then you need to start using some **** that's a level up from just taking coworkers out to dinner and a movie and then plying them with cheap Chardonnay.

I would be keen to start a discussion group centring around the intelligent use of SS techniques , and am happy to share what has been working for me.