Kill The Messenger

[Deep Dish]

The other evening I watched the Chris Rock comedy special Kill The Messenger. What I most liked about the performance was the brilliantly clever editing, constantly splicing and juxtaposing Rock in three different locations (Johannesburg, London, and New York) while delivering the same exact routine.

There was one segment which struck me as simultaneously holding the greatest truth and having much more relevance today for men than five or ten years ago. I decided to transcribe the segment, mostly to bask in its humor but also so you guys don't need to track down a copy. Of course, I had to do some editing.

Men and women, so many differences. The biggest difference—one of the biggest differences, men cannot go backwards sexually, women cannot go backwards in lifestyle. Can't fücking do it. The best woman can't do it. Can't do it, can't do it.

Fellas, have you ever been going through some hard times with your woman—you lose your job or something? Your woman tries to console you, saying, "Hey baby, don't worry, we're going to get through this. I know we've got some bills, but if we have to get rid of some of this shït, we will get rid of some of this shït." She's talking about you. Fellas, if you lose your job, you will lose your woman. She may not leave the day you lose it, but the countdown has begun.

Ladies, remember the first time you dated a guy with his own car? Remember that? You were leaving the club, your girlfriends got on the bus, you're like "Bye, bîtches." "I'll see you all later. (I'm getting in his warm ass car.)" From that moment on, you're like, "Hey, you're not getting this püssy without a car. I'm not getting on a bus in February—fück that shît." And that's how you roll for the rest of your life.

Ladies, remember the first time you dated a guy with his own apartment? Remember that? You got in there, you got comfortable, you're like "I can really enjoy getting fücked in here. I can scream, holler, break shît, yell instructions. I will never fück in nobody's momma's house ever again." And you never did.

Ladies, remember the first time you have a guy take you on vacation? "Ooh, this is great!" From that moment on, every guy you dated had to take you somewhere. You let him know as soon as you met him, "Hey, this is passport püssy." "If you think you can handle this püssy in one time zone, you're out of your fücking mind."

Women love to tell you how much better the püssy will be when you get to your destination. "Oh, you got nothing yet. Wait until we get to Jamaica." You get to Jamaica and it's the same püssy you had in Johannesburg." "In London." "In Brooklyn." The only difference now is it has some sand in it. And the crazy thing is, women love to tell you—women have their own money. Women are like, "Hey, if you don't take me on a nice vacation, I'm going to find me a cute guy and I will pay for shït." (But that only lasts for 30 days, because women don't like paying for shït.)

Püssy costs money, dîck is free. Any money you spend on dîck is a bad investment. When it come to women and money, I will tell you right now, nothing dries up a püssy quicker than a woman reaching for her wallet. There's something about a woman reaching for her wallet that just dries up the vagina.

Rock bends his knees, looks down, and uses his hand to illustrate...

It's almost like the wallet is sending a signal to the püssy that this man is not worthy getting wet for. Even later on, when you go to the gynecologist, he says "OMG, you've been paying for shît." "Another $500 and you'll be in menopause."

Women cannot go backwards in lifestyle.

I highly recommend Kill The Messenger. It's a great 80 minute investment of your entertainment quotient.

 

[darkstarrr]

Great read. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jitterbug]

Love it! I'm going to pick up the DVD later.

 

[STR8UP]

I think it's been said before, but comedians are students of life. They tend to be pretty much unplugged from the matrix. Chris Rock just happens to be brilliantly humorous in delivering his take.

And most of this is humorous, but I think it is worth noting that the "lose your job, lose your woman" thing is not only fairly accurate, but pretty scary when you think about it.

We have discussed this before, and I firmly believe that this is one of those things that is hard wired into women to ensure their survival. The noble thing to do would be to ride out the tough times by your man's side, but the reality is that "nature is not noble".

This is why I am so adamantly against the "quality woman" label. Your woman might not leave you at the first sign of adversity, but rest assured she has her limits.

As a man you have a "cash value" on the upside AND the downside. If you marry a woman it's like writing a check for 50% of your sh!t. Can anyone say "HALF EDDIE, I WANT HALF!"

On the other side of the coin, a good chunk of your value as a man is your ability to provide. Or at minimum the prospect of the ability to provide. When you lose your job or business or wealth, your woman might stick with you if she sees the possibility that you will get yourself back on track in short order.

The problem comes when you get kicked off the side of the mountain you were climbing and wind up with wounds that take time to heal. You might fall into depression, or at least lose your confidence for an extended period of time. As soon as you lose your ability to be "the rock" in the relationship, you lose a good chunk of your value in a woman's eyes.

I was recently kicked off the side of that proverbial mountain. Although I didn't have a SO to speak of during this time, it DEFINITELY affected my ability to attract decent women. Sane chicks don't want anything to do with a depressed, downtrodden man. You could be the best looking guy in the world but as soon as they get a whiff of your emotional state, it's sayonara!

Unfortunately I know this from firsthand experience, and it has been two years but I am FINALLY mustering the strength to get out of the hole I dug for myself. And the funny thing is that now I am starting to once again see the momentum build with women.

It is indeed a vicious circle to get caught on the downside of something like this, but at the same time, when you come back you can do so with a vengeance.

Chicks are fickle. If you let them see you sweat you might as well open the door for them cause if the situation is bad enough don't count on her to stick around.

 

[ketostix]

It's like I've been saying when men held the economic advantage and woman held the "pvssy" advantage, things were fair and balanced and it kept women more honest and on their toes. When society gave women economic parity or even advantage it took away balance and what made men attractive to women. It really raised the bar men have to meet and lowered the bar for women.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

^^^^^
,..and the first obstacle you need to overcome is ignoring the MM forum rules about posting your age in order to post here.

 

[ketostix]

ya but we're men, we overcome all obstacles and this obstacle is already overcome. we adapted to the new surroundings and changes in society and developed what people call GAME.

Except it's not a stagnate process. Men develop game, now game is blaise. Women raise the bar, and men have to develop new and better game. It's a never ending cycle unless and until, men take the power disadvantage away from women. Which I think a big one was giving women economic power.

 

[jophil28]

I was recently kicked off the side of that proverbial mountain. Although I didn't have a SO to speak of during this time, it DEFINITELY affected my ability to attract decent women. Sane chicks don't want anything to do with a depressed, downtrodden man. You could be the best looking guy in the world but as soon as they get a whiff of your emotional state, it's sayonara!

You misunderstood what was happening. You got what you created by moping around feeling and looking sad with a low quality woman who had a low investment in you. A quality woman would never eject from an LTR because the money got tight. YOu don't believe in "quality" women because you have never had one. I have had several. The answer is to raise YOUR own standards.
Women do NOT automatically bail when the going get tough .
However, I do agree that if you are not strong and resilient you will be left behind eventually.
BUt who's fault is that?

 

[The Bat]

I have a story to relate to this topic.

I have a friend who we will call Jimmy. Jimmy is a smart guy who was going to school to study chemistry and working in a lab on the side to make money and get experience. His dream was to work as a chemist, eventually get his PhD, and maybe start up a business of chemistry of some kind. Ambitious guy and he was well on his way since his grades were top notch and colleagues at the lab always had good things to say about him and his future.

Jimmy met Jenny along the way. Jenny is what some guys on here would call high quality because she came from a stable family, always coy and quiet, very friendly and always nice, and not a girl that you would think is a crazy party girl or promiscuous girl. Needless to say, Jimmy married Jenny and they lived happily ever after, right?

See, one of Jimmy's hobbies was drawing and call it a "change of heart" but he decided that he would rather draw as an animator or graphic artist or whatever than study chemistry for the rest of his life. He was chasing his dream instead of chasing something that he thought was his dream.

Jimmy wanted to move to Cali to pursue his drawing hobby. That meant that he would have to leave behind his job, school, and the house to go live in some studio apartment working minimum wage jobs while trying to land a nice gig. His wife didn't agree. She thought he should just stick it out with chemistry pathway and this "phase" of him wanting to pursue drawing will be eventually over.

Jimmy wasn't having it. He was depressed that his wife wouldn't support him and would hold him back. Fights ensued. And they separated. She took his car because she needs it to go to her job. While he is left by himself bumming rides from his friends. He moved out to Cali but he couldn't sell the house since it was under his wife's name too and she didn't want him to sell it. He has started accumulating massive debts because he can't afford to live out there. Struggling artist, really.

Last I talked to Jimmy, he still sounded depressed and worried about his current predicament. He still "loved" his wife and couldn't understand why such a "nice, quality" girl like her would not support him and move out there with him.

Last I talked to Jenny, she was upset that he left but wasn't "killing" herself because he made a "bad" decision. As I type this, she is in the process of filing for divorce. Jimmy is fvcked even more now. Meanwhile, Jenny is dating around other men with good jobs and a good future (or so I've heard...obviously she is not confirming it otherwise Jimmy could nail her for cheating in divorce court).

The point of the story is that what "seems" like "quality" might not be quality after all. Besides, quality is relative. What may be low quality to me might be high quality to others.

Guys on this forum might be perceptive enough and strong enough to not let the chicks see them sweat at the first sign of trouble. But guys like us are far and few in between. I know countless chumps in real life who perspire beyond reason when that first rain cloud appears. I always wonder how they are going to survive the coming storm and not to mention the reaction by their girlfriend/wife.

 

[Jitterbug]

Can't say I sympathize with Jimmy there. He made a very poor decision throwing everything away too early to chase that struggling artist dream.

If Jenny were to move interstate to chase some silly dream and asked Jimmy to get rid of his business, uproot & move with her, would any of you tell him that he should do it? If he didn't, would you tell him that he doesn't deserve his Man card for not supporting his wife?

 

[The Bat]

Can't say I sympathize with Jimmy there. He made a very poor decision throwing everything away too early to chase that struggling artist dream.

If Jenny were to move interstate to chase some silly dream and asked Jimmy to get rid of his business, uproot & move with her, would any of you tell him that he should do it? If he didn't, would you tell him that he doesn't deserve his Man card for not supporting his wife?

I would agree with you about him making a "bad" decision but I've known Jimmy for quite some time and he is a smart guy who knows how to work hard and save money. The whole time I knew him, I always had this hunch about him that he didn't really enjoy what he was doing. But as soon as you ask him about drawing, he would get excited and be a totally different high energy person. It's like he almost comes alive whenever he starts talking about his favorite hobby.

I know that the kid has got the brains to make it through his financial situation and I have no doubt that he is going to make it, one way or another. (although I'm not sure if he has the guts to make it...especially now that his wife is about send him the divorce papers) He has the ability to make it and provide for himself while in the process. But couldn't his wife, of all people that he knew, see that?

And if it was the other way around, I would tell him to support his wife, but not necessarily move interstate if he couldn't, no matter what. Isn't that what a good husband does? A quality husband?

So isn't that what a good wife does? A quality wife?

 

[Mr. Me]

Money's important, but living your passions is something money can't buy. Life's too long to be unhappy with it.

Truth is, in hindsight, we see that Jimmy married at the wrong time in his life, But yet, this flushed out the wrong woman to be with. It feels lousy to him now, but it will lead to a happier life for him, like a painful operation leads to a healthier life.

 

[STR8UP]

You misunderstood what was happening. You got what you created by moping around feeling and looking sad with a low quality woman who had a low investment in you. A quality woman would never eject from an LTR because the money got tight. YOu don't believe in "quality" women because you have never had one. I have had several. The answer is to raise YOUR own standards.
Women do NOT automatically bail when the going get tough .
However, I do agree that if you are not strong and resilient you will be left behind eventually.
BUt who's fault is that?

I didn't misunderstand anything. I had the rug pulled out from under me. Within a six month period of time I found out that my best friend from high school was embezzling tens of thousands of dollars from me, the people who were supposed to be buying my business were running it into the ground, and the chick I was seeing left me to marry a dude she met up with at her high school reunion because she was ready to get married and I wasn't, among other things.

I went from basically being "retired" to having to put in 90 hour work weeks to clean up a mess these "business partners" left for me. The 90 hour weeks finally settled down to about 65 hour work weeks, but then my business partner broke his neck in a car accident and I was forced to pull the weight of two people for 6 months.

I was a wreck. I was about THIS close to a complete breakdown. If I had been pushed any more I would have snapped, no doubt about it. This ordeal started 2 1/2 years ago, and it hasn't been but in the past few months that things have improved.

So during this time I had very little free time, and I was on the verge of losing my sanity. I met a few women here and there, but with the state of mind I was in, all I managed to attract were crazy women. Crazy attracts crazy. And of course none of them stuck around, I'm sure at least in part due to the fact that I was barely holding it together.

So don't give me the 'You got what you created by moping around" bit. Most people in my position a year ago would have put a bullet in their head. It was that bad. There was no "pulling myself out of it". It was a situation that had to run its course and now i am stronger for it, but there was nothing I could have done to prevent it.

I also believe that you completely underestimate how profoundly a woman's attraction for a man can be affected by a drastic change in his financial and/or mental state (which tend to be closely entertwined). A good percentage of women will bail on a man who hits a major stumbling block. And I don't blame them....a woman's attraction to a man is based in large part on his masculinity, his ability to LEAD and be STRONG, and his capability to provide and protect. When he loses his empire his sanity AND his woman usually hit the road.

And as I have stated before, I have had what you would call "quality" women. I've seen it all.

 

[Jitterbug]

I think a quality woman should support her husband chasing his dream, but not when it's like this:

Jimmy wanted to move to Cali to pursue his drawing hobby. That meant that he would have to leave behind his job, school, and the house to go live in some studio apartment working minimum wage jobs while trying to land a nice gig.

A dream or just a phase, it was very poorly planned. Couldn't he ease the transition from Mr Chemist to Mr Artist? A quality woman is still just a human being, not a saint. You can't expect her to go down the sh!tter with him.

FWIW, I think my mother is an example of a quality woman. She stuck with my father through thick & thin, after he lost his entire family fortune. But if he threw away his job on a whim to chase some goosy dream placing his family in financial hardship in such an irresponsible way, she'd probably leave him and I wouldn't blame her.

Money's important, but living your passions is something money can't buy. Life's too long to be unhappy with it.

Truth is, in hindsight, we see that Jimmy married at the wrong time in his life, But yet, this flushed out the wrong woman to be with. It feels lousy to him now, but it will lead to a happier life for him, like a painful operation leads to a healthier life.

I agree with Mr Me that Jimmy married at the wrong time and with the wrong woman (if he wants to live his life that way) but it doesn't make her a low quality woman for not following him in that regard.

 

[jophil28]

. It's like he almost comes alive whenever he starts talking about his favorite hobby.

HE made the grand mistake of trying to create a career out of a hobby BEFORE he created a career from his education.
Had he exploited his education, established himself in business and created some commercial value for himself, then he THEN could possible indulge his passion for drawing.
IT was a HOBBY,and as such was not a basis for making life changing decisions, like shipping his marriage interstate.

What would you all say if his wife was developing herself as a respected medical researcher, and then one day she wanted to to leave all that behind to try out for a beach modelling job in CA ?

 

[jophil28]

Jimmy wasn't having it. He was depressed that his wife wouldn't support him and would hold him back. Fights ensued. And they separated. She took his car because she needs it to go to her job. While he is left by himself bumming rides from his friends. He moved out to Cali but he couldn't sell the house since it was under his wife's name too and she didn't want him to sell it. He has started accumulating massive debts because he can't afford to live out there. Struggling artist, really.

If Jenny was my sister I would support her decision.
Jimmy is now reaping the results of a foolish, self indulgent, decision.

 

[The Bat]

Interesting responses.

I will update this story once some good news starts rolling in from Jimmy. Right now, he is working two minimum wage jobs trying to make ends meet. He has looked into landing some gigs but lot of them require experience and/or some type of education in that field.

I was actually thinking about telling him to find a lab type of job for the time being. This would bring him some good money and possibly open up an avenue for him to get education in the art field.

Like I said before, I have trust in him that he will make it one way or another. It's just a matter of time. If I can have this much faith in him, then couldn't his wife have the same or more faith in him?

I can still remember the days when she was completely and madly in love with him. Funny how time has a way of changing people's perceptions.

 

[IronStar]

Nothing should stand between any man & his goals. But you've got to have a plan, you cant go about it on a whim, especially when other people could get caught up if it all heads south. If Jimmy had a clear idea of exactly what he wanted, he could have worked it back and figured out how to get it and sold that to his wife.

If the wife then chose not to buy into that, well then there's a decision to be made.

Sounds like a breakdown in communication, they are both to blame. Maybe if they'd communicated better, they could have found a compromise. But maybe not, sounds like neither was prepared to listen to the other. I kind of get the impression she was looking for an 'out' anyway, sometime around the second he told her something she didnt want to hear.

I can still remember the days when she was completely and madly in love with him. Funny how time has a way of changing people's perceptions.

The hardest lesson I learnt with my divorce was that the only constant in my life was me. Sure, she may be batsh*t head over heels in love with me today, but tommorrow? I could equally be yesterdays news. Thats just how it is.

 

[Colossus]

The problem comes when you get kicked off the side of the mountain you were climbing and wind up with wounds that take time to heal. You might fall into depression, or at least lose your confidence for an extended period of time. As soon as you lose your ability to be "the rock" in the relationship, you lose a good chunk of your value in a woman's eyes.

I was recently kicked off the side of that proverbial mountain. Although I didn't have a SO to speak of during this time, it DEFINITELY affected my ability to attract decent women. Sane chicks don't want anything to do with a depressed, downtrodden man. You could be the best looking guy in the world but as soon as they get a whiff of your emotional state, it's sayonara!

Some good points in this post.

Chris Rock has a way of framing life-truths into hilarious insights; and he is absolutely right about the losing your job thing. Everyone knows it, it's just never explicitly stated.

I'm glad you brought up the point about the vicious cycle of defeat, Str8. This is something I have given a lot of thought to lately.

It's not always easy being a man. You are expected to perform, to get it done, to find a way. But so often we are ALONE in our battles. Yeah, we may have "moral support" here and there, but at the end of the day most battles we fight are fought alone.

I dont think most women understand this aspect of a Man's life. There is a lot of pressure, and little guidance. When we fail, lose a particular battle or get crushed by life, it can be the start of a long, lonely climb back up. Women dont understand this. You may get some consolation, some sympathy, even a helping hand; but sooner or later your woman is going to leave you if you dont get out of that hole. It's up to you, buddy. Dont fvck it up. We all have known these times.

And once you are down there, your value in her eyes is like the sands in an hourglass. Understandably so, if you think about it. No woman wants to be with a man who cant provide.

As for the "Jimmy" story, I think he made a very unwise decision. It's not wrong to pursue your heart, but it is foolish to try and jump into a field where you MUST have contacts, experience, preferably schooling, and a portfolio to succeed. I know this well; I did the art school thing when I was younger.

Jimmy had a good thing going with his chem career. It was stable, respectable, with much room for advancement and prestige. I'm not saying giving it up was wrong, just that his timing was wrong.

As for his wife's decision, this is the same thing just about any modern woman would do. It goes back to the whole 'downgrading lifestyle' thing. They can't do it. I'm sure there is more to the story, but the jist of it is Jimmy's wife left him because of the position he put them in. I dont really think this is what a stong, devoted woman would do to a man she loved. I just dont. Marriage isnt about bliss and a 'better' life. I think that women love getting married, but when sh!t hits the fan not many of them like being married.

So in an objective sense I cant blame her, but in a moral "man-sense" I think it was typical and weak. When the going gets tough, they want out. Fvcking lame if you ask me. If you arent prepared to weather adversity and even bad decisions with your spouse, dont get married.

 

[jophil28]

So in an objective sense I cant blame her, but in a moral "man-sense" I think it was typical and weak. When the going gets tough, they want out. Fvcking lame if you ask me. If you arent prepared to weather adversity and even bad decisions with your spouse, dont get married.

I am going to change sides here.

Usually I take the postion that it is encumbent upon a wife to "stand by her man".
However, if a man are going to assert his just leadership, be dominant and also expect a wife to stay by his side "no matter what ", it is encumbent upon him to make good decisions FOR THE BOTH OF THEM.

JImmy did not.The results prove that.