Keeps bringing up her "new bf" how do I respond?

[DragonBlood]

Hi guys title says it all but detail to follow. I got involved with a coworker until things ended on an argument. I did not apologize and went NC. However during this NC time she has started seeing someone else (the next in line branch swing) who works abroad.


Now that shes started to come out of her shell and initiated contact she goes on about the work projects they do on weeks abroad and drinking at his mothers place??? She hasnt explicitly referred to him as a bf but she is trying to drop the hint even though I havent flirted, Ive been pretty unreactive to be honest. I figured I would have found someone else by now so her behavior has caught me off guard.


My main goal here isnt to 'get' with the girl (although, I wont say no to pump and dump advice), Ive asked out 20+ girls since NC and really dont care anymore. If she was out of my life permanently that would be good. WAY too much drama and it just keeps going. But I find the way she goes on puts anger and knots into my stomach making it difficult to enjoy/finish my lunch at work, which, is embarrassing! Ive been respectful and said nothing on my own girls but I see now that favor is not being returned.


So far she has only thrown these comments out to the group and Ive just ignored it. However, how do I respond to her directly while maintaining my frame/dignity? Because I have voiced no opinion on her or the subject for months I feel like she is trying to get a reaction out of me to see if shes made the right decision or something. Its equally possible that shes bitter and trying to hurt me because I didnt AFC apologize and try to 'patch things up', which would have made things ten times worse when she would of got with this guy anyway.


Here are some suggestions, but Im not sure if its the right way about it

mothers place: "Im sure its more than wine you gargled!"
drinking more: "Did you really drink half a bottle of wine every day abroad? I dont remember needing that much alcohol to seduce you" OR better "Thats too bad Im not into struggling alcoholics"
Or in general "Sarah, we are just friends why do you keep trying to make me jealous with this new bf talk"


I feel like Im in a strong position and have held onto my dignity and friends so far but shes becoming more outlandish about her new bf and adventures with time. I am so done with the BS and feel like ive dodged a bullet. I have to give a response to show I really dont care and to stop bringing it up over lunch, however Im concerned I could just come across 'butt hurt' and stroke her ego. thoughts? I really just want to shift the energy back to her so I can enjoy my lunch guys, any help at all would be appreciated.

 

[GADavid]

Jesus.h.christ do not say any of what you have thought up. You show you "really don't care" (which you do) by not validating her behavior. She knows what she's doing, yet you do not. She is seeking a reaction that you are about to give.

She will stop when her audience stops watching. Stop having lunch with her for the time being.

I also want to add this. You aren't being respectful not mentioning the other girls. You're afraid she'll stop being interested if you talk about having a life outside of her. That's being a nice guy and it does not work. This doesn't mean go talk about the other girls. It means go have lunch with one of them.

 

[DragonBlood]

Jesus.h.christ do not say any of what you have thought up. You show you "really don't care" (which you do) by not validating her behavior. She knows what she's doing, yet you do not. She is seeking a reaction that you are about to give.

She will stop when her audience stops watching. Stop having lunch with her for the time being.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. So ANY reaction is BAD. This is an area I struggle with. Shes experienced and very good at pushing my buttons. Even when Im feeling my game is tight and I have her figured out she somehow finds another way in. Guess whos idea of pursing a relationship was, not mine! I still had eyes for an ex at the time. Im usually aware when she is doing "something", as the post suggests, but I am rarely sure how to process the game/test validation thing quickly/correctly. Is there any articles on dealing with manipulative behavior? This would help me greatly. I would be surprised if she had less than 5-7 partners tbh, shes way too sharp. Its a constant power game with this person. I know shes dated guys from the office before I arrived, then theres this guy, and her old bf and thats all within the past 3 years. Who knows what shes been doing in the last 20, my number is definitely super conservative but it should give you an idea of what I have to deal with. Her claws get into a person very fast.


In this case my question is more so if she brings it up directly "So, DB I was at such and such a place with my bf last night and we got really drunk etc...". I understand to ignore in a group and keep my distance in general, but eventually (1-2 months).. How would you react to a direct confrontation? I guess I could just change the subject or pick out non bf related parts of the subject, but that feels like a cope out or gamey to me. Like Im afraid to validate his existence or in some way consent the idea? I should have a default position or fall back line for this type of comment anyway.

I also want to add this. You aren't being respectful not mentioning the other girls. You're afraid she'll stop being interested if you talk about having a life outside of her. That's being a nice guy and it does not work. This doesn't mean go talk about the other girls. It means go have lunch with one of them.

Thanks David very insightful. I guess there is an element of concern she will lose interest in my reasoning, hmm. Ive dated girls in front of her before so why stop now. One problem with this is that until I can be seen as friendly and flirty with this person its going to be that much harder to date other female co-workers, its a small office so theyre mostly direct friends. Feast or famine you know how it is.

 

[GADavid]

In short, you're getting it. Reactions are something you regret and the word even denotes that she is in control. If you catch yourself about to react, stop. Walk away if you have to.

Her: "So I got drunk at such and such place with bf"

"Oh man, that sounds like fun!" -you heard what she said. That **** does not interest you so talk about something that does. Acknowledged and uninterested. That's no game. Then lead the conversation.

What if she continues and really pushes? "Look, that's not my business. I don't really want to talk about that kind of stuff with you." - it's the truth and the honest way of dealing with it, without looking like a little *****.

Does she continue? She's an immature *****. Kind of sounds like she is already. STOP BEING HER AUDIENCE. Don't say a word. Silence is mature and says a lot more than your emotional words ever will.

Any articles to read? I've not found one that refers to this type of girl directly. I've dealt with her for years though. What I've learned to deal with the manipulation? women lie and everyone is self centered. Know it.

Look at everything as an uninterested third person. Would you say what you're about to if another guy is standing right there?
--------
That's what you want to hear. The truth is, this girl is trying to make you jealous. Don't get excited as in, "yippee, she likes me then!" She sounds like a sociopath in training who likes drama and feeling wanted. You're caught up on her anyway, I get having those claws sunk in deep. You get over her for real and stop the drama by getting with some other girls who aren't like that. But they will lie too. Entertain yourself and take none seriously.

 

[sodbuster]

The FIRST thing you did was wrong. NEVER dip your pen in company ink. She COULD claim Sexual Harassment and get you FIRED. I don't know how good your job is, but it's better than NONE. Aside from that, now you have to sit and listen to her stories.....

 

[sodbuster]

I''d mention a girl you are seeing to a DIFFERENT woman in your office... they love to gossip, it will get back to her.... and see how she deals with it.

 

[DragonBlood]

Look at everything as an uninterested third person. Would you say what you're about to if another guy is standing right there?

Jesus. Sociopath would be accurate. She is never the first to leave the room and is often fawned by 3-5 hands on orbiters from different departments at all times. From what I heard she holds regular "poker nights" with her group of male bffs. Cant say myself or any of my girls have been invited yet though I see now these guys are instant fall backs (like a ladder) for when things dont go her way or an argument irrupts. She straight up asks them to buy her **** and clean her house. I avoid this group like the plague and focus on myself and people of value (male or female).

Shes my easy option not my best option. I still catch feelings for her from time to time between other people but Im under no illusion about whats behind her insecure drama and often childish behavior (a crazy puppeteer). While travelling for work I was blown away by some of the mild and disciplined girls I met that really put this one into perspective. Sadly between my cold approaches and these other girls nothing has connected so it makes it harder to keep a clear head. I have no "true" abundance outside of my mindset and have started to consider a gym membership instead of working out from home as a possibility. The office is stacked in her favour about 5 guys to 1 girl so that enables this behavior further.


Thanks for the specific come backs that clears things up quite a bit. The third person thing is good. I try to ask myself what would James Bond do in this situation as this character has a solid attitude. Dodging around the subject meekly like other guys are a threat and the claws are in seems unlikely so I think some of your comments are bang on.

The FIRST thing you did was wrong. NEVER dip your pen in company ink. She COULD claim Sexual Harassment and get you FIRED. I don't know how good your job is, but it's better than NONE. Aside from that, now you have to sit and listen to her stories.....

I''d mention a girl you are seeing to a DIFFERENT woman in your office... they love to gossip, it will get back to her.... and see how she deals with it.

Yep, your right sod but things seem to be getting better if she is initiating contact and starting to doubt herself. I have dated stable girls from the office casually which would have green-lighted me, but with this one I should have stayed away. The only reason I went with this is because we flirt alot and around the same time I was going through the end of a break up she dropped me "Your so lucky to be surrounded by people who like you, I dont have anyone, not a boyfriend or anybody!" (high pitched voice, wide eyes, over expressive, possible lie). I had declined to pursue her seriously a year or two ago when it was obvious she already had a boyfriend. In hindsight this was just an ego stroke to get what she wanted. There were other guys in the picture all along that she was going to keep but abroad semi-secret. I only found out about it because she is pissed and is sending feelers. So the whole thing is built on top of a lie in the first place. I understand girls play to your ego and guilt all the time, but this one takes it a bit too far, I wonder what this guy abroad would think if he saw what she was up to here and what his relationship is really built on top of? I did not need this headache.

As for mentioning Im seeing other girls at the office without coming across immature, that would require one first

 

[AttackFormation]

PLEASE listen to Mauser96.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

This thread kind of reminded me of something I rad the other day on Black Dragon about this kind of duplicitous talk, but in a slightly different context....

Slightly irrelevant, but some decent point about how the mind works; i.e. attention-seeking, bemoaning, blah blah blah.

Since monogamy doesn’t work, at least one of my FBs on rotation at any given point in time has a boyfriend they’re cheating on by being with me. Usually this is a woman I started having sex with before she met her boyfriend. This circumstance is created one of two ways:

1. While seeing me, she found a new guy and leapt into a “monogamous” relationship with him while still seeing me.
2. A woman LSNFTEed me and much later came back to me while still seeing a new boyfriend she met during her little “break.”

When I spend time with these women, what do you think the primary topic of conversation is? What do you think is the one topic they LOVE to talk about the most? Would you like to take a guess?

Go ahead. I’ll let you think about it for a minute…

…

…

If your guess was “complaining about her boyfriend,” then CONGRATULATIONS, your knowledge of the female species is truly great.

Complaining About The Boyfriend™ is usually the topic of at least 80% of the words that come out of these women’s mouths while they’re with me. Often, it’s what they start talking about as soon as they see me and they keep talking about it when they come over (or when I go over to their place). They briefly stop talking about while we have sex, then as soon as we’re done they start talking about it again. I’m not making a joke and I’m not exaggerating. This is not only common, but the norm with these women.

(By the way, before you scream “friend zone!” or “orbiter!”, remember that I am having sex with these women. No orbiting here.)

As you might imagine, the boyfriend is almost always a beta, though sometimes it’s an Alpha Male 1.0. When it’s a beta, Complaining About The Boyfriend™ is always one or more of the following topics:
•My boyfriend doesn’t listen. Ugh!
•My boyfriend won’t do <certain sexual position> with me. Ugh! Why not?!?
•My boyfriend doesn’t know how to manage his money. Ugh! Can’t he grow up?!?
•My boyfriend wants a wedding with X, Y, and Z, and I don’t want that! That’s stupid!
•My boyfriend hangs out with his friends too much. Ugh!
•My boyfriend is always complaining about <job, friends, family, or other drama>. So irritating!
•My boyfriend bought me some stupid card game for my birthday. “Magic” something. I mean, what is that? Did he think I would like that?!?
•We got in this big argument last week about <stupid irrelevant topic>. He just doesn’t listen!

When the boyfriend is an Alpha 1.0, it’s the exact same *****ing and complaining only with slightly different topics, such as:
•I think my boyfriend is cheating on me! I checked his PHONE / Facebook / email / whatever the other day and saw <blah blah blah>. Oh my god I. Will. Kill. Him. (Note the absence of any irony whatsoever regarding the fact that as she’s complaining about this, she’s cheating on him.)
•I think my boyfriend is talking to his ex! WTF?!? That’s so disrespectful! (Again, no irony.)
•I hate it when my boyfriend looks through MY PHONE. I had to put your number under a girl’s name. Ugh! So dumb!
•My boyfriend got pissed off at me when I talked to my guy friend the other day. Doesn’t he know I’ve known him since we were in high school?!?
•My boyfriend makes me do X, Y, and Z. Ugh! You never made me do that.
•We got in this big argument last week about <stupid irrelevant topic>. He’s such an *******!

On and on this goes, almost non-stop. It really is fascinating, though it’s not that I care. FBs can talk about whatever they want with me as long as they have sex and don’t give me drama. Per my definition of drama, Complaining About The Boyfriend™ isn’t drama, since the negativity isn’t directed at me. ***** about whatever you like, Darling. While you’re talking, here, let me help you take your shirt off…

Just to pre-empt a question I see coming: A woman cannot be a MLTR with me if she already has a boyfriend. My MLTRs can have sex with other men, date other men, even have feelings for other men. However if she chooses to be in a “monogamous” relationship with one, she cannot be anything to me more than a FB. That’s because having a “monogamous” boyfriend fundamentally limits the expression within the relationship, and more importantly is a huge source of potential drama for me, which is, of course, unacceptable. So she can have a boyfriend; totally cool with me; but that means she’ll be stuck at the FB level.

Back to the point. Here’s the interesting thing about all this Complaining About The Boyfriend™, at least to me. Like all women, these women know they can instantly snap their fingers, dump their boyfriend, and go get a new one. Even average-looking women can do this and know it. (Hell, even slightly below-average women can do this!) Yet they don’t do it. They ***** and complain about all the drama yet stay in the relationship anyway.

One reason they do this is because they get all the usual ass-kissing beta-boyfriend behaviours women love (from boyfriend) while still maintaining a connection to confident, outcome independent, masculine Alpha sex and energy (from me). It’s the best of both worlds for a woman, at least from a feminine point of view.

The other reason, the bigger one, is that women love drama. I can easily tell that as women Complain About The Boyfriend™, while they look frustrated and exasperated, they’re actually loving every minute of it. They love the emotional high of the relationship drama, almost to the point of addiction.

Of course they say they hate it and they say it bothers them, but that doesn’t mean anything in woman-language. One of the cardinal rules you must always follow, at least in a dating context, is you must ignore what a woman says and only pay attention to what she does. If a woman is constantly complaining about a boyfriend but stays with him for months on end anyway, then she likes it. She likes Complaining About The Boyfriend™ and likes having that kind of drama in her life. If she dumped the guy she would eliminate all that drama…but she wants the drama, so she keeps him around.

I’ve talked about women who are hard core serial monogamists, who date a new boyfriend for just a few months and quickly dump him the instant they start getting a little bored. Then within a week or two they have a new temporary monogamous boyfriend and repeat the cycle. However, the women who spend their time Complaining About The Boyfriend™ are the exact opposite. Oh, they’re still serial monogamists just like women are biologically designed to be, but instead of insta-dumping the boyfriend as soon as they start getting bored, these women instead ride out the boyfriend-drama for a long, long time, soaking it all up like a sponge, loving every minute of it.

I find it utterly fascinating. It’s so alien to how I think or behave. I soft next women the instant they give me any drama. These women instead see drama, nosedive right into it, and swim around in it almost daily for months, if not years on end. It boggles the imagination.

Of course to be fair, there are drama-loving MEN like this too; men who are hopelessly addicted to high-emotion, high-drama relationships to high-drama *****es, constantly complaining about it but secretly craving it, and never dumping them. But that’s a topic for another day.

Just remember all of this whenever a woman says “I hate drama!”

Uh, no you don’t, sweetie.


I agree with the others though, it doesn't really seem like you're getting much (anything) out of being in contact with this broad.

You can sleep soundly at night knowing that this new guy doesn't satiate her entirely, otherwise she wouldn't be contacting you at all.

Hard NEXT.

 

[DragonBlood]

Thanks Mauser96 I needed that. As I said in my first post if she was out of my life permanently I would feel good about it. And the weeks I was travelling and meeting other women I felt AMAZING and good about myself to be free of this person.


The problem is now that Im back at work and into my regular routine its not possible to avoid her, and if this is the game she is playing Im sure she will make herself very visible. I was showing SOME of the BS I have to put up with as this is my first experience then with a NPD/BPD. Dont get me started on the drugs, drink and tattoos from childhood Did I mention she LOVES reading psychology books? Its one of her favorites and has nothing to do with work. uh oh.


I gave her games the benefit of the doubt initially because she had stable bf (who I never met once) but at this point she has become a joke. Ive managed to cut down exposure to twice a week over lunch with the group but thats as low as I can really go. So here are my questions.


1. How do I recognize when she is trying to manipulate me? A big question but are there any typical triggers to be aware of?

2. If I continue to be aloof, friendly and distant while she has started to initiate, what kind of behavior can I expect in the future from a NPD/BPD and why? I know this will protect my emotions and dignity but Im sure it will cause a negative impact as well.

3. My social circle is poor as far as girls are concerned and none of my friends really hit the bars. My plan is to increase exposure to other women such as at the gym but I am open to advice on where to meet people outside of the bar/club. My day game is solid but thats total number game, nothing reliable comes from that alone.

4. Is there really no way to game a BPD? Even for your own stability? Ive read a lot of threads that suggest this is not possible but at the same time a women is a women.


Now that Im back at the office all the old BS is starting to creep back in and become a distraction. I want to build a mental fortress against this person to help weather the drama and manipulate maneuvers. Declaw as much as possible and know what is to come. But I really dont have enough experience with this kind of person to cover any future mistakes which concerns me quite a bit tbh. I feel like if I understood her games almost all her allure would evaporate, as others have pointed out, she really doesnt have much to offer beyond this. Im definitely in the mood for some heavy reading/schooling to help check myself and prevent future problems.

 

[christoff522]

Thanks Mauser96 I needed that. As I said in my first post if she was out of my life permanently I would feel good about it. And the weeks I was travelling and meeting other women I felt AMAZING and good about myself to be free of this person.


The problem is now that Im back at work and into my regular routine its not possible to avoid her, and if this is the game she is playing Im sure she will make herself very visible. I was showing SOME of the BS I have to put up with as this is my first experience then with a NPD/BPD. Dont get me started on the drugs, drink and tattoos from childhood Did I mention she LOVES reading psychology books? Its one of her favorites and has nothing to do with work. uh oh.


I gave her games the benefit of the doubt initially because she had stable bf (who I never met once) but at this point she has become a joke. Ive managed to cut down exposure to twice a week over lunch with the group but thats as low as I can really go. So here are my questions.


1. How do I recognize when she is trying to manipulate me? A big question but are there any typical triggers to be aware of?

2. If I continue to be aloof, friendly and distant while she has started to initiate, what kind of behavior can I expect in the future from a NPD/BPD and why? I know this will protect my emotions and dignity but Im sure it will cause a negative impact as well.

3. My social circle is poor as far as girls are concerned and none of my friends really hit the bars. My plan is to increase exposure to other women such as at the gym but I am open to advice on where to meet people outside of the bar/club. My day game is solid but thats total number game, nothing reliable comes from that alone.

4. Is there really no way to game a BPD? Even for your own stability? Ive read a lot of threads that suggest this is not possible but at the same time a women is a women.


Now that Im back at the office all the old BS is starting to creep back in and become a distraction. I want to build a mental fortress against this person to help weather the drama and manipulate maneuvers. Declaw as much as possible and know what is to come. But I really dont have enough experience with this kind of person to cover any future mistakes which concerns me quite a bit tbh. I feel like if I understood her games almost all her allure would evaporate, as others have pointed out, she really doesnt have much to offer beyond this. Im definitely in the mood for some heavy reading/schooling to help check myself and prevent future problems.

You absolutely are loving this. :yes:

 

[DragonBlood]

well yeah christoff, of course I am on some level, Ive never met a legit BPD before and they easily have the longest threads on SS. I dont see any point avoiding the issue and suffering sleepless nights in silence, when I could beat them at their own game or at least break even. Its was fun for a while but the overall experience is turning sour. The questions relate to areas I need to improve on (e.g. social circles).

However I now recognize the dangers to myself as time progresses and that if I understood the behavior properly my interest would drop rapidly. There is no substance behind this person compared to other girls. From my point of view BPD is just an extreme case of behavior you find in all women in lesser extents, so understanding BPD dynamics and what shes trying to do would tighten my game exponentially.

Ive known this person for 2+ years but Im starting to move slowly into reverse now that there isnt really any "benefit of doubt" remaining from being in a pre-existing relationship when I met her. I want to avoid this type of women and be able to call them outright in the future and find something better.

Im also equally concerned about the times Im being manipulated and not even seeing it until much later. She keeps finding new angles to attack me from that I didnt even know existed (as Mauser says they thrive on that). Theres been occasions where shes managed to turn my guy friends against me for awhile as well (until they see it) and try to damage my reputation. Now THAT has to stop happening instantly.

Being sociable, confident and having a good sense of humour and just having a good time has gained me a lot of friends and inadvertently turned the attention away from her, I get the feeling she was number one in terms of attention before I came along. I dont think shes mad about it or something like that but it does mean I am exposed to a lot (almost ALL) of her BS by association. That obviously results in alot of gossiping on her part about me which is usually negative stuff that slowly finds its ways back to me. Did I mention something about a power struggle somewhere when I talk to this girl? I think I did.

Even today Im trying to organise a bowling/drinking night with the office for one of my buds who is leaving soon. Sadly it clashes with some work event for Sarah and afew of the girls so shes insistent I move it to suit her instead of my friend who has to travel. Nope! Doubt she would come either way.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

4. Is there really no way to game a BPD? Even for your own stability? Ive read a lot of threads that suggest this is not possible but at the same time a women is a women.

It's not that you can't play them, it's just that their agenda is completely different to others. You may go through months of thinking that you have their attention and are 'playing it right'. But then one day something happens and you realise they were never really that bothered about you as a person, more that you were there to prop up their fragile sense of worth.

Women are women. Most will manipulate to get their own way, or to get what they want. However, the more dangerous BPDs will manipulate to make you seem small or sh!tty, and consequently them seem big and better. Trust me, it really works in some extreme cases.

Be very careful. And heed the advice; get away from this one as soon as possible. There is no excuse for 'having to see her a couple of times a week at work' - that's your subconscious making excuses for your emotions. You don't have to see anyone if you really don't want to.

 

[DragonBlood]

But then one day something happens and you realise they were never really that bothered about you as a person, more that you were there to prop up their fragile sense of worth.

Ok this is what Im looking for, because she pretty much starting seeing the other guy the day after the argument instead of making any attempts to communicate or attempts to judge my reaction which came as a huge shock. Its starting to make more sense already. But how can a BPD be so disconnected from the world to be "not bothered" by anyone??? And also, dont all women only stay with you because of your sense of worth?

I understand where your coming from on emotional reasoning, but the fact is we go to lunch as a group and I cant stop her from coming. Its not that Im seeing HER, its that im seeing EVERYONE. By cutting her down Im also cutting my friends at work down. Ive found maintaining exposure and connections is the best way to prevent a BPD making themselves sound bigger in my total absence and warming over my friends.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

How can a BPD be so disconnected from the world to be "not bothered" by anyone???

Any number of reasons. Usually I find it's a result of an unstable upbringing; the worse the upbringing, the more 'disordered' the adult is. The more they had to fend for themselves (or others) early on, the more disconnected from others they generally are.

And also, dont all women only stay with you because of your sense of worth?

This is partly true. But 'normal' women simply look at a man's sense of worth in himself as a demonstration of his worth.

A BPD will look at the man's sense of worth in the same way as a 'normal' woman; however, they will also milk that sense of worth to prop their own sense of self worth. This is usually a subconscious thing, rather than a rational conscious decision; very rarely do people consciously take advantage of others. It just happens as a result of subconscious transference or projection.

I understand where your coming from on emotional reasoning, but the fact is we go to lunch as a group and I cant stop her from coming. By cutting her down Im also cutting my friends at work down. Ive found maintaining exposure and connections is the best way to prevent a BPD making themselves sound bigger in my total absence and warming over my friends.

Do what you need to do man. Personally I would distance myself. Your true 'friends' will be there for you regardless; in fact if you distance yourself a bit, you may find out who your real friends actually are. I find a lot of 'friends' at work are more like 'situational acquaintances' these days.

 

[The_411]

Thanks Mauser96 I needed that. As I said in my first post if she was out of my life permanently I would feel good about it. And the weeks I was travelling and meeting other women I felt AMAZING and good about myself to be free of this person.


The problem is now that Im back at work and into my regular routine its not possible to avoid her, and if this is the game she is playing Im sure she will make herself very visible. I was showing SOME of the BS I have to put up with as this is my first experience then with a NPD/BPD. Dont get me started on the drugs, drink and tattoos from childhood Did I mention she LOVES reading psychology books? Its one of her favorites and has nothing to do with work. uh oh.


I gave her games the benefit of the doubt initially because she had stable bf (who I never met once) but at this point she has become a joke. Ive managed to cut down exposure to twice a week over lunch with the group but thats as low as I can really go. So here are my questions.


1. How do I recognize when she is trying to manipulate me? A big question but are there any typical triggers to be aware of? Assume everything she does is to try to manipulate you. That doesn't mean act paranoid it means you need to be on your guard with her at all times.

2. If I continue to be aloof, friendly and distant while she has started to initiate, what kind of behavior can I expect in the future from a NPD/BPD and why? I know this will protect my emotions and dignity but Im sure it will cause a negative impact as well. That's the problem with mentally ill women the push pull dance is what they love and why they respond to narcissists and other sociopaths because they don't care either. The best way to be polite and do not engage and hopefully she'll get more interested in someone else.



3. My social circle is poor as far as girls are concerned and none of my friends really hit the bars. My plan is to increase exposure to other women such as at the gym but I am open to advice on where to meet people outside of the bar/club. My day game is solid but thats total number game, nothing reliable comes from that alone. Do things you love with other people. If you like fishing find a fishing group even if it is all guys. Learn to dance, social with your neighbors, try to not distill every interaction into one where you are trying to hook up and look instead to be a connector for others.

4. Is there really no way to game a BPD? Even for your own stability? Ive read a lot of threads that suggest this is not possible but at the same time a women is a women. Unless you are NPD or some other PD you can't really game them. Even then it's not gaming but rather two soulless people trying to manipulate each other


Now that Im back at the office all the old BS is starting to creep back in and become a distraction. I want to build a mental fortress against this person to help weather the drama and manipulate maneuvers. Declaw as much as possible and know what is to come. But I really dont have enough experience with this kind of person to cover any future mistakes which concerns me quite a bit tbh. I feel like if I understood her games almost all her allure would evaporate, as others have pointed out, she really doesnt have much to offer beyond this. Im definitely in the mood for some heavy reading/schooling to help check myself and prevent future problems. Unfortunately the only way to protect yourself is to stay away and document. Documenting may save yourself from a a bogus sexual harassment suit and may save you from getting fired.

See above

 

[annabanana19]

Honestly, she sounds pretty insecure if she needs to constantly allude to the fact that she's dating someone new. 8th grade, anyone?

 

[DragonBlood]

OK CHANGE OF TACTICS

There is some very good info since I last checked this thread thanks guys. I will read it in full and reply back but I wanted to post on my most recent interaction with this girl.

So this person tagged along for lunch. I proceeded to ignore her and talk to one of the other girls. However when we sit down BPD puts herself on the edge seat of the table so she can sit directly beside me and interrupt any conversation with this other person. There was plenty of other places to sit beside her office mates.

Im feeling understandably anxious so I let out an audible sigh and ask how she is. She says Im fine and before she can open up a conversation I turn away and talk to the guys for the rest of lunch. She talks to the other girl.

During a natural break in the conversation BPD decides to ask me how was my work trip (I havent given much details on it), I decide to somewhat blow off the question by telling a funny story to the whole group relating to the trip. This gets a few laughs but she puts her head down and blushes with a big smile. She then opens a new conversation telling me her sister had a baby recently. I just say "Well thats good news, congratulations" and ignore her.


Not a word on her new bf or multiple trips whatsoever. zilch. Not even to the other person which I could of overheard. This is the first time we have spoken directly in about three months. She probably figured I wasnt coming back, I was happy actually. Instead of bragging about her trips aboard and insinuating how great this new guy is, she now puts herself directly into my physical space, wants to know details about my trip and opens the topic of children. It doesnt help that shes easily HB8-9 and puts a lot of focus onto exercise.


This isnt easy guys. I felt nauseous and was unable to finish my lunch and just took the rest back to the office, but additionally I felt that I started to doubt myself. She was gentle and acting like an ass kisser. I felt depressed and distracted most of the day. Its only when I snapped myself out of it and say "Get a hold of yourself DB, you have a great party planned with the guys Monday and realistically you wont even see this person until at least Tuesday (5 days), dont sweat it and focus on your work". Then as if magically my stomach started to grumble and I savaged my lunch.


Its only after my workout today Im thinking more clearly. I decided to work from home today I dont think I will go to lunch until at least Thursday instead of Tuesday to give me more time to internalize the new posts.

 

[DragonBlood]

So, what I understand about BPD is they have abandonment (pull) and commitment (push) issues, possibly based on abusive relationships with their parents.

It seems to be more about "yearning" love (to mimic past abusive relationships) and acceptance rather than actually being comfortable achieving acceptance when it comes to BPD. The fact that they have many repressed emotions means that without the drama hit they actually feel lifeless and are forced to examine their own internal issues.

One interesting article "How to train your Borderline" suggests that this person is not emotionally fully developed having a mentally similar to that of a child. And the only way to maintain a relationship with such a person is basically to treat them like a child instead of an adult, be ready to withdraw attention and acceptance when they behave badly and always walk away from drama. Essentially you reward good behavior to keep your BPD on their best behavior at all times. Its only when you let your guard down and they feel they have "caught you" that things start going south.

Alot of the articles also suggest a BPD never feels shame in their actions and that everything is their partners fault. I agree with this to a point actually. If you treat a child like an adult and give them a lot of responsibility and trust who is really at fault here? Of course, there is serious self-esteem issues with someone who hasnt examined their own issues as an adult, but I think there is definitely some truth in this.




From my own situation Ive tried to examine where things went wrong and also not take on the full responsibility which is a pretty common mistake when dealing with BPD. They are the victims naturally.

I knew this other guy co-worker for a while when he was briefly attached to my department before moving back abroad. To be honest he was not DJ and I hugely suspected he suffered from low self-esteem. He would focus ALL (and I mean ALL) his attention onto the girls being as hands on as possible and in the brief times when it was just the guys would brag about being a massive player and his "love to party" instead of working which came across insecure. Eventually he convinced a BBW 7 who had a boyfriend to go on a "just friends" date to the movies with him. He then proceeded to follow her around like a man servant, bring up their connection nervously and was falling fast. I was dating HB7 girl in the office who was actually single (and I am still good friends with) and never took his BS seriously. His energy was HORRIBLE, contently chasing crumbs all over the place. As a man I had no respect for him whatsoever, he is to us what a wh0re is to women. Obviously however all this intense attention and chasing had an effect on the HB8-9 BPD.

Time moves on and I get in a LMR argument with BPD literally on the day she has to travel abroad for work. Unbeknownst to me at the time this other co-worker had stayed in email contact with BPD and made sure to also attend the same work event and even collaborate on a small project, basically got her to review his work to legitimize his reason to attend. BPD being in a vulnerable state probably opened massively up to this guy while he sarged to an easy lay (or it was given to him) while coming across sincere. This opens a huge unexplained rift between myself and BPD when shes back as she already told me there was "no one else in the picture", so I just went NC until she cooled off.

However, now, party guys doenst party, instead he "loves to work" on lots of collaboration projects with his HB8 BPD sort of girlfriend who has been introduced to his mother. This would then be a LDR mini-relationship thing. BPD admits that the whole time she was there she would drink ALOT each day and was worried about becoming an alcoholic, so her inhibitions would have been very low throughout. Ive never had to intoxicate a women for an entire trip or keep her coming back by WORKING with her?? It would not surprise me at all if this party guy is catching feelings fast if hes settling for a somewhat serious LDR and tedium of new collaborations for BPD to nibble on. Now that BPD babe is back bragging and only alluding to the fact (not official item) shes been up to no good but realises I do not give a **** she has started to become blushy, reactive and ass kissery and curious about my own trips abroad (guilt projection?).

At this point and with all the knowledge I have I am feeling alot stronger. Now that I understand what is really behind a BPD Im feeling far more stable and less invested in "the mystery" (basically it was insecurity mixed with trust issues), so I have a couple of decisions to make. Even if I choose to pursue this girl and she swears to break off her little fling for another chance... the fact that she is in the middle of collaboration projects means his hooks and emails stay with her and he keeps creeping up every so often. Regardless of how well things might be going here I could not trust BPD abroad in this situation AT ALL. This is a serious nuisance problem that is put out of my control. Even though I might have aided BPD with a vulnerable state something would have happened here eventually anyway, she would probably just have been more covert about it. Im sure eventually left to her own devices spending many nights alone she would probably go back to an ex here if no progress is made with me. Defacto cheating on her sort of boyfriend abroad.


option 1
At the end of the day, if she respected me there wouldnt be any other guys in the picture and she would have talked to me much sooner. There is no excuse big enough for her whorish behavior and lying, and even though I dont have access to other HB8-9s right now I should cut my losses and leave her yearning until interest is lost on both sides.

option 2
I feel like shes quickly entering buyers remorse and wants to know if I am willing to hang around while she makes up her mind, however I seriously doubt she would commit exclusive to either of us anyway. If she expects me to pursue this any further instead of waiting for a healthier women to pop up she would have to quit her job (dropping all orbiters and flings) or make some other kind of grand life altering gesture to regain my trust. no exceptions. I cannot reward bad behavior by becoming an easy lay and should push for something more substantial or be willing to walk. Im fairly certain I could convince her to take a 3 month career break as she is feeling fear of losing me 100% for the first time in 3 years. This would severe all technical ties to the email leech but also inadvertently move things forward way too fast with BPD who will run on a super high.


Im not sure which option I will take if I was being completely honest. But I have a far deeper understanding of what a BPD is, why they feed on your insecurities and vie for control etc, and even putting my focus down to two clear targets will help clear my mind instead of wondering how to manage the whole scenario reactively day by day.


Where is Brad80s thread?

Thanks guys, that was a hell of lot of reading and some of the articles cross over but I found these the most useful:

http://gettinbetter.com/obsessed.html

http://gettinbetter.com/dragon.html

http://gettinbetter.com/key.html

http://gettinbetter.com/addiction.html

http://www.sharischreiber.com/dance.html