Kanye West is an ass.

[Derek Flint]

Originally posted by backbreaker
I am not talking about food.

I am not takling about resuing people, as much I am reffering to the national guard.

There should never, under any circumstances, a situtation where there are citizens going around scaring people in broad dayligh with Shotguns and getting away with it.

That's the national guard.

Also, you make a good case about FEMA, but I am not talking about Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, right after the s torm. I am talking about Wednesday-Friday/Saturday, when it was ovbious to anyone that something had to be done. When the Mayor was on tV pleding for help

While the Mayor was pleading for help, the Red Cross and National Guard were sitting there waiting, but could not be mobilized until the Governor says so.

They can't go in until the Governor, not the Federal Government says so.

The Red Cross and Guard were there, but Governor Blanco didn't want them in there because she thought it would prevent people from evacuating.

Read it for your self:

Update: Red Cross Says "We Were Kept From Superdome By State"

September 7, 2005 7:01 p.m. EST

Douglas Maher - All Headline News Staff Reporter

Washington, D.C. (AHN) - A report on Fox News from correspondent Major Garrett Wednesday night reveals a major break into what exactly went wrong at the Louisiana Superdome in the days after Hurricane Katrina struck the city.

An American Red Cross representative tells Fox News that the Louisiana State Homeland Security Department refused the relief organization permission to take food and water to the Superdome because they did not want to "encourage people to go there."

They State office of Homeland Security wanted to get people out and were afraid that providing support would be a "magnet" attracting more displaced citizens of New Orleans.

Stay with All Headline News for more on this developing aspect of the Hurricane Katrina Relief.

Video report here:

http://media.putfile.com/mgarrett0907

 

[Derek Flint]

Straight from the Red Cross web site:


Disaster FAQs

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

* Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

* The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

* The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

* The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

* The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

* The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

* As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.

The National Guard and the State of LA Homeland Security takes their orders from the Governor of LA



The reasons why the Red Cross was not allowed access is listed above.

Because of State and Local authorities are not allowing them access.


Source: http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

 

[backbreaker]

That doesn't say that they prevented people from helping. That says that they prevented people from helping people in the superdome, which makes all too much sense.

YOu Didn't want people going to the superdome. it was chaos and mad, described by everyone that left there. You don't want to make it worse.

There was another Convention Center however. And I will say that from that standpoint it is understandable and I have never ****ted the goverment for not going into the superdome, because then more people would show up.

But that doesn't refute the fact that the Air Force couldn't have dropped food to people in need. We do it in other countries all the time.

No matter how hard you try, you can't convince me that 40 years ago we could go into Vietiam and save people in the middle of a war ground, but today we can't send SOMEONE, ANYONE from a stranded house that has been flooded. FEMA doesn't have tanks and they aren't the people who need to do that. That's the national guards responsibility.


Like I said, yes the local and state goverment could have handled it alot better by doing a little better critical thinking. But ONCE it happened and the people were stranded, it's nto the time to play "told you so" and when thousands, possibly 10s of the thousands of lifes are at stake, it's not the time for political footsie.

 

[Derek Flint]

It's the Governors call.

The Federal Government can't just come in and start dropping food and supplies unless she gives them the OK, which she capitulated on.

Constitutionally, it would have been illegal for the federal government to do so.

Again, people need to understand how things work.

Just who was supposed to start dropping in food and water?

The Air Force? Not unless the Governor allows it, which she waited on.

And, could you imagine the riot that would have ensued had they just started dropping in food and water without some kind of plan?

You simply can't just order up the Air Force or any other Federal agency to just start dropping in supplies.

And, you want the Air Force to drop in supplies, but you don't want them to do so for the people inside the Dome?

What kind of logic is that?

That's where most of the people who needed it where, yet the Governor is preventing that.

Did not feeding those people and giving them water and medicine make the situation better or worse?

 

[K B]

And as long as I'm black... old Caucasian women will still feel the need to clutch their purses, no matter what I'm wearing (I've seen women do it when I'm in a suit).

I will agree with you, walking by someone and having them clutch their purse is both insulting and embarassing. But having someone publicly yell racist rants is just plain wrong!

I had to chime in here. I hear this ALL THE TIME from blacks. ALL THE TIME!!! This is like their FAVORITE example of "racism."

This is for antichrist-star and all you "bruthas" out there that love to whine about this and think you are actually on to something...that doesn't mean SH!T! Look man, I am WHITE, and have gotten the same reaction from "little old ladies" and young women as well. It is NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE BLACK...it is because you are a STRANGE (at least to them) MAN. A MAN who is typically TWICE as strong as they are and can be easily overpowered by a MAN at anytime. So all of you blacks need to SHUT UP when some lady "clutches" her purse.

The next one is "profiling" or what blacks call "DWB," or "driving while black." Both of these examples are getting tired and they just reek of STUPIDITY.

When there is a police bulletin to be on the lookout for a stolen Chysler 300 that is driven by a BLACK MALE, just WHO are they supposed to stop? The red-headed kid with frekles that is driving his Ford F-150? No, you follow the BLACK MAN (which just so happens to be the same color as the car thief) that can't be seen through the black out windows on the Chyrsler 300.
And besides, I have been stopped NUMEROUS TIMES for so-called "license checks" and NOT ONCE have I gotten my panties all in a bunch...I was actually relieved I wasn't doing anything against the law. The fact is, IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL, THEN THEY CAN"T TOUCH YOU!!! That is why we have LAWYERS, and I am sure that Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, and just about every outlet of the news media would LOVE to get involved with the story of a black man being falsely accused by the "big bad white man." So JUST SHUT THE FUKK UP ABOUT IT.

One last thing: I worked at a record store years ago, and I want ALL OF YOU to do something for me...I want ANY of you to ask ANY BLACK PERSON what they think of Elvis Presely. I will GUARANTEE that 9 out of 10 will blurt out how he "stole" music from the black man.

Blacks must really be ASHAMED of their skin color, because it seems that it is ALWAYS their skin color's fault.

 

[backbreaker]

why do we keep s aying that bush isn't a rasist, but a Classist, but people like you keep saying that we are saying that he is racist?

I do not think Bush is a rasist.

Frankly I don't give a damn if a woman clutches her purse around me. I have too much crap to worry about or think about in a normal day then to give a damn.

Hell, I automatically think all white people i meet have money until proven otherwise... Does that make me racist? No.

To answer your question Derek Flint, the superdome was being taken care of... at least I am under the presumption that it was.

If it wasn't, then yes the air force should have went in, someone should have went in and got them out... But from what I understand, and I may be wrong, is that by wednesday/thursday these people were being taken to the Astrodome


It may very well be illegal to go in without the goverment's permission. But it is also illegal to steal food and water from stores, but you do it when lives are at stake.

No matter how much you try to make the arguement, the "The goverment didn't let me do it so I didn't save thousands of people's lifes" arguement isn't giong to fly, not to me because I udnerstand it, but to the millions of people who have been effected by this.

you don't let possibly tens of thousands of people die on a technicality.

 

[naoi deag se deag]

Originally posted by K B
One last thing: I worked at a record store years ago, and I want ALL OF YOU to do something for me...I want ANY of you to ask ANY BLACK PERSON what they think of Elvis Presely. I will GUARANTEE that 9 out of 10 will blurt out how he "stole" music from the black man.

Tangent!

I watched a show on Channel 4 here in the UK last year talking about the Scottish Gaelic roots of black gospel music in America. The presenter went and talked to some preacher who has done a gospel hour on TV channels in the Appalachians for 40 years. He was very adamant that African slaves came up with the style of music... until he heard the recordings of Scottish hymns. He then was very ready to admit that those hymns could have inspired black gospel music. Later in the program, a congregation from the Western Isles (where they still hold services in Scottish) visited a church in Mississippi and everyone they interviewed there agreed with the presenter's hypothesis.

So I'm not sure I believe you when you say 90% of blacks would say that, if you presented an opposing viewpoint with evidence to back it up. I personally think Elvis stole musical ideas from the black man, too... but maybe he really stole from the Scots?

 

[backbreaker]

Elvis didn't steal anything from anyone. Elivis grew up around black people, and played the music he was rasied around. Youd on't have to get a patten to play a certain type of music. Even if he did, that is irrelevant to this arguement.

 

[K B]

Hell, I automatically think all white people i meet have money until proven otherwise... Does that make me racist? No.

YES, IT DOES. That is PRECISELY WHY there are NO COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS SPECIFICALLY FOR POOR WHITE PEOPLE. What if I were to make the assuption that all black people can play basketball until proven otherwise? Would you feel like you were "offended?" You might not, but I guarantee most other blacks would scream "racism."

So I'm not sure I believe you when you say 90% of blacks would say that, if you presented an opposing viewpoint with evidence to back it up. I personally think Elvis stole musical ideas from the black man, too... but maybe he really stole from the Scots?

Well, your opinion doesn't really matter; I asked you to ask any BLACK person what they thought of him.

How do you figure he "stole" musical ideas from the black man? Most blacks have no idea that Elvis grew up in the projects of Mississppi in the community of Shake Rag. His family moved to the housing projects in Memphis, and he grew up loving the music that came from Beale Street. When he got older, he dressed like his idols did and was actually VERY RESPECTED by black artists at that time. Just to name a few, Jackie Wilson, Little Richard, Diana Ross, and James Brown all speak highly of Elvis Presley, even today, and what all he accomplished for bringing Rock 'n' Roll music to the mainstream. You have to remmeber that back then, black music was not accepted by white people during the 1950's until Elvis Presley came along, and even he was critisized at first for playing "n!gger music." When the white audiences finally began to accept him, they began to accept more black music and artists like the ones I mentioned above received more attention, and with white people buying their music now also, became very rich. Elvis Presley ALWAYS gave credit to his musical influences, and where he came from, but for some reason, blacks have it all twisted up that he stole "their" music, much like the fact that they STILL don't know the true story of how the slaves got from Africa to America. (Thank you, backbreaker, for clearing that up earlier.)

Most blacks have no idea of this man's history, so they find it simple just to dismiss him as "stealing their music," simply because he is white, so he MUST be guitly of some sort of racism. This example proves just how racist blacks can be when they don't know the FACTS; they just take the easy way out by blaming their skin color. It is not ALWAYS about their skin color nor is ALWAYS the "big bad white man's fault." They are doing it right now in New Orleans, against President Bush, and Kayne West did it on live television. What an @ss.

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by K B
YES, IT DOES. That is PRECISELY WHY there are NO COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS SPECIFICALLY FOR POOR WHITE PEOPLE. What if I were to make the assuption that all black people can play basketball until proven otherwise? Would you feel like you were "offended?" You might not, but I guarantee most other blacks would scream "racism."



Well, your opinion doesn't really matter; I asked you to ask any BLACK person what they thought of him.

How do you figure he "stole" musical ideas from the black man? Most blacks have no idea that Elvis grew up in the projects of Mississppi in the community of Shake Rag. His family moved to the housing projects in Memphis, and he grew up loving the music that came from Beale Street. When he got older, he dressed like his idols did and was actually VERY RESPECTED by black artists at that time. Just to name a few, Jackie Wilson, Little Richard, Diana Ross, and James Brown all speak highly of Elvis Presley, even today, and what all he accomplished for bringing Rock 'n' Roll music to the mainstream. You have to remmeber that back then, black music was not accepted by white people during the 1950's until Elvis Presley came along, and even he was critisized at first for playing "n!gger music." When the white audiences finally began to accept him, they began to accept more black music and artists like the ones I mentioned above received more attention, and with white people buying their music now also, became very rich. Elvis Presley ALWAYS gave credit to his musical influences, and where he came from, but for some reason, blacks have it all twisted up that he stole "their" music, much like the fact that they STILL don't know the true story of how the slaves got from Africa to America. (Thank you, backbreaker, for clearing that up earlier.)

Most blacks have no idea of this man's history, so they find it simple just to dismiss him as "stealing their music," simply because he is white, so he MUST be guitly of some sort of racism. This example proves just how racist blacks can be when they don't know the FACTS; they just take the easy way out by blaming their skin color. They are doing it now in New Orleans, against President Bush, and Kayne West did it on live television. What an @ss.

did you not just pay attention to what I posted right before you?

IT's like you were going to say what you wanted to say about elivis one way or another.

I don't know one black person who thinks Elivs grew up in a well do to household. It's pretty common knowledge that he grew up around blacks, in the same communties, same conditions.

Again, that has nothing to do with Kayne West or President Bush

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by K B
YES, IT DOES. That is PRECISELY WHY there are NO COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS SPECIFICALLY FOR POOR WHITE PEOPLE. What if I were to make the assuption that all black people can play basketball until proven otherwise? Would you feel like you were "offended?" You might not, but I guarantee most other blacks would scream "racism."

I was joking, I guess it wasn't that funny

 

[Derek Flint]

Originally posted by backbreaker
why do we keep s aying that bush isn't a rasist, but a Classist, but people like you keep saying that we are saying that he is racist?

I do not think Bush is a rasist.

Frankly I don't give a damn if a woman clutches her purse around me. I have too much crap to worry about or think about in a normal day then to give a damn.

Hell, I automatically think all white people i meet have money until proven otherwise... Does that make me racist? No.

To answer your question Derek Flint, the superdome was being taken care of... at least I am under the presumption that it was.

If it wasn't, then yes the air force should have went in, someone should have went in and got them out... But from what I understand, and I may be wrong, is that by wednesday/thursday these people were being taken to the Astrodome


It may very well be illegal to go in without the goverment's permission. But it is also illegal to steal food and water from stores, but you do it when lives are at stake.

No matter how much you try to make the arguement, the "The goverment didn't let me do it so I didn't save thousands of people's lifes" arguement isn't giong to fly, not to me because I udnerstand it, but to the millions of people who have been effected by this.

you don't let possibly tens of thousands of people die on a technicality.

You're argument isn't valid: It would be Unconstitutional for the Federal Government to come in and wrest control from the State without the Governors approval.

Do you know what kind of precedent that would set, besides it being unconstitutional and illegal?

This is not a mere "Technicality" like you claim it to be.

Could you imagine the outrage if Bush did do that?

Again, you're argument isn't a valid one.

The Governor of LA denied access to the Red Cross and National Guard to those that needed the help, and your argument is that the Federal Government should have illegally violated the US Constitution, wrested power away from the State and dropped some food and water in?

Again, I can only imagine the outrage and the criticism had Bush done that.

Plus, the Democrats would be calling on him to resign if he did.

You're argument is invalid, plain and simple.

 

[backbreaker]

I knew you were going to say that when I posted it. In fact I wanted you to.


It's not only constituational, it's the presidents RiGHT to do so in the way the countries checks and balence system works. Anything to do with national security, the federal Goverment has authority over Local goverment. In a situtation where a city can be destoryed and pretty much has been, the president can overrule a govermer... that's why he's the presdient and not the governor

Now, granted I can't think of a time where it has been done, but it hasn't needed to be, America is lucky enough to never have really been in a situation l like the one we are in now, we have never had a mid-major city DESTROYED to the point where the entire city is unliviable and tens of thousands of people are dead.



Hence why most of the blame AFTER the storm hits does relay on bush.

I am not the only person who thinks so. Bushs approval rating has dropped to an all time low since when he has been in office, down to 41 percent.

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1020



With all of that said, Derek Flint i will commend you and you m ake some extremely vaild points. However, at the end of the day, even though we are in a democracy, if the president feels that the governor is doing a poorest job... well let me rephrase that. If the prseident feels that the governor is putting tens of thousands of lifes at stake by a decision, he has the right to do what is best to the citizens of the united states.

Just like if say, a deadly virus hit Miami. Yes the local police run the city. But if the Armed Forces don't think that the local police can handle the outbreak and get it under control, and I am talking about an ebola type virus, then the Federal Goverment will step in, as they are supposed to.





To the guy a couple of posts back that said the media isn't racist and has no political agenda, who come the same media outlet, the AP says black people "loot" stores, and white people "find" bread and water in stores?

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/black_people_loot_wh.html

 

[backbreaker]

Insurrection Act


http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.factsheets&factsheet=5

It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.

So yes, although it's never been used and it shouldn't have to come to that, the president has the right to enfore the federal laws of this counrry, which were being broken and could not be contained the second people started looting in NO, which the first time I saw mentioning of it was wednesday.

 

[Derek Flint]

Well, I can post a USA Today poll that says only 13% think Bush was to blame.

In fact, I will:

CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?
Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

MORE

Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion.

And, if you can source your claim that it's not Unconstitutional for the Feds to wrest control away from the States, please post it.

Regardless, you're still placing blame on the Federal Government, namely Bush, because he didn't fix the State and Local Governments f***-ups in a timely manner?

That's not much of an argument.

 

[The Antichrist_Star]

Originally posted by K B
I had to chime in here. I hear this ALL THE TIME from blacks. ALL THE TIME!!! This is like their FAVORITE example of "racism."

This is for antichrist-star and all you "bruthas" out there that love to whine about this and think you are actually on to something...that doesn't mean SH!T! Look man, I am WHITE, and have gotten the same reaction from "little old ladies" and young women as well. It is NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE BLACK...it is because you are a STRANGE (at least to them) MAN. A MAN who is typically TWICE as strong as they are and can be easily overpowered by a MAN at anytime. So all of you blacks need to SHUT UP when some lady "clutches" her purse.

The next one is "profiling" or what blacks call "DWB," or "driving while black." Both of these examples are getting tired and they just reek of STUPIDITY.

When there is a police bulletin to be on the lookout for a stolen Chysler 300 that is driven by a BLACK MALE, just WHO are they supposed to stop? The red-headed kid with frekles that is driving his Ford F-150? No, you follow the BLACK MAN (which just so happens to be the same color as the car thief) that can't be seen through the black out windows on the Chyrsler 300.
And besides, I have been stopped NUMEROUS TIMES for so-called "license checks" and NOT ONCE have I gotten my panties all in a bunch...I was actually relieved I wasn't doing anything against the law. The fact is, IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL, THEN THEY CAN"T TOUCH YOU!!! That is why we have LAWYERS, and I am sure that Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, and just about every outlet of the news media would LOVE to get involved with the story of a black man being falsely accused by the "big bad white man." So JUST SHUT THE FUKK UP ABOUT IT.

One last thing: I worked at a record store years ago, and I want ALL OF YOU to do something for me...I want ANY of you to ask ANY BLACK PERSON what they think of Elvis Presely. I will GUARANTEE that 9 out of 10 will blurt out how he "stole" music from the black man.

Blacks must really be ASHAMED of their skin color, because it seems that it is ALWAYS their skin color's fault.

Jesus man... who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?

Reading is fundamental KB, and if you would have read, you would have seen that never once I complained about anything. Are they plenty of black people who blame the 'man' for everything? Yes... and those black people disgust me. Anyone with a brain between their ears knows full well (by sheer population alone) that they are far more poor, and undereducated Caucasian people than there are poor, undereducated black people.

I read your post man, and you are really kicking up dust for absolutely no reason... hell, your tangent is not even on topic. I was just giving the 'purse woman' as an example among countless others. Hell, if you want to be even more technical, I've watched my Caucasian friends get discrimated against by my own people!

All I was saying, and will continue saying is this... racism (on all ends) is something that is not going anywhere, whether I, you, or anyone else likes it or not, so it's best that we just ****ing get over it and move on with our lives.

By the way, anybody who knows anything about music (black, white, latin, Asian, whatever) knows good and well that Elvis (like Eminem) grew up in the hood. He (much like Em) didn't 'steal' anything... he just played the music that he grew up around and most black people (who again, know anything about classical music) see nothing wrong with this.

P.S: Don't ever confuse me man... I am black and quite mother****ing proud of it.

With that said... let's get back to the topic at hand.

 

[Derek Flint]

Originally posted by backbreaker
Insurrection Act


http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.factsheets&factsheet=5




So yes, although it's never been used and it shouldn't have to come to that, the president has the right to enfore the federal laws of this counrry, which were being broken and could not be contained the second people started looting in NO, which the first time I saw mentioning of it was wednesday.

The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC, Sections 331-335). This act allows the president to use U.S. military personnel at the request of a state legislature or governor to suppress insurrections. It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.

"at the request of the state legislature or governor" seem to be the key words as well as "It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S."

But that only has to do with enforcement of laws, not supplying hurricane victims with food and water, which would be in violation of the law.

Again, you're argument is still not valid:

You're basically saying that the Federal government, namely Bush, is to blame for the lack of action, planning and execution of procedure by the local and state governments, because he didn't fix their screw-ups in a timely fashion.

Again, that's not an argument, that's just shifting blame from the responsible parties.

 

[Derek Flint]

Posse Comitatus Act

Section 1385 of Title 18, United States Code (USC), states:

“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

The PCA does not apply to the U.S. Coast Guard in peacetime or to the National Guard in Title 32 or State Active Duty status. The substantive prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) were extended to all the services with the enactment of Title 10 USC, Section 375. As required by Title 10 USC, Section 375 the secretary of defense issued Department of Defense Directive 5525.5, which precludes members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps from direct participation in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

The PCA generally prohibits U.S. military personnel from direct participation in law enforcement activities. Some of those law enforcement activities would include interdicting vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; conducting surveillance, searches, pursuit and seizures; or making arrests on behalf of civilian law enforcement authorities. Prohibiting direct military involvement in law enforcement is in keeping with long-standing U.S. law and policy limiting the military’s role in domestic affairs.

Like I said, had Bush exceeded his powers and done what you said he should have, the Dems would be calling for him to resign and go to jail for violating the law.

You can't have it both ways, nor can you blame someone else for someone elses screw-ups, and demand that they violate the law to do so.

This is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard.

Not even the most partisan democrats would even think of making that argument.

 

[The Antichrist_Star]

^

Derek Flint, you bring up a lot of good points, you really, really do. In fact, I commend you for presenting your arguments in such a well documented manner.

However

Most of us here have CNN right? So I will assume that a lot of people in the federal government have it as well.

With that said... I'm pressed to think that Michael Chertoff (sp?) or Michael Brown turned on the television on Monday or Tuesday and thought, "Oh ****... the New Orleans and Louisiana government are doing a ****ty job... we should do something about that."

I will give you this... people are only blaming Bush because anytime something happens (hell, people are even blaming the ****ing hurricane on him... he can shoot natural disasters out his hands now too?) they point the finger at him. Matter of fact, I will not even blame him anymore. Who I will place some blame on though is the department heads of DHS and FEMA both of whom only have those jobs because they were Bush's homeboys back in the day and he's a sucker for loyalty.

And oh yeah, I really don't have to mention C. Ray Nagin who set black people back a trillion miles with his television and radio tirades even though he ****ed up on a number of levels and Mrs. Blanco who watched people die from the comfort of her own home.

If they have to go down (which they should), the department heads at DHS and FEMA should too.

Remember, even Bush said the work they were doing originally was unacceptable.

AS

 

[backbreaker]

When it was shown worldwide the looting that was going on inside the city of New Orleans, shoting a police officer being shot in the head, stories of young girls getting raped, the stealing of Cars, hijacking 18 wheeler trucks (which is in interestae commerce law inself), it was ovbious to all that not only the federal laws could not be enforced, but the state and local laws could not be enforced, which gave the president the right to send in the armed forces to get the crowd under control.

But while he was doing that, you don't think they could have sent in a few extra military personal to help save people? Pass out food?


I honestly see your view point, but I mean, you gotta take the rose colored glasses off and admit that at least president bush could have handled the situation better then he did.