Jena 6

Status
Not open for further replies.

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
azanon said:
So, in other words, private lawyers are generally more skilled than court-appointed ones.*
Assumes facts not in evidence. I assume you can back up your assertion that whites with a court-appointed attorney get the same sentences as blacks with a court-appointed attorney. Otherwise you are talking out of your ass.

On average, whites make more money than blacks and, thus, could be able to afford a lawyer more frequently.
Funny you should mention this.

You believe that white people are better able to hire their own private attorney. This is because you believe that white people make more money than blacks. So here comes the question that you should have known was coming:

WHY do whites make more than blacks?

Is it because of historical societal barriers for blacks in education, housing, finance, and/or employment?

Or is it because you're a racist bastard who thinks that blacks are just naturally inferior to whites (i.e., too stupid, too lazy, etc.)?

Because I do not want to give you a "false choice" logical fallacy, I will allow you to provide an alternative explanation which does not either prove the point that the system is biased against blacks/in favor of whites, or prove that you're a racist pr!ck.

While you're at it, maybe you could come up with a really cool explanation as to why murdering a white person gets much higher penalties than murdering a black person in our totally fair, completely color-blind, non-racist judicial system.
 

azanon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,292
Reaction score
41
Giovanni Casanova said:
Assumes facts not in evidence. I assume you can back up your assertion that whites with a court-appointed attorney get the same sentences as blacks with a court-appointed attorney. Otherwise you are talking out of your ass.
My point was much more simple than any specifics. I was merely demonstrating that there are obviously going to be more relevant factors than simply white vs. black. You implied that white vs. black was the only reasononing for discrepancies in sentencing. Clearly, multiple factors will weigh in. I simply listed a big one that came to me within one second; one apparently you missed.

But if i had to guess which of the two were more substantial, I would guess the lawyer point over the color.

Funny you should mention this.

You believe that white people are better able to hire their own private attorney. This is because you believe that white people make more money than blacks. So here comes the question that you should have known was coming:
know... and know... This much is common knowledge. I tend to steer away from "beliefs" of most kinds which are, by definition, unsubstantiated assertions.

WHY do whites make more than blacks?

Is it because of historical societal barriers for blacks in education, housing, finance, and/or employment?

Or is it because you're a racist bastard who thinks that blacks are just naturally inferior to whites (i.e., too stupid, too lazy, etc.)?

Because I do not want to give you a "false choice" logical fallacy, I will allow you to provide an alternative explanation which does not either prove the point that the system is biased against blacks/in favor of whites, or prove that you're a racist pr!ck.

While you're at it, maybe you could come up with a really cool explanation as to why murdering a white person gets much higher penalties than murdering a black person in our totally fair, completely color-blind, non-racist judicial system.
Here you go again; Looking for one specific reason when there will be a multitude of reasons. Are you really this simple-minded? Why don't you tell us the sole reason since you tend to think one-dimensionally.
 

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
I will take your general unresponsiveness as an indication that you are full of sh!t.

To recap:

You tried to claim that inequality in black vs. white sentencing was caused by the difference in private and court-appointed attorneys. You did not show evidence that if whites and blacks both have court-appointed attorneys that the racial disparities are neutralized. STRIKE ONE.

You quibbled over the usage of the word "believe" versus "know" when such was really irrelevant to the discussion in an attempt to distract from the fact that you had no response for the question to follow. STRIKE TWO.

You responded to a very specific question with vague generalities because you knew that any answer you provide will either prove a societal bias against blacks or expose your own racism. STRIKE THREE.

Who's simple-minded now? You are. Three strikes, and you're out.
 

azanon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,292
Reaction score
41
Giovanni Casanova said:
You tried to claim that inequality in black vs. white sentencing was caused by the difference in private and court-appointed attorneys. You did not show evidence that if whites and blacks both have court-appointed attorneys that the racial disparities are neutralized. STRIKE ONE.
I'm claimed very clearly just previous that a multitude of factors will be relevant. You continue to miss this.

You quibbled over the usage of the word "believe" versus "know" when such was really irrelevant to the discussion in an attempt to distract from the fact that you had no response for the question to follow. STRIKE TWO.
No, i'm just enjoying showing how you think vs. how I think. You're into beliefs, i'm into knowledge.

You responded to a very specific question with vague generalities because you knew that any answer you provide will either prove a societal bias against blacks or expose your own racism.
Actually, i didn't fall for your elementary-minded bait. Besides, why should I put my opinion in when clearly, you are the know-it-all.
 

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
azanon said:
I'm claimed very clearly just previous that a multitude of factors will be relevant. You continue to miss this.
I'm not missing the fact that while you claim there are a multitude of factors, you cannot prove the only one you have cited.

No, i'm just enjoying showing how you think vs. how I think. You're into beliefs, i'm into knowledge.
I have also yet to see any proof of your so-called knowledge.

Actually, i didn't fall for your elementary-minded bait.
You're right, you're waaaay too smart to fall for answering a question when you know you'll be wrong.

Besides, why should I put my opinion in when clearly, you are the know-it-all.
I thought you didn't deal in opinion -- only in knowledge. Tell you what -- I'll go easy on you and accept your assertion that I know everything and leave it at that.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

azanon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,292
Reaction score
41
You want me to prove what 19 out of 20 readers, reading this thread would agree with; that having a better lawyer helps in trials?

With your 5,447 posts, I doubt I'm the first, nor will be the last that will discredit something you say.
 

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
azanon said:
You want me to prove what 19 out of 20 readers, reading this thread would agree with; that having a better lawyer helps in trials.
I will type this slowly so that you can understand "more better".

I would like you to prove your assertion that, on average, white people with a public defender get the same sentences for the same offenses as black people with a public defender.

In other words, removing the factor of unequal representation, do whites and blacks receive the same sentences? You have made that claim, now back it up.

And while you're at it, provide an explanation as to why murderers of white victims are 4 times more likely to get the death penalty than murderers of black victims in our non-racist, color-blind judicial system.

Of course, because I am a nice guy, I'm totally willing to concede your earlier point that I know more than you and there's not really any reason for you to go on.
 

dietzcoi

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
8
Location
Germany
Penkitten

Hitler was NOT German (he was Austrian)

Maybe you are guilty of your own version of racism?

Dietzcoi
 

hope7

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
266
Reaction score
5
The south has some major issues with race. The south and midwest have issues period. Almost every day I read an article on digg that makes me glad I live in California.
 

K B

Don Juan
Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Messages
87
Reaction score
0
Location
South Carolina
Excuse me, I never went to law school, but I didn't know that hanging a noose from a tree was against the law?

I didn't know that saying the word n!gger was against the law?

Sure, it isn't nice, but what ever happened to "sticks and stones?" From my experience, black people seem to think that they have the authority to resort to acting like SAVAGES and inflicting violence whenever they THINK someone, especially someone white, makes any racial implications against them.

It is one thing when kids in school knock another down when they think they have been slighted. It is another matter entirely when a GANG OF THUGS decide to beat someone within an inch of their life and send them to the hospital because some idiot decided to hang a noose from a tree and/or say the word "n!gger."

I thought that assault and battery WAS against the law? Isn't THAT what the issue is? Charging this group with BREAKING THE LAW?

I have to agree with backbreaker on this one. Good, responsible, respectable black people must really hate it the most when a situation such as this occurs. Those race hustlers Sharpton and Jackson spew nothing but hatred and racism whenever they get themselves involved. To try and come to the aid of some black juvenile thug whose rap sheet is so long that it takes two pages, is just plain STUPID. You would think he could find a better adversary than that to support.

I am so sick of black people "crying wolf" every time they are held responsible for their actions. As a rule, Asians don't do this. Indians, Hispanics, and every other minority group I can think of, don't whine or complain and blame the "big bad white man" louder than black people. That is why my opinions of black people in general are so low.
 

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
I'm so sick of people talking about things that they do not understand. No matter what you think you heard on CNN or Fox News, the chronology did not go: Nooses hung in tree ----> Black kids go medieval on white kid's ass. The news programs on TV are incapable of going into details because the average American has the attention span of a goldfish.

Here's what happened.

Last September, around the beginning of the school year, an African American freshman at Jena High School in Central Louisiana asked if he could sit underneath a shade tree in the courtyard where the white students usually congregate. The next morning, African American students came to school to witness three rope nooses hanging from that tree.

Despite calls from the black community for the students responsible for hanging the nooses to be expelled, the school administration judge the event to be nothing more than a “prank”. The white students received a three-day in-school suspension.

This angered many of the African American students, and they spontaneously formed a peaceful protest: the day after the nooses hung, the entire black student population went to sit under the tree. The same school administration that had just called hanging nooses in a tree as a message to blacks to be a “prank” responded to the nonviolent protest by calling the police and the district attorney, Reed Walters.

An assembly was called, during which Walters, surrounded by police officers, reportedly raised a pen above his head and told the black students, “I could end your lives with the stroke of this pen.”

Tensions continued to flare at the school, though much of it was restrained as neither side wanted to negatively impact the school’s football season. Once football was over, however, the tension exploded.

A black student attempted to attend a white party that he had been invited to. He was attacked at the door -- white kids punched, kicked, and threw beer bottles at him. Only one of the whites at the party was arrested. He received a sentence of probation and was asked to apologize.

The next day, heated words were exchanged at a convenience store, which culminated in a 22-year-old white man brandishing a shotgun at a group of black students. The black students wrestled the gun away and called the police. The police came — and charged the black students with stealing a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who had originally threatened them with the shotgun was not charged.

The following Monday, one of the white students was loudly bragging and laughing about the black student being beaten at the fight at the party. Later in the school courtyard, six black students attacked him, punching him, knocking him to the ground and kicking him. The white student was taken to a doctor, treated and released with only a concussion and some bruises. He was well enough to attend a social function that same night.

The six black students involved in the fight were arrested and charged with aggravated assault. But District Attorney Walters — the guy with the pen who bragged about ending people’s lives with the stroke of a pen — changed the charges to attempted murder and conspiracy to commit attempted murder. The charges carry a possible penalty of up to 100 years in prison. Some of these have since been reduced, but still carry decades in prison as a sentence.

Only Mychal Bell has had a trial so far. The judge was white, and the public defender was white. The jury pool for the trial was all-white, meaning the jury ended up being all-white. One member of the jury was District Attorney Walter’s former classmate. Another jury member was the mother of one of the prosecution’s witnesses. Another juror is friends with the white victim’s mother.

The public defender did not challenge the all-white jury pool. He did not present any evidence, and he did not call any witnesses.

Bell was found guilty by the all-white jury and faced 22 years in prison until his guilty verdict was overturned because the 16-year-old should not have been charged as an adult. Meanwhile, he has already served 9 months in prison while the whites who attacked the black youth at the party received nothing.

Clearly, this is not just an issue of "someone hung a noose, so black kids attacked them". It's a case of completely uneven application of the law.
 

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
K B said:
Excuse me, I never went to law school, but I didn't know that hanging a noose from a tree was against the law?
If you had gone to law school, they would have taught you about "terroristic threats".
 

Giovanni Casanova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
5,550
Reaction score
18
Age
45
Location
Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
dietzcoi said:
Penkitten

Hitler was NOT German (he was Austrian)

Maybe you are guilty of your own version of racism?
What language did Hitler speak again?

The official language of Austria.

Which is German.

Penkitten did not say Hitler WAS German, just that he SPOKE German.
 

backbreaker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
11,573
Reaction score
572
Location
monrovia, CA
My 8th grade math teacher, Mr. Daniels, who was black and a damn genius with math, told me something one day that I rememer to this day.. as a black person in america you have to work twice as hard to get half as far.

Blacks should hold theirselfs to higher standards. Blacks shouldn't be coming to the aid to help a guy who punches women, even if it is their own.

what pisses me off, when I watch TV, why can't they show a normal ass black person like myself? Every black person that talks about politics on TV is either a rapper who doesn't know what the **** he's talking about, he learned a couple of new words and now he thinks he's Nastradomus and whenever he gets asked real questions, he can't put a corrheent sentence together or form an opinion (mos def, i've never been that embassed in my life than watching him on Real time with Bill March 3 weeks ago... if 40% of the words that come out of your mouth are curse words, you have bigger learning needs than knowing what goes on half away across the country) or Radical "Brotherhood" preachers who are so out there you can't help but notice them.. the long hair, they are overzealous, demanding attention.. that's how white people pertray all black people. at least the majority of them. Because that's all they see on TV.

Who is Kenneth I. Chenault? The African American CEO of American Express.



Regnald Davis
?
African American Wachovia CEO

Yet no one wants to put these people in front of a camera. No, News media goes for the outrage and the ebonics of rappers, like we give a damn what 50 Cent thinks about the war in iraq. He probably can't spell Iraq.

Take myself. If you want to get technical, I'm 3/4th black, my mom's dad is actually white, although I've never seen him in my life. For better or for worse, i'm black. My mom doesn't look mixed and nor do I. I can talk to anyone. I don't walk around with my pants below my knees, but at the same time I don't shop at A&F either. I wear alot of slacks and dress clothes.. I love to dress up. I've never had anyone. I don't listen to a lot of rap.. I really dont' listen to rap anymore at all.. I just don't dig it anymore. To me music is ment to have an uplifting feeling.. rap doesn't provide that to me. I'm not afraid of my own race.. yet at the same time I'm not going to go out and hang with a black guy just because he's black. I hang out, date and assoscaite people who have like interests and traits as myself.

Is that too much to ask? Be a normal mother****er?
 

K B

Don Juan
Joined
Apr 18, 2002
Messages
87
Reaction score
0
Location
South Carolina
Blacks should hold theirselfs to higher standards. Blacks shouldn't be coming to the aid to help a guy who punches women, even if it is their own.
I agree with you 100% on this one. The sad truth is though, as a whole, blacks do NOT hold "theirselfs?" to higher standards. The "Jena 6" episode where Jackson and Sharpton came running to support this delinquent, no matter how much of a THUG he is, proves just how bad these race hustlers are. I wonder why these two have so much power? I hardly see any white people, if ever, supporting what these two idiots have to say.

The truth is, REAL, common-sense black leaders like Bill Cosby, Tom Sowell, and Orlando Patterson get rejected by black people as "sellouts" and "Uncle Toms" whenever they speak the truth and try to get black people to hold themselves to a higher standard. It is the fault of black people themselves for allowing Jackson and Sharpton, and not Cosby, Sowell, or Patterson to represent them. Backbreaker, you and I may think that these two race hustlers are full of it, but as a whole, the black community chose these two irresponsible race hustlers to represent them. It appears to me that every time Jackson or Sharpton get the black community riled up about something as foolish as this, they hardly ever lack support from black followers and protestors.

what pisses me off, when I watch TV, why can't they show a normal ass black person like myself?
I partly disagree, backbreaker. When I do watch TV, it seems to me that "normal" black people ARE represented. CSI, Cold Case, Criminal Minds, all of these high-rated crime shows show blacks and whites both as "normal." Except of course, if you happen to watch MTV or BET. You would think that a channel that calls itself "Black Entertainment Television" would be more responsible by showing blacks in a more positive light, but they DO NOT. They would rather focus on this gangster image that black people made so popular rather than the black CEO of American Express. Again, it is the responsibility of blacks, not whites, to make sure that "their" channel accurately portrays them.

that's how white people pertray all black people. at least the majority of them. Because that's all they see on TV.
TV is dangerous and it is brainwashing people by the droves. Do you notice how TV (except for the above shows) and TV commercials portray WHITE men? It is very sad to watch how TV ridicules the white man as being inferior and stupid. It is also true that the "vast majority" of black people portray white people as racists who can't sing, can't dance, can't fight, can't play sports, and can't do anything as good as the black man, because of what they see on TV.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
3,958
Reaction score
36
Giovanni summed up the case well - this is about an injustice in the application of the law!!
 

Chaotixxx

Don Juan
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
130
Reaction score
0
what pisses me off, when I watch TV, why can't they show a normal ass black person like myself?
Because the media is biased, and it makes average closed-minded people like Stuntman think all black people are gun-toting robbers. There are just as much whites committing crimes all the time, but most of the time you only see minorities on TV. If a news station sheds bad light on whites, whites stop watching, and their ratings go down. If they follow stereotypes to keep everyone happy, they keep their jobs. Its just unfortunate that the average person takes what they see on TV as truth.

I partly disagree, backbreaker. When I do watch TV, it seems to me that "normal" black people ARE represented. CSI, Cold Case, Criminal Minds, all of these high-rated crime shows show blacks and whites both as "normal." Except of course, if you happen to watch MTV or BET. You would think that a channel that calls itself "Black Entertainment Television" would be more responsible by showing blacks in a more positive light, but they DO NOT.
You cant really compare CSI to the news. People generally dont take things as fact from television shows like they do from the news. And about BET, it IS positive compared to how blacks are portrayed on other stations.

TV is dangerous and it is brainwashing people by the droves. Do you notice how TV (except for the above shows) and TV commercials portray WHITE men? It is very sad to watch how TV ridicules the white man as being inferior and stupid.
Thats because of feminized culture. Women are smart and men are stupid and need to be guided and punished by women. We all know how true that is. :crackup:

A good rule of thumb is to take everything you see on TV with a grain of salt, because you see what they want you to, and most everything is biased to their opinion.
 

backbreaker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
11,573
Reaction score
572
Location
monrovia, CA
u not
K B said:
I agree with you 100% on this one. The sad truth is though, as a whole, blacks do NOT hold "theirselfs?" to higher standards. The "Jena 6" episode where Jackson and Sharpton came running to support this delinquent, no matter how much of a THUG he is, proves just how bad these race hustlers are. I wonder why these two have so much power? I hardly see any white people, if ever, supporting what these two idiots have to say.

The truth is, REAL, common-sense black leaders like Bill Cosby, Tom Sowell, and Orlando Patterson get rejected by black people as "sellouts" and "Uncle Toms" whenever they speak the truth and try to get black people to hold themselves to a higher standard. It is the fault of black people themselves for allowing Jackson and Sharpton, and not Cosby, Sowell, or Patterson to represent them. Backbreaker, you and I may think that these two race hustlers are full of it, but as a whole, the black community chose these two irresponsible race hustlers to represent them. It appears to me that every time Jackson or Sharpton get the black community riled up about something as foolish as this, they hardly ever lack support from black followers and protestors.



I partly disagree, backbreaker. When I do watch TV, it seems to me that "normal" black people ARE represented. CSI, Cold Case, Criminal Minds, all of these high-rated crime shows show blacks and whites both as "normal." Except of course, if you happen to watch MTV or BET. You would think that a channel that calls itself "Black Entertainment Television" would be more responsible by showing blacks in a more positive light, but they DO NOT. They would rather focus on this gangster image that black people made so popular rather than the black CEO of American Express. Again, it is the responsibility of blacks, not whites, to make sure that "their" channel accurately portrays them.



TV is dangerous and it is brainwashing people by the droves. Do you notice how TV (except for the above shows) and TV commercials portray WHITE men? It is very sad to watch how TV ridicules the white man as being inferior and stupid. It is also true that the "vast majority" of black people portray white people as racists who can't sing, can't dance, can't fight, can't play sports, and can't do anything as good as the black man, because of what they see on TV.
you notice how all of thoose TV shows are just that.. TV shows

what about foxnews, CNN,MSNBC?

I don't want to see Bis Markee on CNN
 

penkitten

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
8,270
Reaction score
244
Age
47
Location
at our house
backbreaker said:
what about foxnews, CNN,MSNBC?
i believe that those channels especially fox is biased for republicans.
i believe all media is more censored than we will ever know.
i guess they try to mask some of it so there is not a mass hysteria when terrible things look terrible. who knows?
 

6-heads lewis

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
640
Reaction score
7
Did anyone catch Rev Jesse Peterson on CNN? I liked what he said, Im going to look into him more. And any man that promotes the importance of fatherhood and masculinity is OK with me.

edit - He's anti-Islam too? this guy's great!
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top