Jealousy

[Un-Aru]

Great discussion alright...

Jealousy indeed is a perfectly normal human response. I agree 100% with Sinistar's idea that jealousy stems from the unexpected. I believe if you're able to pre-rationalise a situation you can (in your mind) assume a degree over control over it (even if that control is just an illusion), and thus your emotions as well. However, faced with sudden uncertainty, when the mind hasn't had time to process and rationalise events the more primitive instincts take over (ie the 'fight or flight' response) and a ****tail of chemicals is released as the body prepares itself for that which the mind is incapable of dealing with at that instant. It's the biological response to the fear of a situation that you're unable to control (because you haven't had time to assess and prepare) AND has the potential to hurt you.

Cast your mind back to something that we're all familiar with - learning to drive. When you first got behind the wheel of a car you were nervous. Ever notice how similar the body responds physically to nervousness and jealousy? Butterflies, hot flushes, possibly nausea. And god forbid you screw up your first driving experience badly - you throw the keys away and say to yourself "I don't need to drive anyway."

Now let's analyse the cause of that nervousness:

1. Uncertainty of your ability to control the vehicle.
2. Uncertainty of ability to react in adverse circumstances.
3. Uncertainty of ability of other drivers
4. The potential for injury (pain) if you fail
5. The potential for embarrassment if you fail (ego)

Uncertainty is the key element. So what's different today? The same danger still exists, but your ABILITY, and AWARENESS OF THAT ABILITY has increased, due to EXPERIENCE. However there are STILL situations where you get nervous despite you experience - eg. when you suddenly find yourself driving through thick fog. If you had started off in thick fog your mind would have time to assess the risks, contemplate contingencies and prepare accordingly. The danger is still there but you were PREPARED for it.

This example is analogous to an LTR with a hot girl. The typical guy would be nervous at the beginning, wondering what she was doing, where this was going etc, uncertainty is ALWAYS there. Therefore nerves/jealousy would be ever present at some level ESPECIALLY if you weren't busy with other things or people to keep your mind occupied. As the LTR develops, your EXPERIENCE with her grows, your understanding of what she does in certain situations. (most notably how she reacts to advances from guys.) Basically the uncertainty as to her intentions and character diminishes and you develop 'trust.' But still, as in the driving example, unexpected events and out of character behaviour triggers that all too familiar feeling.

If you can understand jealousy's origins, you can assume a degree of control - and control of this beast is of paramount importance to build a relationship that actually works.

 

[Latinoman]

Let me touch some points:

1- Jealousy is not normal behavior. The same way that killing somebody (an extreme) for raping a love one or beating somebody for insulting you is not normal behavior. I think the more appropriate term would be “common response”. But having a “common response” is not the same as having “normal behavior”. If it was “normal behavior” then it couldn’t be controlled. A “common response” can be controlled.

2- Disrespect should NOT trigger jealousy. It should only trigger anger. The only thing that should trigger jealousy is insecurity on oneself.

3- Allowing disrespect is on itself a very bad thing. Men should all live under a code of respect. Once a woman loses respect for that man, he is practically less than a man. Keeping in mind that males tend to lose respect for men that are disrespected by a third party (e.g. I have little respect for a man that allows his girlfriend to disrespect him).

How to deal with the issue of jealousy?

1- Honestly value yourself. If you make a self assessment and think that there are better men than you out there (as a whole), then you have the potential of feeling jealousy. Therefore, you identify those issues that need to be worked and work toward them. So, if you are in your teens and 20s, you can reach a level of “minimum jealousy” (there will be times in which the Pandora box of jealousy might open and it is up to you to shut it down completely) then by the time you are 35 or 36 you might be able to control jealousy.

2- Once you value yourself and accept that NO MAN is above you, you will NOT feel jealousy (or you will be able to fight the urge and control jealousy easier). Why? Because if a woman disrespects you, that action is not going to trigger jealousy…instead, it will trigger either
a. Anger
b. Demand of respect
c. Or end of relationship

3- Furthermore, once you are in a state in which you truly believe that you are one of the “chosen few” (a state of mind), you will be under the mentality that if she looks around, then she is the one making a poor judgment. And once a woman looks around, you might as well dump her. There are too many women out there.

4- Remember, she is free to look and do whatever she wants. It is her decision. You cannot make decisions for her. She is NOT your property. The only thing you can do is express to her your desires to be respected at all times. Or tell her what you don’t like. But NEVER tell her how to behave (unless she is around your kids, or parents or Company party). You let her behave the way she wants. If you told her that you view her touching another man as a sign of disrespect and she STILL does it, then you take action (see #2 above). You see? But sitting around and getting jealous or suffering for HER actions? Come on guys!

Conclusion:

Justifying jealousy is not a healthy thing. It is the equivalent of telling young people, “The important thing is to compete, NOT to win.” I say, B.S.!!! The important thing is to WIN! If you don’t win, then it is important to lose graciously and with honor and dignity. But the “the important thing is to compete, NOT to win” mantra is a loser’s one. I truthfully believe that saying, “Feeling jealous, it is normal and it is okay” is NOT acceptable. Now, feeling anger is acceptable! Commanding and if necessary, demanding, respect is acceptable. Feeling HURT is acceptable.

 

[squirrels]

DES: In that instance you're correct. However, he also consistently snoops and pries into her personal space and 'checks up' on her with the preknowledge that he's no longer an intimate of hers. In addition, he'll make accusation of her or attempt to baselessly scold her with the intent of learning what she's doing. In this (and in the interrogation) I think it's the physical rush and the emotions that follow from it that perpetuate the cycle.

That's true...if you get used to your relationships having elements such as jealousy, you come to expect that and even seek out mates who you think will provide that.

I'm not the jealous type, but I've noticed that as I become more interested in a woman, I have this old behavior pattern from my AFC days where somewhere in my subconscious, I'm still used to being "inferior" to a woman, having "something to prove", and I can see all of my interactions with women following that routine, to the point where sometimes I will actively put myself down in order to create challenges and obstacles. I think this is probably one of the hardest things for AFCs to overcome...getting out of the mindset of LACK and of love coming with DIFFICULTY.

Jealousy and distrust work the same way. People throw themselves into relationships expecting dishonesty and cheating...then they get so used to that pattern that they actively choose mates and situations that meet it.

If you accuse and suspect your girl of cheating, even if she IS faithful, in lots of cases, she'll start thinking you're "too possessive" and LOOK for other men.

 

[Latinoman]

Jealousy and distrust work the same way.

But they are not the same.

 

[Faca]

Why is jealosy not a natural emotion, i mean you can't compare rape to jealosy..

I can see why you shouldn't be jealous, but you can't tell a jealous man not to be jealous, he just is cause of his main thought and feelings.

But i do believe that when your focus is on yourself, and your happiness doesn't depends on external factors.. then you have nothing to be jealous about. People are most of the time jealous at other people's hapiness...