Jaded with women, dating, & relationships.

[TitaniumFireBEAR]

This might be a post of advice. It might be a post about relating to one another. I'm not really totally sure...so I will let the life blood of what I say (type) pour out and see where it takes me. I'm more interested in the unique perspectives available on this forum. So by all means, suggest away at your leisure.


Jaded. That's the mood I have, or have had, for awhile now toward women. Why?


As much as the "journey" of such confidence and intermediate mastery (oxymoron?) has been enjoyable, it has also been raught with it's set backs as well. Set backs that almost leave me, well Jaded, by the endless of pursuit of women.


It's as if I want to find the highest mountain top and sing a song dubbed "Where have all the Good Cowgirls gone?" [By the way, it's still in the making...] I have to ask...if we as men...place a large focus on being "hosts", and DJ's, where are our opposites? Where are the women, and who are the women, who do the same things?


What brought this on? Let's just say a series of dates and seemingly endless encounters that brought nothing more than short-term gains, which then begged the questions "WHY" ? After meeting a few too many women who embodied the shell of beauty, but lacking the core, I have to ask...where are such people like us?


I have a friend who, at 25, needs no advice to be a DJ, he is one. Born and bred as such. His 22 year old Ecuadorian fiance up and took off just last week, with his BMW and all. He finds out only days later that she blows the engine to the tune of $14,000, cleared his bank accounts buying goodies for the wedding and herself, and jets to the security and cover of her family, who through her manipulation, has turned on him quicker than a rabid dog on its owner. This kid, my good friend, is the kind of guy who strippers ask to hook up when they're done their deed. Many times, I play wingman to the 8's and 9's their friends bring. What for, though?


Where's the girls who take an active interest in life? In reading? In art? In the pursuit of pleasures not so sinful and disdainful? That enable a woman to talk, and seduce, to attract, and love? Not the mushy romance stuff, but the love of humanity for the sake of being human? Is it too idealistic a view...or is this where you find a lifelong partner, if that's EVEN possible these days? Is this where a man find's his back against a wall and finally seeks to break free of his bonds? Is this the blue versus red pill incident, where the grasp on humanity or complete avoidance of reality is accepted or rejected?


Is this where and how a man realizes 'the one' does or does not exist? That a life of merely pursuing women yields nothing more than an empty wallet and a beaten heart? Past Gf's and dates were fun, but as young women and young love goes...it's fast and quick.


There's more to come...but...as a DJ, as a man...I'm little disheatened at the slew of burned relationships and encounters that haven't quite yielded the expected 'return'.


Ciao,


B.E.A.R.

 

[Dirtheart]

First of all, I'd like to commend you on a very well-written and enjoyable post. It tells me you are someone with intellectual pride and depth.

I hear what you are saying and I personally share your view.

Where's the girls who take an active interest in life? In reading? In art? In the pursuit of pleasures not so sinful and disdainful? That enable a woman to talk, and seduce, to attract, and love? Not the mushy romance stuff, but the love of humanity for the sake of being human?

A question I have asked myself many times after dating one woman after another who wants nothing more than "a laugh". Is it too much to ask for a little meaning to a relationship? It seems that every woman I meet claims to be deep and "spiritual", into art, literature and deep conversations and it's a lie! Their idea of spiritual is reading horroscopes in the daily newspaper; their love of literature dates back to their school days when they were forced to read a D1ckens novel, while their discussions about art involve "I like the Mona Lisa. Ever wondered why she's smiling?"

Sure, sex is great, but it by no means compares to that personal and mutual connection and respect you feel with a good woman. But they are so hard to find.

My advice, and something I have been considering myself lately, is joining an online dating agency. It gives you a wide range of women to meet, many of whom are probably looking for the same thing. It also allows you to get to know them in a personal context (as opposed to hooking up with a pretty face in a club or bar) before meeting up with them.

Best of luck to you.

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

Daaaaamn, I understand 100%....

 

[Knicknack]

I feel you.

I was actually thinking about many of the same things you stated just last night. I've been dating this girl for a couple months, and she just seems lifeless sometimes. Sure, I can make her laugh basically anytime I want, but sometimes you want more. It's easy to show girls a good time and the sex is great, but what do you do when you want someone to care about and for her to care about you?

I often feel like there isn't a girl out there that will be what I want. As good as the sex is, it's much better when the girl CARES about you and shows you all the time. It's not even about love necessarily. We all have a need to be cared for. We also all define caring differently.

 

[TitaniumFireBEAR]

Reply to those who get it

Dirtheart, TheInfamousCBear......

I "knew" some souls would commiserate with what I was trying to convey.

It isn't like success with women has been had...but I find myself spending time with friends because we can delight in the simple pleasures. A small chuckle over a trivial joke in some cheesy tv show, a laugh or a sex joke, just the light pleasure that 'let you know you're alive' not just surviving.

I often am humoured by how the media portrays us men...when in reality you put the full spin on what us DJ's are here for. We're into personal mastery, or at least achievement. We desire to be better than we were yesterday, and that distinguishing feature, amongst our ability to 'feel' leads us to being a true human creature.

I was never this philosophical or life-based before, until now. Constant reading and introspection had me going deeper down the rabit hole only to look at the abyss on occasion and truly realize how empty it can be. While I'm no cynic, I am being cynical. Why?

Because like you men, I am the upbeat guy 99% of the time. I play entertainment for the many women I've met. And the few who could also keep my attention, were long-term girlfriends. The rest -- I have to wonder how they get anywhere. We're not here to criticize how they are or how they live...but I often wonder what they expect of a man, of dating, or of life. On so many occasions I've questions like "What makes you happy?" "What was the last book you read?" And so forth...

Do women enage conversation...or am I to believe to i'm that boring that one can't even START asking me questions or getting to KNOW me? I'm at the point where I've seen enough beautiful women that physical beauty is losing it's appeal. Being a man, it won't 100% dissipate...but I certainly am not phased like I used to be. Why let it, when you realize under the Gucci, under the Louie V, under the thongs, under the bras, there's no much soul...and if it is...I wonder what or who it is.

Attraction isn't a big deal. It's more or less...who's there? Why are we together? I have to wonder what 'value' she brings to my life? Are we laughing in the rain? Kissing in the snow? Seeing movies at midnight? Engaging in marathon sex sessions just for the sake of enjoying ourselves? Is this too idealistic? Would it matter if it was? I'm at the point where the only thing that matters are what words come from her mouth. What does she convey? Who's there?

I feel as if many of us, my friends anyway, have happened upon a beautiful neighborhood of homes, mansions in fact. In the driveways are Escalades, Benz's, BMW's, Ferraris, Porsches...any exotic car you desire. Each car is pimped to the end, and slammed with the hottest upgrades, even MTV rappers would salivate. The houses are of the MTV crib kind. Yet, when you knock on the door to engage the resident, no one answers. Or if they do, you find the wealth, the money, the illusion was created of false ideals, of false dealings, and through illegality. The vision, the reality you see is just that, your own view clouding your perception of reality. All the visual treats are wonderful...but a house that beautiful is lonely and empty all the same without cheerful, and enjoyable neighbors and people to live with.

More approaches are in order...but if dating is a numbers game...it seems more approaches on yield a greater pool to base this viewpoint on. Is it geographically related? I live in the Northeast. Is it my age bracket? I'm 24. Is it my background? I have a finance degree and my own financial planning business. You can look at the very specifics that society likes to place upon us, but...those don't define me. I define them. I'm no demographic bracket, nor definable by anything but who I am and how I carry myself.


Your in success,


B.E.A.R.

 

[squirrels]

Welcome to the corporate dating world.

Hit the personals sometime soon and look up some of these corporate jobs. I guarantee you'll get a long list of qualifications:

-Bachelors degree in xxxxx
-5 years experience in y
-2 or more years experience in z
-training in q a plus
-must be able to f, g, h
-yyy experience mandatory

Companies these days don't bother to train people, don't bother to foster any kind of employer-employee bond. They don't have any patience for shaping someone into a custom piece of their enterprise. Efficiency is key. Money is paramount. So they design their corporate machine and THEN try to find the perfect employees to fit that design.

People aren't hired, taught, groomed, and schooled any more. They're bought and sold. They're interchangeable parts. Don't like one you've got? Call their contractor and change them out for a similar part. Employers and employees have no loyalty toward each other. The company becomes inflexible, controlled by a couple of corporate "geniuses" at the top, and everyone else's creative instincts and personal learning and interaction is stifled to fit in line with the master plan.

And the sad thing is that we've taken this to our love lives as well. We don't have the patience to meet women, to get to know them, to just focus on whether we can have fun with this girl and let the relationship take shape on its own over time. We're always asking ourselves, "Does she fit with my master plan? Is she the ONE that I've dreamed of?"

When we draw up our corporate plan for our romantic life, we want nothing but the best. She has to be an exact fit...good looking, nice azz, pretty eyes, sparkling personality, sense of humor, intelligent, no drama, always loyal, good cook, good mother, etc etc...and we get this idea of our "perfect relationship." And then we go out to the Significant Other Market, the dating contracting pool, to try and find someone who fits that definition and skill set. And it has to be JUST RIGHT, because we only get one. We can't hire another woman to fill in where the first one falls short. (unless your culture believes in bigamy )

GOOD LUCK!

I've realized in the last year or so that 99% of all people out there are NOT going to find someone qualified for that position. There just aren't perfect people in this world. Some are good with some things, others are good with other things. But the standard you make for "the ONE" is so high that NO ONE can fill that position.

Sure you try, and you date, and you date, and you meet some girls that you get along with, but inevitably within the first 2 or 3 dates she does something that falls drastically short of your perfect standard. So you dump her. And after so many dumps you just become jaded and believe that there is no "ONE" for you, that all women are worthless, etc etc...

So what's the solution? You don't want to "settle."

Here's what you do: STOP worrying about finding the perfect girl to have your relationship with. STOP thinking about "the relationship" at all. Stop planning everything out and getting disappointed when everything strays from what you EXPECTED it to be.

Instead just enjoy the company of women. Talk to them. Tease them. Play games with them. Have fun with them. Make love to them. Laugh with them. Cry with them. Soon you'll find one or two that you want to spend more time with than the others. You'll start thinking, "maybe this is the girl I shoudl be in that relationship with."

STOP. As soon as you start thinking "relationship", you come up with this huge list of expectations and you try to either evaluate this woman by this standard or try to "change" her to fit this standard. This will lose you most every girl out there. Instead, continue to enjoy your time with her until you know she's the "ONE".

But how will you know without evaluating her by a strict set of standards if she can be "the ONE"? Simple. If she isn't, she'll show it during your time together. She'll do something like make you buy her expensive stuff, flirt with other guys in your presence, talk about her abusive ex-boyfriend all the time, etc, SOMETHING that makes you think to yourself, "hmm...I don't know if I WANT to spend as much time with her." The proveribal red flags we all talk about. Maybe it's something that will change with time as she learns. Maybe you can teach her. Or maybe you'll just end up spending so much time trying to change her that it just won't be as much fun as it used to be spending time with her. THAT'S when you know she ISN'T the one and it's time to leave.

But that's basically all a relationship is. It's not some big-time corporate thing...it's just simply spending time with people and growing and learning from them in that time.

 

[sux2bu]

Some girls are becoming increasingly opportunistic and bolder; using men as a conduit for personal gain. Especially the 8's and 9's. It's in their genetic makeup to do this. Once they win you over, with their physical prowess only, they'll keep him around only long enough to deplete their bank account or until a hotter guy with a better job comes along.

Well.. at least you're not in denial about it.

When a girl says she likes you one day, and then doesn't the next, it's one of the following:

1. She was using you, and got what she wanted.
2. You called her too many times.
3. You suck at life.
4. She found out you had a baby d|ck.
5. She found a bigger d|ck.

 

[TitaniumFireBEAR]

Knickknack

I'll preface this with a few things and pepper it with others...

Don't take my 'tude, friends, that I'm some depressed fanatic. In fact, I'm exhilarated about many things. It's just this 'one thing' in which I'm sure many of us guys who place our self-improvement above all else of vital importance probably feel the same way, yet we just don't say it because, as me, you're built to be strong. Yet...in being so tough, it seems we neglect improving our situations by avoiding the issue.

Many times I've been considered disinterested, unfeeling, cold, distanced, unapproachable...why?

Because some schools of thought teach you to be without feeling. That life is logically planned and events are meant to happen without question or fail. Is that true? What is true? What is fact, but what we don't accept?

I hail your honesty, my friend. My view is this...if we're going to effort ourselves in a relationship, one that will take as much importance as a dear friend, or family member, then she should be of equal character as they are. If I am going to make plans around her and foresake a night out with the guys, reading a book, or even the simple joy of hanging with my dog or cruising on the 'cycle...she should be of equal or greater interest, value, pleasure, and character. THAT is not asking too much, because frankly, she asks of us the same thing. Does she not? When comparing options, friends, guys, shopping, she selects you over those other plans because you give her something of equal or greater.

When comparing *I've* dated...I thought about those who grabbed my fancy...

"Christy", my first love back in HS, was aggressive, sexual, and her own person. She approached me. She'd swear, play bool, and smile. She'd watch chick flicks and cry, or watch guy movies and root. If she was feeling the mood, she, being human too, would seize the moment.

"Colleen", my college GF, was a cheerleader with unmatched people skills. A person born to sell, she was more into teaching than anything. A guys' kind of girl, she was down for whatever. You could hear her laugh across the room, and see her smile across states and through your dreams.

"Angela", a s/t GF, also a cheerleader, loved more than anything law enforcement, criminology, and police. Her most capitivating feature was her facial beautiy, as her attitude, either mad, peeved, happy, ecstatic, or pleased, was pure delight. She had unmatched physical beauty [imo] and hailed of European descendents.

"Danielle", was a long-distant GF, if you could title her that. Spanish/mexican/french, was a unique blend of her home state, Texas. Spicy, edgy, sexy, she embodied J.LO with less maintenance. A girl who'd rather crack a bud light and listen to Kid Rock, than trance out a local club. She was 'in sync' with every feeling I had and closer than most I ever dated.

"Marcie", was but a s/t gf as well, since work took priority for me over pleasure. She was sweet, petite, yet sexy. A woman who blended well with men or women, she was genuinely fun. Her sexual charm was concealed for only those who truly knew her as I came to know for a s/t.

And for the sake of privacy, names have been slightly altered. Those less meaningful never made the list. And sordid chance encounters count for not because they weren't 'meaningful enough to be spoken of. I leave those as folk lore to be regailed about with buddies over cold beers and warm pizza at Pat's games.

Are any man who see moderate to exceptional feminine success seeing where I'm at here? Perhaps I'm coming into a new generation of DJ-dom. Perhaps I wasn't there yet. When you've wittled away the friends I have, and burned the relationships with women we all have...you get a little deeper into soul searching.


B.E.A.R.

 

[TitaniumFireBEAR]

Squirrels.

Great post, my friend.

Right on the money.

Once standards are introduced, anything that falls significantly short usually results in the onslaught of depression or insecurity.

Where I am coming from, depending on your view...is that while I do enjoy some of the women, I have to ask, who are they? Where are they? Is anybody home?

Your post struck some cords, and out of deference to it, I will reflect a bit more and let the posts pile up. Even at a young age I'm becoming increasingly more philosophical and possibly religious.

I grabbed the first book "Left Behind" which is part of the Series. Only 30 pages in, I'm hooked.

IN a little while...


Ciao,


B.E.A.R.

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

Re: Reply to those who get it

Originally posted by TitaniumFireBEAR
Dirtheart, TheInfamousCBear......

I "knew" some souls would commiserate with what I was trying to convey.

It isn't like success with women has been had...but I find myself spending time with friends because we can delight in the simple pleasures. A small chuckle over a trivial joke in some cheesy tv show, a laugh or a sex joke, just the light pleasure that 'let you know you're alive' not just surviving.

Yeah, my friends spoiled me too...Ive had the same friends for over 10 years, and you can really be yourself around them and you can care about them...But with women, its the opposite...It seems like the more time you spend with them, you might get tired of them or they may get tired of you...With me, I look at relationships as an investment, like the more time I spend with someone, the closer you get to them...You show women too much of that, and then they are gone, thats why Im tired of this...

 

[NewMan]

Ahhhhh - this is an interesting string of posts....


I would say that I've been rather successfull with women in my time - more in the last 5 yrs than in my teenage and early 20's - where I spent my time reading, studying, playing sports and hanging out with male friends - doing what male guys do - drink, camp, road trips.. adventure... I've finally got my career, I make good money, drive good wheels and live in a more afluent neighbourhood.

I have to thank my parents for giving me the grounding and making me the man I've become today. Providing me the education and for the hours they spent at the kitchen table reading books and doing homework with me - giving me the tools with which I've be able to trail blaze my own life instead of just "exsisting".

I would say this - how many men are the full package? I think in this day and age, many men just don't get it. At my age, I look around and I see many of my single friends. Many of these never venture to the gym. They sit at home playing PS 2. Eat fast food for every meal. They have little care for their surroundings, how they dress or live. They live in dirty appartments - with old sometime broken furniture. They are sometimes bitter about women - and many of they have little care about honesty towards the people they are dating. Many cheat on their LTR's....

And I think this is the norm rather than the exception.

II'm not saying all have these problems, but most have some of these issues to varying degrees.

So what about women?

I'd say the opposite is true. There are many women out there with undersirable qualities. Many don't go to the gym, they smoke, Are not well read or travelled, are looking to get married ASAP so they can settle down, Take more than they give, have not picked up a book since high school, dishonest...... the list goes on.

And this is the normal rather than the exceptions.


But within both camps there are women who are worthy. They are hard to find - but there are exceptional women out there - looking for an equal.


Dating is tiresome. Meeting that right person is a long shot. They are there. It's just a matter of finding her.

 

[Kidquick]

I'm also becoming increasingly disillusioned with the way my relationships have been turning out - I'm 27 years old, and I've found 4 girls in the last 10 years that I was so blown away by that I just have to have them as girlfriends. Most of us here, I'm sure, have had plenty of experience with women and dating, but how often have you guys ran into a girl that really strikes a chord in you - maybe some butterflies in the stomach, an unexplained giddiness that you can't really put a finger on, just something about them that makes you say "Damn!!"?

I thought my last girlfriend was it - when I got her number I had to refrain from skipping down the street like a damn fool. Up to that point it had been 3 years since my last real relationship, and it wasn't because I wasn't getting out and meeting girls - I lost count of how many girls I went out with, all of them intelligent and attractive, but I just wasn't FEELING it you know? Anyway, I thought this was girl was it - 3 months and quite alot of heartache later I'm back at square one. She left me go out with some simian knuckle-dragger named Joe. (But she'll "always love me.") Bleh.

At what point can you ever completely trust someone? When you're engaged? Married? Doesn't seem likely, with the divorce rate being what it is. I'm at a complete low point right now as far as women are concerned, but I know that will probably change after enough time. It's important to remember that no man needs a woman to make him complete, and I keep that in mind at all times, but I've suddenly found myself bitter and cynical, with some pretty strong issues revolving around trust. I suspect that all humans have a genetic predisposition to being scandalous! (Case in point, I know she cheated on him last week. How do I know? Cause it was with me.)

Anyway, I think the bigget challenge of a mans life isn't his job, or his finances, or his status - it's finding HER. We spend our entire lives searching, often without even realizing it, and it affects every aspect of our lives - I envy the few of my friends that actually have something REAL - and sadly, there are only a few. It's experiences like the one I had, that I'm sure most every man has had, that take us one step closer to the end.

 

[DankNuggs]

Before you get 'jaded' and start driveling how there are no women out there for you, take a step back. Look at where your meeting these girls, and what your common interests are...


Bar: Drinking, flirting, acting in an exaggerated way

Coffee Shop: Talking intelligently, sophistication...etc...

This would be generalizing things a bit much, but shows that you reap what you sew...You want a renaissance girl, well, a good guess would be that she doesn't hang out til 3am drinking dollar schlitz drafts at the local bar...

You haven't met enough girls to be jaded...You can never meet enough girls to be jaded, you can simply learn what about them you don't like, and be cognizant going forward that the girls you date don't have those attributes... Should you honestly expect that you can meet the perfect girl that you want to spend the rest of your days with EVERY weekend at the bar?

Chances are your becoming jaded at yourself, because you aren't extending yourself to meet the girls you want to meet. i.e. in the grocery store, at teh bank, at the gym...I find myself too often limiting my dating pool to the group of girls at the bar every friday and sat night, and I quickly gave myself the advice i just gave you...

 

[TitaniumFireBEAR]

That's what I'm talking about!

You guys were RIGHT on the $money$.

I realize it's a process...as do some other gentlemen now as well.

It IS about the journey, not the destination.

And to some extent, I do approach less than an optimal number of women, from time to time. Much like selling, depending on your *goal*, i.e. PU, l/t relationship, friends, whatever, you have to do a certain # of approaches to close the deal.

The advice/posts were very helpful and enlightening, because I *think*, that as men some of us get tired. We aren't given the credit that is due for all that we seek to achieve. And we won't be either.

My hope is that I got as much from the postings as did you guys who posted them, or those that stopped by.

B.E.A.R.

 

[NewMan]

One thing to add to all of this.

I am amazed at how easy it is for some people to switch their so called "Love" from one person to another.

How easy it is in todays society for someone to be in love with a person one week - then with someone else the next.

This is not just a high school issue - it happens at every age.

People nowadays lack itegrity. Society really has fvcked with many people's mind sets. It's all now about instant gratification.

I find it very difficult to give myself to a person 100%. It's not something that will happen in a short amount of time.

 

[Caveman]

God! This thread is depressing!!!

But I have to admit I've been there too. Untill I found I was looking in all the wrong places. And even though how deep I thought I was.. I was a sucker for appearance. I still am and not to generalize girls but most hot girls are really not that deep. Sure, some of them are, but in the end, you're gonna want to hook up with a girl that is the 'icing on the cake'. The one that laughs with you, understands you like you understand her. And at least share some of the same views. These girls/women are hard to find but guys, don't give up. Afterall.. you did already learn a great deal from this site and your experiences.

 

[jdr120]

I agree with caveman!!

Reading these posts about finding the "one" right girl is gonna send me straight into a case of oneitis!!!

On a serious note though, you gotta look at the positive side, meeting the bad girls, and b*#chs you realize more of what you want, and hey you get some good/bad experiences from it.. It's not like you can just lock yourself away, never to be social again... That would be giving up... And no one wants to give up!!

 

[ShortTimer]

You can wait for your Cowgirl, and I'll wait for the second coming of Audrey Hepburn.

 

[coldcoal]

The best I've known have proved so before many words we even spoken. Now I'm not talking about "love at first sight" in the least, but there is an element of comfort that arrises very early on in the first few encounters, for me anyway. This is the difference I've noticed between the very few women I've dated that possessed the qualities we are speaking of here, and the round file girls.

What I have found most difficult is that there exists no checklist for such a thing, but from what I can tell there are some commonalities to appreciate.

The ones I remember most dearly were those ladies that I cared little if they knew and could discuss much of what I liked personally, as I was much too interested in knowing more about HER. It was always in a way a woman can reveal who she is that has perked my interests and more. The "what" made no difference. She could have had a fascination with silly-puddy for all I cared.
I often wonder and still do as to what this "way" really is, how it is defined and discovered. But too many trival reasons get in the way of making any progress towards understanding it. There is no place to go to find it. There is no material or intellectual filter to sift it from the rest.

The way is part physical adore, but what does that mean to me? How do I define that?
I only know it when I see it, and I rarely see it. It is part voice, part motion and part mind, all of which are defined for you when it happens.

What are the odds of two people finding this in each other? Very little I hope. I am certainly glad it is hard to find. And one thing I find comfort in is that what these things are change for me in time, so there is no "one" for me. Each and every one is for me when I am ready for them.

 

[rjherche]

I think it's definately a matter of you not expanding your dating pool. Why don't you try some volunteering? Not only is it just a good thing to do in general, but there are actually alot of chicks if you join the right ones. I would expect them to be of much higher caliber overall than girls from bars as well.