It Was Just A Matter of Time...

[ketostix]

There are reports that will show how many problems a given model had on average during it's first 5 years for example. That's pretty straightforward.

It's not straight forward because as I explained consumer reports will show a large discrepency between two differently branded cars that are almost completely identical. They do this with the Malibu and G6 for example. The reports are just not that objective as it would seem.

One thing I've noticed is people will say "I have this Japanese brand car and it runs forever and never breaks". Then when you investigate it closely, turns out they had numerous repairs, not all that many miles and the car has things wrong with it. Maybe the A/C doesn't work, it burns oil, the exhaust system is rusted out, the brakes are acting up, and the car is clunky running. And I've noticed many people who have a GM car abuse them and don't maintain or repair them and if one thing goes out in 100k miles they are throwing fits about it being "junk". It's really amusing the lack of objectivity in this matter.

 

[Da Realist]

There are a couple of things the American companies did wrong. One thing I know for sure is that production was inefficient. Some folks will blame unions, but from what I've heard from a guy in the car industry it was more of the way things were set up. The example I heard was that it would take basically a day to fix a die casting machine for a GM plant, but it would be a matter of hours for Hino I think. So if there is that one case, I imagine other things were going on also. Then there was the SUV explosion when everyone just had to have a big truck. I mean, big cars just phased out and everyone wanted a gas guzzling deathtrap because it was the new thing. Meanwhile people who didn't want one or couldn't afford one started getting the fuel efficient smaller cars. Pretty soon, SUV's were a staple of American car sales even when gas jumped and the American companies depended on them selling. Foreign companies on the other had relied more on cars selling than their SUV's, so I think that's more of how they survived. And don't think this is me biased against American cars because when my Ford breaks down, I'm going to get an older GM because they look better and are easier to maintain than the newer cars.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Oh brother, I can't believe in this day and age of fast and easy information that we're still here painting entire industries with such a broad brush??

There are a zillion thorough reliability reports out there for every make of car there is. Not all American brands are crap and not all Japanese brands are good. You'd be better off in a Buick than you would be in a Mazda as far as reliability. I drive a Volkswagen Jetta and I love the car, but the reliability is lower than almost every American car. American cars have improved markedly in the last few decades. But the preceptions from the 70s and 80s are still in the public conscious. Most people don't even know that American cars have fewer problems reported than European cars. They probably think that just because it's expensive and exotic, and from overseas, it must automatically be better.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/autos/jdpa_dependability/index.htm

Buick ranks right up there with Lexus with reliability. Cadillac and Mercury are very high up too for example. Just because the car is from an American company doesn't mean you can label it as inferior in reliability. I'd rather drive through the middle of nowhere in a Cadillac than a Suzuki or Mitsubishi anyday. Yeah, Lexus, Honda and Toyoto may be top notch, but not all Japanese cars are at the level.

Maybe a lot of the reliability reports are based upon new car owners? I don't really think about new cars, because I would never buy one. Quality to me is the state of the car beyond 100,000 miles, which is expressed in resale value. I am not a fan of all Asian-manufactured cars. Once a Hyundai or Kia comes off its 100K warranty, the $15,000 car is worth about 500 bucks.

You mentioned Mitsubishi; I would not rate them at the level of Toyota or Nissan, but I have had two high-mileage Dodge Stealths that were made in Japan by Mitsubishi. Both are good cars. I sold one to a friend of mine who still drives it, and the other is my current ride:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x252/dotheopposite/SDC10276.jpg

Considering its twin turbo, all-wheel drive, and meant to compete with the exotic sports cars of the early 90's, my Stealth is pretty reliable. When it breaks, it's stupid little stuff - my power antenna is broken right now - and it's not the type of breakdown that leaves you stranded. I have not had other cars built by Mitsubishi, but I know that Stealths will take a beating and keep running.

 

[fertileTurtle]

It's not the first time. We already threw like $60 million of taxpayer money down that bottomless hole with nothing to show for it. They need to move their factories down south where there are no unions driving the price of their cheap-@ass cars sky-high.

 

[speakeasy]

Only Tiger Woods, my grandma and my mom want a buick.

Buick is very popular in China and that's the car's main market. And there's a LOT of Chinese.

 

[ketostix]

It's not the first time. We already threw like $60 million of taxpayer money down that bottomless hole with nothing to show for it. They need to move their factories down south where there are no unions driving the price of their cheap-@ass cars sky-high.

What you have to show for the tax money to automakers is 60% ownership of GM and not losing 100's of thousands of jobs. What the taxpayer's got for bailing out Wall Street and the banks who caused all the problems for the automakers-high gas prices, no credit to buy cars, etc-is a different story.

Anyway, Honda's are made in Ohio and non-union yet their cars cost more. Some Hyundais are made in Alabama i think and non-Union lower pay and benefits plus sweet tax breaks, yet they're driving their prices up to mach the Japanese. I could throw BMW in there as well, their cars are rated least reliable and are the most expensive. The point is it wasn't the Unions or "cheap @ss" cars that caused all the probelms. It was foreigners taking market share, ignorant and jealous consumers, wall st etc. People like to blame the average worker when the blame is everywhere else. Low payed, no-benefits near slave labor is not the solution.

 

[ketostix]

Buick is very popular in China and that's the car's main market. And there's a LOT of Chinese.

Yeah it's funny how GM can sell cars well everywhere but in the US where it all started. I gave my reasoning why that is already. I think GM is trying to move their operations to China. I think they already have plants set up there.

 

[slickaz]

im sure i heard Honda, Nissan and Lexus have US plants where they have american workers building cars for the US market.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Nissan - Like a Wok

My 91 Nissan truck with 250,000 miles was built in Tennessee.

 

[ketostix]

im sure i heard Honda, Nissan and Lexus have US plants where they have american workers building cars for the US market.

Yeah under sweet tax deals for the foreign manufactures and with lower paying and low benefits jobs. The Big 3 closed about 30 plants and elimintated 10 thousands of jobs to be replaced by a few foreign owned factories fewer lower paying and lower benefit jobs. Some benefit that is for the US..