It is small things like this that differentiate an Alpha from an AFC

[Trader]

Put it this way, if he had taken the ball in the face, would she have ƒucked him like a wild animal later in appreciation? Or would she have been like, "yeah, you stopped a foul ball with your face, that's what guys are supposed to do, what do you want, a cookie?"

I think we all know the answer to that question. Since he already told her he would "try to catch the ball" he probably wouldn't get any more *love* since he was just fulfilling his duty.

It seems you are hinting that it is rather unfair: 'He fulfills his duty and gets nothing, but if he shirks his duty, he gets *run at.*'

And that's the point: it's his duty. You don't get extra credit for fufilling your duty.

That would be like me wanting *ups* for filing my taxes, or showing up at work. No, that's what I was supposed to do in the first place.

Also, for sake of argument, if he hadn't been paying attention and the ball happened to hit him by surprise instead of her, would he be an Alpha?

You are being facetious but in actuality it is very important to delineate *Alpha traits*

Can a guy be an Alpha if he is careless and not paying attention and getting in stupid accidents? I think we all know the answer to that question, so I will leave it at that.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Again, it's all in how you define it. "Courage" is the noble way of saying "self-sacrificing". There are plenty of examples of indifferent a-hole Alphas who you wouldn't say are "courageous" at all, yet women will literally kill each other (or themselves) in order to bang them because they are Alpha.

I happen to think the guy in this example is a chump for any number of reasons, but what I'd argue is that "courage" is not necessarily a prerequisite of an Alpha mindset.

Corey Worthington is a piss poor example of a human being, but he's a textbook example of Alpha. I could use a lot of adjectives to describe this kid, but "courageous" wouldn't be one of them. However, he's undeniably a natural Alpha.

 

[CageFighter505]

I agree that Alpha doesn't equal chivalry. But the reason to catch the ball wasn't to rescue the chick -- the reason he should've caught the ball was to establish a dominant frame and you know after that he would've been able to bang anyone in the stadium.

 

[Trader]

Again, it's all in how you define it. "Courage" is the noble way of saying "self-sacrificing". There are plenty of examples of indifferent a-hole Alphas who you wouldn't say are "courageous" at all, yet women will literally kill each other (or themselves) in order to bang them because they are Alpha.

Courage means the ability to overcome your fears and take action. It has nothing to do with chivalry per se.

That is the standard dictionary definition. Under that definition, courage is a necessary condition to be an Alpha.

Obviously we disagree on what constitutes an Alpha.

Corey Worthington is a piss poor example of a human being, but he's a textbook example of Alpha. I could use a lot of adjectives to describe this kid, but "courageous" wouldn't be one of them. However, he's undeniably a natural Alpha.

What's next, you are going to tell me that "The Situation" is an Alpha? Or that "Flavor Flav" is an Alpha?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I agree that Alpha doesn't equal chivalry. But the reason to catch the ball wasn't to rescue the chick -- the reason he should've caught the ball was to establish a dominant frame and you know after that he would've been able to bang anyone in the stadium.

This is the cultural meme. The cultural scale Cap'n Save a Ho ideal, save the girl, get the trim. Reality doesn't work that way. I'm not saying he shouldn't have protected her, but it's doubtful that doing so would result in her (or anyone else in the stadium) rewarding him with sex for his troubles.

Watch this video and tell me who you think is getting rewarded with sex.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Courage means the ability to overcome your fears and take action. It has nothing to do with chivalry per se.

So by that definition if I overcome my fear of the police and take action by selling crack cocaine on my street corner I'm being courageous and Alpha.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

This is some captain save a ho bullsh*t.

Alpha this and alpha that. Take a look at biker gangs like the hell's angels and the outlaws. These guys are legitimate alphas, that's how men are in the absence of rule of law.

Their women are property. They are not going to jump in front of a bullet and say I love you.


So take the alpha part out of the thread. If she isn't family, no woman is worth dying for.

 

[CageFighter505]

The main difference between AFCs and Alphas is action. Instinctively, an Alpha takes action when a challenging/"fight or flight" situation pops up -- whether it's catching a ball flying your way or hitting on that HB10 who's on the treadmill next to you at the gym. Inaction/retreat/fear is what we saw with the guy who's being discussed in this forum -- and inaction is the opposite of dominance. By no means am I advocating a "Captain Save A Ho" mentality. But there is no dominance without action, and to say anything to the contrary is self-deception.

 

[Radharc]

Alpha this and alpha that. Take a look at biker gangs like the hell's angels and the outlaws. These guys are legitimate alphas, that's how men are in the absence of rule of law.

This brings an interesting point, when you have a gang of alphas there are alphas of the alphas? accordingly there is such a thing as alpha-betas?

Isn´t context a key issue in this whole alpha thing? if its about dominance it´s allways about a group situation, and if you can be alpha in one situation and cant be in another? are you alpha or are you not?

Then there´s the alpha traits thing, that makes a bit more sense, but does it apply if you only have interest in taking care of yourself and not establish any dominance over anyone? I´ve know guys who you woulnt even notice they are in the room at first, but if sh1t hits the fan they have no problem kicking ass and are quite good at it, and taking care of themselves, are they alpha or are they not?

I think part of the problem is equatting courage, skill, and drive with the propensity to make yourself the center of attention. I know some very loud guys, who like to be the center of attention (and usually are) that if challenged by someone who means business just quietly retreat.

Probably part of the problem is taking an analogy from animal behaviour and apply it to human behaviour without taking into account the nuances. In etology you learn intra-species agression can take the fighting form where two individuals fight either to establish dominance over a group (and have priority in mating and feeding) or to get a specific female in competition with other males (usually in non-social species), or the agression can be sublimated and ritualized (over time, in an evolutionary process) and you have "showing off" challenges - think about peacocks, where there´s usually no actual fighting involved - this is a bit like a proto-cultural behaviour.

Applying this to humans, where you have a full fledged cultural factor to take into account, is even more complicated. Is the sucessful merchant an alpha even though he might be not very courageous, just dilligent and hard working? He does have value for females in a civilized setting, he can provide maybe better than the typical "wild environment" alpha. Culture, in an evolutionary sense, is an important asset to our species survival. The jungle off course is a different story. And I think we have this 2 different aspects inside of us, culture and civilization on one side, physical courage and prowess on the other, and both count and have to be considered.

 

[Warrior74]

hahaha endless debate over some damn kids at a baseball game.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

This brings an interesting point, when you have a gang of alphas there are alphas of the alphas? accordingly there is such a thing as alpha-betas?

Isn´t context a key issue in this whole alpha thing? if its about dominance it´s allways about a group situation, and if you can be alpha in one situation and cant be in another? are you alpha or are you not?

Then there´s the alpha traits thing, that makes a bit more sense, but does it apply if you only have interest in taking care of yourself and not establish any dominance over anyone? I´ve know guys who you woulnt even notice they are in the room at first, but if sh1t hits the fan they have no problem kicking ass and are quite good at it, and taking care of themselves, are they alpha or are they not?

I think part of the problem is equatting courage, skill, and drive with the propensity to make yourself the center of attention. I know some very loud guys, who like to be the center of attention (and usually are) that if challenged by someone who means business just quietly retreat.

Probably part of the problem is taking an analogy from animal behaviour and apply it to human behaviour without taking into account the nuances. In etology you learn intra-species agression can take the fighting form where two individuals fight either to establish dominance over a group (and have priority in mating and feeding) or to get a specific female in competition with other males (usually in non-social species), or the agression can be sublimated and ritualized (over time, in an evolutionary process) and you have "showing off" challenges - think about peacocks, where there´s usually no actual fighting involved - this is a bit like a proto-cultural behaviour.

Applying this to humans, where you have a full fledged cultural factor to take into account, is even more complicated. Is the sucessful merchant an alpha even though he might be not very courageous, just dilligent and hard working? He does have value for females in a civilized setting, he can provide maybe better than the typical "wild environment" alpha. Culture, in an evolutionary sense, is an important asset to our species survival. The jungle off course is a different story. And I think we have this 2 different aspects inside of us, culture and civilization on one side, physical courage and prowess on the other, and both count and have to be considered.

Interesting points. Humans are pack animals, there is always one leader in the group.

The leader is an alpha with leadership abilities. In criminal gangs and organized crime other alphas follow him because he is the strongest of the strong. He respects them, a leader that does not respect his followers will live a short life in a gang of criminal alphas.

The primary trait of an alpha is dominance. Whether or not he lives in the system such as a professional fighter or businessman or as a gangster depends on his ability to adapt.

An alpha respects strength and will tolerate no disrespect, even at the cost of his health, life, and freedom.

An alpha can be tall or short, the common thread is naturally high levels of testosterone. An alpha despises weak men and will prey on them.

 

[Warrior74]

LOLOLOL an alpha this an alpha that. Replace alpha with magical jesus or ubermensch or Ayn Rand Superman. Wake the fvck up boys. If you are here, you ain't no alpha so stop the alpha cawk sucking sessions eh?

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Jesus!

 

[jophil28]

Humans are pack animals, there is always one leader in the group.
.

Yep, and in a pack of two you better lead otherwise SHE will step in and do it for you.

 

[guru1000]

As we all know, courage is a masculine trait and Alpha Males have it.

While, in this day and age, we might not have the opportunity to express courage by slaying dragons and conquering castles, there are little opportunities here and there to display courage.

When a girl finds that her guy is devoid of courage when the situation arises, it is perhaps one of her biggest letdowns

Depends on which context chivalry is displayed.

If you display chivalry for the express purpose of her affection, then you are exhibiting extremely beta behavior. A man should only behave in the capacity that is within his being; as an example letting an unchivalrous event take place, would shake his core.

e.g. Old lady is being robbed within several feet of you, what do you do?

How you behave in this situation, does not make you an alpha or beta. How you act or don't act within your personal guidelines of behavior, is what's relevant. If your rule is not to get involved with other conflicts, then you are essentially playing by your rules and terms; this is an alpha trait.

 

[Radharc]

Yeah, you should lead, take charge, whenever your self-interest is at stake.
But I dont really care to try to establish dominance everywhere I go, seems retarded, and too much trouble. And there´s allways someone somewhere who would be better able than me at something no matter how good I am, so it´s a fools errand.

Having a leader serves the best interests of a group, it´s just a form of cooperation, where everyone is supposed to gain.

But there´s this alpha mantra going on around here that I have trouble acccepting, the rationale just seems too flawed, there are too many inconsistencies to it.

 

[TIC]

I see your point. He is a cowardly pusswipe because he didn't stand in front of his girl and allow the 90mph baseball to put a dent in his face.

Yea, definitely afc material. Call him what you want.

Meanwhile, I'm lookin out for number 1 at all times.

 

[Trader]

I see your point. He is a cowardly pusswipe because he didn't stand in front of his girl and allow the 90mph baseball to put a dent in his face.

Yea, definitely afc material. Call him what you want.

Exactly.

Meanwhile, I'm lookin out for number 1 at all times.

And by doing so, you fail to be number 1

 

[Mr.Positive]

The main difference between AFCs and Alphas is action. Instinctively, an Alpha takes action when a challenging/"fight or flight" situation pops up -- whether it's catching a ball flying your way or hitting on that HB10 who's on the treadmill next to you at the gym. Inaction/retreat/fear is what we saw with the guy who's being discussed in this forum -- and inaction is the opposite of dominance. By no means am I advocating a "Captain Save A Ho" mentality. But there is no dominance without action, and to say anything to the contrary is self-deception.

Great post! Sums up my thoughts exactly.

He shouldn't have run from the ball, or took one to 'protect the gal'. The ball was a threat, he should have caught the ball, took a bite out of it...and tossed it back into the field like it was nothing.

It was a baseball! Nothing more. This thread is ridiculous.

 

[Trader]

Great post! Sums up my thoughts exactly.

He shouldn't have run from the ball, or took one to 'protect the gal'. The ball was a threat, he should have caught the ball, took a bite out of it...and tossed it back into the field like it was nothing.

It was a baseball! Nothing more. This thread is ridiculous.

Ridiculous? Far from it, considering that if you paid attention to the girl's reaction, it is obvious he has lost a bit of the frame from here on out. This is huge.