Issue with Blown Car Engine

[logicallefty]

Dear Car folks of SS,

My 1998 Saturn SL2, 1 of 2 vehicles I have, made it to about 244,000 miles and the engine has went kapoot. The price quote I got on replacing the engine is $1600 parts and labor, which I don't think is a bad price. The car has had a lot of things replaced in the last 3 years so other than the engine it's very mechanically sound.. I was originally going to go buy another beater vehicle to replace the Saturn and send the Saturn to the junkyard. But I can't seem to find even a beater car for less than $1600. What I was wondering is, for those of you who have replaced engines in cars or had it done, did it end up being worth it in the end? Did you get your money's worth out of it?

 

[amoka]

I personally have not replaced an engine in a car but a friend of mine did his couple of years ago and it ended up eating deep in his pocket doing repairs. In the end, he ended up selling the car almost the price of the new engine. If you have the options, my suggestions will be to junk or try to sell it to someone else. Of course if it has a sentimental value, you can try to repair it but it just may not be as reliable as it used to be.

 

[Stagger Lee]

The price doesn't seem unreasonable but it depends on what exactly are you getting, a reputably rebuilt engine backed by a solid warranty? I'm betting by the time all is said and done you'll be in over $2,000 with the engine replacement.

Generally I'd say with that many miles on the car there's a chance it won't be worth the investment. The transmission could go out next. And if you've already replaced the transmission several other significant other things could fail. Or maybe even the engine and installation will be a lemon and you just won't get milage out the car.

I totally understand your dilemma. You have a car you know the history and have put in a lot of repairs. And anymore most anything under $5k even as much as $10k is a jalopy. It's a tough call to make. I personally think it's time to get at least a good, like new used car, say maybe 10'-12 Chevy Malibu. It's fairly similar to you're familiar GM platform from your '97 Saturn, and those years of Malibu have been reliable. That's a lot more money but a lot more car.

If you're strictly looking for another beater, it's not easy but it is possible to find a decent used beater car in the $2-3k range.

 

[backseatjuan]

Your car is already a monitary dumpster, as you said you've invested into it quit a lot, and now the engine. Next could be radiator, alternator, water pump, and really anything, because the car has a lot of miles. 250,000 for an American made car is too much, reasonable resource for American cars is 100,000 miles for V8 and 60,000 for small engine front wheel drive.

But then again, it's what you can afford right now. Can you afford to junk your car and buy something else? If not then the answer is premaid for you.

But if you can buy another car be prepaired to spend anywhere from 5,000 to 8,000. For that kind of money you want either German or Japanese cars, because practical resource of those cars are much higher than of the American made junk. For example, a Japanese made car is good up to 200,000 miles, a German car from 1988 till 1995 is good up to 500,000 miles. While anything American is as above mentioned, 100,000 max, 60,000 if engine has rubber timing belt. Also, for durability's sake, avoid automatic transmissions. I think for you it will be mostly Japanese cars to choose from, but if you find a good German, don't go by.

Each car has it's own resource, you can research it, it is measured in miles. Also, each car has service intervals, in which stuff has to be done to it in order for the car to make it to it's resource miles. When buying a car you want to ask and look for signs of service done to it, if the service was done at a dealership owner should provide some paper work. If that service wasn't done - in other words if the owner just changed the oil and car is good - that means you will have to do everything he hasn't done and then some.

 

[Stagger Lee]

This is pure nonsense. American cars are some of the oldest and highest milage cars on the road in America. European cars have the worst record for holding up in America and are more expensive to repair. Japanese cars have been slightly more reliable for minor issues, but for over all lifetime, America cars are driven for as long or longer.

Never expect anything but misinformation from a comrade.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Saturns are junk. That's why they went out of business. Ditch the money pit.

 

[amoka]

This is pure nonsense. American cars are some of the oldest and highest milage cars on the road in America. European cars have the worst record for holding up in America and are more expensive to repair. Japanese cars have been slightly more reliable for minor issues, but for over all lifetime, America cars are driven for as long or longer.

Never expect anything but misinformation from a comrade.

Only in your little Damnville town. I bet you've never been in an European car before, much more own one. But I don't blame you. Keep on dreaming and keep on buying FORD ( Fix Or Repair Daily).

 

[Billtx49]

Some engine rebuild companies put out total crap. If you just have a mechanic installing a rebuild, make sure it has been rebuilt by one of the better companies. However, if I wanted a rebuilt engine in my car, I would find a very competent mechanic that could rebuild my original engine himself.

 

[backseatjuan]

For 250,000 mile engine, let's assume it is a 4 cylinder, because I think Saturn has 4 cylinder engines, to rebuild it repair company will have to:

1. Clean the block and honey cone each cylinder wall, if there are liners, replace the liners.
2. Install new cylinders and cylinder rings.
3. Balance the crankshaft.
4. Replace all the gaskets in cylinder block.
5. Clean cylinder head.
6. Install new valvetrain into cylinder head.
7. Change spark plugs, and plug wires.
8. Change all the belts.
9. Tune the engine.


Something tells me that you either had your engine knocking, that would mean a broken push rod and seased bottom end, or perhaps timing belt broke and valves hit cylinders. Either way it's either a bottom rebuild or a head rebuild. I doubt your entire engine will be rebuild. But let's assume the entire engine is rebuild, including a new timing belt tensioner and new cam shaft, that engine will last you 60,000 miles, provided that by 20,000 or 40,000 miles you replace timing belt. Let's say you drive 20,000 miles per year, your new rebuild engine will last you 3 years before a major repair. In this time period you are going to be repairing other things in your car, air conditioning, water pump, alternator, transmission (this thing could not be original on your automobile, either way it needs to be serviced now), transaxle.

My point is your car has expired in terms of its resource, and further exploitation of your automobile will result in constant repairs. Let's not forget about interior and paint. It's time for you to buy a new used car!

 

[Slickster]

If you get the engine replaced can you reasonably get $1600 for it the next day if you tried to sell? If so then go for it. If not you have to ask how much longer you expect to drive this thing.

$1600 is not a lot of money for an engine replacement. You need to find out how many miles are on the replacement. If it is unknown then forget about it and look for another. If it is reasonable then you can probably expect to get a similar result as your last engine if you take care of it. If you can get 16 months of use out of the car that is $100/month and is pretty cheap. You can use that time to look for another car and still sell the Saturn to cut your losses.

If you can, take a look at the replacement engine before you decide. Your mechanic should be happy to let you take a look and even do some poking around. Does it look clean? Are there oil leaks? If so from where. Some leaks are easy/cheap fixes. Others require a lot of time and money. Look at the exhaust (ie. muffler, exhaust manifold, etc.) Stick your finger in there and give a good wipe. If it is wet and sludgy that is a bad sign. Pull the dipstick and smell the oil. Does it smell burnt or like strong exhaust fumes? Again a bad sign. Definitely pull the spark plugs and look. Your mechanic should happily do this. Google "what should my spark plugs look like" for help. The above info will tell you far more (and be more honest) than any compression numbers that you are told. Use your senses and look at what is in front of you. If it passes the above eye test then in most cases you will be okay for a reasonable amount of time.

What kind of condition is your car otherwise. Rust? Interior? Even if it is in good mechanical condition, if it is in rough shape cosmetically you are basically throwing money down the toilet. (Unless it's a work truck.) Nobody wants an ugly car and you will never get your money back out of it.

If you watch closely you can always find a nice cheap beater out there that someone is essentially giving away. It takes time and you have to watch daily but they are out there. In most cases you can drive these things for several years without putting any money in. Keep watching and buy another when you find one. Sell the original before it costs you anything and repeat. You can essentially drive a decent car for free. I've been doing this for quite a few years with my winter vehicles. (Summertime I drive a classic.)

Don't waste money on cars. Either buy new/newish (and drive it forever) or buy a throw away beater. Those used cars in the $5-$10K range are a complete waste of money. You will spend the same amount in repairs as you would on a properly chosen beater. Spending excess money on getting from point A to point B is dumb. Invest your money or at least spend it on something fun.

 

[Stagger Lee]

For 250,000 mile engine, let's assume it is a 4 cylinder, because I think Saturn has 4 cylinder engines, to rebuild it repair company will have to:

1. Clean the block and honey cone each cylinder wall, if there are liners, replace the liners.
2. Install new cylinders and cylinder rings.
3. Balance the crankshaft.
4. Replace all the gaskets in cylinder block.
5. Clean cylinder head.
6. Install new valvetrain into cylinder head.
7. Change spark plugs, and plug wires.
8. Change all the belts.
9. Tune the engine.


Something tells me that you either had your engine knocking, that would mean a broken push rod and seased bottom end, or perhaps timing belt broke and valves hit cylinders. Either way it's either a bottom rebuild or a head rebuild. I doubt your entire engine will be rebuild. But let's assume the entire engine is rebuild, including a new timing belt tensioner and new cam shaft, that engine will last you 60,000 miles, provided that by 20,000 or 40,000 miles you replace timing belt. Let's say you drive 20,000 miles per year, your new rebuild engine will last you 3 years before a major repair.

Just about everything you said here is generic and doesn't apply to a Saturn engine or even most American designs. Saturns are OHC with a timing chain, not a timing belt and no pushrods. You never see timing belts used with a production pushrod engine anyway. American automakers rarely used timing belts unlike Japanese and to some extent Euros did. Since Saturns also have an aluminum block with iron cylinder liners, rare technology in an econo car for that time, conceivably you could reline cylinders, but I doubt anyone would bother with the expense. Platinum plugs and various other parts may have been replaced or not need replacing, and you can't really do much to tune late model American domestics (mid-80's up) such as the Saturn. The powertrain control module (PCM) controls idle speed, spark timing and fuel mixture. The valves are not adjustable as the cam followers are hydraulic.