Is this a mixed signal or what?

[The Grue]

Hello DJs,

About 3 weeks ago, I watched a theatrical play with a talented(and attractive actress) in it, Irene.
She left after the play, and we didn't meet or speak, but as she had caught my eye, I found her on Facebook and congratulated her(BTW,she is really good!).
Anyway, we become FB friends and since then, we have talked a few times for a bit, but everything is light and airy.
She is friendly, but is listed as "married", so my incentive was not strong.
Yesterday, we chatted a while and she seemed a bit friendlier than usual.
It comes out in the conversation that she is NOT married!
In fact, she "probes" me asking questions about my age, family status, etc...
Nothing too heavy, but it is there.
Then she said we should "get together and talk over dinner"
At this point, I got her number and told her we'd could do that.
This happened on Wednesday, so I am thinking about calling on Friday and inviting her out on Monday or Tuesday.

She is the one who actually asked me out, so it seems like a done deal, but when I asked her about her schedule(she works unusual hours sometimes due to her normal work) she said that she is OK but doesn't usually stay out too late, so an EARLY DINNER would be better if it is Ok with me.

My Question: Is this a red flag? This is a 30 year old woman and it seems to me that a curfew is a mixed signal.

On the other hand, we have never met in person(but we have a common friend), so could it just be a safeguard on Irene's part?

My instinct is to just set an earlier date as she wishes, and just have a good time!

Any advice would be appreciated guys,

 

[Jitterbug]

She is friendly, but is listed as "married", so my incentive was not strong.

Check her Facebook photos to see if you can find Mr Hubby. If there isn't one, it's likely that she lists herself as "Married" to avoid guys bombarding her with messages.

Edit: sorry didn't read carefully. So she's not married, just like I thought.

My Question: Is this a red flag? This is a 30 year old woman and it seems to me that a curfew is a mixed signal.

She's probably just saying that to give herself an easy out if the "date" turns out to be crap.

Don't worry about it. Just show up and enjoy the date. You'll find out a lot more in person than over Facebook or the phone.

 

[jophil28]

Yeah, some women say a whole lot of stuff for bizarre reasons of their own.
Don't try to make sense out of nonsense.
She might be a great woman .You will find out if you start dating her.
I say go for it and quit overthinking .

 

[Sinistar]

Rollo can do a much better job breaking down the myth of 'mixed signals'. There were no mixed signals here. Actually women are quite gifted when it comes to communication and it's us that miss it most of the time. It's what this woman communicated indirectly (what she did, didn't do and didn't say) that was the message. Think about the following:

You watched her in a play and then contacted her online. Even with a mutual friend, many women might have their creapo meter peg and not respond or quickly decline. But she elected to continue conversation. No words needed there to indicate she has some degree of interest level.

As things progress things are "light and airy". This tells us she's not stupid, not divulging too much, not getting to invested, being a bit aloof (one of her best weapons in the game of attraction).

Next, you notice that she's listed as married. This tells you one of two things. Either she's married but she hasn't put a stop to the communications (that would be a bigger red flag) or it's simply a protection mechanism.

Then she gets a bit more interested. Once again no words needed to tell you that she still has IL worthy of a bit more effort. During that convo you learn she's not married (BTW you should have threw that back at her in fun to watch her response). And she actually opens the door for meeting in person. Once again no mixed signals or words needed there right?

You mention the 10pm curfew being a possible mixed signal. Think about it. She still has not met you in person. She's leaving herself a way out if things aren't what she's thinking / wondering / fantasizing about or if she in some way feels insecure or threatened.

Actually I would advise you to alter your proposed plan (a bit) or she'll see a red flag!

Don't call her on a Friday. She is the master of convert / indirect. She will sense that you are hoping (and you are whether you will admit it or not) that she has no plans and that you'll be able to do something last minute. DON'T do it. What mystery you've build will be shot. She'll know even before you speak that you have no plans for the weekend. Or if you do and try to explain it she'll know you're trying to hard.

You've done well to this point. Keep the healthy bit of mystery going. Pull back a bit on the artificial contact (anything other than standing right beside her) and ask her out next week. Maybe you ask her out on a Monday for something simple during the week. Let her know (without words) that you are confident enough in yourself that you don't need to rush and that you have a life too. She will like that. She needs that. Anything else and you'll be LJBF'd within two weeks.

ps. If you're really doing it for her she'll forget all about that curfew

 

[The Grue]

TO begin, thanks for all the advice DJ's.
This is invaluable material and you guys know your stuff, that much is apparent.

I agree with the advice given by all posters.
Sinistar, your analysis of the situation is extremely logical and very sophisticated in my opinion.
WIth it in mind, I will call her on Monday and propose dinner for Wednesday or Thursday.
She had talked about "talking over dinner"; should I possibly change this and invite her for drinks or some other activity?

Concerning the curfew, she didn't specifically mention an hour(like 10pm) but I felt it was a safeguard and I can understand it in her part.

Again, I am not used to being asked to dinner by women; it seems to show Interest to me, but I am generally wary of women and their motives.

Well see how it goes and I will keep you posted,

 

[amoka]

Try not spending too much on her---thus if you planned on spending any money on her at all.

 

[Jitterbug]

If she asks him out for dinner, she can pay. He can buy her drinks afterwards or pick her up / give her a lift (if it applies).

 

[Sinistar]

She had talked about "talking over dinner"; should I possibly change this and invite her for drinks or some other activity?

You're the Man, ask her to do what you want to do! If you think having dinner will make you evening enjoyable go for it. It's all about you right now (even if it doesn't seem like it). Remember, women are here to compliment our lives not be the center of it. Just don't barf out your life story regarding women. She needs to enjoy the game of prying it out of you

One other thing I should have mentioned. Check your expectations at the door right now. Be confident and positive. But know that any woman is likely to flake out, not answer a call, etc. The guy who is aware of this doesn't call back if she doesn't return a call. He doesn't try and arrange another date if she cancels and doesn't counter. Those will all be possible tests that she'll throw your way if she's on the fence. To counter this, get busy this weekend. Try and meet other women. Do guy sh!t. Do what want to do. Don't sit and pine away thinking about her - she'll sense it when you ask her out. You're asking her out next week because you have a life and you're busy this week. Let her fill in that blank.

Remember, you have the rest of your life. But's she's 30 and in her mind she's got like 4yrs to score a dude and make a genetically perfect grandbabby. That's all you need to know to own the frame with this one for as long as you're meant to know her!

 

[The Grue]

Yes, I understand your points Sinistar...
Well, I will be calling on Monday and I'll se how it goes.
As for expectations, she seems nice enough, but with the type of women out there today, that may mean less than nothing!

I work in an office environment so I log onto FB for a while almost daily, so she could see me there.
However, I will try to keep conversation minimal until I call.
Ok, thanks again...tell you more next week....

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The medium IS the message.

I hate the term 'Mixed Signals/Messages'. More often than not there's nothing 'Mixed' being communicated and rather it's a failure (willful or not) to read what a woman is communicating. The average guy tends to 'get' exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own. When a girl goes from hot to cold and back again, THIS IS the message - she's got buyers regret, you're not her first priority, she's deliberating between you and what she perceives is a better prospect, you were better looking when she was drunk, etc. - the message isn't the 'what ifs', the message IS her own hesitation and how her behavior manifests it. 10 dates before sex? This IS the message. Canceling dates? This IS the message.

Women with high IL wont confuse you. When a woman wants to ƒuck she'll find a way to ƒuck. If she's fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It's when you patiently wile away your time wondering what the magic formula is that'll bring her around that you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attention.

What most guys think are 'mixed messages' or confusing behavior coming from a woman is simply due to their inability (for whatever reason) to make an accurate interpretation of why she's behaving in such a manner. Usually this boils down to a guy getting so wrapped up in a girl that he'd rather make concessions for this behavior than see it for what it really is. In other words, it's far easier to call it 'mixed messages' or fall back on the old chestnut of how fickle and random women are, when in fact it's simply a rationale to keep themselves on the hook, so to speak, because they lack any real, viable, options with other women in their lives. A woman that has a high IL in a guy has no need (and less motivation) to engage in behaviors that would compromise her status with him. Women of all ILs will sh!t test, and men will pass or fail accordingly, but a test is more easily recognizable.

 

[The Grue]

The medium IS the message.

I hate the term 'Mixed Signals/Messages'. More often than not there's nothing 'Mixed' being communicated and rather it's a failure (willful or not) to read what a woman is communicating. The average guy tends to 'get' exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own.

Women with high IL wont confuse you.

What most guys think are 'mixed messages' or confusing behavior coming from a woman is simply due to their inability (for whatever reason) to make an accurate interpretation of why she's behaving in such a manner.

In all sincerity , this is an excellent post and I am impressed by the clarity and eloquence of your writing Rollo.
Only problem with such posts is that they show me my glaring deficiencies with women and the female psyche. I hope to address some of the issues with more reading on the site.

Ok, I will apply your words to the situation.

We were having an interesting FB chat, but we have not met in person(other than my watching her in the play).
We became FaceBook friends, but I sought her out,not she.
In her mind, this means that I am interested.

However, over the course of the following weeks, I make no pass at her, and our simple chats revolve around our common interests.
During our last chat, we connect a bit more than before and she mentions "dinner".
I take the bait and ask for her number.

In her mind, I have shown concrete interest in her and she proceeds to retract the invitation to the extent that she can without seeming silly.
So, she throws in that bit about an "early dinner" because she "doesn't stay out too late".
Which is quite silly coming from a 30 year old woman.

She is already showing "buyer's remorse" and I haven't even called her yet.

Logically, there is a good chance she may refuse the dinner offer or accept it then back out.

Let's see what happens on Monday...

 

[ketostix]

It seems to me this girl is playing the good girl frame. Is she really a good girl? I doubt it. I think you need to get more compliance from her and somehow lead her more. I would not agree to an "early dinner" plans. You don't want to be the early dinner date guy, why she goes out later at night to the bar and hooks it up. Try to lead her to going out late and having some drinks.

 

[Sinistar]

She is already showing "buyer's remorse" and I haven't even called her yet.

Logically, there is a good chance she may refuse the dinner offer or accept it then back out.

Let's see what happens on Monday...

You are letting your mind defeat you before the game even starts. What did I tell you earlier. Get busy this weekend. Do other fun stuff that you enjoy. Every day should be about you whether you're on your own or have a supermodel walking beside you. And do one more thing. Get the fvck off of Face Book this weekend. If you're a man you won't be checking up on her. And when she checks up on you she needs to discover one thing - you not there - mystery. Anything else and you'll probably screw it all up.

Make it your goal this weekend to meet other women, chat them up, get rejected a few times and maybe score another number - I can all but guarantee you that it will kill of this emerging one-itis!

Every minute you spend thinking about her this weekend will be apparent when you call her. Women can read a guy who's "acting" aloof - you know that sense that the guy has been thinking too much about a call or date. Women have no defense against a guy who "is" aloof. Be the second guy and within 2-3 dates this "actress" just might show you one of the things that histrionic types tend to be really, really good at

 

[Tazman]

We were having an interesting FB chat, but we have not met in person(other than my watching her in the play).
We became FaceBook friends, but I sought her out,not she.
In her mind, this means that I am interested.

However, over the course of the following weeks, I make no pass at her, and our simple chats revolve around our common interests.
During our last chat, we connect a bit more than before and she mentions "dinner".
I take the bait and ask for her number.

In her mind, I have shown concrete interest in her and she proceeds to retract the invitation to the extent that she can without seeming silly.
So, she throws in that bit about an "early dinner" because she "doesn't stay out too late".
Which is quite silly coming from a 30 year old woman.

She is already showing "buyer's remorse" and I haven't even called her yet.

Logically, there is a good chance she may refuse the dinner offer or accept it then back out.

Let's see what happens on Monday...

I think this is a great assessment, and you will find the answer to your questions after the date (if she doesn't back out of it, although that is an answer in itself). At this stage it's only her "curiosity" driving her.

 

[jophil28]

Every minute you spend thinking about her this weekend will be apparent when you call her. Women can read a guy who's "acting" aloof - you know that sense that the guy has been thinking too much about a call or date. Women have no defense against a guy who "is" aloof. Be the second guy and within 2-3 dates this "actress" just might show you one of the things that histrionic types tend to be really, really good at

Great advice from Sinistar..
One point that has been overlooked here. This woman is an accomplished ACTRESS. SHe is skilled at "acting ". She is also well rehearsed at creating emotional responses in her audience. You need to scratch her surface and connect with the 'real' person under her stage persona.
Your C&F should pull this off, together with leadership . I found that taking charge and leading is a fear buster, everytime.

If I have this correct, I believe that her emotional impact on you at the play triggered your initial connection with her.
I may be wrong BUT I sense that you are a little 'stage strucK' by her. Your anxiety is way too high her because you have awarded her too much value without even a latte together. That anxiety is 'woman repellant' . It also leads to your stumbling over words, dry mouth, shaky hands and stilted speech.

However I have dated professional singers and women from the performing arts and found them to be just the same as regular woman when their 'stage'
veneer is penetrated.

 

[The Grue]

Before Updating, let me make it clear that I am located in Europe, and thus, it is 11 pm(Monday night) here right now.

So, I called Irene earlier, around 2 in the afternoon, and she hasn't answered.

I had a feeling something like this might happen; that whole "early dinner" bit she mentioned was a bit worrying

Of course, I understand I am just a guy she has been talking to on FB, we haven't met or anything and she has nothing invested in the situation.

However, I really don't appreciate unanswered calls, especially when she was the one who initiated the matter of dinner.

I will see her on FB tomorrow(she works in an office and is almost always logged in), but I'm not sure how to handle things.

I think I need to point out her rude behavior, in a discreet way.

Furthermore, it is clear her interest is low. That may be because we have never met; I am just a few photos on FB to her.

In the meanwhile, I think I need to get some plates spinning....

 

[Tazman]

I think I need to point out her rude behavior, in a discreet way.

None of this is going to matter one iota to this lady, in fact, it will "annoy" her. As you mentioned, she doesn't have anything invested in this, she doesn't know who you are. Pointing anything out to her just elevates her more than she already is by you're "unsolicited" attention.

Don't contact her anymore, let her come to you. She most likely won't, so I'd just leave it alone entirely.

Do not, in any way show her that you are the least bit upset about any of this, it will most definitely make her see you as desperate.

You have to take responsibility for your own emotions. You already had a feeling things would evolve like this, don't try to hold her accountable for what you saw coming anyway. The good thing is your intuition was correct, it's a valuable tool, use it.

 

[Sinistar]

You've got oneitis.

Dude, let things run their course. If your message (hopefully just one or better yet none) was simple and non-threatening you'll be fine. When guys feel the need to correct or punish women (basically the tone you're giving off) it shouts "MY EXPECTATIONS ARE TOTALLY WHACKED".

We all tried telling you to not get to invested, do other things and we even warned you that she (and every other woman out there) can and will flake. We told you last week and now again today you're getting advice to stay off FB. As soon as you go on and she goes on it will be weird and women (who are normal) don't like weird. They feel pressured, watched, controlled, etc.

However, I really don't appreciate unanswered calls, especially when she was the one who initiated the matter of dinner.

Stop and think for a minute. Maybe she hasn't even seen your call yet. How many times did you call? Maybe you left a message - what did you say - did this tone of expectation come across? Heck, maybe she likes you and she's playing a bit of the game herself!

You are clearly in her frame right now. Stop it. Get your sh!t back together. What if she calls you back tomorrow and says hey lets go out Wednesday. Are you still going to chew her out - I bet not - because then the chance for intimacy will be back on right?

Spinning more plates is your answer. If you had three other prospects right now you never would have invested so much in this broad.

I also believe (if you left no message or a very simple low pressure message) that you will hear back from her soon - if you can dissappear for awhile and make no contact on FB for awhile and not screw it up.

You had her interested enough that she suggested dinner. Now look where you are. Is she really to blame?

 

[jophil28]

Here is a thought - I have encountered women who throw out ONE solid IOI and then expect that YOU will take over, set up a connect, and press down on the accelerator.
They figure that all they need do is send "the signal" and it is your job to drive and steer after that.
A few times I have just been cool about it and not jumped at the bait. Then I found that she coldly withdrew and the opportunity was lost and never regained. I was too cool, too early in the deal .
Then again some women leave the window open forever...
WHo knows?
You see, she has NO investment with you to speak of yet . IT is your job to build it and create a connect with her.
Generally ,I think that the best idea is to bite down on the bait when she casts it your way and take control by making a date for the next few days before she has time to go cold. It may be counter to DJ thinking but, you have nothing to lose if you do it in a manly way. IF she shows up for the date, she is interested .
If not, she was playing AW games and then you lose her number.

 

[The Grue]

2nd Update

First of all, thanks for all the advice.
I really wish I knew the stuff you guys are laying on me 15 years ago....

Anyway, I go out and get a drink after posting here at 11...
Come back around 1 or so....
Log on to FB, Irene pops out of nowhere and starts chatting me up.
She says she came home earlier and was going to bed.
Problem is we end up chatting for like half an hour.
Talked about all sorts of stuff; I was nor drunk but pleasantly inebriated(drank too much, too fast)

I joke about how we haven't actually spoken yet and she asks if I want to talk to her now(It was 1:30 am)

I tell her I'm occupied with my drinks, but that we'll talk some other time.
Did this because I didn't want to respond to a "request", get into her "frame" sort of thing...

I was OK with her, but I was sort of a smart ass and did actually make fun of her a bit.
It wasn't really polite, but it was late and I had a couple of drinks in me, so I said F@ck it!

End result... I think she wants me to ask her out...
either that or I'm out of my skull on the JackDaniels(nothing beats good old US bourbon!)

Anyway, I tell her that she needs to go to bed and I need to do stuff and I cut the chat at that point.
We had chatted for about 30 minutes or so.

Problem

I think I talked too much and you guys are right, I shouldn't have been on FB at all!
On the other hand, I think the bourbon made me a little more laid back, possibly even more lucid in a funny sort of way.
I had had about 3 drinks in an hour, and I was really mellowed-out.

I guess I will call tomorrow and see how things go?
However, games seems to work on this girl, maybe calling on Wednesday would be better.....

I gotta get some sleep now, I think I am ready to pass out...

Grue out....

Sorry about the rambling nature of the post.... I wish I could say it is only the alcohol....