Is the world coming to an end?

[vonbock]

DJVLADDY:
1. I do not know where you work at, but my faxes get done same day. Patients even show up at pharmacy and tell pharmacist to call my office right now and get me out of the room to refill the rx because they are waiting. I agree with you that doctors are soemtimes rude to the pharmacist. Reason why is we have to be stressed nice guys and kiss up to patients 24/7 otw they sue us for any little thing.

2. yes, I have plenty of patient who call at 3:00 am wanting refills of their meds cuz they ran out.

3. seasoned:nice to hear from a guy that experiences same thing I do. You are right, all of the rich bankers I see are married to some really ugly looking and overweight women.

4. ready: I know a buddy who is in the club business and even wanted me to get into with him. Even if a club doesn't do too well, you still sell enough alcohol and illegal substances to make a fortune.
Those repairmen , you are assuming they pay their fair share of taxes. 125$/hour x 2000 hours a year = 250,000 a year. Lets assume he only makes half that amount a year = 125k a year. He declares he only makes 30k a year so he take home almost 100k tax free. This is not including the markups on supplies he buys. Do you think an investment banker needs 11 years of school? By the way, I have friends who are garage door repairmen who make more than investment bankers. The bankers are getting hit hard by the loan defaults.

 

[SmoothTalker]

Are you ****ting me? Yes, air conditioning repair is where the real money is...?

Here is your first problem, 2000 hours a year? Not likely. Odds are he has to be 'at work' on call for like 16 hours a day, but most of those aren't actually working, so he's not getting paid. I mean depending on where he lives, he might not have any work 6 months out of the year.

Beyond that, why is it any easier for him to understate his income then any other small business owner. If he makes 100+k and declares 30, odds are he's going to have IRS problems pretty soon.

But if trades are so amazing, by all means, go right ahead.

 

[ready123]

the way I've seen the clubs work is that the promoters pocket the entrance fee and the club owners profit off the liquor. but the two go hand in hand. if the club is dead, nobody is gonna be buying alcohol. And I've seen some dead clubs this year where the bartenders are bored as hell (Tiger Lily, Joseph's Cafe)

and the HVAC repair, $125 is a service charge for the occasional odd hour or holiday work. But that charge is not an hourly wage so you can't multiply it by a 40 hour work week. They don't pull anywhere near 250k a year. That would be amazing. Most HVAC technicians make around 50-60k a year. And some of the unlucky ones actually make only 30k before taxes, the same as a phlebotomist, and that puts them in the working class tax bracket

I still think being a physician is one of the best careers out there. It's not as comfortable as an office job but the importance of the work and potential for self-fulfillment is great if it's your calling. If it's not your calling and you hate your job, take the plunge and switch careers. You'll be happier.

Investment bankers.... you knew it would be stressful when you chose to be one. They don't need 11 years of school but to become a successful banker, you need to get a bachelor's degree, go through a highly competitive interview process (more competitive than med school), work as a junior analyst for 2 years under strict scrutiny, go to business school, then return to your firm as an investment banker. Then you grind your ass off until you make partner, which is the end goal. I don't know how many years that takes. But like I said, I've heard stories of investment bankers getting heart attacks in their 30's from the stress. But then I've also heard of them throwing $300k weddings when they get married

 

[dakota]

since some people think repairmen is here the $$$$ is... were I live there is one washer/dryer/refrigerator guy.. he has now fixed over 500 dryers alone.... and he lives.. get this ... homeless.. no car, no phone, no house.. he sleeps in sleeping bags wrapped with plastic bags in the open.. in temps down to -20 f... he goes from town to town.. fixing the stuff.. hitching rides..etc. Now this is an extreme example.. but maybe the thing is.. this is his lifestyle.. a self employed guy who would rather live as he does than not work and accept government assistance.

 

[TheHumanist]

From what I know of Asian people (epecially chinese, Korean and Japanese) then tend to be pussified by their parents from a very early age by wanting their kids to be obedient, fear them and making them study hard so in the future they will get a good high paying job and take care of them when they grow old.

And as an Asian, I have to tell you the reason for the strictness is culture and not because the parents wants the kid to be rich just to take care of him. Parents are raised to raise their own kids the same was as they were raised, teach the kid to work hard, respect elders (including the older brother and sister), and value education. Sometimes it get a bit too much, disrespect to an asian parents they take it a lot further and trend to push it into a pissing match easier. Another large side-effect is sometimes it creates people who are hard working, kind, respectful, and intellegent, they lack confidence to stand up for themselves or fight for what they think when its time. Though many just come out without the lack of confidence issue and you have a very articulate and intellegent human being, especially if the parents figure how to balance strictness with some encouragement.


Now as for the college vs trade, I think if you want to go far an any career, I think you have to be good. To fix air conditioners, you have to put a lot of overtime, to be a doctor, you have to go through alot of schooling, to be a successful night club owner, you have to fight off a lot of competition.

Edit: To also add, from my experience with doctors, to follow Seinfeld's little joke, they move us from the big waiting room to the little waiting room... I think doctors aren't getting that much pushed around. Last time I check btw, the negative nice guy is the wimpy suck up, not the genuine nice guy who just cares enough to be friendly. Also for the asian good looking guy but choosing instead to focus on his schooling and so on, you might just be a frat boy and hook up with two girls a week if you were given those looks, but isn't it a good thing that a person given with good looks and so on still decided to focus on having a good future and a sound mind?

 

[vonbock]

1. back to refrigerator/ac guy - I had a AC guy come over to do some work and he was in a Mercedes. I don't think making 30k a year can afford a Mercedes.

2. TheHumanist : A fellow asian. Did you grow up with strict parents who molded you into being a subservant nice guy like me? I agree with your statement but it goes back to your line :"given those looks" to go to school for a sound mind. It goes back to the argument, do you really need school to be a success. My argument is no. College is an overhyped piece of paper. I know plenty of people with college degrees that went to work for jobs that didn't even need college. Some of the brightest minds in history never finished college.
1. George Washington
2. Benjamin Franklin
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Harry Truman5.
5. Famous mobsters who have done more girls and make more money than you all
6. Drug Kingpins
7. Club Owners
8. Convenience store owners
9. Liquor store owners
10. Bill Gates(he never finished college)

 

[seasonedplayer]

1. back to refrigerator/ac guy - I had a AC guy come over to do some work and he was in a Mercedes. I don't think making 30k a year can afford a Mercedes.

2. TheHumanist : A fellow asian. Did you grow up with strict parents who molded you into being a subservant nice guy like me? I agree with your statement but it goes back to your line :"given those looks" to go to school for a sound mind. It goes back to the argument, do you really need school to be a success. My argument is no. College is an overhyped piece of paper. I know plenty of people with college degrees that went to work for jobs that didn't even need college. Some of the brightest minds in history never finished college.
1. George Washington
2. Benjamin Franklin
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Harry Truman5.
5. Famous mobsters who have done more girls and make more money than you all
6. Drug Kingpins
7. Club Owners
8. Convenience store owners
9. Liquor store owners
10. Bill Gates(he never finished college)

No offence to the tradesman out there but if I applied the same discipline and work ethic as I did to college and the office, I would have a crew of 20+ plumbers working for me. Tradesman are the same guys that didn't even have the discipline to take 10th or 11th grade and are making out like bandits AND don't know how to manage their money

AND more to the point, we are on the 'sosuave' board so the major point me and Vonbock are making is that professional honest tax paying guys do not attract beautiful women

 

[ready123]

if you applied the same discipline to cultivating a working model of attraction and improving your social skills that you did to college, you'd see how funny your theory sounds

lose the victim mentality man. blaming your lack of game on the assumption pimps don't pay taxes and you do is ridiculous. it's worse than the guys who keep blaming their looks

and I don't know how it is in Sydney, but here in the US, tax evasion is a major felony. you get a felony on your record and your assed out trying to get hired anywhere except mcdonalds

that 30k is a mute point because like I said before, most HVAC repairmen make an average of 50-60k. That's enough to afford a beamer or Mercedes or whatever. if the guy has no savings, it wouldn't be a smart buy, but he could definately afford it

 

[TheHumanist]

1. back to refrigerator/ac guy - I had a AC guy come over to do some work and he was in a Mercedes. I don't think making 30k a year can afford a Mercedes.

2. TheHumanist : A fellow asian. Did you grow up with strict parents who molded you into being a subservant nice guy like me? I agree with your statement but it goes back to your line :"given those looks" to go to school for a sound mind. It goes back to the argument, do you really need school to be a success. My argument is no. College is an overhyped piece of paper. I know plenty of people with college degrees that went to work for jobs that didn't even need college. Some of the brightest minds in history never finished college.
1. George Washington
2. Benjamin Franklin
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Harry Truman5.
5. Famous mobsters who have done more girls and make more money than you all
6. Drug Kingpins
7. Club Owners
8. Convenience store owners
9. Liquor store owners
10. Bill Gates(he never finished college)

2. Well as one asian to another, I admit I been more lucky. My parents are still strict, I recall one time I get into a pissing match over food that she somehow took as a sign of disrespect and got a lot bigger than it should. Showing how the asian culture of respecting elders and other things still remains here. However, I do think I was raised a bit luckier than some kids as my parents are not as strict as many I met, but even those kids are pushing themseleves to become more assertive and bold as they grow. The parents gives them more pressure to get good grades, but they aren't wussies, but they aren't going being loud and obnoxious frat boys either which I think is a good thing. I do know some guys with strict parents that is a bit meek right now, but they are few compare that most of the guys who moving to be ambitious, mature, thoughtful, and sound-minded individuals even though everyone complains how much it sucked that they have to do so much homework and feel so much more pressure to do well as well as the other asian-american stuff (like did you attend Chinese/Vietnamese school?). In other words, while some did come out a bit too meek, many I know haven't and working hard in school.

Now for education. I want to point out first that your top three came long before universities came into prominence, most of them back then focus more on theology rather than teaching students nor scientific any research. Truman who came in the 20th century didn't go to college, but all the other presidents did. Famous mobsters, convenience stores owners, and liquor store owners may have made it wealthy without college, I'm pretty sure (less though for mobsters) that they still encourage their kids to aim for college. As for club owners, while you see many of them successful, you should look into how many that failed after trying. How many drug kingpins do you know? Finally, with Bill Gates and all of them have in common of those who got far even though they did not go through college is the fact that they are all very hard-working, intelligent men. Most people who only finish high school or dropped out aren't Bill Gates or the others. Bill Gates had a plan to drop out of college, others didn't.

Success in careers does require college, but it correlates with it. While there are many who got by well in trades or something else without it, they weren't directionless, unmotivated individuals. Of all the institutions, college creates the most amounts of informed and sound individuals (and I don’t mean just skills for work, but as individuals too), not everyone will come out well as it is said, you get what you put into it, but a lot more with it than without it. Could you and I go far without college, of course, but the chances increases far more with it, and if you or I decided to go to a different path, there better be a dam good reason with a good idea to go on that path and an even better plan to execute it.

 

[SmoothTalker]

vonbock, your list is pointless as already addressed by Humanist.


1. George Washington
2. Benjamin Franklin
3. Abraham Lincoln
-Irrelevant. Education then was not what it is now, and even still, I would suggest that for example if Franklin had training as an engineer, his inventions would have been far greater.

4. Harry Truman.
- Compared to how many other presidents that did have college education? Besides what makes him such a genius in your opinion, most people wouldn't put him in the top 10 US presidents.

5. Famous mobsters who have done more girls and make more money than you all
-Perhaps. I think some organized crime heads are probably educated, and even if they are not, I don't consider success obtained by murder, theft, violence and law breaking to be that impressive. If you hold these people up as role models you have problems.

6. Drug Kingpins
- See above. Not to mention 5 and 6 are both very rare cases.

7. Club Owners
- I think quite a few club owners are business people with MBA's and other degrees. Even if they are not, they could probably run it better if they were.

8. Convenience store owners
9. Liquor store owners
-Neither of these is particularly impressive and again, there's no rule that says only people without degrees can own these stores.

10. Bill Gates(he never finished college)
-Ah I love when people bring him up. The man is a genius alright, he got accepted into Harvard and could easily have graduated. That is not the same as the guy that dropped out of high school because he was either not smart enough or too lazy. And he only dropped out of college when his business was already starting to take off. He is the exception, not the rule, and if you want to see the typical person to hold up as an example of somebody without a college education, see either the working class or any third world country.

PS I'm surprised you didn't bring Einstein up, people always mention how he failed in school. That is actually completely false.

 

[ready123]

some counter examples from guys I know

5. Famous mobsters - I had a friend same age as me who got involved in the Triads when we were around 20. He'd go to clubs and people would bow to him, probably the type of lifestyle that appeals to you. He's now a fugitive hiding out somewhere in Asia and has been on the Orange County DA's most wanted list for the past decade for murder

6. Drug Kingpins - I had a friend who slanged tweek for 7 years out here in LA. At his peak he was making a G a day but ended up ruining a ton of peoples' lives and eventually became addicted to his own sht. He only cleaned up when he lost his girlfriend of 8 years and almost got deported. Ironically how he got his life back together was going to college to get a bachelor's degree. If you wanna live a life of paranoia where you can't trust anyone, become a drug dealer.

9. Liquor store owners - I have a friend whose family owns a liquor store out in Glendale. They don't ball it up at all. I remember him telling me their biggest seller was a animal key chain where when you squeezed it, a plastic bubble that resembled sht came out the a**hole. And he had a ton of stories about the bums he had to deal with on a daily basis. I met him in college, when he was sick of that sht, and trying to get a bachelor's degree so he could move on with his life. In speech class he did his persuasive speech on why owning a liquor store sucks

 

[vonbock]

smoothtalker:
1. I am using 1st 3 as examples of people who did things without having to go to school.

2. Truman: look at wikepedia and you will see Truman is listed as a top 10 president in many polls.

3. mobsters: hey they started Vegas, got President Kennedy elected, got the expiration date put on milk containers, and many other things that affect our every day life. They have to have some type of intelligence to do what they did.

4. Pablo Escobar: great example : he had more women than there are members of sosuave. People feared and respected him.

5. convenience store/liquor store : my next door neighbor has liquor store, scammed food stamps for cash, selling alcohol to the alcholics. He makes 3-4 times more than me. He used to own a topless club, treated his dancers like crap, and all the dancers loved and respected him.

6 third world country? Shoot you know how may dictators never had college education but is filthy rich by embezzling money. Girls flock to them like no tomorrow.


ready: Bythe way, are you asian too?
1. the triad guy : hey at least he had fun, enjoyed life to its fullest, and now living in Asia enjoying life and doing the same thing. All asians look alike, you think they will ever catch him?

2. drug dealer: shoot, you know how many addicts I have coming into my office addicted to xanax and painkillers and wanting refills. I have to kick them out all the time. I get just as much headache as drug dealer but less pay.

3. liquor store: my cousin in Orange County owned a gas station with alcohol. Man, made tons of money scamming food stamps and selling drinks to minors. If they got arrested, they pay a small fine and reopen under a different name. oh yea that cousin made so much money, whenever he went to the clubs, had 8-9 girls with him and he was buying drinks for everyone. Ran up tabs of 1g and no big deal to him.Did every single one of girls too.

 

[ready123]

yea, I'm Chinese, my roots are in the Fujian province, but I was born in LA

I look at all my gangsta friends and friends with criminal records, and their stories are more sad than anything else. My triad friend can never see his family again and lost all his friends in a heartbeat. That' s a pretty fvcked up situation to be in. I've got another friend who spent the whole 90's locked up. When he got out, he couldn't get his act together and went back to prison under the 3 strikes law. Eventually you just gotta grow up and get your sht togehter

that my other friend actually slanged for 7 years without getting caught was an anomoly. the typical curb time of a drug dealer here in LA is a year and half, meaning if you slang, you can expect to be arrested and locked up within a year and half

and I don't know how your cousin is getting away with it but what he's doing is criminal. you get caught selling alcohol to minors, your liquor license is supposed to get revoked. I don't know how he's getting it back. And honestly with all the underage DUI's here in Southern CA, I hope he gets caught and prosecuted

good luck with being a physician, even if it looks like you're feigning for power and glamour more than the chance to practice medicine. regardless, the world needs more doctors

 

[seasonedplayer]

if you applied the same discipline to cultivating a working model of attraction and improving your social skills that you did to college, you'd see how funny your theory sounds

lose the victim mentality man. blaming your lack of game on the assumption pimps don't pay taxes and you do is ridiculous. it's worse than the guys who keep blaming their looks

and I don't know how it is in Sydney, but here in the US, tax evasion is a major felony. you get a felony on your record and your assed out trying to get hired anywhere except mcdonalds

that 30k is a mute point because like I said before, most HVAC repairmen make an average of 50-60k. That's enough to afford a beamer or Mercedes or whatever. if the guy has no savings, it wouldn't be a smart buy, but he could definately afford it

to be quite honest, I feel like I shouldn't have to spend time and energy on my game. Before going to college, I thought women would naturally find a guy with 2 first class honours degrees instantly more appealing from an intellectual point of view and far more smart and witty. YET I FIND I STILL NEED TO PROVE MYSELF BECAUSE THE WOMAN TURNS TO THE RESTAURANT MANAGER FIRST.

I feel like I shouldn't have to waste my money on buying a very expensive car because women should naturally know that investment bankers make a lot of money. UNFORTUNATELY THEY DONT. THEY THINK I AM A BANK TELLER AND TURN THEIR ATTENTION TO THE LIQUOR SALESMAN

Yes, I can beat these guys if I work hard on my game. BUT I FEEL CHEATED THAT I HAVE TO START FROM BEHIND; MERELY BECAUSE I AM AN HONEST TAX PAYING GUY. I also dont have the energy to compete because I work so hard

The HVAC repairman makes 100k plus gets government benefits such as child bonuses and unemployment. PLUS credit is easy to get these days so he gets loans to support his lifestyle and can appear to the lay woman as being rich

HONESTLY I FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT AS TO HOW STUPID I WAS WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL THINKING I WOULD PREVAIL IF I WENT TO COLLLEGE - IT IS ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE

Lets face it, how many people do you know have been busted for tax felony? The government turns a blind eye as they need a strong black economy

 

[ready123]

you need to lose that sense of entitlement. except for those who were lucky enough to be born naturals, no one's exempt from having to work on their social skills. not even HVAC repairmen. just do it and get over with already. sht I had to do it in my early 20's. And I would've loved to have the money you have because I could've used it to improve myself 10 times as fast. And I wouldn't have had to parking lot pre-party before clubbing to save drink money

and it's getting wierd hearing someone treat paying taxes like it's a badge. where I live, it's normal to pay taxes, even the HVAC repairmen do it

 

[SayWord?]

Why do u care

 

[vonbock]

ready: I commend you, you are not the typical Chinese guy I know who just studies all the time but knows what goes on out there in the real world.

2. yes, we all need to work on our social skills, I agree with that. It is just sad that as a doctor, first thing a girl portrays you as, is a "nice guy".
As you know what happens to you if a girl portrays you as nice guy. So you have 1 strike against you there unless you are this one doctor I know who smokes, drinks, womanizer, and tatoo and I can't figure out how he became a doctor. I just know that I would not go to him if I was a doctor.
You say you wished you had the money in your early 20's like us, doctors don't make anything until they hit their 30's. I remember having to go to clubs before 10 to get in free, get free ice water, and drive by the long line of girls in beat up old truck with a cracked winshield. While gangster guy drives by in Toyoya Supra(remember those), carrying beepers, blows hundreds of dollars in drinks in that one night. Doctors have to look back and miss out on their 20's while everyone else gets to enjoy their 20's. You know I saved 10 peoples lives in the past month by diagnosing something early, takes one miss and hundreds of lives you save is worth nothing. All the money you think doctors make could be gone in a flash with one lawsuit.

 

[TheHumanist]

ready: I commend you, you are not the typical Chinese guy I know who just studies all the time but knows what goes on out there in the real world.

2. yes, we all need to work on our social skills, I agree with that. It is just sad that as a doctor, first thing a girl portrays you as, is a "nice guy".
As you know what happens to you if a girl portrays you as nice guy. So you have 1 strike against you there unless you are this one doctor I know who smokes, drinks, womanizer, and tatoo and I can't figure out how he became a doctor. I just know that I would not go to him if I was a doctor.
You say you wished you had the money in your early 20's like us, doctors don't make anything until they hit their 30's. I remember having to go to clubs before 10 to get in free, get free ice water, and drive by the long line of girls in beat up old truck with a cracked winshield. While gangster guy drives by in Toyoya Supra(remember those), carrying beepers, blows hundreds of dollars in drinks in that one night. Doctors have to look back and miss out on their 20's while everyone else gets to enjoy their 20's. You know I saved 10 peoples lives in the past month by diagnosing something early, takes one miss and hundreds of lives you save is worth nothing. All the money you think doctors make could be gone in a flash with one lawsuit.

You know most people who does trades does not become rich that easily, it's not like they didn't did backbreaking work equal to the people who actually bothered to study in college (in moderation too however, I'm not advocating the Asian Streotype of studying every minute is good either). Again you example of the liqour salesman and the nightclub owner I believe have to fight damn hard to get there avoiding tons of pitfalls getting the buisiness up and fighting off rivals in the process. To live the best quality of life, you have to be best there is, no matter what field you're in, even in the dishonest ones (while you know people who go by far doing what they do, don't forget how many are in jail right now doing the same thing). Or at least that's what I believe right now, I'm open for argument if you disagree.

I must agree with Ready on his assessment that you seem to be desiring for fame and power than anything else see you named drug lords, mobsters, corruption in systems and rationalized Ready's friend as having a time of his life in Asia where in actuallity he lost his friends and family in a heartbeat.

Nothing in life is guaranteed. The rich doctor can be completely ruined by a single ungrateful patient, but the con man can see the exact same thing by a single unexpected run in with a police officer.

Judging by what you said of how you missed out your 20's and saved 10 patients, I guess you feel disillusioned by what you expected from the medical field. I'm imaginging you are now in your 30's and became a well-off doctor, yet you live in fear of a single patient and look back to those people who took a much different path from yours. Despite you are rich and everything, you feel cheated that you have to go through so much to get to where you are with women calling you a nice guy and so on while you feel that others have done much less, especially the one who took a trade or corruption.

I would also like to mention that you may be seeing sampling bias in your observations of people, saying how you wasted your 20's while "everyone else gets to enjoy their 20's." I don't think the majority of people in their 20's are gangster guys riding in Toyota Supra then or now. Also your argument that the doctor is always at a disadvantage with women because she also assumes he's a nice guy, in a earlier post that you remarked that your parents raised you to be a "subservant nice guy" are you sure that the women been saying that to you because you're a doctor, or because you have that "aura" that people immediately sense about you that made you taken less seriously.

Seasoned player, you may have two first class honour degrees, but what do you do with it? What skills did you have with it? A decorated paper is still a piece of paper. That paper is only suppose to reflect what you acquired or what you already done not the end result. That restaurant manager you lost to still have to get there with a lot of work too, the difference is he shows it with his restaurant, you have a piece of paper. Action speaks lounder than words. So does what results you have to show.

 

[ready123]

Vonbock, I'm pretty sure I was raised the same way as you. Only difference is I fell apart during college while you kept the momentum going. So count your blessings man. Your residency pay was around 40k and generally speaking in the US, anything above 35k is middle class. A lot of entry level jobs for college graduates in other fields offer less than that. There was a time when I had to get by on 20k a year here in LA, which was fvckin ridiculous

Back to your problem, social conditioning lies and tells you if you work hard and get the job and the money, women will come to you. Obviously it's not true but that still doesn't take away value from the career you chose.

A lot of it is because your nice guy assumptions are wrong. If a woman is not attracted to you, they're basing it on the way you're coming across socially and not your career. If you need to switch careers to be happy, do it but I guarantee it's not gonna solve your problems with females. You need to put together a working model in your head of what attracts women. Then you gotta socialize and figure out what you're doing wrong and what works for you. It's a long process but it'll take only a fraction of the 11 years you put in to become a doctor to get results. And that's when you come out ahead