Is self-esteem an external factor?
- Thread starter Rocko90
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Its probably both, and there isn't really any right or wrong way to derive your self esteem.
I just think its important to understand what "life" is from a big picture perspective and that its not fair or just all the time, it just IS and once you understand that, you wont get bogged down in a depressive state nor will you be high as a kite but you'll be more balanced as you go through positive or negative sh*t in your life. You wont worry so much about, why this, why that, this isnt fair,
i have no luck, etc..
You'll start THINKING less and start DOING more and that will make you a happier person in general.
I just think its important to understand what "life" is from a big picture perspective and that its not fair or just all the time, it just IS and once you understand that, you wont get bogged down in a depressive state nor will you be high as a kite but you'll be more balanced as you go through positive or negative sh*t in your life. You wont worry so much about, why this, why that, this isnt fair,
i have no luck, etc..
You'll start THINKING less and start DOING more and that will make you a happier person in general.
Alex DeLarge
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You shouldn't rely on things you cannot control (external factors) for your self-esteem. Rely on things you can control and things you can do.
For example, make yourself go to the gym, study hard, or anything else you wish to achieve and let those things be the main locus of your self esteem.
external factors should only be something that is beneficial to your self-esteem, not detrimental. (For example: When you get a bonus question on an exam, you gain points if you get the correct answer, but if you get the wrong answer you don't lose points.. That's how external factors should affect your self esteem.)
For example, make yourself go to the gym, study hard, or anything else you wish to achieve and let those things be the main locus of your self esteem.
external factors should only be something that is beneficial to your self-esteem, not detrimental. (For example: When you get a bonus question on an exam, you gain points if you get the correct answer, but if you get the wrong answer you don't lose points.. That's how external factors should affect your self esteem.)
Jeffst1980
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You've touched on something very important.
On these boards, we constantly refer to the core values of manhood as a reminder of how we should live our lives. We strive to internalize concepts such as having freedom from outcomes, living a life of abundance, viewing ourselves as a "prize," etc. because we know that these are the values that, when communicated to others, present us in the best possible life.
The truth of the matter, however, is that these are IDEALS, and NOT truly attainable characteristics for the majority of us. Sure, there may be a few naturals that default to these characteristics without giving any thought to them, but most of us really need to monitor ourselves to avoid slipping into AFC patterns.
The DJ philosophy of self esteem is that it comes from within and is not dependent on any external factors whatsoever- as you mentioned. This means that any experience- whether bad or good-- should not change the way the you feel about yourself. I made a few posts about this a few years ago--my best advice was to devote your time and energy to become an "expert" in something that allows you to assume a "leadership" position. My rationale was (and is) that if you avoid venues where you are naturally thrust into the "beta" role (e.g. a club where you know no one) and seek out venues where you are a de facto "alpha" (e.g. teaching english as a second language classes, hosting events, performing music before an audience), you will communicate the traits we speak of with ease.
However, although these strategies will certainly allow you to PROJECT confidence, I now seriously question that it is EVER possible to completely divorce yourself from outcome or a need for approval. Unless you are a sociopath, you are going to feel social pressure and a desire to be accepted. Similar to approach anxiety, this doesn't go away. The "boost" you feel after sleeping with a new girl is the high of validation, which is the enemy of the DJ ideal. Remove the source of validation, and you experience the "slump" symptoms that you describe. This happens to EVERYONE- even (especially!) the pick up "gurus."
The best you can hope to do is AIM for the ideal of "core confidence" and learn to "project" this confidence by working on body language, tonality, and social skills. Learn to nip approval-seeking behavior in the bud- not because you don't care about approval, but because you want to APPEAR not to care. In time, you will automatically default to the "correct" behavior; however, this doesn't necessarily mean that your "inner game" issues will be fixed.
I was once a huge proponent of "inner game" development, because it made logical sense: Fix your self-esteem, and your outer game will improve as a consequence. However, it doesn't work that way in practice. You don't "fix" inner game issues, you learn to deal with them.
I learned about game almost ten years ago. It hasn't appreciably changed my self esteem, but it has made me much more successful with women. That's pretty much all "game" is designed to do. I still get approach anxiety and sometimes have to FORCE myself to make approaches. I still hit slumps from time to time and get bummed out. I still have an ego that wants people to think I'm cool. That's human nature, though--any man that claims he's so evolved that he doesn't have these problems is a liar. The reason we look the the ideals espoused on this forum for guidance is so we can learn to "mask" these unfavorable traits and present our BEST selves to others.
On these boards, we constantly refer to the core values of manhood as a reminder of how we should live our lives. We strive to internalize concepts such as having freedom from outcomes, living a life of abundance, viewing ourselves as a "prize," etc. because we know that these are the values that, when communicated to others, present us in the best possible life.
The truth of the matter, however, is that these are IDEALS, and NOT truly attainable characteristics for the majority of us. Sure, there may be a few naturals that default to these characteristics without giving any thought to them, but most of us really need to monitor ourselves to avoid slipping into AFC patterns.
The DJ philosophy of self esteem is that it comes from within and is not dependent on any external factors whatsoever- as you mentioned. This means that any experience- whether bad or good-- should not change the way the you feel about yourself. I made a few posts about this a few years ago--my best advice was to devote your time and energy to become an "expert" in something that allows you to assume a "leadership" position. My rationale was (and is) that if you avoid venues where you are naturally thrust into the "beta" role (e.g. a club where you know no one) and seek out venues where you are a de facto "alpha" (e.g. teaching english as a second language classes, hosting events, performing music before an audience), you will communicate the traits we speak of with ease.
However, although these strategies will certainly allow you to PROJECT confidence, I now seriously question that it is EVER possible to completely divorce yourself from outcome or a need for approval. Unless you are a sociopath, you are going to feel social pressure and a desire to be accepted. Similar to approach anxiety, this doesn't go away. The "boost" you feel after sleeping with a new girl is the high of validation, which is the enemy of the DJ ideal. Remove the source of validation, and you experience the "slump" symptoms that you describe. This happens to EVERYONE- even (especially!) the pick up "gurus."
The best you can hope to do is AIM for the ideal of "core confidence" and learn to "project" this confidence by working on body language, tonality, and social skills. Learn to nip approval-seeking behavior in the bud- not because you don't care about approval, but because you want to APPEAR not to care. In time, you will automatically default to the "correct" behavior; however, this doesn't necessarily mean that your "inner game" issues will be fixed.
I was once a huge proponent of "inner game" development, because it made logical sense: Fix your self-esteem, and your outer game will improve as a consequence. However, it doesn't work that way in practice. You don't "fix" inner game issues, you learn to deal with them.
I learned about game almost ten years ago. It hasn't appreciably changed my self esteem, but it has made me much more successful with women. That's pretty much all "game" is designed to do. I still get approach anxiety and sometimes have to FORCE myself to make approaches. I still hit slumps from time to time and get bummed out. I still have an ego that wants people to think I'm cool. That's human nature, though--any man that claims he's so evolved that he doesn't have these problems is a liar. The reason we look the the ideals espoused on this forum for guidance is so we can learn to "mask" these unfavorable traits and present our BEST selves to others.
At this point you probably have a woman (or multiple women) chasing you around, calling you all the time, wanting to be with you. So let's talk about how to KEEP a woman interested in you once you have her. This is BIG! There is nothing worse than getting dumped by a woman that you really, really like.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
zekko
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The way you define success can also be helpful in building confidence. Like in the bootcamp where you collect rejections. If you get rejected you succeed because you took action. If you get the number you've also succeeded. Setting yourself up to succeed is a winning mindset.Jeffst1980 said:
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
get this bull**** off this forum. i don't have the time to deaw ith the woe is me bull**** today.
at one point in my life i was a ****ing crackhead. I was homeless at one point in my life. I was over 240 pounds at one point in my life. I went 3 years without a date at one point in my life
i'm a millionare, i'm less than 10% body fat, and i'm married with a son. take that. Not only that, i'm doing exactly what I want to do in life.
Arrogant? probably. But I am the ****. I know I'm a catch. Nothing changed about me from a decade ago when the troubles in my life started to now but my approach to life. If you think i 'm a prick you can kiss my black ass, I'm really not in the mood today.
you can do anything, anything, you put your mind to. don't ever let anyone ever tell you otherwise. no one said it would be easy, but it will be worth it.
if you are not getting the results you want in life, it's because you are not going about it the right way or you don't want the results bad enough. there is no other alternative. all this other bull**** you posted is coping skills for you sucking at life
if you want to spend the rest of your life explaining away why you can't do what you want or why you have low self esteem while you get drunk listening to Carl Thomas songs, then by my guest. But I refuse to allow that **** to be spewed on this forum. not going to happen, not today.
backbreaker said:
but on the road to success (women, business, nice body, etc) there are countless pitfalls and if you dont know how to cope with that you'll just roll over, give up and go cry in a corner. I think that was his point.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
you just answered your own question.
the only way you can gain self esteem in life, to feel good about yourself, to feel like the prize, is to overcome the obstacles that are in the way between you and getting what you want.
I'll say this and I have to go to my grandmothers wake. Say you want to lose weight and become ripped.
It's not, you getting ripped or looking in the mirror that gives you the self esteem. It's the sacrifices that you mad,e the getting up in the morning when you don't want to, the busting your ass in the gym everyday, that allows you, that gives you the stated self esteem.
no one knows how to cope with obstacles, that's why they are called obstacles. if you knew how to cope with them, they wouldn't be a henderence.
to cope with obstacles in your life requires you to "level up" so to speak. to become better in some way shape or form. To over come my drug addiction i had to develop a will power that 95 out of 100 Americans will never possess. And i ****ed up time and time a gain, but i eventually got it right.
I would go on and on but i dont' have time. I just hate defeatist attitudes. I don't associate with people that have that attitude in real life, I deal with people who tell me is and is not possible... i avoid those people at all cost.
the only way you can gain self esteem in life, to feel good about yourself, to feel like the prize, is to overcome the obstacles that are in the way between you and getting what you want.
I'll say this and I have to go to my grandmothers wake. Say you want to lose weight and become ripped.
It's not, you getting ripped or looking in the mirror that gives you the self esteem. It's the sacrifices that you mad,e the getting up in the morning when you don't want to, the busting your ass in the gym everyday, that allows you, that gives you the stated self esteem.
no one knows how to cope with obstacles, that's why they are called obstacles. if you knew how to cope with them, they wouldn't be a henderence.
to cope with obstacles in your life requires you to "level up" so to speak. to become better in some way shape or form. To over come my drug addiction i had to develop a will power that 95 out of 100 Americans will never possess. And i ****ed up time and time a gain, but i eventually got it right.
I would go on and on but i dont' have time. I just hate defeatist attitudes. I don't associate with people that have that attitude in real life, I deal with people who tell me is and is not possible... i avoid those people at all cost.
What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.
You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Jeffst1980
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Please read my post again, instead of giving a knee-jerk reaction to things that I never wrote.backbreaker said: