Is Pook's book still good? Don't we need PUA things?

[nelysses]

I read some books and watched some videos but there was a thing that i couldn't understand. I don't wanna **** lots of girls. I don't wanna hook up with them. I don't want one night girls. I just wanna a women that i love like my parents. They are married for maybe 30 years but they still love each other.
One of my friend is in a relationship and it's like this. They are 20 but they are in a relationship for 6 years like married
I Just want a girl that i Woll be happy with that. in Other case i try to impress her, making some strategies like chess bla bla. But that's not me.

Until i read Pook i was thought problem was me. Then i read POOK and that was awesome. So do we need pua right now?
im in med school, I was 135kg but now im 115 and im still losing weights, I was masturbating 5 times a day now im fixing it. So I trying to be a good version of me but while I'm making myself do i need reading pua things.
I read a book but it's about tactics. It says play with girls emotions like cold and hot. Give intention one day but other day behave her like you don't know her... Also cold readings bla bla.
Do i need them? Also should I read rule hooks of Neil stratus?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Most PUA is about being someone you're not, acting like a Chad, pretending to be loaded and impress women into sleeping with you.

What you want is on this forum. You already showed improvement, dropping weight, taking action. You know what you want, so you're already one step ahead. Instead of PUA courses and manuals, I would go to the source and read about human psychology, human behaviour and body language.

The ability to read people, especially women, will help you more than the seducer mask the PUA offer.

 

[Kotaix]

By definition, women who are ok with one night stands and just hookup culture are not going to be able to pair bond. Also, really hot women are not going to be able to pair bond unless they're very young.

PUA is mostly exploitative, selling snake oil shortcuts to men. But there are no shortcuts, you have to put in the work.

 

[Ricky]

To me one of the best things the PUA movement did was to take people who were shy and give them better social skills.

 

[SW15]

There's a case to be made that PUA and the red pill were more of a Gen X thing. A lot of the top former and current PUA/red pill guys were Gen X'ers: Mystery, Neil Strauss, Tom Torero, Roosh, Roissy (Heartiste), Rollo Tomassi, Richard Cooper, and Aaron Clarey.

Among the Millennials, it's more difficult to name red pill/PUA guys: Playing with Fire, Alexander Grace, Andrew Tate, and Myron/Walter of Fresh & Fit.

Wheat Waffles is Gen Z and black pill.

 

[Reincarnated]

I think there are a lot of elements of the "classic" PUA era that can be applied today, in both building typical seduction skills as well as building a lifestyle that attracts. I'm pretty sure Neil Strauss even said something along the lines of "becoming a PUA doesn't attract, building a lifestyle does".

One of the characteristics from that time period I've always been drawn too / fascinated by is the artistic element they brought (I guess hence the A in PUA). So much refined thought and knowledge was built up by those guys, it's hard to ignore the continuing relevance.

 

[CornbreadFed]

There's a case to be made that PUA and the red pill were more of a Gen X thing. A lot of the top former and current PUA/red pill guys were Gen X'ers: Mystery, Neil Strauss, Tom Torero, Roosh, Roissy (Heartiste), Rollo Tomassi, Richard Cooper, and Aaron Clarey.

Among the Millennials, it's more difficult to name red pill/PUA guys: Playing with Fire, Alexander Grace, Andrew Tate, and Myron/Walter of Fresh & Fit.

Wheat Waffles is Gen Z and black pill.

The Divided Era-

They were two distinctive communities at some point. The Red Pill was its own niche' community with Black American channels like O'shay Duke Jackson, Sand Man, Aaron Clarey, other passport bro type channels, and Richard Cooper was RP at some point. The PUA movement was more mainstream but began to see a decline in popularity.

As it declined, a lot of PUAs merge into the RP space and that's where you got mid 2010s RP such as Return of Kings, LFA, Donovan Sharpe, 21 Studios, Coach Red Pill, and CGA where they mixed in PUA and the Women are evil energy. This is when you started seeing terms such as red and blue pill and beta vs alpha male popularized.

Alt Right Era-

After Trump's election combined with Obama fatigue, the alt right became more of an influence in the Red Pill because it served as a valuable pipeline for young males and it started hosting alt right platforms such as Laura Southern, Jordan Peterson. However, it was ripe pickings for the Cancel/MeToo movement, and it lost the brown segment of the Redpill as allies due to it being Alt-Right. Jordan Peterson was able to prevent being labeled as Alt-Right and became the king of the hill after the smoke cleared.

Self-Improvement Era-

Jordan Peterson's helped kick start this part of RP and was the main face of it for later end of the mid 2010s. During this time, you saw a lot of channels adapt their style and began pitching self-improvement as an opener before sliding into subtle RP content to avoid being deplatformed. Jordan Peterson eventually falls, and this is when Kevin Samuels comes in to take his place. Furthermore, this is when the black manosphere begins to claw back into the mainstream RP.

Pandemic Era-

Kevin Samuels started the golden era for the Black RP and brought in a lot of Black & Brown followers. Meanwhile, Fresh and Fit are born during the pandemic and take over as the leaders of the Red Pill after Kevin Samuels passes away. When the Pandemic cleared, the former Jordan Peterson audience and Alt-Right audience took a beat down from lockdowns and the cancel movement. In addition, content creators such as Rollo and Richard Cooper started to tone down their content out of fear of being deplatformed.

Andrew Tate and the Civil War Era-

While Fresh and Fit are popping off, the other side of the Red Pill is having a civil war. You now have the Black Pill in the mix, PUA content is trying to resurge with dating app pickup and bar pickup, the alt-right is trying to resurge, and the self-improvement era is collapsing. This is when you see Richard Cooper leave the manosphere and platformers like Rollo drift towards the Fresh and Fit side. As the pandemic comes to an end, Fresh and Fit start to decline, but Andrew Tate sweeps in and keeps the Red Pill from collapsing.

Post Andrew Tate and Today-

The downfall of Andrew Tate is the final nail in the coffin for Fresh and Fit. As the program declined, they resorted to reviving the alt right to pivot away from their brown audience into the neglected black pill & alt right market. It failed and Fresh and Fit ended up being demonetized. In addition, the father of the RP Rollo gets humiliated on live stream and further deteriorates the Red Pill name. Now the Red Pill is divided between alt right grifters like JustPearlyThings, self-improvement hacks like Valuetainment and other remnants picking up the pieces from Fresh and Fit. In addition, a lot of former Red Pill channels have disassociated with it or moved underground.

What is next for the Red Pill? God knows what, but I do not think it is dead.

 

[SW15]

Interesting point of view on the the last 10-12 years of the Manosphere/red pill/PUA.

I would say that pure PUA pre-dated the notion of a Manosphere. Eric Weber wrote "How to Pick Up Girls" in 1970. Peak Ross Jeffries was the 1990s, and Mystery started coming up in the late 1990s and entered the mainstream in 2005 with "The Game". Circa 2000, Roosh discovered pickup artists online and started absorbing, then started the DC Bachelor blog around 2003-2004, which led to the Roosh V blog and his first book, "Bang" in 2007. There were other seducers/pickup artists in the 1990s-2005 era, including David DeAngelo and Doc Love. DeAngelo's e-book "Double Your Dating" was published in 2001. Doc Love was writing in the 1990s-early 2000s too, as I think "The System" came out in the 1990s. I read excerpts of "The System" in the early 2000s and he was talking about guidelines around landline telephone use. SoSuave launched somewhere in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

There was a lot going in PUA prior to 2009-2015, which is roughly where you started your excellent post.

The Divided Era-

They were two distinctive communities at some point. The Red Pill was its own niche' community with Black American channels like O'shay Duke Jackson, Sand Man, Aaron Clarey, other passport bro type channels, and Richard Cooper was RP at some point. The PUA movement was more mainstream but began to see a decline in popularity.

As it declined, a lot of PUAs merge into the RP space and that's where you got mid 2010s RP such as Return of Kings, LFA, Donovan Sharpe, 21 Studios, Coach Red Pill, and CGA where they mixed in PUA and the Women are evil energy. This is when you started seeing terms such as red and blue pill and beta vs alpha male popularized.

It can be said that this era was 2009-2015.

Return of Kings started in 2012, though Roosh (one of the founders) had been blogging since at least 2003 or 2004.

21 Studios/The 21 Convention dates back to 2006.

Why do you think the PUA movement started to decline around 2009-2015? Roosh and Heartiste were still doing well in this era. I read "Day Bang" (2011) in this era. Rollo Tomassi started making a name for himself in this time, and "The Rational Male" published in October 2013, becoming an instant classic. "The Rational Male" has aged pretty well if you read it in 2023.

Post Andrew Tate and Today-

The downfall of Andrew Tate is the final nail in the coffin for Fresh and Fit. As the program declined, they resorted to reviving the alt right to pivot away from their brown audience into the neglected black pill & alt right market. It failed and Fresh and Fit ended up being demonetized. In addition, the father of the RP Rollo gets humiliated on live stream and further deteriorates the Red Pill name. Now the Red Pill is divided between alt right grifters like JustPearlyThings, self-improvement hacks like Valuetainment and other remnants picking up the pieces from Fresh and Fit. In addition, a lot of former Red Pill channels have disassociated with it or moved underground.

What is next for the Red Pill? God knows what, but I do not think it is dead.

The biggest change I've seen since roughly 2015 has been the rise of the black pill. The black pill seems to have overtaken the red pill. In the early days of Return of Kings (2012-2014), the red pill was more of the dominant ideology and the black pill was rather niche.

There are a number of female grifters in the space. JustPearlyThings is a great example. There are also some other female grifters who are in the space to a certain extent. Courtney Ryan moved from solely style/fashion to cover mating environment issues. She says mainly red pill stuff, though you can hear blue pill things in her work. Billie Rae Brandt does mainly red pill shorts. Brett Cooper is more political than mating issue focused, but you'll even hear from her on mating topics with something like an 80% red pill/20% blue pill type view, similar to Courtney Ryan's ideology. Courtney Ryan, Brett Cooper, and Billie Rae Brandt all get followers from thirsty guys because they are cute to attractive level females.

 

[SW15]

Pook caters to a generic, mass produced sloppy category of woman, mostly interchangeable. A lot of advice is on execution, making moves, and displaying confidence are still relevant. Stats show zoomers almost never go to bars or pubs, but most advice written was for the girl at the bar type. Partially out of date, but you should know exactly what you're doing when you find the girl you want to keep. This is good for dates with practice women, but a poor lifestyle choice long term.

I have not read the entirety of the Book of Pook but the parts that I have read didn't seem that outdated to me. The Book of Pook was written in the 2000s.

In the last 15 years or so, the bar scene has changed. Before the mid-2000s, going out to bars and meeting people was quite important. Now? Not so much. Starting with when online dating websites got de-stigmatized in the mid-2000s, bars started to evolve. The swipe apps escalated all the trends that were appearing on dating websites in the mid-2000s to early 2010s. In the last 15 years or so, bars have become more of a place to host your 1st-2nd dates from a tech-based initial interactions (swipe apps or social media DMs). The market for meeting people in bars has diminished in the last 15 years.

 

[Barrister]

The short answer: Yes, all of Pook's teachings are still good and can get you women.

The long answer: men continue to, on a whole, become more and more blue or black pilled, and women continue to become more disconnected from reality and live in the world of social media where the number of "likes" and orbiters they can get on those platforms the better they feel about themselves. Most people, not just men, are soft and helpless. There are very few leaders, men who are strong-willed and are single-minded on obtaining their goals. Most just live in a state of general listlessness, don't work out, have some job that basically barely pays the bills and lets them get drunk at the bar every weekend, don't dress worth a sh1t, and then wonder why women aren't attracted to them. It honestly is pretty pathetic all around for both the sexes.

And yes, this site reflects this and has changed quite a bit in the 5+ years I have been an active member. You used to constantly have field reports here and solid advice about how to get women in the situations guys would bring to the forum. We still have that, but to a much lesser extent. Most of what gets posted here is just word salads about dating "theory" (many times by those who have dubious, at best, success with women) more than it is sound advice.

Despite all of that, this is still one of the best places on the internet for men to come to wake up from that listlessness. As Atom Smasher used to say - this place can be mined for gold. Pook's teachings certainly qualify as such.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Yes, most of Pook´s teachings still hold up. PUA has a good thing here and there but you should focus more on self improvement.

 

[mikedee]

Yes, most of Pook´s teachings still hold up. PUA has a good thing here and there but you should focus more on self improvement.

Self improvement only wont get you laid, you gotta go out there and talk to girls, make mistakes, etc. I find that the best way to learn and get quality girls is cold approach, but to be able to pull girls like this way you gotta spend some time on self improvement, thats right.