NINJA PIMP
Banned
I have my own views but am curious what you guys think.
Is Monogamy Natural?
- Thread starter NINJA PIMP
- Start date
Re:
Fortunately, we have freedom, so that we can live as we choose. Some people can choose to be with 1 person. Some people choose to be with many.
On a personal/emotional/rapport level, there's ultimately only a handfull of girls we'll be THAT in tune with.
On a sexual level, we all know we want 1 more than 1 girl, if it's for 1 night or many nights. But perhaps we don't want a relationship with her. That's ok, too.
I believe in the traditional sense, marriage USED to work. When the male led the family the female followed to care for it. Much like my CEO/manager illustration. Marriage doesn't provide the 'attractive' qualities it once used to. Today it seems it's done for 2 reasons...
1. To pacify the girl, most men cave because she isn't wasting anymore time with a man that won't give her the permanent relationship she requires to guarantee her safety.
2. Because it's the "normal" society thing to do. Go to school. Get a job. Get married. Have kids. Since the beginning of 'systems', people feel comfortable when they fall in line. Women who go past 30 without a permanent relationship feel insecure. Men who haven't gotten laid by 18 or 20, feel insecure. When you fall in line, it feels safe, because we're pitched that the world is NOT a safe place, so by following others, at least we know we do no worse than they have and we are safe because "the path" has already been walked.
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Marriage can only work if it works for both parties, and men have to be honest about what they expect to get...from ANY relationship in order for it to be worth their time.
A-Unit
Fortunately, we have freedom, so that we can live as we choose. Some people can choose to be with 1 person. Some people choose to be with many.
On a personal/emotional/rapport level, there's ultimately only a handfull of girls we'll be THAT in tune with.
On a sexual level, we all know we want 1 more than 1 girl, if it's for 1 night or many nights. But perhaps we don't want a relationship with her. That's ok, too.
I believe in the traditional sense, marriage USED to work. When the male led the family the female followed to care for it. Much like my CEO/manager illustration. Marriage doesn't provide the 'attractive' qualities it once used to. Today it seems it's done for 2 reasons...
1. To pacify the girl, most men cave because she isn't wasting anymore time with a man that won't give her the permanent relationship she requires to guarantee her safety.
2. Because it's the "normal" society thing to do. Go to school. Get a job. Get married. Have kids. Since the beginning of 'systems', people feel comfortable when they fall in line. Women who go past 30 without a permanent relationship feel insecure. Men who haven't gotten laid by 18 or 20, feel insecure. When you fall in line, it feels safe, because we're pitched that the world is NOT a safe place, so by following others, at least we know we do no worse than they have and we are safe because "the path" has already been walked.
-----------------------------------------
Marriage can only work if it works for both parties, and men have to be honest about what they expect to get...from ANY relationship in order for it to be worth their time.
A-Unit
In the Eighteenth Century, a French architect named Claude-Nicolas Ledoux designed for his "ideal city" the brothel to end all brothels. Within its walls, one would be free to indulge in every form of debauchery that the human mind could conceive.
The idea behind it was essentially to allow young men and women to get sex completely out of their system and prime them for the platonic love of family. By having exhausted the possibilities of sexual pleasure, Ledoux thought they would then seek out deep emotional and spiritual bonds, something they could never do while subject to the distractions of sexual desire.
Monogamy may have evolved as a survival strategy - one male could protect and care for one female and her offspring better than he could for many - but for social animals, like humans, its appeal no doubt lies in the sense of intimacy that mindless anonymous sex can't provide.
The idea behind it was essentially to allow young men and women to get sex completely out of their system and prime them for the platonic love of family. By having exhausted the possibilities of sexual pleasure, Ledoux thought they would then seek out deep emotional and spiritual bonds, something they could never do while subject to the distractions of sexual desire.
Monogamy may have evolved as a survival strategy - one male could protect and care for one female and her offspring better than he could for many - but for social animals, like humans, its appeal no doubt lies in the sense of intimacy that mindless anonymous sex can't provide.
So pimp its scary
Master Don Juan
Yes and no.
There is the lover : The guy whose genes are so good that he just has to share with all the women that he can. Women see his good genes and try to conquer the lover and make him their own, (Simply put)
Then there is the provider : He is the monogomous type that typically sticks around to raise the lovers children.
There is the lover : The guy whose genes are so good that he just has to share with all the women that he can. Women see his good genes and try to conquer the lover and make him their own, (Simply put)
Then there is the provider : He is the monogomous type that typically sticks around to raise the lovers children.
Mjfan12
Don Juan
dude, were animals.
The vast majority of animals want to bang as many females as possible to spread their genes as much as possible.
Look at apes, one guy the alpha, bangs a whole group of females.
One of my professors provided a good example about why we have the society we do today.
Kings back in the day had herems of girls they could do.
The kings didnt want the rest of the men to have acess to these women, so he made up bull**** laws on how a man should stay with only one woman.
That makes tons of sense to me.
The vast majority of animals want to bang as many females as possible to spread their genes as much as possible.
Look at apes, one guy the alpha, bangs a whole group of females.
One of my professors provided a good example about why we have the society we do today.
Kings back in the day had herems of girls they could do.
The kings didnt want the rest of the men to have acess to these women, so he made up bull**** laws on how a man should stay with only one woman.
That makes tons of sense to me.
Depends if you're looking at a person's individual nature. It's in some people's nature to follow their sexual instincts, sleep around and for them monogomy is unnatural. Others who follow their emotional nature may crave monogomy.
Sure, in the animal kingdom it's very rarely natural, but humans are more evolved than animals and have a very different nature (well, some do).
Sure, in the animal kingdom it's very rarely natural, but humans are more evolved than animals and have a very different nature (well, some do).
undesputable
Master Don Juan
good point but men with gifted genes or not just want to go around to have sex, not necessarly to spread genes and have kids all over.
Skydiver43127
Senior Don Juan
In my opinion monogamy, or exclusivity, implies ownership of another person. And this idea is rotten in its core.
In social terms, I think monogamy has sense in a society with low level of globalization, where securing a stable sex partner for everyone is crucial for the community's survival. Just think abouyt it: only a century ago the big cities where you can approach 20 new women a day and do it for the rest of your life just didn't exist. With the changed circumstances, the moral concept of monogamy is just falling apart because it has no basis.
On a more emotional level, I believe "monogamy frame" thinking is the thing that makes men pursue and harass women after they break up, husbands beat their wives instead of leaving them, men turning AFC or even killing themselves because of losing "that one girl", women stay with men who are jerks and so on.
Actually, I believe the fact that I have this kind of moral views was the main think that allowed me to "soak up" the advice I saw in David D's programs and turn from a complete AFC (or wuss, how he calls it), to someone very skilled in dating, for a very short time. First, I find value other than geting laid in developing these skills, and second, I have no self-doubths on the issue - I really think dating more makes you a better person.
Hell, just the other day I was thinking on this topic cause I met in the bus a very cute and interesting chick, made a perfect approach (I sill mess up a thing or two most of the time), saw that she was totally into me, but then got the "jelous boyfriend" reject. The real one - I can feel when it's the fake one. I know compared to the issues I mentioned above this seems ridiculously small deal, but who cares. I was irritated.
In social terms, I think monogamy has sense in a society with low level of globalization, where securing a stable sex partner for everyone is crucial for the community's survival. Just think abouyt it: only a century ago the big cities where you can approach 20 new women a day and do it for the rest of your life just didn't exist. With the changed circumstances, the moral concept of monogamy is just falling apart because it has no basis.
On a more emotional level, I believe "monogamy frame" thinking is the thing that makes men pursue and harass women after they break up, husbands beat their wives instead of leaving them, men turning AFC or even killing themselves because of losing "that one girl", women stay with men who are jerks and so on.
Actually, I believe the fact that I have this kind of moral views was the main think that allowed me to "soak up" the advice I saw in David D's programs and turn from a complete AFC (or wuss, how he calls it), to someone very skilled in dating, for a very short time. First, I find value other than geting laid in developing these skills, and second, I have no self-doubths on the issue - I really think dating more makes you a better person.
Hell, just the other day I was thinking on this topic cause I met in the bus a very cute and interesting chick, made a perfect approach (I sill mess up a thing or two most of the time), saw that she was totally into me, but then got the "jelous boyfriend" reject. The real one - I can feel when it's the fake one. I know compared to the issues I mentioned above this seems ridiculously small deal, but who cares. I was irritated.
the_afc
Don Juan
Its quite tricky the way you set the choises :
A person can love only one at a time. I belive that is true.
BUT also that we are animals. We love only one at a time but there are more than one such "times". Accually there are many.
The_afc
A person can love only one at a time. I belive that is true.
BUT also that we are animals. We love only one at a time but there are more than one such "times". Accually there are many.
The_afc
RaWBLooD
Master Don Juan
Of course its not natural, its cultural. when you find someone that is hot (close your mouth back up, HOT TO YOU), doesnt bore u when u small talk, shares some of your interests but NOT, definitely NOT all of them, and you both have lives other than spending time together, but are able to spend time together everyday with each other. You are able to be monogamous, and because of todays society, you should be.
this is universal.
Anyone that (based on the society i live in (cultural) : has experienced the dating scene and) cant eventually find a monogamous relationship has problems.
*edited (ya monogamy isnt natural but its logical[/i]*
this is universal.
Anyone that (based on the society i live in (cultural) : has experienced the dating scene and) cant eventually find a monogamous relationship has problems.
*edited (ya monogamy isnt natural but its logical[/i]*
Last edited:
RaWBLooD
Master Don Juan
not really what u describe is a bad relationship, its really based on mutual liking and ability to work out the problems.
this is not monogamy but people that cannot accept change, and have false ideas of "fate" or "destiny" ( im not saying fate and destiny is false im saying people that believe in it misinterpret it thinking that person is their fate where fate is what brought them to break up)
how did this situation end?
RaWBLooD
Master Don Juan
I've had some crazy ideas of siring like 50-100 kids, but the women that i would have sex with would not make me monogamous just a means to further my dream, but with todays science i could just have them all be surrogate mothers using my wifes eggs.
monogamy is natural as far as i am concerned, but so is polygamy, its not a strict guideline
monogamy is natural as far as i am concerned, but so is polygamy, its not a strict guideline
Skydiver43127
Senior Don Juan
Well, that was generally the end. The whole situation was like that:
1. She sits next to me.
2. I notice a butterfly-shaped ring on her finger and say "Hey, doesn't that butterfly ever get tired of sitting there!?"
3. Continue the conversation in C&F manner, accusing her of torturing butterflies, commenting something on her shoues and so on, meanwhile learning some stuff about her, including where her stop is.
4. Minute before her stop I ask "Hew, give me your number so we can stay in touch".
5. Got reject "Sorry, I don't give my number, I have a jelous boyfriend".
6. I make a face, say "Pity", and continue the conversation for the minute left.
Next time this happens I'll make some C&F comment about the girl being a slave in her boyfriend's harem, not being able to even receive phone calls.
Didn't have time to think about that on the spot.
Anyway, back on the topic, I actually agree with you. The biological drives and emotional needs can be satisfied with both monogamy and dating many women. And the "**** everything that moves or you're a fag" is just as bad as "My destiny is to be with this one, if you're against destiny, you're evil".
It's just a matter of personal values. "freedom" and "developement" are very high in my list and "security" and "stability" are very low, and that' takes effect in many areas of my life, including dating.
1. She sits next to me.
2. I notice a butterfly-shaped ring on her finger and say "Hey, doesn't that butterfly ever get tired of sitting there!?"
3. Continue the conversation in C&F manner, accusing her of torturing butterflies, commenting something on her shoues and so on, meanwhile learning some stuff about her, including where her stop is.
4. Minute before her stop I ask "Hew, give me your number so we can stay in touch".
5. Got reject "Sorry, I don't give my number, I have a jelous boyfriend".
6. I make a face, say "Pity", and continue the conversation for the minute left.
Next time this happens I'll make some C&F comment about the girl being a slave in her boyfriend's harem, not being able to even receive phone calls.
Didn't have time to think about that on the spot.Anyway, back on the topic, I actually agree with you. The biological drives and emotional needs can be satisfied with both monogamy and dating many women. And the "**** everything that moves or you're a fag" is just as bad as "My destiny is to be with this one, if you're against destiny, you're evil".
It's just a matter of personal values. "freedom" and "developement" are very high in my list and "security" and "stability" are very low, and that' takes effect in many areas of my life, including dating.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Monogamy isn't in a man's biological best interests, nor is it in a woman's. It is however the best form of raising children since the resource investment in raising a child to adulthood is so great for human beings. The survival of our species in the past dictated that we educate our young to increase their survivability. Sexual selection would make physical and psychological characteristics beneficial for that survivable dominant attractors for breeding. The problem arises in that the male best able to share parental investment resource responsibilites in child rearing is not always congruent with the best genetic stock. Men and women innately know this and contrive social dynamics to compensate for it (i.e. marriage, committment, etc.).
a difficult guy
Don Juan
Monogamy is part natural, part cultural.
As much in the animal kingdom as in the Human one.
When monogamy occurs in Nature, it is a survival strategy.
When monogamy occurs between human beings, it is also on a deeper level a survival strategy but it's mostly a cultural pattern we've been fed.
It's a condition for social stability and organization matters. Women wouldn't make babies with men who can't protect them and bring the food at home. If men would mate with let's say, 5 different women a week and make babies out of these relationships, there would be a lot of abandonned children, orfans and such. Now a government can't live like that, can't control a society like that, having thousands of homeless/parentsless children on their own.
On an other level, men produce sperm in large quantities everyday as opposed to women, who don't have such fertility and reproducing potential. Men can therefore spread their genes everywhere and everyday, the women cannnot.
Monogamy is a construction for social stability and regulation.
As much in the animal kingdom as in the Human one.
When monogamy occurs in Nature, it is a survival strategy.
When monogamy occurs between human beings, it is also on a deeper level a survival strategy but it's mostly a cultural pattern we've been fed.
It's a condition for social stability and organization matters. Women wouldn't make babies with men who can't protect them and bring the food at home. If men would mate with let's say, 5 different women a week and make babies out of these relationships, there would be a lot of abandonned children, orfans and such. Now a government can't live like that, can't control a society like that, having thousands of homeless/parentsless children on their own.
On an other level, men produce sperm in large quantities everyday as opposed to women, who don't have such fertility and reproducing potential. Men can therefore spread their genes everywhere and everyday, the women cannnot.
Monogamy is a construction for social stability and regulation.
diplomatic_lies
Master Don Juan
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Sh!tting in your bedroom and sniffing each other's butts is also natural. What's this obssession with natural?
We're not animals, we're humans. There's a pretty good reason why humans have become so advanced, despite the fact we're one of the weakest species in existence.
We're not animals, we're humans. There's a pretty good reason why humans have become so advanced, despite the fact we're one of the weakest species in existence.
hmm
Ideally, I'd like to have both a girl that I have an emotional connection with, and the freedom to screw around with as many girls on the side. The 1 girl I have a connection with, I'd be able to stay faithful to on an emotional level (i.e. I wouldn't worry about falling for a random ONS), and she'd allow me the freedom to act out my animal instinct to copulate with as many girls as possible.
That will probably never happen, though.
I dislike the institution of marriage. Even conventional LTRs feel wierd to me. I can't turn off my instinct and desire to flirt with girls, so being "exclusive" really doesn't jibe with me well.
As such, I'm probably going to end up a life long bachelor. This, however, is not something I'm afraid of. I can get my emotional fulfillment from family and friends, and still pursue carnal fulfillment into old age.
Ideally, I'd like to have both a girl that I have an emotional connection with, and the freedom to screw around with as many girls on the side. The 1 girl I have a connection with, I'd be able to stay faithful to on an emotional level (i.e. I wouldn't worry about falling for a random ONS), and she'd allow me the freedom to act out my animal instinct to copulate with as many girls as possible.
That will probably never happen, though.
I dislike the institution of marriage. Even conventional LTRs feel wierd to me. I can't turn off my instinct and desire to flirt with girls, so being "exclusive" really doesn't jibe with me well.
As such, I'm probably going to end up a life long bachelor. This, however, is not something I'm afraid of. I can get my emotional fulfillment from family and friends, and still pursue carnal fulfillment into old age.
RaWBLooD
Master Don Juan
sorry i take back my position, the fact that i want to sire 100 kids is mostly based just on an instinct i have, therefore polygamy is natural and monogamy is cultural.
I just wanted to point out whats natural isnt what we do these days, ie fighting to resolve problems with other people, hunting our food instead of exchanging a piece of currency to get a package wrapped up so we can take it home, and technology in general, all that stuff is artificial.
Monogamy is definitely not natural, it is totally artificial, And you can see that if we relied on natural there would be very few men in our world that would sire children because the woman would only choose the true alpha males, and with todays speed of movement (ie a jet from here to australia) there would really be very few men giving all the genes.
I just wanted to point out whats natural isnt what we do these days, ie fighting to resolve problems with other people, hunting our food instead of exchanging a piece of currency to get a package wrapped up so we can take it home, and technology in general, all that stuff is artificial.
Monogamy is definitely not natural, it is totally artificial, And you can see that if we relied on natural there would be very few men in our world that would sire children because the woman would only choose the true alpha males, and with todays speed of movement (ie a jet from here to australia) there would really be very few men giving all the genes.
