Is it Biology, Evolution, Science, that we guys always have to do the approaching?

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

That we guys have to make the first move and all the other moves, starting the conversations, ask the girl out, initiating the dates and the relationship, overall, initiate everything, or just initiate everything in the beginning, doing the pursuing, chasing.
Most people never bother to fully explain this, they never discuss the logic behind all of this, people will say "Thats just the way it is", and most commonly people will say "It's part of being a Man, Man Up, Be a Man, Grow a Pair" seriously, where is the logic in it?
Why is going after what you want and knowing what you want a Masculine, Manly thing, why is taking charge, control, initiative, all Masculine, Manly things, traits? Where is the logic behind all of that?
People argue, say all the time by nature guys are more aggressive, well i agree with that to an extent, yes we are naturally more aggressive when it comes to combat, fighting, violent, defense, but it's an entire different story in social-situations, etc. Guys can be more aggressive, assertive in other parts, areas of life but not with women.
So is it Biology, Evolultion, Science as to why we guys always or almost always have to do the approaching, initiating, or is it more Society, Culture? If it is Science, Biology, Evolution, then it would be easier for me to accept and deal with.
To be honest, I really often feel like instigating violence with other guys, guys who annoyingly, frustratingly tell me and other guys all the time to "Man Up, Be a Man, Grow a Pair, Grow some Balls", because those sexist phrases get so damn annoying, it gets annoying, frustrating, on how life, society, culture, expect us guys to toughen it up all the damn time, like I would like to prove to life, society, culture, that I have a Spine, that I have a Grown Set of Balls by instigating violence for standing up for myself. So, where is the logic in guys having to make the first move, ask the girl out and initiate the date and relationship, doing the pursuing, chasing? Why is going after what you want, taking charge, initiative, control, part of being a Man, Masculinity? where is the logic in that?
I do it because I have to, not because I want to, because I hate being rejected with a huge passion, i see it as a chore, burden, just because i'm going after what i want does not mean i get to control the outcome, because girls get to have the final say, they just have to welcome or deny advances, they just have to approve of the date and relationship, they have "Veto Power" they don't need confidence, they don't need high self-esteem, they don't need social-skills or conversation-skills, people-skills, they can be immature, bratty, have no life, have no passion or hobbies, they can be shy, quiet, socially-awkward, boring, they can have the behavior, personality of a nice-guy that always finishes lasts, gets rejected, and still attract guys, be insecure, but guys can't. Some other guys share my opinion about this, they say "I bet if I was a girl, I would have had a boyfriend a very long-time ago" A guy can keep approaching girls, asking them out constantly and still keep frequently getting rejected, meanwhile a girl can just wait, true 98 or 99.9 percent of the guys that approach, hit on her, will be loser guys in their girls eyes, guys she does not want, but the right guy is bound to come along sooner or later" I don't care if I would have to endure pregnancy, periods, childbirth, because I would rather have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, seriously, I don't logicalyl see how we guys should be lucky, fortuneate to be born male, that we have life easier than girls, women, the dating and relationship scene easier, i don't see why, girls don't need confidence, but guys do, guys have to have "game", but girls don't, girls just have to wait and stand still, be hot, cute, pretty, look good, or just be average, decent looking.
Another thing I hate it about it too is that if a guy keeps getting rejected all the time, he has to fix, change, improve many things, traits, qualities about himself, even if he is just being himself, it's always a guy's fault, it's never a girl's fault, girls never have to take responsibility for the dating/relationship scene. Girls are told to "wait and the right guy will come along", so what if we guys get to be pro-active, and not wait around? I still see that as a chore, burden, as work to do, i hate getting rejected with a huge passion and i hate having to move on to the next girl, and the next one, over an over again, i hate how girls do not owe me anything, but it's not like that the other way around, girls are allowed to want or need a boyfriend to feel better about themselves, to complete their lives, for validation, but guys are not allowed when regarding wanting a girlfriend. Sometimes I dream, fantasize, about beating up a girl's boyfriend out of anger and jealousy, frustration, mainly the bad-boy's, military guys, jocks, the ****y, talkative, outgoing, loudmouth guys, after all, male animals fight eachother when competing for females, you should know that by watching the Discovery Channel or Animal Planet, sometimes I wish we human males were like that, it would be easier than just talking and starting conversation, because you would not need good social-skills, conversation-skills for that. Because since we guys have to approach and start the conversation, start talking first, we can accidentally talk about something or bring up something boring, weird, lame, unattractive, when it comes to attracting people, it's very easy to accidentally make a mistake when socializing, overall, talking to them, you can accidentally bore them, creep them out, make them uninterested with your words, sentences, social-skills, conversation-skills, but since girls don't have to approach, it pretty much does not matter how a girl speaks, talks, the words and sentences that come out of her mouth, a girl does not have to worry about talking or sounding stupid, weird, lame, boring, with her words, but guys do, even if the guy is confident within himself, is not walking on eggshells, he could still turn the girl off with the way he talks, and yes that means the girl was not the right one for him, but still, it's easier to be visually, physically appealing to someone than it is to be mentally, verbally, socially-appealing to someone.

 

[MisterD]

It is biology, and evolution.

Men do the hunting. It's just how it is. We're also more logical in our thinking so, when we see something we want, the logical thing is to go after it.

Women aren't wired that way. They think "ohh, he's hot. i would totally bang him. i'll let him come to me though. text me first, call me first, set up dates"

To be perfectly honest, I like it that way. I like being the one to make moves. That means I only go after the ones I like.

It's not like women who get approached by any dude with a pulse, including men she's not attacted to.

I see what I like and go after it.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

It is biology, and evolution.

Men do the hunting. It's just how it is. We're also more logical in our thinking so, when we see something we want, the logical thing is to go after it.

Women aren't wired that way. They think "ohh, he's hot. i would totally bang him. i'll let him come to me though. text me first, call me first, set up dates"

To be perfectly honest, I like it that way. I like being the one to make moves. That means I only go after the ones I like.

It's not like women who get approached by any dude with a pulse, including men she's not attacted to.

I see what I like and go after it.

So what if the overwhelming, vast majority of the guys that are approaching the women, are random creepers, losers, etc.? Women can just easily shoe them away. Women can be shy, quiet, introverted, socially-awkward, insecure, be boring, not have things going for them, have no life, and still easily attract a guy as long as she is decent, average-looking. A guy can keep constantly approaching women, no matter how big his balls are and still always get rejected, because he will have to fix, change his approach, that shows that guys have to change, fix, improve themselves, but not women, women are already fine the way they are.

 

[zekko]

It's biology.

I've watched several nature shows about birds lately, and it reminds me of the dating game, even though we're mammals. The male birds do these elaborate mating dances, displaying their bright feathers and their moves, while the female just sits and watches. She gets to choose which of the males she will allow to mate with her.

It's kind of similar with humans, the guys put the work in, builld themselves up, self improve, sharpen their game, build their skills, build their confidence, become bold, get their act right, put in the work, and the woman gets to say "yes" or "no". It's just the way it is.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

It's biology.

I've watched several nature shows about birds lately, and it reminds me of the dating game, even though we're mammals. The male birds do these elaborate mating dances, displaying their bright feathers and their moves, while the female just sits and watches. She gets to choose which of the males she will allow to mate with her.

It's kind of similar with humans, the guys put the work in, builld themselves up, self improve, sharpen their game, build their skills, build their confidence, become bold, get their act right, put in the work, and the woman gets to say "yes" or "no". It's just the way it is.

yeah, women don't need much going for them as long as they are hot, cute, pretty, good-looking, they don't need to have a life, they don't need confidence, they don't need high self-esteem they don't need to have things going for them, but we men need to have a lot going for us.
Although i'm wondering if it is literally true for every living organism, animal species, vertebrates and invertebrates in which the male does the pursuing, chashing, has to do the work, initiate, is it that way for literally all animal species?

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Basically, it is okay for girls to get validation from guys but not the other way around. We guys have to find ways to be comfortable, content, and be in love with our own life, we have to get our validation from life, and have things we are up to in our life be validating us. Success with women, girls and success in life are similiar.

Just as girls, women won't go out of their way to bring guys dating, relationship, love success, or sexual success, life does not go out if it's way to bringing anyone life success. Just as a guy's love life, dating and relationship life is his chore, burden, responsibility, to make it the way he wants it, a person's life as a whole is their responsibility to make it the way they want it(only applies to guys). If we guys want to be successful with girls, women, it makes sense for us to have long-term goals for our lives that inspire us and that we are moving toward, no matter how slowly. If we guys do this, we'll get our validation from life rather than girls, women.

For example, let's say there is a guy who is a Video-Game Designer for a Large Company, it was easy for him to allow his life to get into a rut. Day after Day he'd go to work, design, program, come home, watch TV, and go to Bed. He had no goals, no direction. He became passive with his life and, not surprisingly, with women, girls. He blamed his company for his lack of employment of his job, and blamed women for his lack of a love, relationship, dating, sex life. His future looked like it would be just his past. He looked to women for validation in his life, because he couldn't find it anywhere else, and when they didn't validate him, he became depressed. Thus the cycle got worse:

The more depressed he became, the more he wanted women to make him feel validated, and predictably, the less attractive he became. The less attractive he became, the fewer women validated him and the more depresed he got.
This was the state he was in when he came into when he was seeking advice, complaining about his lack of success with girls, women. The advice he was given was that he has to set goals for his life. He was told he had to go to a local bookstore and get a book on goal-setting, and got him to really look at what he wanted his life to be like in 10 years, five years, one year. He also was told to write down goals that inspired him, and to put them into his date book where he'd see them often. As he began to get excited about what was possible for him in his life, the cycle began to break apart. He started getting his validation from his life, rather than girls, women.

This made him more attractive to women.
Rather than wanting to have a girlfriend so he could have a life, he began having a life that validated him, whether girls, women were in it or not. Naturally, women, girls, were intrigued by his passion for his life, and wanted to be a part of it. He also had to make more male friends, guys have to be extroverts, girls don't have to, if they(guys) have little or no friends, they are screwed, if a girl is that way, introverted, she won't be screwed. He was also advised to make more male friends. He tended to have many female friends or little to no female friends, or few or no male friends. There is nothing wrong with having female friends, but there are two kinds of female friends: the ones we guys want to date and be in a relationship with, have sex with but don’t want us, and the ones we don’t want to date, be in a relationship with, not have sex. When a guy has many girls, women in his life that he wants to date, be in a relationship with or sexually but who only want to be friends with him, it’s hard on his confidence.

He was always around women, girls who didn’t want him in a dating, relationship or sexual-way, and this made him feel undesirable. It convinced him that women, girls only wanted him as a friend, which really meant that girls, women didn’t want him as a boyfriend.
Being around these women, girls got him into the habit of being nonsexual friends with desirable girls, women, rather than being their lover. He began treating women, girls like friends and they treated him the same way. So the guy had to stop spending so much time with girls, women he desired, wanted but who didn’t want him back, desire him back, and starting spending more time with guys, men.
Because his male friendships were able to validate him without putting down his sexuality or showing him that he was undesirable.
He found he could get a kind of support from men, guys, he could never get from women he desired who insisted on being just "friends". This validated him and made women's, girl's reactions to his approach less disturbing.

Women, girls are attracted to guys, men who have passion and fire for their lives. They aren't any more interested in prodiving guys, men, the validation for their lives than you are for theirs(that I disagree with, most guys, men, don't care, we are proud to make women, girls feel happy, give them validation, or just don't mind, don't care).
When a guy, man has goals, male friends, and a life that inspires him, he'll be validated by what he is up to, and women, girls will want to be a part of his life. Women, girls don't need that, It won’t matter(but I want it to matter) to the guy is they say yes or no, reject him, when he approaches, makes the first move, asks her out, seduces and goes for that first kiss. He’ll be validated by his life and easily be able to move on to the next girl, woman, well that I really hate, despise, loathe, hate having to move on, I hate how women do not owe men anything but we men owe women everything or just something.

If a guy's life is lonely and meaningless, that makes a guy look desperate, needy, clingy, insecure, pathetic, a loser to girls, women. A guy has to have something he is into, that gives his life meaning, above and beyond dating, relationships, love, sex. If a guy is trying to get meaning for his life out of interactions with girls, women, they will always notice it and reject him instantly, be repulsed by it.(God damn women for having this 6th-sense of theirs, i hate how they have to be so damn intuitive) Guys too, won't respect that guy.
I understand, already know why girls, women are attracted to rich guys, because subconsciously, women, girls, want a provider for her and her potentially future kids, i don't blame them for that, but girls, women, are attracted to guys, men who are successful in life and many of these guys, men and are not rich themselves, don't have money.
Here it is, girls, women, are attracted to, like successful guys. It is true they are attracted to money but that is not the whole story. They are attracted to guys who are passionate about their lives and have fire and drive. Some of these guys have money, some of them don't. Money is less important than being a dynamic guy, man, tackling his life head-on.

We've all seen the garage-band guitarists who are able to get dates and girlfriends, hook-ups, sex easily, eventhough they never play anywhere except but in local bars. Their passion for something in their lives makes both these kinds of guys, the guys with money and the guitarists, more attractive to girls, women.
Along with passion, women, girls are very attracted to guys who have deep social connections. In essense, girls are attracted to guys who have social-status, which means a guy has plenty of friends, both guys and girls, is very outgoing, is frequently participating in social activities and is involved in several different social-circles.

I’m not gonna walk through an entire life-overhaul here, but from what I’ve found out, read, unfortuneately, the same principles for guys being successful with girls, women are the same principles for life success, I wish they were 2 separate things, issues. Because a woman's success with men is just that only, success with men.

It also makes sense to act with an outcome in mind, not just with girls, women, but also in every other area of your life. It makes sense to see life as a number’s game, like the lottery, to not take the events of life personally and pursue more than one project at a time. It makes sense to be willing to walk away from work or business situations that aren’t paying off, just as it makes sense to be willing to walk away from girls, women. And it makes sense to make life work for you, just as it makes sense to make dating and relationships, sex work for you. Keeping these dating and relationship principles in mind as you design your life will help you life with passion and a purpose, mission, goal, and success. You’ll be able to use the principles of planning and following through, in creating a life you are passionate about.

When you are passionate about your life, and care about something other than dating, relationships, a girlfriend, sex, you won’t be desperate. Men, guys become desperate when they are lonely. This especially happens to guys who don’t have any friends of either gender or just not many friends at all. If we guys don’t have buddies we can kick back and really relax with, we should get some. Having male friends makes interactions with girls, women less important sources of love and validation. It will be much easier for a girl, woman to trust us and be relaxed once she knows that we are not desperate for attention.

See all the work we guys have to do?

Girls, Women, don't have to do this.

They just have to be pretty, cute, decent, hot, average-looking, thats pretty much it.

 

[Tiguere]

this approaching thing is a very recent phenomenom.

dont forget that for thousands of years our female mating partners were picked by our parents.

do you want to go back to pre-arrange marriage?

exactly.....so be lucky and glad you are free to approach female strangers because our ancestors dreamed of a day where they can walk freely and select any woman they desire.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Hey, Ihateinitiating, do us a favor and break up your stuff into paragraphs with spacing between them. Not many people are going to read what looks like an explosion in a soup factory.

Just look at what you wrote. Who wants to do all the work of deciphering that? Why make people work to read your stuff?

Please consider making it easy to read.

 

[ka_mate]

Hey, Ihateinitiating, do us a favor and break up your stuff into paragraphs with spacing between them. Not many people are going to read what looks like an explosion in a soup factory.

Just look at what you wrote. Who wants to do all the work of deciphering that? Why make people work to read your stuff?

Please consider making it easy to read.

Yes I totally agree with this. I'm usually one who is happy to read longs posts but seriously to go all english teacher on your ass, use paragraphs

 

[sstype]

this approaching thing is a very recent phenomenom.

dont forget that for thousands of years our female mating partners were picked by our parents.

do you want to go back to pre-arrange marriage?

exactly.....so be lucky and glad you are free to approach female strangers because our ancestors dreamed of a day where they can walk freely and select any woman they desire.

Good point Tiguere. We have more freedom now to choose, but the dynamic hasn't really changed much. Women still seek "protection" just as much now as they did back then. Their selection criteria of course has evolved over time. Back then it was strictly "can you provide for me and my children"

Now with most women economically independent, they look for other indicators such as social status, high net worth (since working women preferably seek to date/marry UP, not at their level), and physical attributes.

To answer the OP's question, yes at a basic primal level....men are the pursuers. In every culture on the planet, the man is expected to pursue. In almost every species of animal, the male pursues.

To feminism's credit, they did try to make it easier for men by empowering women to approach and make the first move.... you still won't find many women willing to take the lead. It's just not in their nature....even most men still find it weird if a chick makes the first move.

 

[Sofomore]

Yea dude I cannot read a wall of text. Go back and edit it so I can read it.

 

[YAboi]

This is initiatorhater08 in other words a banned troll.

 

[Burroughs]

That we guys have to make the first move and all the other moves, starting the conversations, ask the girl out, initiating the dates and the relationship, overall, initiate everything, or just initiate everything in the beginning, doing the pursuing, chasing.
Most people never bother to fully explain this, they never discuss the logic behind all of this, people will say "Thats just the way it is", and most commonly people will say "It's part of being a Man, Man Up, Be a Man, Grow a Pair" seriously, where is the logic in it?
Why is going after what you want and knowing what you want a Masculine, Manly thing, why is taking charge, control, initiative, all Masculine, Manly things, traits? Where is the logic behind all of that?
People argue, say all the time by nature guys are more aggressive, well i agree with that to an extent, yes we are naturally more aggressive when it comes to combat, fighting, violent, defense, but it's an entire different story in social-situations, etc. Guys can be more aggressive, assertive in other parts, areas of life but not with women.
So is it Biology, Evolultion, Science as to why we guys always or almost always have to do the approaching, initiating, or is it more Society, Culture? If it is Science, Biology, Evolution, then it would be easier for me to accept and deal with.
To be honest, I really often feel like instigating violence with other guys, guys who annoyingly, frustratingly tell me and other guys all the time to "Man Up, Be a Man, Grow a Pair, Grow some Balls", because those sexist phrases get so damn annoying, it gets annoying, frustrating, on how life, society, culture, expect us guys to toughen it up all the damn time, like I would like to prove to life, society, culture, that I have a Spine, that I have a Grown Set of Balls by instigating violence for standing up for myself. So, where is the logic in guys having to make the first move, ask the girl out and initiate the date and relationship, doing the pursuing, chasing? Why is going after what you want, taking charge, initiative, control, part of being a Man, Masculinity? where is the logic in that?
I do it because I have to, not because I want to, because I hate being rejected with a huge passion, i see it as a chore, burden, just because i'm going after what i want does not mean i get to control the outcome, because girls get to have the final say, they just have to welcome or deny advances, they just have to approve of the date and relationship, they have "Veto Power" they don't need confidence, they don't need high self-esteem, they don't need social-skills or conversation-skills, people-skills, they can be immature, bratty, have no life, have no passion or hobbies, they can be shy, quiet, socially-awkward, boring, they can have the behavior, personality of a nice-guy that always finishes lasts, gets rejected, and still attract guys, be insecure, but guys can't. Some other guys share my opinion about this, they say "I bet if I was a girl, I would have had a boyfriend a very long-time ago" A guy can keep approaching girls, asking them out constantly and still keep frequently getting rejected, meanwhile a girl can just wait, true 98 or 99.9 percent of the guys that approach, hit on her, will be loser guys in their girls eyes, guys she does not want, but the right guy is bound to come along sooner or later" I don't care if I would have to endure pregnancy, periods, childbirth, because I would rather have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, seriously, I don't logicalyl see how we guys should be lucky, fortuneate to be born male, that we have life easier than girls, women, the dating and relationship scene easier, i don't see why, girls don't need confidence, but guys do, guys have to have "game", but girls don't, girls just have to wait and stand still, be hot, cute, pretty, look good, or just be average, decent looking.
Another thing I hate it about it too is that if a guy keeps getting rejected all the time, he has to fix, change, improve many things, traits, qualities about himself, even if he is just being himself, it's always a guy's fault, it's never a girl's fault, girls never have to take responsibility for the dating/relationship scene. Girls are told to "wait and the right guy will come along", so what if we guys get to be pro-active, and not wait around? I still see that as a chore, burden, as work to do, i hate getting rejected with a huge passion and i hate having to move on to the next girl, and the next one, over an over again, i hate how girls do not owe me anything, but it's not like that the other way around, girls are allowed to want or need a boyfriend to feel better about themselves, to complete their lives, for validation, but guys are not allowed when regarding wanting a girlfriend. Sometimes I dream, fantasize, about beating up a girl's boyfriend out of anger and jealousy, frustration, mainly the bad-boy's, military guys, jocks, the ****y, talkative, outgoing, loudmouth guys, after all, male animals fight eachother when competing for females, you should know that by watching the Discovery Channel or Animal Planet, sometimes I wish we human males were like that, it would be easier than just talking and starting conversation, because you would not need good social-skills, conversation-skills for that. Because since we guys have to approach and start the conversation, start talking first, we can accidentally talk about something or bring up something boring, weird, lame, unattractive, when it comes to attracting people, it's very easy to accidentally make a mistake when socializing, overall, talking to them, you can accidentally bore them, creep them out, make them uninterested with your words, sentences, social-skills, conversation-skills, but since girls don't have to approach, it pretty much does not matter how a girl speaks, talks, the words and sentences that come out of her mouth, a girl does not have to worry about talking or sounding stupid, weird, lame, boring, with her words, but guys do, even if the guy is confident within himself, is not walking on eggshells, he could still turn the girl off with the way he talks, and yes that means the girl was not the right one for him, but still, it's easier to be visually, physically appealing to someone than it is to be mentally, verbally, socially-appealing to someone.

Interesting

A lot of what you say forms the basis of Patrice O Neal's comedy...that he as a man has (had) to jump through hoop after hoop...nice truck (hummer), big house, hobbies, interesting conversation, 2000 gallon fish tank...just to impress some stupid biatch high school drop out with a fat azz that just graduated from beauty academy for hair dressing.

But at the end of the day men want the puzzy more than anything women want out of men so the imbalance will remain.

the only thing that will change this is widespread, government health monitored (as in amsterdam) legalized prostitution...that would change the game...say bye bye to jumping through hoops, no more flakes, and no more dates....fvck that!!....i'm getting me a clean, disease free jenna haze lookalike to fvck the sh!t out of...

problem solved...my head is clear...back to business

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Yea dude I cannot read a wall of text. Go back and edit it so I can read it.

i fixed, edited it now, put spaces.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Would you mind doing the original post too? You might get more guys to participate. Your post #6 in this thread looks great and is easy to read even though it's long.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Would you mind doing the original post too? You might get more guys to participate. Your post #6 in this thread looks great and is easy to read even though it's long.

doing it as in how? start my own thread on that subject?

 

[bcolon]

doing it as in how? start my own thread on that subject?

He means adding spaces and paragraphs in your first post in this thread.

 

[Onlyliveonce]

My experience with women that approach me has been they are messed up in some way, usually an attention seeker that wants free drinks or a BPD wacko. I feel more comfortable making the approach, using my own judgement. The pain of being rejected has long since passed. You do the choosing, have it no other way.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

My experience with women that approach me has been they are messed up in some way, usually an attention seeker that wants free drinks or a BPD wacko. I feel more comfortable making the approach, using my own judgement. The pain of being rejected has long since passed. You do the choosing, have it no other way.

Why is knowing what you want and going after it a Masculine, Manly thing? does it say in the Bible or what? did God say so? To be honest, I sometimes feel like instigating violence instead of being assertive, approaching women, talking to them, initiating things with them, etc. As in, I would like to beat up a girl's boyfriend out of anger and jealousy, show the girl I have the Balls to endure some hits to my body.

 

[wait_out]

You should want to approach. I'm dating a girl now who asked ME out while I was *****footing around asking her. Don't be timid, it's bad for your ego. You are a male and should learn to be proactive. You will be happier... it's just the learning/desensitizing process that's painful.

Protip -- the more you're looking for validation from women, the more painful rejection will be. You need to recognize this and deal with it, otherwise you will never last through the learning process.