Is a big ego strictly necessary to be successful? If so how much?

[Bokanovsky]

Successful people often develop big egos as a consequence of their success. However, it does not work the other way around (big ego leading to success). I know lots of people with massive egos who are barely getting by. This is especially true of women nowadays. These people tend to be miserable, insecure and generally unhappy.

 

[user43770]

However OP the thing is, to get the ego I have, i went out and earned it. I have a reason to have an ego I've done ****. You haven't. I think that's everyone's rub against you. When I was your age I was quite insecure. I didnt' think I was any better than anyone else beucase i had no tangible reason to believe I was so.

If I'm not mistaken, Mike has a good job that he's seen success in. You wouldn't know it, though, because he doesn't spend every post talking about himself.

 

[( . )( . )]

If I'm not mistaken, Mike has a good job that he's seen success in. You wouldn't know it, though, because he doesn't spend every post talking about himself.

Pwned.

 

[bigneil]

Ideally your "big ego" is really confidence that comes from success which comes from expertise which comes from hard work, health and/or raw talent.

It's when it's based on insecurity then it's a bad thing.

 

[backbreaker]

If I'm not mistaken, Mike has a good job that he's seen success in. You wouldn't know it, though, because he doesn't spend every post talking about himself.

1. i thought the rolondo dude who started the toher 5 page thread was the the guy who started this post, after i responded i saw it was mike, most post was not directed towards mike.

2. your passaive aggressive response proves my point. this is a forum where we talk about our success or lack fo success with women, all we can do is talk about ourselves in relation to our exerpeinces we've had with the opposite sex. the issue you have with me is not that i talk about myself beucase if you had that issue with me you'd hate everyone on the stie. the issue you have with me is that when i talk about myself, the **** i talk about is better than the **** you talk about. no one cares that all down low talks about is his stripper he's trying to pay to ahve sex with him. because you internally think you are better than that.

that's why i think the whole"he has a big ego" bit is such a crock of ****. everyone talks about themselves. no one gives a **** about the guy who talks about himself when he doesn't have ****. some people, like yourself, have problems with people who you internally precieve to be better than you are, like somehow i have to tote the line beucase i don't want to offend you or anyone else by being a kick ass person.

i don't lose sleep over people like that.


3. now that i am aware that mike started the thread let me re answer the orignial question... the word ego has a bag stigmatism. I don't see ego as a bad thing, I see un founded ego as a bad thing. also success is relative. Do you need an ego to go get a job and move into middle management at a fortune 500 company? probably not. Do you need a big ego to start a company with little capital when everyone is telling you that you are crazy? yeah. Most would consider both to be successful people, but success is relative.

The good thing about having a large ego is that you tend not to put a lot of stock into what people say or think. That is a deadly good quality to have if used correctly. I would even say it's a DJish quality to some extent. I mean think about it how many threads do you see on this forum where guys are saying dont' give a **** what people think go approach that girl in the middle of the room that no one else will talk to, dress like you want to dress, etc etc etc, you can't do that while not having an ego it's not possible. I've said this in the MM forum and this may be too advanced for the masses but I think the core of DJism is objectivism.. i don't think it's possible to be a DJ while at the same time really giving a **** what people think and thinking you are the same as everyone else, a true DJ is an objectivist, he only cares about what he thinks, and cares about resutls that are going to benefit him..

can also be an Achilles heel if abused.

 

[zekko]

The good thing about having a large ego is that you tend not to put a lot of stock into what people say or think.

Oddly enough, the reverse seems to be true also. If you had no ego at all, you wouldn't care about what people said about you either.

Tyler from RSD is a guy who is into all that Eckhart Tolle stuff about how you should divest yourself of ego and all that. If you had no ego, you would never be bruised by rejections, that's one advantage supposedly. You only live in the moment, and aren't concerned about your ego. But then Tyler also tells all his students that they should think of themselves as 10s too, so I'm not sure that exactly meshes (I can't buy into that philosophy since I don't believe in 10s at all).

One problem is, I think, that for the purposes of a seduction forum, the word ego is poorly defined. It's a little vague - is it self image? self esteem? Pride? Arrogance? Thinking you're better than other people? This isn't a psychology course, after all.

 

[backbreaker]

Oddly enough, the reverse seems to be true also. If you had no ego at all, you wouldn't care about what people said about you either.

Tyler from RSD is a guy who is into all that Eckhart Tolle stuff about how you should divest yourself of ego and all that. If you had no ego, you would never be bruised by rejections, that's one advantage supposedly. You only live in the moment, and aren't concerned about your ego. But then Tyler also tells all his students that they should think of themselves as 10s too, so I'm not sure that exactly meshes (I can't buy into that philosophy since I don't believe in 10s at all).

One problem is, I think, that for the purposes of a seduction forum, the word ego is poorly defined. It's a little vague - is it self image? self esteem? Pride? Arrogance? Thinking you're better than other people? This isn't a psychology course, after all.

that too. I see ego is one's self image in comparison to those surrounding him. In short the way i see it is, I'm a a good looking guy = self esteem. I'm better looking than anyone else in the room= ego

when put in those terms, you can see that ego is not necessarily bad or wrong. if i work out everyday and you don't and you have a beer gut and i have a 6 pack am i wrong for thinking i look better than you? not really. On the ther than, tricking myself into thinking i look better than you when in reality i don't, isn't going to get me very far either as far as tanigle results. Ego only works in your favor when it's true. ego.

most guys who use the word ego use it in some type of passive agressive pull you back in the crab bucket type manner but ego in itself, at least my def. of it is not bad.

 

[zekko]

if i work out everyday and you don't and you have a beer gut and i have a 6 pack am i wrong for thinking i look better than you? not really. On the ther than, tricking myself into thinking i look better than you when in reality i don't, isn't going to get me very far either as far as tanigle results. Ego only works in your favor when it's true. ego.

Interesting. I do think that sometimes having that extra confidence, even if it isn't warranted, can help some people. Pickup gurus call this "delusional confidence". I have known guys who were very confident and were able to pull some very hot chicks, even though I couldn't see anything that they had to be confident about lol. One of these guys is my age, and he regularly pumps and dumps 18-22 year old girls. It's been his thing since his wife divorced him. But yeah, overall I would think any results purely from overconfidence would be inconsistent.

You were talking about Muhammad Ali. There was a guy who talked a lot of trash, about how he was the greatest and all that. But at the end of the day, he could back it up. I think I remember hearing about him that his boxing career really took off once he started thinking he was the sh!t and all. But obviously he had the tools anyway, long reach and quick. But it's hard not to think about the ego when you think of Ali, it seemed to be an integral part of what made him a great boxer.

 

[user43770]

2. your passaive aggressive response proves my point. this is a forum where we talk about our success or lack fo success with women, all we can do is talk about ourselves in relation to our exerpeinces we've had with the opposite sex. the issue you have with me is not that i talk about myself beucase if you had that issue with me you'd hate everyone on the stie. the issue you have with me is that when i talk about myself, the **** i talk about is better than the **** you talk about. no one cares that all down low talks about is his stripper he's trying to pay to ahve sex with him. because you internally think you are better than that.

that's why i think the whole"he has a big ego" bit is such a crock of ****. everyone talks about themselves. no one gives a **** about the guy who talks about himself when he doesn't have ****. some people, like yourself, have problems with people who you internally precieve to be better than you are, like somehow i have to tote the line beucase i don't want to offend you or anyone else by being a kick ass person.

i don't lose sleep over people like that.

.

This is what I would have expected from you: a self-deluded, condescending post about your own greatness.

 

[spang]

Oddly enough, the reverse seems to be true also. If you had no ego at all, you wouldn't care about what people said about you either.

Tyler from RSD is a guy who is into all that Eckhart Tolle stuff about how you should divest yourself of ego and all that. If you had no ego, you would never be bruised by rejections, that's one advantage supposedly. You only live in the moment, and aren't concerned about your ego. But then Tyler also tells all his students that they should think of themselves as 10s too, so I'm not sure that exactly meshes (I can't buy into that philosophy since I don't believe in 10s at all).

One problem is, I think, that for the purposes of a seduction forum, the word ego is poorly defined. It's a little vague - is it self image? self esteem? Pride? Arrogance? Thinking you're better than other people? This isn't a psychology course, after all.

tolle's work is great. i read a lot of that and it makes sense. to me, ego has always been a bad thing. confidence can come from ego but also insecurity, and that is why. ego is a false self image we construct of ourselves, it is who we think we are...but is not the "true self". (the map is not the territory.) people make poor decisions because of ego.
in the dating world i dont know if it can be applied though...so many women love arrogance and a man with a huge ego. and i guess people in general admire it today. ive thought about this a lot, and in theory it should work. if i approached a woman and acted with no desire whatsoever(not allowing my ego to interfere and just say whats on my mind), i would have a better chance of being successful. but uhh my approach is always difficult, mostly because im focused on the outcome...and that ruins it all. it is my ego that hinders me because my ego cant stand to be rejected. its a damned vicious cycle of fail.
it takes a lot of practice. i have to learn to act without attachment. the chinese call this "Wu Wei" or "action without effort". like when you approach women you think ok i dont care what happens im gonna do it. it is the same thing. that is removing the ego completely.
truly expressing yourself honestly is hard. my theory about why master seducers are so successful is they are disconnected from the part of the ego that inhibits them from expressing themselves fully, ie. they dont give a fvck. one might have money and women and cars and whatnot, but if you can practice non-attachment, chances of success(and staying successful) actually increase.

 

[Mike32ct]

A lot of well thought out replies here.

For now, I'll will say that nobody is advocating bragging about something you can't back up. (Unless you are trying to fool some really dumb AWs long enough to F them lol. That's not my thing, but I'm sure some guys pull that off.)

My guess (in this purely hypothetical example) is it would be a different KIND of ego pre and post success...

Maybe the guy initially strongly believes he's not going to be average either in life or with women or at some job/business/skill/hobby. He's not bragging to anyone, because he can't and shouldn't. Call this a "silent ego" that gets the wheels turning.

If he don't get beyond that stage, obviously he's doomed. At this point, this guy has a sh@tload of work to do to live up this belief and make it reality.

Then, if and when he succeeds, a different (more solid) type of ego develops based on actual success. Whether the guy keeps more of a "silent ego" or what we generally call confidence or becomes more vocal about it probably depends on his personality.

 

[Jitterbug]

Mike32ct, that's just a calm quiet confidence vs a more vocal one. The former is generally more admirable for men, and also easier to maintain, provided that you have a good handle over the urge to run your mouth on how awesome you are to others. Easier because you're not distracted by continuous challenges as you're not hanging it all out there for everyone to see.

I think the word "ego" here is a bit of a red herring since it's been tainted by our feminized education over the last few decades. If you were never introduced to the word "ego" and its concept, how would you describe a successful man's attitude?

 

[CostaDeSol]

Mike32ct:

Have you ever seen the film "Invictus"? In "Invictus" Nelson Mandela and the captain of South Africa's Rugby team, Francois Pienaar, have this conversation:


Nelson Mandela: How do you inspire your team to do their best?

Francois Pienaar: By example. I've always thought to lead by example, sir.

Nelson Mandela: Well, that is right. That is exactly right. But how do we get them to be better then they think they CAN be? That is very difficult, I find. Inspiration, perhaps. How do we inspire ourselves to greatness when nothing less will do? How do we inspire everyone around us? I sometimes think it is by using the work of others.



What Mandela is simply saying is that he wants South Africa's Rugby team to be the best in the world. Unfortunately for them, they are lowly ranked and think they are going to get creamed when they play highly ranked teams. So to get South Africa's Rugby team to be the best, Mandela is saying the players need to believe they can be the best.


I think this applies to your ego question. I think that to push your self to be the MVP, you need to believe its possible. You need to believe you are an MVP.

Unfortunately sometimes, once people become highly successful, or think they will become highly successful, they either treat people like crap, or REPEATEDLY talk about themselves very highly. In other words, they continually show off.

My advice, believe in your self, but remain as humble as possible.

 

[zinc4]

I'm glad you saw my thread as an initial inspiration.

Having an ego is like having an engine. If you have no engine, you will never get anywhere. Most people cover themselves and say they do not have an ego. These people are usually conformists that simply think there is nothing beyond your line of sight. Your ego is your only friend to get you where you want to be. It's letting everyone know "I'm Mike and i am success". If you aren't able to say this and think it, how are you possibly going to believe it? How are you possibly going to wake up every morning and continue to do whatever you are striving for? You are sooner or later desist and tell yourself that you shouldn't continue. If you tell yourself "I'm better than everyone around me", "No one/Nothing will stop me from getting what i want", "I'll do anything to get what i want", "The world is mine for my picking", you will achieve whatever you desire no matter what. The universe won't even begin to cover what you CAN do. It's all a state of mind and many people don't even think of this because of the repercussions and backlash it brings. They want to do things by the book and care about others and their feelings. Yourself is the most important thing in the end, not others. "I come, I see, and i conquer"

Too much humility is a flaw. If you are arrogant and ****y, why would you change for others? If you are happy with yourself, why would you change to PLEASE OTHERS? You are pleasing yourself because you are happy and others can either love you or hate you. At the end of the day, they will have to step aside to see you realize your dreams and they will still be looking from far at what you achieve and what they can't.

This is wrong on so many levels.....

You all are confusing a big ego with self confidence...there is a big difference between the two...

Believing in yourself and knowing that can do anything you put your mind to doesn't mean you have or must have a big ego....

You are as usual confusing your ego with strength...but the problem is that you will only be as strong or as fulfilled as your ego allows you to be and you will constantly have to feed it...and also that is a strength built upon how should i say it....BS...you feel better or stronger than others because you have more financial success or even learned a new skill or more attractive or yada yada.....but the truth is everyone faces the same problems in life and everyone is capable of great things with the right mindset and everything in this life is recycled into other future lives...in reality your status quo in our society doesn't mean a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things..

Your ego in fact is a major weakness and must be held in check and ideally destroyed for a person to truly progress on a deeper spiritual level...

Because having a big ego means you are controlled by it and not the other way around despite what you may believe...you are controlled by your ego your desires and your fears...

Currently, you say you are very physically attractive and have loads of money...what if in a blink of an eye these things were stripped from you? All of a sudden you were homeless with no money and your face scarred and hideous...if you are truly strong and have mastered your ego, these things wouldn't phase how you continue to feel about yourself and position in this world and your sense of happiness......but a person built upon their ego would be devastated and crushed and altogether ruined emotionally and mentally...

The challenge of being strong is containing your ego while becoming successful...it's so easy to let your ego grow too big and then use that as armor and deluding yourself of your greatness while doing so...

And to answer the OP's original question...no, a big ego is not necessary to do well with women....however, men with big egos tend to do well because they display a sense of self worth (even if it's overinflated and built upon shallow fallacies) and confidence, 2 attractive traits to women....however, becoming good at various things while controlling your ego and caring about others will ultimately give you more confidence and self worth than having a huge ego...in other words ego is still a weakness...

You can still have very high confidence and self esteem while not having a huge ego but many successful people tend to have both while not realizing that their egos though are also a major weakness...

 

[Ronaldo7]

This is wrong on so many levels.....

You all are confusing a big ego with self confidence...there is a big difference between the two...

Believing in yourself and knowing that can do anything you put your mind to doesn't mean you have or must have a big ego....

You are as usual confusing your ego with strength...but the problem is that you will only be as strong or as fulfilled as your ego allows you to be and you will constantly have to feed it...and also that is a strength built upon how should i say it....BS...you feel better or stronger than others because you have more financial success or even learned a new skill or more attractive or yada yada.....but the truth is everyone faces the same problems in life and everyone is capable of great things with the right mindset and everything in this life is recycled into other future lives...in reality your status quo in our society doesn't mean a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things..

Your ego in fact is a major weakness and must be held in check and ideally destroyed for a person to truly progress on a deeper spiritual level...

Because having a big ego means you are controlled by it and not the other way around despite what you may believe...you are controlled by your ego your desires and your fears...

Currently, you say you are very physically attractive and have loads of money...what if in a blink of an eye these things were stripped from you? All of a sudden you were homeless with no money and your face scarred and hideous...if you are truly strong and have mastered your ego, these things wouldn't phase how you continue to feel about yourself and position in this world and your sense of happiness......but a person built upon their ego would be devastated and crushed and altogether ruined emotionally and mentally...

The challenge of being strong is containing your ego while becoming successful...it's so easy to let your ego grow too big and then use that as armor and deluding yourself of your greatness while doing so...

And to answer the OP's original question...no, a big ego is not necessary to do well with women....however, men with big egos tend to do well because they display a sense of self worth (even if it's overinflated and built upon shallow fallacies) and confidence, 2 attractive traits to women....however, becoming good at various things while controlling your ego and caring about others will ultimately give you more confidence and self worth than having a huge ego...in other words ego is still a weakness...

You can still have very high confidence and self esteem while not having a huge ego but many successful people tend to have both while not realizing that their egos though are also a major weakness...

My ego is my biggest strength. You and i are different. We think different, we act different, and we speak different. What i do may not result in the same manner to you and vice versa. I don't care if you think i have a big ego or whether i'm arrogant or ****y. I can firmly look anyone in the eye and tell them "I'm better than you. I have, am, and will always be better than you". Are you able to do that? No. My self-confidence level is at a stage that only true people with grand success will ever comprehend.

 

[zinc4]

My ego is my biggest strength. You and i are different. We think different, we act different, and we speak different. What i do may not result in the same manner to you and vice versa. I don't care if you think i have a big ego or whether i'm arrogant or ****y. I can firmly look anyone in the eye and tell them "I'm better than you. I have, am, and will always be better than you". Are you able to do that? No. My self-confidence level is at a stage that only true people with grand success will ever comprehend.

Everything i said flew right over your head...

I used to believe i was better than everyone else and as a matter of fact i would tell people that straight to their face frequently resulting in many physical altercations... and i would have said the same to you if we ever met and laughed in your face if you proclaimed yourself better so i am sure we would have had quite the confrontation on the matter........so you don't know nearly as much as you think you do...

Difference between me and you is i grew up since then because i am older than you and i have learned many lessons the hard way and i still have to fight my ego and tell myself i am no better than others.....you think you are so great because you believe with a straight face that you are better than everyone else but what you don't realize is that it's a weakness disguised as a strength and that to control your sense of superiority would result in a much deeper strength...

 

[Ronaldo7]

Everything i said flew right over your head...

I used to believe i was better than everyone else and as a matter of fact i would tell people that straight to their face frequently resulting in many physical altercations... and i would have said the same to you if we ever met and laughed in your face if you proclaimed yourself better so i am sure we would have had quite the confrontation on the matter........so you don't know nearly as much as you think you do...

Difference between me and you is i grew up since then because i am older than you and i have learned many lessons the hard way and i still have to fight my ego and tell myself i am no better than others.....you think you are so great because you believe with a straight face that you are better than everyone else but what you don't realize is that it's a weakness disguised as a strength and that to control your sense of superiority would result in a much deeper strength...

I am nothing unlike anyone you've met. Everyone i meet i always tell them that they will never meet anyone like me again. Someone told me that arrogance was in my DNA. They weren't wrong. I don't care about you, your words, your actions, and much less your reactions/responses. I ONLY care about myself. I am the way i am. You are the way you are. Do you see me constantly picking at you for it? You have the same choice everyone else has, love me or hate me, but at the end of the day i am still the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever, ever will be.

 

[zinc4]

I am nothing unlike anyone you've met. Everyone i meet i always tell them that they will never meet anyone like me again. Someone told me that arrogance was in my DNA. They weren't wrong. I don't care about you, your words, your actions, and much less your reactions/responses. I ONLY care about myself. I am the way i am. You are the way you are. Do you see me constantly picking at you for it? You have the same choice everyone else has, love me or hate me, but at the end of the day i am still the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever, ever will be.

I am not picking at you, I am trying to help you. I apologize if you feel like i am picking at you or attacking you...that is not my intent.

 

[user43770]

Everyone has a big ego. Everyone is concerned with their own well-being. Everyone is ultimately trying to find happiness for themselves. We just go about it in different ways.

My experiences have shaped me differently than the next man's have him.

A big ego is normal. We just present ourselves to the world differently.

 

[backbreaker]

Interesting. I do think that sometimes having that extra confidence, even if it isn't warranted, can help some people. Pickup gurus call this "delusional confidence". I have known guys who were very confident and were able to pull some very hot chicks, even though I couldn't see anything that they had to be confident about lol. One of these guys is my age, and he regularly pumps and dumps 18-22 year old girls. It's been his thing since his wife divorced him. But yeah, overall I would think any results purely from overconfidence would be inconsistent.

You were talking about Muhammad Ali. There was a guy who talked a lot of trash, about how he was the greatest and all that. But at the end of the day, he could back it up. I think I remember hearing about him that his boxing career really took off once he started thinking he was the sh!t and all. But obviously he had the tools anyway, long reach and quick. But it's hard not to think about the ego when you think of Ali, it seemed to be an integral part of what made him a great boxer.

on the other hand, people with egos usually are their own worst enemy in some way shape or form.

go to an AA meeting. Alocholics/addicts fall into one of two catogories.

1. the guy who grew up around it, was basically preselected to be an alcoholic.

2. the person who was otherwise normal if not successful and conviced himself that he was not like everyone else who got hooked and that somehow he would duke addiction or alcoholism when the time came to do so and couldn't.

usually these people if you look at them, are really, really good at something. maybe not making money or business, but they are very good at something. I believe this is the reason that most brilliant/virtuoso musicians in the 60's and 70's were heroin addicts (bill evans, miles davis, etc) they weren't bad people they were people who will more brilliant than anyone else and figured their brilliance would carry over to allow them to beat what other people could not beat beucase they were able to do other things that other people weren't' able to do in other venues.

My personal ego has taken me to heights that very few if any on this forum will ever see honestly. On the other hand, mye go has taken me to the pitts of hell with my drug addiction that i dont' wish on my worst enemy. I, more than any or at least most, understand that ego cuts both ways, and i still do not believe ego in itself is a bad thing.

in my sense, my ego got the best of me with the drug addiction beucase it was an unfounded ego; i had no reason to believe i coudl beat drug addiction when i had never done so in the past.

So today, i have a pretty large ego, but i only have an eg when it comes to things I have factual evidence that I know i'm very good at. I know if i walk in a room with a bunch of dudes and there are 2-3 girls everyone wants i know that i probably have more game than anyone else in the room. i have no reason to not believe this beucase this has pretty much been the case my adult life. I know i can run a business beucase i have my entire adult life. But i dont' make the mistake of thinking i'm better than someone else in things i have no experience then (anymore)