Interest levels and failed first dates, THE BIGGEST ISSUE OF THIS FORUM

[nismo-4]

All rise!

Anyways, I see it's a more common issue of keeping a woman's interest up. Easier said than done, since all it takes is just one man to swoop in. Especially with conundrums like these:

1. Kiss her on the first date, she's validated and will friendzone you. Don't kiss her and she'll get someone who is interested.

2. Call 4 days after the date, she is likely to be seeing another man who is better than you. Call 1 day or god forbid 1 hour after, she'll stop responding and get another man because of your eagerness.

To name a couple. It seems keeping a woman's interest is the biggest issue on this board. I had a considerable amount of dates this fall, but they ended up either going ghost, just wanting friendship, or started seeing someone new. Epic fail either way.

But how do you guys keep up a woman's interest over time and not fail a first date/ meet?

 

[skinnyguy]

I think the answer is to stop giving a **** about women and start living your life

 

[sylvester the cat]

But how do you guys keep up a woman's interest over time and not fail a first date/ meet?

For me, this is asking the wrong question.

I know my value and I know my worth. If she is not interested then that's her problem.

'Interest' lies soley in the girl's mind and how she perceives you. It's going to go high or low depending on the information you give her. The less she knows the higher her interest.

Been seeing this girl for the past 6 weeks. IL been sky high until tonight. The moment I started confiding in her I could almost touch the loss of interest. I went ghost immediately.

We are always alone buddy. Happiness does not lie with another.

 

[Poon King]

From my experience and observing other men I know who are good with women, it comes down to finding women with high interest to start.. rather than "working" to raise their interest.

PUA games and strategies are for betas "playing" alpha. And with game going so mainstream... a lot of betas are doing the same thing and women can see through it. So women prefer the man who isn't trying (or doesn't seem to be) because she believes she can trust him. Because women believe men are not "allowed" to trick women. Women must know what they are getting into for better or worse otherwise her time is wasted. And her time is more important than a man's (sarcasm).

Here are some other basic patterns...

-If a woman is over-pursued she will lose interest. Unavailability is a huge turn on for most women. However, they have a breaking point where it becomes neglect.

-Women generally like to become intrigued by the man while they’re unsure if he’s interested. Women enjoy a man who has a calling or is passionate about his work.

-Most importantly.. women like a man who doesn't focus too much on women.. but rather focuses his energy on some "passion". The reason being...

a. Men are not supposed to care too much what women think or how their minds work.
b. A man who focuses too much on women can't be trusted or manipulate by women.. therefore.. they are not useful outside of short exciting flings.

 

[zekko]

Good post, OP. And considering the number of options an attractive woman will have these days, it's no surprise.

I don't think the issue is keeping a woman's interest up, however. You're taking two people and putting them together and seeing if they will mesh. Not all two people are going to mesh. Certainly some will mesh better than others. When you meet someone you hardly know (like in a cold approach or from online dating), you're rolling the dice and hoping for some chemistry and some compatibility. Just because it isn't there doesn't mean that you have failed as an alpha, IMO.

 

[Trump]

All rise!

Anyways, I see it's a more common issue of keeping a woman's interest up. Easier said than done, since all it takes is just one man to swoop in. Especially with conundrums like these:

1. Kiss her on the first date, she's validated and will friendzone you. Don't kiss her and she'll get someone who is interested.

2. Call 4 days after the date, she is likely to be seeing another man who is better than you. Call 1 day or god forbid 1 hour after, she'll stop responding and get another man because of your eagerness.

To name a couple. It seems keeping a woman's interest is the biggest issue on this board. I had a considerable amount of dates this fall, but they ended up either going ghost, just wanting friendship, or started seeing someone new. Epic fail either way.

But how do you guys keep up a woman's interest over time and not fail a first date/ meet?

It's just to have fun. Do what you would normally do and bring her along for the ride. Also step up the sexual tension so she doesn't think of you as her brother.

You can't be doing everything right and still goes ghost or just wants friendship. You have to be a detective, be sharp and judge how the first date went. If it goes well, she will respond positively next time.

 

[SmooveMooves]

Another perspective I hold, while I agree with Sylvester the cat, is it's not so much as keeping her interest, but Actually being interesting.

If that makes any sense,

I'm sure a lot of you guys are stand up guys, you dot you i's and cross your t's.

But are you really interesting?

Do you have interesting experiences to share. Do you take chances, try new things, bend the rules sometimes?

Its easy to become mundane and not even know. Become conservative. Get sucked into routine.

Work.Gym.Sleep.Work.Gym.Sleep

You could be... Well, boring and not even know it.

Idk, just my honest 2¢.

Looking foward to an interesting discussion here.

 

[nismo-4]

From my experience and observing other men I know who are good with women, it comes down to finding women with high interest to start.. rather than "working" to raise their interest.

Most of us here are not male model millionaires, nor do we often get a woman who is super interested from the start. Though I wonder how dating would look if men only gave attention to women who showed high interest from the start, and ignored all other women.

PUA games and strategies are for betas "playing" alpha. And with game going so mainstream... a lot of betas are doing the same thing and women can see through it. So women prefer the man who isn't trying (or doesn't seem to be) because she believes she can trust him. Because women believe men are not "allowed" to trick women. Women must know what they are getting into for better or worse otherwise her time is wasted. And her time is more important than a man's (sarcasm).

If a man establishes his sexuality from the outset, the woman will know that the man ain't about to give out that much attention. The woman would go ghost because the man will reject her offer to be a beta orbiter. Thus, to the woman, the man is useless. She doesn't put out (sex), he doesn't put out (attention and validation).

Here are some other basic patterns...

-If a woman is over-pursued she will lose interest. Unavailability is a huge turn on for most women. However, they have a breaking point where it becomes neglect.

-Women generally like to become intrigued by the man while they’re unsure if he’s interested. Women enjoy a man who has a calling or is passionate about his work.

Both are true if the woman's interest is high.

-Most importantly.. women like a man who doesn't focus to much on women.. but rather focuses is energy on some "passion". The reason being...

a. Men are not supposed to care too much what women think or how their minds work.
b. A man who focuses too much on women can't be trusted or manipulate by women.. therefore.. they are not useful outside of short exciting flings.

Because the man does not want to be just friends or a beta orbiter, but who here on this board wants to just be a woman's friend? Women like that are blocked forever and should be labeled as attention hors.

My 2 cents.

This thread got replies quite quickly. Quicker than it took me to type this thread on my ipad in this restaurant. By request of Last of the Alphas, I'm stickying this.

Looking forward to a great discussion here.

 

[skinnyguy]

From my experience and observing other men I know who are good with women, it comes down to finding women with high interest to start.. rather than "working" to raise their interest.

PUA games and strategies are for betas "playing" alpha. And with game going so mainstream... a lot of betas are doing the same thing and women can see through it. So women prefer the man who isn't trying (or doesn't seem to be) because she believes she can trust him. Because women believe men are not "allowed" to trick women. Women must know what they are getting into for better or worse otherwise her time is wasted. And her time is more important than a man's (sarcasm).

Here are some other basic patterns...

-If a woman is over-pursued she will lose interest. Unavailability is a huge turn on for most women. However, they have a breaking point where it becomes neglect.

-Women generally like to become intrigued by the man while they’re unsure if he’s interested. Women enjoy a man who has a calling or is passionate about his work.

-Most importantly.. women like a man who doesn't focus too much on women.. but rather focuses his energy on some "passion". The reason being...

a. Men are not supposed to care too much what women think or how their minds work.
b. A man who focuses too much on women can't be trusted or manipulate by women.. therefore.. they are not useful outside of short exciting flings.

YES.

Once you become outcome dependent with women you're finished. Women like men who aren't interested in them and have dozens of other options, not some beta reading a book on game and field testing it on women.

Women can sense if you are desperate from 100 miles away. So the answer is to stop being so desperate!

 

[Rainman4707]

How many times do I text her? How long do I wait before I text her?
If she aint interested your soon gonna find out...if she is interested, then it's ON.

I appreciate that guys are struggling with the things you mention, but it has been plain sailing for me.

On your point no 1 kiss her or don't kiss her I like to go for the kiss. I have done every time & almost always got what I wanted

On your point no2 :- dose'nt matter to me if it's one day or seven. I'm confident in myself & don't really care.

Regarding not failing a first date I don't ever look at it like that anymore. I go in confident I keep learning & trying to improve. < that's the advice I would give.

Regarding keeping interest level high. Again I think this comes down to game & what you have learned which could be numerous.

 

[Poon King]

My 2 cents.

Most of us here are not male model millionaires, nor do we often get a woman who is super interested from the start. Though I wonder how dating would look if men only gave attention to women who showed high interest from the start, and ignored all other women.

If a woman agrees to a date.. its safe to say her interest level is high. While counter-intuitive, a key action in hustling is to do nothing. Too much action
on the part of the guy creates opportunity for you to fumble (in many different ways) and to demonstrate indirectly that you want her too much.

This identifies you as "beta" fast.. and so.. her interest level drops. Its better to do nothing and have her lose interest than to work your ass off and have her lose interest.

If a man establishes his sexuality from the outset, the woman will know that the man ain't about to give out that much attention. The woman would go ghost because the man will reject her offer to be a beta orbiter. Thus, to the woman, the man is useless. She doesn't put out (sex), he doesn't put out (attention and validation).

True. Women are rarely in a hurry to be physical. Their timeline stretches forward for months if not years (if you’re the right guy) and so "what’s the hurry?"

And if she decides you're the wrong guy, then she won't mind foregoing sex. In fact, she would prefer to have sex with only those guys she thinks have potential. A missed sexual opportunity with a dude she later decides is a loser won't cause regret.

Because the man does not want to be just friends or a beta orbiter, but who here on this board wants to just be a woman's friend? Women like that are blocked forever and should be labeled as attention hors.

This is why you go for women with high interest instead of "working" to raise her interest. Working to raise a woman's interest demonstrates your inferiority to her.

The reason betas still get girls is because alphas are rare and there are just not enough to go around. So a woman will "settle" for the best value beta she can find (low cost to her while producing large benefits).

A beta who refuses to play the beta role is indeed "useless". But refusing to play that role won't mean a woman sees you as an alpha. Most players use beta game to trick women into believing she found a "high value beta" but then the man leaves after a gets what he wants.

All players/PUA's are betas who found a loop hole. That's why women hate them.

 

[Vulpine]

Interest levels and failed first dates

First off, to any truly "new to the game" folks that might just be coming on board, I STRONGLY suggest that:

Before you get active posting your questions here on the forum, visit the lower-left part of the page. There is a link: The DJ Bible. Click on that, then bookmark it. Find the DJ bootcamp, and then DO IT. Then, as you are doing the bootcamp, read the rest of the material. There is a lot to read, but all your questions, and more, will be answered by the material that's already been there for a long, long, time.

You're questions aren't special; they've all been asked before. You aren't a beautiful snowflake: you are the all-singing, all-dancing, crap of the world. If something is really pressing you, do a search. Read and learn, don't just ask and memorize answers. What I'm saying is begin your evolution by taking matters INTO YOUR OWN HANDS. Don't rely on haters on the internet to give you custom advice, you'll likely get only custom trolling. Instead, treat it like a college course that you are taking, and do your homework.

With regards to the two big issues, there is plenty of material listed on that DJ Bible menu page. One of my favorites is Anti-Dump's Machine. Once you find that and read it, you'll find that one should "strike while the iron is hot" when it comes to first dates and interest levels. Anti-Dump's philosophy is to not waste time trying to get uninterested (or uninteresting) women to become interested in you. Instead, cut them out sooner than later and use your dating time for finding women who ARE interested, and date THEM. He details how you can tell the difference, as does Señor Fingers, another favorite of mine.

Do the bootcamp, Read the material, and be a man of action. Choose. Be decisive. Evolve into the better man you need to become.
____

That being said, let me share an example of "striking while the iron is hot".

FR: The blonde.
(some will recognize the story)
____
(at bar, warming up a cutie, a blonde, and I'm generally "not into" blondes...)

HB: (saying something that piquéd my interest)
V: "Really? Hmmph..."
HB: *smiling, corner of bottom lip tucked under top teeth*
V: *pushes pad and pen toward HB*
HB: *feigning surprise* "...uh..."
V: "Come on, now. Don't go running around in your head making a bunch of assumptions. I just want to continue our conversation away from this noise... get with it. *taps pointed finger demandingly on the notepad*
HB: *takes up pen, thinking*
V: *taps finger on notepad again, with a stern look and eye-contact*
HB: *thinking... *
V: *walks away to do whatever, comes back to writing on notepad*

She (eventually) wrote some gibberish in a language I couldn't understand, followed by a phone number from another state at the end of the note. The situation was such that I couldn't escalate then and there, so I had to go for the number close.

THE NEXT DAY...
*I'm driving home from work, a half-hour in to a 2 1/2 hour drive, I just happened to think of the gal I just met...*

V: *getting stuck behind some idiot not doing the speed limit, whip out my phone... beep-beep-boop, boup-boup-beep-boop... Brrringgg, brrrringgg...*
HB: "Hello?"
V: *wearing a smile so it comes through in my voice, despite the asshead driving in front of me* "Hey, kittycat! Sing me a song to keep me in town, otherwise I'll be two-and-a-half hours away, at home, until Wednesday.
HB: "Uh... Ok... well... I'm at work right now, and I won't be done until 9. Is that going to be too late to do anything?"
V: *somewhat shocked by the compliance, hitting the brakes to slow down and turn around and go back into the city* "That's fine, I can find something to kill time until then."
HB: "Great! But... I'd like to stop at home and change, is that okay?"
V: "Go ahead, just don't go crazy making yourself beautiful to impress me, just freshen up and meet me out at (name of a easily found bar with quiet areas) for a ****tail( about 9:30-10(?)"
HB: "That's no problem, I know where that is, but it'll be probably closer to ten."
V: "I'll be waiting. See you then."
HB: "Okay, bye!"

I was surprised at her interest level, and at the same time, a little torqued that I had to turn around and waste a few hours ...I was looking forward to being home and doing stuff there. I, having had plenty experience with flakey flakes, was already a half-hour into my drive, completely planning on getting an answering machine, and going ahead with my "weekend" plans. "Oops... she's down? Psshf... of course she's down, I'm me. Now what? This blonde better not be another retard..."
___
*we meet, have fantastic conversation, she's showing the signs of interest. I initiate a venue change to one closer to her place (the place we were at changed into less-than-optimum) to play some darts*

A couple rounds into a dart game, I'm up, she's standing to the side, talking trash about the game...

V: *third dart of the round at the ready to throw*
HB: *makes a sexually-charged wise-crack*
V: *dart still up, looks over at HB, eye-contact...*
HB: *corner of bottom lip tucked under top teeth again, smiling*
V: *walks over, sets last dart on table while pulling her towards me with the other hand, deploys first kiss*

Needless to say, we didn't finish that dart game. In fact, we slammed our drinks, hit the door, and went straight back to her place to ƒuck after that first kiss.

By bootcamping, reading the material, and practicing (doing my homework), I was able to recognize "when the iron was hot" and act on it. I didn't hesitate, or start coming up with a gang of "what if's" to freak myself out, I just acted. I didn't attack her, I strolled right up and kissed her like I have kissed a woman before: like I knew she wanted me to.

It's that ability to recognize interest that opens the door to knowing when to act and when not to act. Did I wait four days before calling? Nope. I called when it suited me - when I felt like it. Read it again: Does any part of the interaction convey desperation?

Rules?

Well, how about the first kiss? Did I wait until the end of the date? Did I wait for the customary and expected awkwardness? HELL NO! I wasn't going to make a chick, who clearly wanted me, wait until it was awkward and there was more pressure on me.

No, instead, I saw she was interested, and acted accordingly. Had I waited, and not escalated, that is, "struck while the iron was hot", things would have likely declined. Surely the woman's hamster would've had more time to run, and she would've began to question my value.

HB: "I'm giving him all the signs... what's his deal? He's probably a douche, and lame in the sack, too, I'll bet."

:nono:

I've had a lot of crappy first dates. But, that was before I took this "course" and did my homework. Now, I understand the difference between a woman that's interested in ME and a woman that's interested in a free dinner and some attention.

I've been with that particular blonde in the story for five years now. She wants to have my babies.
:nervous:
Translated, that note she left said (roughly): "Because I don't know what assumptions you think I'm making". I framed the note and gave it back to her a year later for Valentine's day/our 1-year anniversary. Aww... so romantic!

Nothing I can say will tell you any better than what's been left by the masters I learned from: read the bible, do the bootcamp, and practice being awesome - don't just theorize about being awesome.
:kick:
Now go.

 

[nismo-4]

I really should have said keeping a woman's interest level high when it's already there. I'm not worried about raising an uninterested girl's interest, that's a waste of time and an automatic next.

That's part of the issue. The other part isn't so much of getting a first date, it's about getting a second and getting physical. If you can't get beyond the first date, you fvcked up somewhere. That can be a problem figuring out.

 

[Tuppy]

Keep high interest levels high -> remain a challenge.

Just because you kiss her after the first date does not mean you validated her (by that logic you already validated her when you told her to come on a date and spend time with you so she should've friendzoned you etc) thats not how it works kissing does not flip an 'interest' switch in her mind.

After you kiss her push her off you and say something playful like "you're not coming home with me tonight" while smiling or some **** it still gives her the element of challenge

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

I think people here have forgotten about the nice jerk. The in between of the 2. You can't alpha you're way through everything like someone above said, but you can't beta your way through it either because of obvious reasons.

People will naturally like a person who is nice (to a certain extent), but will naturally respect someone who is a jerk (to a certain extent). You can't be either of the 2 extremes because because being too nice makes you a pushover and then no one will respect you, you will be treated like dirt, etc. etc. However, if you are too much a jerk, then people will start to dislike and even hate you, and will not respect you but are more afraid of you. You have to be the in between of the 2.

You are then respected, through a little bit of fear because you don't take crap, but you are still liked because you are nice (you have power and are a leader in that sense; status). You display all of the traits a woman wants. You still love and care about her (nice) but you are not to be disrespected or taken advantage of (jerk). You are a leader, a man of pride and respect, but you bend the rules towards those who deserve it because you have a heart. You are ambiguous in that sense so people never know what you are gonna do (are you gonna give out your heart or be cruel?); you are unpredictable (girl on her toes). You are confident because you strive towards your goals and always achieve them because setbacks only delay the inevitable. These achievements show great potential for you in the future. Your achievements also give you your confidence. This coupled with pride makes you uncaring of others' opinions about you, thus you are in a sense fearless.

- The king.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Always remember what hot Kez says. Never be bland, forgettable nor replaceable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3_urefvk4

Any guy can get laid. Over and over and over again. There's little or no challenge. I've literally lost count of the number of women I've pulled.

But to keep the same woman interested for weeks, months or even years. Now that is a challenge.

The mistake that many men make is to assume that a woman is at peak interest when on the first date, or during the honeymoon period. Her peak interest is actually months down the line, when the man has jumped through all the hoops, passed the sh!t tests, yet still holds her captivated, that is when her IL peaks and she will be like putty in your hands.

This is why we do not offer everything on a plate in the first six months. Don't buy her a car (or a 40K watch, like that other gormless tw@t did) for her birthday in the first year. She will resent you for lack of sentiment. I got my bird cupcakes for her birthday, which she shared with her flatmates. Got a whole bunch of praise for that. And I've left her wondering what will be next. Play covertly, play smart. People aren't stupid and will see what you are doing, but you shouldn't apologise for it. They will respect you for going after what you want.

Maintaining interest level is a lifelong chore if you want a monogamous relationship. And don't expect her to be thinking about you 24/7. You don't want a bird like that, trust me. You just want her thinking about you more than the next guy. And the best way to do that is through her imagination.

TMK says always be in control of your woman. Make decisions and quickly. Decisive action, along with laughter is the key to that chastity belt.