INSANE strength gains, little muscle gains?

[dirtysanchez]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/supplement-marketing-on-steroids-by-alan-aragon.html

As a non-steroid assisted novice 2lb of lean mass per month is a good rate to gain at.

 

[Fuglydude]

Allegory,

No supplement is really "mandatory". However, things like EFAs, and multi's in my opinion are important for optimal health as most people don't have diets w/ adequate amounts of these nutrients. Most people should take a multivitamin simply because most people's diets are deficient in fruits/veges and the micronutrients that come with them. I know I sure as hell could use more. Furthermore, taking supraphysiological doses of things like vitamin C impart anti-oxidant effects that have additional benefits. Remember RDAs are simply the minimal amounts of nutrients to thwart disease... To take in the 500-1000 mg of vitamin C I take per day I'd have to eat 10-12 oranges daily! Vitamins simply make it easier to get what you need in a more concentrated and convenient form.

In addition I think those of us who put a lot of demands on our bodies through exercise/stressful jobs, etc, require additional nutrients to simply supply the body w/ additional co-factors, etc, to cope w/ the added stresses. This is the reason I always recommend a potent multivitamin to nearly everybody.

ArcBound,

You're asking a great question. Unfortunately I don't have a simple answer for you. You were young and still a beginner when you made substantial gains on 125 g protein/day. In all fairness, the OP, at around 108 lbs could easily make substantial gains at around 125 g protein simply because he is a beginner, and young and his body will respond quickly to any stimuli.

For old farts like me who have been training for over a decade, a high protein intake is absolutely imperative as it helps to force a positive nitrogen balance within the body. This simply means that your body is taking in more amino acids (the building blocks of protein) than it is metabolizing and kicking out in the form of urea. Coupled w/ exercise and adequate nutritional intake a positive nitrogen balance (extra amino acids) gives your muscles adequate building blocks to induce hypertrophy and grow.

In addition, there are other benefits of a high protein diet for active individuals as protein has a potent thermic effect. This simply means that the very act of digesting/metabolizing protein will kick up your metabolic rate. Protein also increases satiety and can help you to avoid eating crap.

I'm around 187-188 lbs and I try and take in 250+ g of protein a day w/ 3500-4000 calories. The high protein intake helps me to stay lean, and I hope, pushes me towards a positive nitrogen balance. Back when I first started training I gained 30-40 lbs within a year and a half by simply eating normal food and training 2x/week. As an intermediate level trainee, after 12 years in the trenches, I simply cannot grow without this level of intake.

 

[Alle_Gory]

To take in the 500-1000 mg of vitamin C I take per day I'd have to eat 10-12 oranges daily!

Or eat two of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakadu_plum

They're tiny the size of grapes and grow in Australia.

Its vitamin C concentration may be as high as 3200-5000mg/100g[1] (compared with 50mg/100g for oranges), possibly the highest known of any fruit.

Or eat a few rose hips (the size of very small grapes) if you live in the northern hemisphere. They're very tasty and make great jam.

This is the reason I always recommend a potent multivitamin to nearly everybody.

I think you reccomend multivitamins because you realize most people are lazy and want an easy solution to fill in the nutritional gaps in their diets. Multi's are a good solution but there are better ones for the perfectionists out there which also have different health benefits.

For old farts like me who have been training for over a decade, a high protein intake is absolutely imperative as it helps to force a positive nitrogen balance within the body. This simply means that your body is taking in more amino acids (the building blocks of protein) than it is metabolizing and kicking out in the form of urea. Coupled w/ exercise and adequate nutritional intake a positive nitrogen balance (extra amino acids) gives your muscles adequate building blocks to induce hypertrophy and grow.

Doesn't a high protein diet acidify the blood slightly? You have more urea in your bloodstream or would that large urea increase be neutralized by the pH buffers in the bloodstream.

 

[Jitterbug]

Where's the insane strength gain? I didn't see it.

Guys, he's a novice, don't need to complicate things.

If you're a 100lb guy and want to be a 200lb guy, you need to eat like a 200lb guy. Right now you're eating like a girl trying to lose weight.

It's not hard. Just eat more, like triple the amount you're currently eating. Having 1 egg for breakfast? What's wrong with you, eat half a dozen at least!

Don't worry about supplements, just eat more, eat till your jaw gets sore, then eat some more.

Aim to have full control of what you eat. No more of this "whatever mum cooks". You're 18 now, time to start being a man.

 

[Fuglydude]

Or eat two of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakadu_plum

They're tiny the size of grapes and grow in Australia.

Its vitamin C concentration may be as high as 3200-5000mg/100g[1] (compared with 50mg/100g for oranges), possibly the highest known of any fruit.

Or eat a few rose hips (the size of very small grapes) if you live in the northern hemisphere. They're very tasty and make great jam.

I think you reccomend multivitamins because you realize most people are lazy and want an easy solution to fill in the nutritional gaps in their diets. Multi's are a good solution but there are better ones for the perfectionists out there which also have different health benefits.

Doesn't a high protein diet acidify the blood slightly? You have more urea in your bloodstream or would that large urea increase be neutralized by the pH buffers in the bloodstream.

I agree that there are some fantastic fruits such as the ones you mentioned but for most of us, they're a pain in the butt to procure and consume regularly. In addition to vitamins they'll also have a lot of good phytonutrients that are great for our health. I'm lazy and rather just pop a multi!

Urea is actually a weak base... Structurally its a carbonyl group C=O(NH2)2... The lone pairs on the N in the NH2 groups can form a coordinate bond with protons, but urea cannot donate protons cuz the resulting anion would be too fundamentally unstable. Urea is produced in the liver from amino acid metabolism, and our kidneys, assuming they're healthy will clear urea without too many issues.

Blood pH is very tightly controlled in our bodies via either respiratory or metabolic buffering/compensation....Normal ranges are 7.35-7.45. For example, if one has respiratory acidosis caused by hypercapnia (too much CO2 in the blood), you'll get an increase in blood bicarb from renal bicarb reabsorption, and that'll buffer the pH... this is assuming you have healthy kidneys. Conversely, if you have metabolic acidosis from lets say sepsis and elevated blood lactate, and a low blood Bicarb cuz your kidneys suck, and resultant metabolic acidosis, you're gonna have to breath out CO2 to compensate for the metabolic acidosis using your respiratory system. Sorry for the run-on sentences, but I'm kinda sleep deprived.

Just check out:

http://www.anaesthesiamcq.com/AcidBaseBook/ABindex.php

If you want more info on respiratory/metabolic compensation, and general acid/base physiology.

 

[Konada]

Still trying to get my diet sorted out. I've cut out peanut butter and switched it for almond butter, got the 16oz meat down and added a daily banana to breakfast. So far, I've gained 1lbs since this thread started.

 

[EFFORT]

Still trying to get my diet sorted out. I've cut out peanut butter and switched it for almond butter, got the 16oz meat down and added a daily banana to breakfast. So far, I've gained 1lbs since this thread started.

What sort of challenges are you facing eating this everyday?

16oz of any meat (Fish, Beef, Chicken)

Have this shake twice ...... 3oz oats, 2scoops whey, 2raw eggs, 16oz milk (if you can digest milk)

2 cups brown rice

1cup salad or Broccoli ...or you can drink a v8 if your too stuffed


Also make sure to get in a gallon of water daily

 

[Konada]

What sort of challenges are you facing eating this everyday?

16oz of any meat (Fish, Beef, Chicken)

Have this shake twice ...... 3oz oats, 2scoops whey, 2raw eggs, 16oz milk (if you can digest milk)

2 cups brown rice

1cup salad or Broccoli ...or you can drink a v8 if your too stuffed


Also make sure to get in a gallon of water daily

The shake. I'm broke as hell to get whey, and I scrimped and saved for my weight gain powder sitting in my shelf right now. I've replaced the whey with the powder instead if that helps.

 

[Jariel]

I haven't read all the replies in this thread so I apologise if I'm covering old ground, but I see this happen a lot with guys who are new to the gym.

One reason is that they're not eating enough calories or protein. Judging your diet, you're getting a lot of calories, but you really need a LOT more protein. A whey protein shake 30 mins before or after your workout session is a high priority. If you're bulking, I'd also add a simple carb source around that time too, like a potato or two.

The other reason people don't grow is because they're not lifting for growth. They'll go to the gym, push out 4-5 reps with the highest weight they can handle, then the next week they'll try and raise it.

Ideally, if you want to grow, you need to be adding higher reps and making sure you keep perfect form. If you can't do more than 5 reps, you should reduce the weight you're lifting. Many bodybuilders go for 8-10 reps, though I've always preferred the 12-14 range.

You will hear a lot of conflicting views on reps, but in my own experience, it's the workload you put on your muscles that counts rather than the overall weight.

 

[Kerpal]

DO NOT modify the program any more than you already have. It is imperative that you do it exactly as written.

 

[Konada]

Idk.. I seem to fluctuate around 106-108lbs right now and not gaining any mass at all for the last 2 weeks. I've been tryin to follow EFFORT's diet to my best effort but nothing seems to be working.

 

[Bling]

Idk.. I seem to fluctuate around 106-108lbs right now and not gaining any mass at all for the last 2 weeks. I've been tryin to follow EFFORT's diet to my best effort but nothing seems to be working.

Drink a half gallon of milk every day. get back to me in two weeks.

 

[JDiddy]

36 raw eggs + 4 liters of full fat milk every day