Inner Game Issues: Success

[DragonBlood]

When I go into a new situation (not just girls) the first thing I do is worry. I want to succeed, so I think about all the things that could go wrong and on some level be prepared for them in case they happen. This has the effect of doing alot of nonsensical thinking when I should be focused on something else and also being very anxious during the situation itself with all the stuff in my head. And people on SS regularly point out I over think the **** out of things for this gut reaction reason.

This "cover your bases" thinking has proven to be a good strategy for day to day stuff and has helped my work life alot, but as my default strategy over time its proven very inefficient with my success with women and just enjoying life in general. Im a successful career person, intelligent and confident but objectively, not having a lot of fun living it.


Example, I was recently on a date with an average girl with medium interest. I opened leading questions, choose a nice location, physical, kiss before and after.... but throughout the whole interaction, I was feeling pretty anxious, not ONCE did I smile, not once was I actually enjoying myself. I was just following a process, relying on confidence and experience, covered my bases and was bored out of my mind as a result. It was a very dead experience.

A couple of days later I ask her to the movies and she says no, I am cool with it but take the chance to ask her if there was anything I did to put her off? She was very apologetic and thought I really was a great guy, she couldnt pick out anything specific but just didnt feel the "spark". I was less than surprised. Im treating girls like they are spread sheets, written exams or work partners.


This is just an example, I have had this inner game issue long before finding SS and really only in the past couple of months have become self aware of the core issue that is holding me back. While being raised my parents put my academic success above all else, disapproved of my early GFs straight up telling me not to waste my time seeing them, "dont follow your passion, play it safe, work hard, dont take risks etc" and to this day (in their 60s) they are still uncomfortable talking about relationships that dont lead to marriage with a marriage material girl. Back in my teenage years I dont even mean "restricted access" to girls, I mean sent to an all boys school and if the girl was from a "rough" family I was NOT allowed to see her. Im not blaming my folks, but this has obviously molded the person I am today around how to succeed in the world and I want to take corrective action now.


I could do with advice from people on where to go from here? How do I switch off my gut reaction to worry and plan? How do I change my perceptions and values around success? How do you keep your hamsters quiet??

I think this is a problem that is going to take years to fix because its so deeply rooted into my wiring, so I would appreciate both short term (today strategies) and long term suggestions (end goals) to help change my outlook. Especially around thinking less and having fun.

 

[Rainman4707]

I can relate on the worrying/thinking about things that could go wrong. Well you're realised you have a problem. That's great. First step to changing your behaviour.
It's like when you first ring a bird or when you're driving to meet her. Mr Negativity props his ugly head. I fu*king hate him. I just ignore him because he pops up at the most vital times for you & tries to fu*k things up. My advice about the worrying/overthinking would be ignore it

Hmm so you're treating women like data. Well yeah I'm the same especially in those first few dates. I can still relax & have fun though with the mentality that I'm the prize being indifferent, confident.

Can you relax & have fun with the mentality that you are the prize whilst mixing in a bit game??

P.s I like your posts. I can relate & you seem like a guy who is putting in the work which is vital...if you most self help books the main thing is do the fu*king work

 

[Rainman4707]

Sorry the last sentence should read :- if you read most self help books the main thing is do the fu*king work

I will check my posts everytime before I post from now on.

 

[DragonBlood]

Thanks Rainman Ive really like to put myself out there and improve on my outer game, cold approach, volunteer work, gym, bars etc to see what actually works. With things quieting down over the christmas I want to take the opportunity to recharge and look at fixing my inner game. I have the lifestyle and experience now I just have to get my head on straight!

Can you relax & have fun with the mentality that you are the prize whilst mixing in a bit game??

I definitely can around friends, unattractive girls or girls that already have bfs. I feel like the pressure is off. But when it comes to a hot girl who is single and interested in more then I start to kick into over-analysis mode... As Im fully aware that my actions as a man will direct the outcome.

I am actually fearful of commitment. For most guys it seems to me the girl is their main source of happiness while holding down a 9-5 whatever job that they dislike, but for me its actually my work and moving to the top that excites me! Girls in my past have been a source of drama and "maintenance", I tend to upset them by not texting enough or not spending enough time with them. Im more picky now that my game has improved but I still see them generally as a burden that will pull me down. My biggest fear of all is knocking up some random hoe and having to support her kids and settle down, where I would have otherwise saved the money to travel abroad or start my own business. Now that takes the fun out of sex and relationships.

The second I tell a girl about my line of work and education, plus all the pre-established cold approach confidence, their eyes usually light up with *gasp money, life style, hot guy*. The best "pick up line" I have ever found to get girls excited is "Im actually a PhD". Now shes engaged, pushing for sex and I feel like a cash cow. I had an experience 3 months ago with a HB3, actively stalking me, gaming me hard and pulling me into her bedroom at a party (I walked out)... All because my friends talked me up and she was in a low pay retail job... not particularly feeling the vibe of my less driven needy friends basically orbiting her for years in equally low pay jobs. I am not particularly well off at this point in my life at all and do not need a "voice of reason" managing my money while Im still trying to grow it.

I am not stupid though, I am approaching my 30s and if I realistically want a harem of cute and supportive HB8s I have to take action now. So I get this internal conflict, worry and just try to rely on confidence and technique to push through it. I want to start my own business ultimately and take risks in my life. A girl changes your life direction like no other, and for me success with women also means less success in my career. Alot of the dating coaches such as corey wayne talk about the importance of "focusing on your mission in life" but for me that also kicks in fear of letting girls into my life general. I want to succeed, but I dont want to succeed......


Now dont get me wrong, I LOVE women, but this fear of commitment and over thinking the outcome is my internal conflict.

My life plan basically follows:
1. Finish PhD over the next 2-3 years
2. Travel the world for 6 months to a year
3. Start own business or top job I can get in selected country from travel

In the mean time I obviously still want to enjoy sex, lifestyle and relationships, most likely these will be girls I will call back into my life later. But anything that creates a problem that deviates me from reaching my goals such as crushy feelings or kids is always a place of fear sapping the fun out of the experience in addition of course to the usual new girl anxiety everyone has.

 

[Atom Smasher]

You need to shift your focus from "accomplishing" to having fun.

Be the guy who provides fun and enjoyment for yourself first and for those around you second. Everything else falls into place after that.

Women are attracted to men who have control and mastery over their environment. A lighthearted yet strong man is very attractive to women. That means a man who conveys that he is outcome independent. He is enjoying the moment for his own sake.

 

[Rainman4707]

Well done DragonBlood...it seems you are doing well for yourself

As AtomSmasher writes its good that you are focusing on yourself

When I'm out with a woman my mentality is yes I want to impress, but plenty of other women out there The more dates/time you spend with women the better you'll get.

Wow that's deep Lifestyle v Women. Most on here would say concentrate on lifestyle then you will get a lot of women.

What do you want? What is your goal/goals??

You see. I want a family so I've bought a house & commited to mortgage, now I'm looking for a woman, so my focus is on women

 

[BraddH]

Oh my god. You realized your problem but still you intend to repeat your problems? You say: you have been following a advice, a progress, a pattern and that has ruined your spontaneous, living in the moment and so on. But here you are again, asking for patterns, ready made plans?

Stop thinking too much and just live spontaneously enjoying the moment. Just relax down and see the present moment. You almost never even live: you are always either in the past or in the future, thinking about your past that is already dead and your future that has never even come. Can you see my point? You are dead in a way. Only the present moment, the now and here is alive.

 

[Aware]

throughout the whole interaction, I was feeling pretty anxious, not ONCE did I smile, not once was I actually enjoying myself. I was just following a process, relying on confidence and experience, covered my bases and was bored out of my mind as a result. It was a very dead experience.

(...) Im treating girls like they are spread sheets, written exams or work partners.

There is no difference in your actions between treating people like that and being genuine. Your chances in this case were handicaped only by cognitive dissonance - your inner dislike to treat a date like a game. But it was a game, life is a game. If you play it anyway, you could at least enjoy it.

 

[Serenity]

Well, my family wasn't that conservative. That's good for them, because they dodged my rebellion. Basically had no reason to rebel against people who encouraged me to follow my passion and allowed me to be free.

Seems that is the road you have to go down, it's a hard road even considering I was raised like that. Figure out what it would take to make you happy and have fun with life, figure out how to achieve it. You'll probably have to create a massive drama if you want your parents to accept you. Even if they don't, what kind of parents doesn't wish their child to have a good life?

You feel the safety is just killing you, and whenever you move outside the comfort zone you feel anxiety. I can tell you straight away that what's fun is exactly playing with uncertainty, the unexpected things we all laugh about later. A good story that people laugh about is mostly about how massively they fvcked up, but it ended well anyways.

Self-exploration is insanely important to develop character and have depth in life.

 

[Demonpenz]

glad you are honest. You get honest about your issues you can fix em. You are still ahead by a ton in the game.

 

[DragonBlood]

@Atom Smasher: What I think you are describing is outer game and what compounds the issue for me. "A lighthearted yet strong man is very attractive to women.", I have mis-interpreted this advice to "accomplish" this as a goal without first focusing on what is causing the conflict and lack of light heartedness in my life.

@Rainman: Thanks, my biggest problem isnt with women but I am quickly hitting a cross road with what I want to do with my life in the long run. I am also struggling to see the difference between people who like me for me and bring value to my life and those that are trying to "game" their way into my lifestyle now that things are finally coming together. I decided to complete the questions in the following Tip Thread to understand what is important to me. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138896

I am not as grounded as you are, probably from my parents discouragement from taking or supporting any risks. The summary of the questions I answered is: "explore new ideas, hobbies and interests, become a role model for others through my actions and words, take risks, push my luck and start my own business". I basically want to leave enough room in my life to explore what this world has to offer until something really "clicks", instead of living out a life set out by someone else (parents, partners, kids etc). The fear of pregnancy or toxic influences walking into my life is pretty high.

@BraddH: I see your point Like I said this kind of thinking is deeply rooted so I know an overnight fix isnt going to happen. The way I have tried to rationalise the importance of fun is this: "fun is a deep instinctual feeling in your gut designed by evolution to save you time and effort, if something isnt fun perhaps you should start to question why." This advice is obviously in moderation but up until THIS WEEK I never saw the "core value" in pursing fun. It always confused me greatly to see people wasting their time playing games and going out when they would just ending up hurting themselves in the future. Looks like I was only half right on this!

@Aware: I have obviously spend quite a bit of time trying to think my way to the top and be as successful as I can possibly be, this has lead to alot of anxiety and instead of relaxing and focusing on my work just burning myself out on techniques and game. Something RSD Jeffy said really resonated with me this week. "There is a reason 'the game' isnt called 'the work'". I am over-focused on trying to make things work to the point I have forgot that the game is just meant to be fun. This tidbit of knowledge has really helped me relax and focus more attention onto my hobbies and work instead of the perfect way of winning over this girl or that.

@Grewd: I have already created massive drama with my folks several years ago. They would shoot down my passions and distaste for "9-5" jobs and told me to focus on getting through college and getting a good job. This lead me to rebel further and over-compensate by spending hours and hours pursing my passion designing software in addition to getting through college to show "it could be done", this was met with total lack of interest and annoyance for not putting priority on my classes like my other siblings. Eventually this lead to an argument where I felt my parents didnt love "me" or support my passions at all, but instead only loved what they wanted for me. I just felt like I was being manipulated and discouraged at every turn to underachieve. This shocked my parents as they didnt realise how important it was to me to follow my own desire to start a business but still didnt see the value in what I was saying and encouraged me to delay for as long as possible.

I eventually realised I was wasting my time chasing my parents for validation and support that wasnt going to come and have cut back their influence over my life as much as I can. I really thought my dad in particular could help me because he ran his own business for 30 years of his life but the only advice he was willing to offer was not to "make the same mistakes I did" by pursing this dream and instead to go for the security and comfort of a 9-5. I still respect my parents for the opportunities they did give me, but I dont look at them the same way with unconditional trust like I did in my teens. Its like a part of my naivety and youth died when I made the decision to give up, think for myself and realise I really was on my own.

@Demonpenz: Thanks, I completely agree.

 

[DragonBlood]

Recently, I went to a wild west themed "Mystery Murder" party. This is similar to the board game cluedo where you have to find the murder but you dress up and role play the characters and bribe people for their secrets using pretend cash.

This party has been on my mind for at least a month as I was aware an old oneitis from a year ago was going to be there. My objective was to take everything I know about game to turn this one around, but after creating this thread I tried to be honest with myself that this kind of "goal based" thinking is futile and causing my unhappiness in the first place. The party MIGHT be an opportunity for something to happen but it should really just be an opportunity for you to enjoy yourself, if you do see this girl just have fun like you would everybody else. 60 years from now I want to look back at this and think "I respected myself, I had a good time that night".

In the end I was given the role of a cowboy at the saloon and she was a dancer. I avoided her for half the night until I was vibing and warmed up. Eventually we were both into the swing of things and bumped into each other a couple of times which escalated to this. I had connections with one of the theatre owners. She was hanging with one of her orbiters.

DB: Hey do you want to be a super star?
HB: No, give me 100 dollars and I will give you a dirty pic.
DB: I dont know, do you not have any rumors?
Orb: Give me 50 dollars and I will tell you what the pic is.
DB: Ok sure
HB: You will give him 50 dollars for NOTHING? You are throwing your money away!
DB: I am saving 50 dollars
Orb: Its a pic of her legs
<start dealing with orbitor until another women pulls me away and starts to dance with me because I was getting too much info from this person about the murder>


I then notice another chance to "win over" my oneitis later on in the night where she is dancing on the floor alone. I catch myself in the process unsure how to proceed. A part of me wants to go for it, but another part of me reminds me that I dont enjoy dancing, its always been more her passion and I would only be doing it to try and manipulate the game. Unless I FEEL like dancing I am not going to, so I just ignore and talk to a different girl. A part of me was also afraid of winning over my oneitis through technique and balls because I was afraid of how much power this person still holds over me if things actually went anywhere. Do I really want to pursue a women who I do not share interests in? That I need to ignore my own feelings of enjoyment and force myself into situations to like?

Overall I had a lot of fun by not trying to control the outcome and feel stupid for stressing the importance of the event in the first place. I also feel like I earned respect from my old oneitis as she opened up more through the night by just allowing her to enjoy the party and have fun also. I felt more human and authentic in my purpose by the end of the night and threw some game around for fun with other people.

I feel slightly happier and unburdened than when I first created this thread because I have less hamsters running trying to sabotage me (for now). I am starting to understand the mentality a little better thanks to your feedback but its still a difficult mental process of catching myself and really trying to think about where I am coming from with my intent. Its still easier to run ONE hamster checking myself and how I feel than running multiple hamsters trying to understand and manipulate how other individual people feel towards me to push a "successful" outcome.

 

[Tortendieb]

1. Finish PhD over the next 2-3 years
2. Travel the world for 6 months to a year
3. Start own business or top job I can get in selected country from travel

Good on you. I did all that. Now I'm back from my travels and have a job that I enjoy.

I realized - though - that my insecurities have not disappeared. Just traveling, working etc. isn't going to fix your girl problems. You're just running away from it. If it's a big deal to you then deal with it. You gotta put in the work sooner or later.

 

[Atom Smasher]

@Atom Smasher: What I think you are describing is outer game and what compounds the issue for me. "A lighthearted yet strong man is very attractive to women.", I have mis-interpreted this advice to "accomplish" this as a goal without first focusing on what is causing the conflict and lack of light heartedness in my life.

The following is a little preachy, but that's nothing new...

Screw all that navel-gazing. It will get you nowhere; in fact it will only twist you up some more.

It doesn't matter what the reasons were/are. Nothing matters but DECISION. Decide to take matters into your own hands from this moment forth and just DO. Next time you walk out that door, hit your internal reset button and DECIDE to have fun and enjoy the moment. The accomplishment of this DOING will be its own reward.

Just keep on reminding yourself throughout the day to be present and to squeeze enjoyment out of each minute and each hour. You will continually fall back into the old frame of mind, but you are training yourself into a new mental habit and therefore you need to take your attention off of outcome and put it on the doing.

It's just like a baby learning to walk, a man learning to play guitar, or any other skill or art. You just do it. You embrace the inevitable corrective experiences (that which the rest of the world calls "failures").

Demand enjoyment out of life. Optimism and a positive outlook can be learned by continual reinforcement.

“I bargained with Life for a penny,
And Life would pay no more,
However I begged at evening
When I counted my scanty store;

For Life is just an employer,
He gives you what you ask,
But once you have set the wages,
Why, you must bear the task.

I worked for a menial's hire,
Only to learn, dismayed,
That any wage I had asked of Life,
Life would have paid.”

― Jessie B. Rittenhouse


Take life by the scruff of the neck and DEMAND. Demand from life, and demand from yourself. Demand of yourself that you will reframe your outlook come hell or high water. TAKE what is yours. Whatever events in the past which caused you to be negative are simply perpetuating the inner voice of the wounded child within. You must drown that child out with ruthless, sustained action.

TAKE. DO you remember a time when you got so sick of something that you just said, screw it, and took massive action, and felt massive relief? After that you wondered why you didn't take that action a long time ago, and you wondered why you couldn't sustain it across the board.

Taking and demanding of life is simply composed of developing new thought habits.

Ruthless reframing, ruthless hitting that inner reset button thousands and thousands of times will make a man of poise and confidence out of you.

Decide that action will determine your emotions instead of circumstances. When you want to be happy, let it be from your own actions. When you want to be fulfilled, again, let it be from your own actions. Don't let yourself become happy or fulfilled by happenstance.

"From this day forth my own actions are going to determine my emotions and mood. I have power over my actions and thoughts, and therefore I have power over my moods."

Socialize to have fun yourself, and to provide fun to others secondarily, but do not socialize to get people to like you. That is many men's downfall, and was mine for decades. To do this you need to train yourself to emotionally detach, and that can feel weird and scary at first. Everything new feels weird and scary.

TAKE.

 

[Aware]

Socialize to have fun yourself, and to provide fun to others secondarily, but do not socialize to get people to like you.

People are socializing to get others to like them. This is written in our DNA, something we gained through thousands of years of evolution. As I said before, there is no apparent difference between being genuine and consciously chosing to befriend people. Most people are not aware of their own little manipulations, even though their social lives are based on them.
Don't waste your energy on trying to be genuine, because it's like a happy ending - it doesn't exist. Instead, embrace your knowledge of the game, boldly walk into social situations and use it as you see fit.

My grandfather once told me that it's not work, if I enjoy doing it. DragonBlood, the only way to stop playing the game of life is a suicide. Unless you want that or to "work" and be unhappy, follow my grandfather's advice.

 

[Atom Smasher]

My point is that by detaching from the outcome you will remove awkward impediments that have the effect of repelling people.

A race car driver, for example, of course wants to win and obtain that trophy. But when he gets behind the wheel of that car, his focus needs to be in that undefinable zone, not obsessing about the outcome but rather driving that car and becoming one with it.

Likewise, I'm a guitarist who enjoys a bit of local fame. When I get on stage, I know that if I think about technique, about the audience, and about playing well, I'm guaranteed to have a very bad night.

But I'm well past that, and instead I focus on playing to and for myself, and secondarily to the audience. It's a detached focus that cannot be defined, really. This guarantees that I'm going to blow people away with a genuine performance.

Edit:
I also notice just as I write this that on stage I'm releasing and throttling the stored energy that I obtained by practice and woodshedding. That's where I'm concentrating... on throttling that inner energy I stored earlier. This applies to game too. I believe that throttling the output of energy (knowledge picked up here and elsewhere) is actually what we call "poise" (self-control and self-assuredness while under pressure). Contrary to what many believe, poise can be learned.
end edit

You are absolutely right that we socialize to get others to like us. It's that self-consciousness, that manipulation of the people around us that implodes on us. We need to learn to harness the power of paradox. By detaching and becoming outcome independent, we attract what we want and what we need.

By far, the best way to detach in proper balance is to go in desiring to enjoy the experience, and to go in providing value to others around you.

 

[BraddH]

I was thinking that this forum knows not. But it seems that a few here including Atom knows. Focus more on what Atom teaches rather than all the dogmas that are taught here.

 

[Aware]

Edit:
I also notice just as I write this that on stage I'm releasing and throttling the stored energy that I obtained by practice and woodshedding. That's where I'm concentrating... on throttling that inner energy I stored earlier. This applies to game too. I believe that throttling the output of energy (knowledge picked up here and elsewhere) is actually what we call "poise" (self-control and self-assuredness while under pressure). Contrary to what many believe, poise can be learned.
end edit

You are absolutely right that we socialize to get others to like us. It's that self-consciousness, that manipulation of the people around us that implodes on us. We need to learn to harness the power of paradox. By detaching and becoming outcome independent, we attract what we want and what we need.

By far, the best way to detach in proper balance is to go in desiring to enjoy the experience, and to go in providing value to others around you.

You are saying that achieving a state of flow can be learned through practice. Thank you for this.

I am an extremely self-conscious person, thankfully with some effort it shifted from beating myself to being an observer and strategist. I consider being prone to self-consciousness a blessing (hence my nickname), but it can be a burden as well, because unconscious mind is much quicker to act.

But if any skill can be internalized and turned into a state of flow with practice, I can have a cake and eat it too. Observe, get into action, then analyze possible improvements.

 

[Bingo-Player]

i think the easiest way to do this is to find something in common with her or take her to a place with people you know and an environment your comfortable in