In process of creating a skinny guy routine. some q's

[xHiGHPoTeniaL]

Routine/diet
Ok so I know what actual exercises work best for me, but my issue is the with only going to the gym 3-4x a week. I just lost my job so I'll be bored in the next few weeks and looking to go 5 days a week. Was thinking some type of routine similiar to this. Havent been in the gym regularly for over a year so I will be weak as hell but wanna workout on this schedule:

MONDAY
Chest/Tri's/Abs

TUESDAY
Back/Bi's

WEDNESDAY
Shoulders(delts/traps)/Legs/Abs

THURSDAY- Less intense overall
Chest/Tri's

FRIDAY- Less intense overall
Back/Bi's/Abs

SATURDAY
Abs/Streching

I worked out on a very similiar schedule a cpl years back and didnt feel as though I was overworking myself. Also if I miss thurs or friday's workout it wasnt a big deal which was nice. As you would expect, I'm looking for as much gains as possible in the next month or so with beach weather coming soon any advice or comments on my routine are welcome.

I also run a mile in the mornings which I really enjoy and dont wanna cut out but I'm trying hard to gain weight. This 7 minute morning can't be all that bad tho am i right? I know EVERY guide here says NO cardio but just wondering. Thanks for the input

 

[Cure]

Far to much upper body, nothing like enough lower body. You are making this to complicated.

Google "starting strenght" and do that routine to the letter for a few months, combined with lots of whole milk, fish and meat, if that doesnt work, nothing will.

Cure.

 

[Jitterbug]

Skinny guy eh? Squat 3 times a week and GOMAD (gallon of milk a day). That will sort you out.

3-4 times a week is more than enough working out.

This is what so many newbies don't understand. You Do Not Grow In The Gym.

That's right: you don't get big or lose fat while working out.

Workout = stimulation
Food = fuel
Sleep = when the hormones kick in with the stimulation & fuel and do their magic (fat loss, muscle gains etc.)

Far too many kill themselves at the gym then flush their efforts down the toilet with mediocre diet and lack of sleep.

 

[xHiGHPoTeniaL]

Ok so i'm thinking of using the starting strength routine but I"m wondering about some of your gains over this pretty long amount of time cure. If your weight is at 73kg(160lbs?), you've only gained 10lbs in over 6 months of using this program and a good diet? That doesn't seem very good. Just curious because your starting stats are almost identical to my current height & weight (155lbs, 5' 10").

3 years ago I weighed 175 and was really happy with how i looked, but I got that way thru wrestling practice and a very simliar program to what posted (stolen from my schools off-season football workout). I also blew up once I took cell-tech, not sure how much that had to with it.

Your strength gains are great i can see from the numbers in your journal but I'm curious how you look (no homo lol) because being honest, I could care less about legs and although I'm working out to become stronger, I'm much more interested right now in gaining mass and looking bigger.. the beach muscle basically lol not gunna lie. And i'm curious if starting strength is the right program for this?

 

[RMM]

The legs have some really big muscles. And not only that, leg exercises like squats will connect that leg work to core and back/glute work. This all results in huge stimulation for the whole body, not just the legs.

After 6 weeks of Squats and Milk (3 20-repper squats a week) my upper back got the biggest increase in size I've ever had - that's what happens when you have to hold a 100 kg bar on your back for 3 minutes straight.

Really, big compound exercises stimulate everything. You can't squat big without a big back to rest the weight and big arms to secure it. You've probably read this before (it's everywhere when looking at the starter weightlifting routines), but I got to experience it firsthand when I started doing them. It works.

 

[runner83]

I also run a mile in the mornings which I really enjoy and dont wanna cut out but I'm trying hard to gain weight. This 7 minute morning can't be all that bad tho am i right? I know EVERY guide here says NO cardio but just wondering. Thanks for the input

I think the main issues from your post have been covered above.

I just wanted to note the point about cardio. Regardless of what is said, cardio is important to aid in burning fat and keep your cardiovascular system healthy.

Weight training is focused on the muscles (obviously), and why focus exclusively only on that part of your body when cardio also helps so many others?

Simply up your calorie intake (with quality food or whey protein) to compensate.

When I first started out lifting seriously, I continued doing cardio about 5 times a week, normally running / cycling for 40 - 50 minutes per session. I was doing 2 weights workouts per week, training to muscular failure on each and every exercise.

And yet I gained 10kg (maybe 22 pounds) in the first 10 weeks.

Why? Because I ate and ate and ate. I bought a 20 kg bag of whey protein and it disappeared pretty quick.

Also, be careful with regards to timing between your cardio and weight workouts, in particular your legs.

Good luck!

 

[CaptainJ]

Ok so i'm thinking of using the starting strength routine but I"m wondering about some of your gains over this pretty long amount of time cure. If your weight is at 73kg(160lbs?), you've only gained 10lbs in over 6 months of using this program and a good diet? That doesn't seem very good. Just curious because your starting stats are almost identical to my current height & weight (155lbs, 5' 10").

3 years ago I weighed 175 and was really happy with how i looked, but I got that way thru wrestling practice and a very simliar program to what posted (stolen from my schools off-season football workout). I also blew up once I took cell-tech, not sure how much that had to with it.

Your strength gains are great i can see from the numbers in your journal but I'm curious how you look (no homo lol) because being honest, I could care less about legs and although I'm working out to become stronger, I'm much more interested right now in gaining mass and looking bigger.. the beach muscle basically lol not gunna lie. And i'm curious if starting strength is the right program for this?

I gained about 35lbs on starting strength. There's a testimonial for you. Your original routine will not work. Starting strength is the best you can go for to get big at beginner stage.

 

[xHiGHPoTeniaL]

Ok so I did my run this morning a little faster but I think maybe that from now on Ill only run on days I'm not gunna work out because doing squats right now (ran just now, lil later than usual) would be rough. I really pushed myself on the run today. I'm really interested in running this 5k on June 5th though, will trying to train for that rly hamper my weight gain goals? (Which is to hit at least 170lbs, not sure of a time frame yet tho)

Now my other questions are diet related. My first is that I typically drink 1% milk. SHould i switch to whole or 2%?

And heres a sample of what todays meals should look like. I've been doing calculations to find how many calories i'm getting but its a pure estimate at best. I'm also a reformed picky eater so this aint easy finding stuff I actually will enjoy eating this much.

I woke up late at 11am, but heres the plan for rest of the day:

(run in morning)
Meal 1- Breakfast shake = 2 eggs(should i add another?), 1 banana, 1 instant brkfast packet, 1 scoop of peanut butter, made with about 2 cups of 1% milk

Meal 2(i'm about to have right now)- Likely will be either a PB&J sandwich or ham/turkey/chesse sandwich on wheat bread, lil bit of mayo

(workout occurs at this time or late night)

Meal 3- 2-3 scoops of Cytogainer weightgainer powder with 1% milk

Meal 4- Ravioli with tomato sauce, along with a big glass or 2 of milk

Meal 5- Thinking of going with either a shake or chicken & rice

(will go to gym here today)

Meal 6- PB&J along with 1-2 scoops of Cytogainer

(All shakes are made with at LEAST 1 cup of milk, not water)
I dont have a protein powder atm(in the mail), but not trying to go too crazy with the weight gainer as its got a shyt load of cholesterol in it, and i've been told awhile ago mine is high enuff already.

yesterdays eating although not too healthy, but I got in a shyt load of calories. But I went to the bathroom 3x before 12:30 lol. i'm not kidding.

Meal 1- cytogainer shake (3 scoops)
Meal 2- PB&J
Meal 3- Large plate of baked ziti
Meal 4- About a cup or so of ziti, followed by cytogianer shake(2 scoops)
Meal 5- Taco bell (stuffed chicken burrito & pototatos)
Meal 6- Cytogainer shake (2 scoops)

Not great like i said but a shyt load of calories. Thanks for any input on how I can improve this.

 

[CarlitosWay]

I gained about 35lbs on starting strength. There's a testimonial for you. Your original routine will not work. Starting strength is the best you can go for to get big at beginner stage.

35 lbs of what? that could have been 25 lbs of fat/glycogen/water and only 10 lbs of muscle. What was your bf% at before and than after those 35 lbs?

Starting strength isn't a have to do routine, depends on goals of the individual. If a real new kid comes up to me and says I want to learn how to power lift...I'd prob have him do starting strength, if a new kid comes up to me and says "I want to be a bodybuilder and get as big as my genetics allow" WHY WOULD I GIVE HIM STARTING STRENGTH? I'd help him design a split around compound movements more isolation work and have him in the gym 4-5 times a week.

 

[xHiGHPoTeniaL]

I had similiar thoughts carlitosway. I'm not at all new to working out(been working out on and off since high school, 26 now), just never experimented with different programs.

I think I'll go with starting strength for the next cpl weeks but will eventually switch back to something similiar to 4-5 days a week with:
day 1 - chest/tri
day 2 - back
day 3 - shoulders
day 4 - bi's
day 5 - legs either here or on 1 of the previous 4

somehow combining these with the ability to do some compound movements would be good w/o exhausting myself. but this all depends are where i'm at the end of this week and if i'm sore as hell, i'll just keep doin what i'm doin.

 

[CarlitosWay]

I had similiar thoughts carlitosway. I'm not at all new to working out(been working out on and off since high school, 26 now), just never experimented with different programs.

I think I'll go with starting strength for the next cpl weeks but will eventually switch back to something similiar to 4-5 days a week with:
day 1 - chest/tri
day 2 - back
day 3 - shoulders
day 4 - bi's
day 5 - legs either here or on 1 of the previous 4

somehow combining these with the ability to do some compound movements would be good w/o exhausting myself. but this all depends are where i'm at the end of this week and if i'm sore as hell, i'll just keep doin what i'm doin.

Looks do this
chest/tris/bis
legs
off
shoulders/back
off

Very simple, good frequency, you're hitting muscles essentially twice every 7 days.

pick two pressing movements for chest, one fly movement
pick one pressing movement for tris and one extension

pick one real good bicep exercise and one real good forearm exercise

legs
pick 2-3 quad movements
leg extensions/squats/machine squats ramp to one heavy ass set on an exercise and than some lighter work after on the same exercise or another movement

pick one good hamstring exercise
legcurls/sldls/glute ham raises(actually rack deadlifts hit my hamstrings damn good too)

calves...if they suck do them always at the start and try hitting them any time you're in the gym, alternating between standing and seated variations, doing everything from balls to walls heavy ass sets, to drop sets, slow negatives, you have to give em hell.

I always do ab work after legs and back....I'll do roman chair ab work, decline reverse crunches, hanging leg raises, that sort of stuff, ab wheels are brutal too.

 

[Cure]

Hey dude.

10lb would be ****.. but thats not what I gained. I got up to a high of 77 kilo, a gain of over 20lb, on SS, but I was getting a bit to much of a gut. Ive lost 4kg or so in the last month, but actually become stronger in that period.
I've just added in martial arts training so Im going to see how that goes, but still trying to gain weight.

I look pretty damn good, really wide shoulders, slim at the waste. Very happy ascetically but more so with my strength gains.

SS hasn't put a massive ammount of weight on me, but I didnt do it perfectly for the six months.

Im not on SS any more but I'm still using the same principles- 3x5, big compound lifts, lots of food and rest.

Id definatly reccomend it, even if your not "into" leg training, why not train them.. the hormone response will help a lot with the rest of your body.

Try SS for a couple of months, drink whole milk, I think youll be pretty impressed.

One thing I would day is keep up the cardio, I stopped all cardio for 6 months and it was a massive error. No point being strong if you cant run to catch a bus!!

Cure.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Hey dude.

10lb would be ****.. but thats not what I gained. I got up to a high of 77 kilo, a gain of over 20lb, on SS, but I was getting a bit to much of a gut. Ive lost 4kg or so in the last month, but actually become stronger in that period.
I've just added in martial arts training so Im going to see how that goes, but still trying to gain weight.

I look pretty damn good, really wide shoulders, slim at the waste. Very happy ascetically but more so with my strength gains.

Sounds like you have a pretty good build...care to post Any pictures? I have all mine posted in the Brotherhood of Iron thread, if curious., my upperbody is far behind me legs, this coming from my more experienced/bigger bodybuilding friends..

SS hasn't put a massive ammount of weight on me, but I didnt do it perfectly for the six months.

Im not on SS any more but I'm still using the same principles- 3x5, big compound lifts, lots of food and rest.

Id definatly reccomend it, even if your not "into" leg training, why not train them.. the hormone response will help a lot with the rest of your body.

Try SS for a couple of months, drink whole milk, I think youll be pretty impressed.

One thing I would day is keep up the cardio, I stopped all cardio for 6 months and it was a massive error. No point being strong if you cant run to catch a bus!!

Cure.

Cardio=over rated, sprints pay out a lot more...only thing I'd recommend him doing is some light cardio on mornings where he's not doing much to rev up appetite/metabolism for the day

 

[Cure]

Yeah I didn't mean cardio as in "run 5 miles at a steady pace"

When I didn't do anything but weights, I lost A LOT of fitness, I went from running 3 miles none stop, to running 3 hundred meters and having to stop to catch my breath, my body just wasnt used to being 10kg heavier.

Now Im a few kilos lighter and just as fit as I used to be, plan on getting fitter. I use 20 minute interval runs on the treadmill, its working a treat.

I will post pics at some point, nothing to hide, just not till I've hit a few more fitness goals.

Cure.

 

[Jitterbug]

Cardio = sprints, burpees, DB/KB/BB complexes

High intensity, explosive, optionally with weights.

 

[RMM]

Not great like i said but a shyt load of calories. Thanks for any input on how I can improve this.

Okay, I'm hoping someone more experienced will give you more detailed input, but for what you've posted, I don't see nearly enough protein.

When I was balls-out bulking with the Squats and Milk, I was having 4 eggs during breakfast, 3 litres of full cream milk, 2 pounds of meat/fish/poultry, and a tuna sammich and a protein shake after the gym - every day. I used to go through two pots of peanut butter a week. My weekly supermarket trips were hilarious, it looked as if I was buying for a whole family.

Granted, I was 90 kg at the time, but the bottom line is that you need to EAT like crazy. Don't start suddenly, ramp it up, but eat as much as your finances will allow.

If you look at the stickies, this is what EFFORT had to say:

Diet

This is very simple. You'll be eating at least 6 meals a day spaced out every 2-3hours. You'll eat 2g of protein x your body weight. You'll get the majority of your protein intake from EGGS and RED MEAT. Protein from carbs(eg pasta, bread, rice) do not count towards your protein total.

Carbs and Fats. This is a tougher one here to cookie cutter everyone to. As a starting point, keep your carb total 40g less than your protein total and your fat total in the 120-155g range. Also cut carbs 3hours before bed.

If you browse through the vault and look at other posts about diets, you'll find something similar, some recommend more carbs, some recommend more protein. But going by the 2g/pound, you should be looking at about 300 g of protein a day. That's more than a kilo of meat, if that was to be your only source of protein!

Of course meat isn't all you'll eat (eggs, milk, protein shakes...), and you will tweak your diet by listening to what your body tells you. But in the meantime, eat more protein! And drink a lot of water.

 

[xHiGHPoTeniaL]

Errrrrr.. just deleted a long ass post. but thanx for all of the input from everybody so far. carlitosway, will def. be trying out that routine in the future, it looks perfect for me. Plus todays workout was pretty damn good.

I did:
press machine - 3 x 5 175, 190, 195 Dunno how pathetic that is but I doubt its good. I really didnt like theyre press machine and would have rather done bench press but damn I'm gunna be pretty embarrassed if I hafta slap something less than 35lbs'ers on there. Plus they were all taken, sad statement for such a big gym.

smith machine squats - 3 x 5 70, 90, 110 Started way too low and I'm sure these numbers are pretty sad as well. Was going down far though and rly concentrated on form. doubt 'starting strength' founders like the smith machine variation though.

chinnies - 3 x failure Pretty standard, could only bnag out 5-6 good ones.

Pull downs with rope - 3 x 5 I just had to add one little thing seeing as how I flew through this workout and couldnt believe how fast I was done. My ab routine took longer it felt like.

As far as eating I think I did much better today, we'll see though. Thanx RMM for the input though.
Meal 1 - 2 eggs(will add 2 more tommorrow.. eww), 1 banana, 1 instant brkfast packet, 1 scoop of peanut butter, made with about 2 cups of 1% milk
Meal 2 - ham/turkey/cheese on whole wheat w/ mayo
Meal 3 - Cytogainer shake 2 1/2 scoops
Meal 4 - Ravioli and tomato sauce (32 ravioli = lots of calories + protein from cheese)
Meal 5 - Cytogainer shake 2 scoops
Meal 6 - 2 hamburgers (86% lean) with a can of beans
Meal 6/post workout - Cytogainer shake 2 1/2 scoops
Meal 7 - ?
Might hafta hav one last lil thing before I pass out, although I'm stuffed as hellll right now(maybe lil ganja will help the appetite lol..). Also left out lots of glasses of milk. At least 2 8-12oz glasses with each meal. Also at least 2 cups in each shake(morning shake & cyto shakes). Getting there..

 

[Jitterbug]

Little tip on eating while trying to gain weight: if you're enjoying your meals and the taste, you're not eating enough. Treat it as an exercise for your jaws. Chew them motherfvckers!

 

[EFFORT]

If you look at the stickies, this is what EFFORT had to say:

Diet

This is very simple. You'll be eating at least 6 meals a day spaced out every 2-3hours. You'll eat 2g of protein x your body weight. You'll get the majority of your protein intake from EGGS and RED MEAT. Protein from carbs(eg pasta, bread, rice) do not count towards your protein total.

Carbs and Fats. This is a tougher one here to cookie cutter everyone to. As a starting point, keep your carb total 40g less than your protein total and your fat total in the 120-155g range. Also cut carbs 3hours before bed.

Just want to say this here was some general advice to get people going, please don't swear by it. Diet advice is very specific to that person and there goals.

OP: What is your exact goal? Find a picture of what you want to look like and post a link here. Your spinning your wheels until you define this.

 

[CaptainJ]

35 lbs of what? that could have been 25 lbs of fat/glycogen/water and only 10 lbs of muscle. What was your bf% at before and than after those 35 lbs?

Starting strength isn't a have to do routine, depends on goals of the individual. If a real new kid comes up to me and says I want to learn how to power lift...I'd prob have him do starting strength, if a new kid comes up to me and says "I want to be a bodybuilder and get as big as my genetics allow" WHY WOULD I GIVE HIM STARTING STRENGTH? I'd help him design a split around compound movements more isolation work and have him in the gym 4-5 times a week.

Chill mate, we've been over this argument many a time. Never said Starting Strength is a have to do routine, I'm just saying it's superior in terms of his goals: getting big. We've already discussed how starting strength and linear progression is superior to a split, in terms of gaining bulk and getting strong, due to the fact you are squatting 3x a week. Not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, and not everyone wants to be a PLer, and starting strength provides a good base for someone to do whatever the hell they want, be it PLing, BBing or Olympic lifting. You need to have a good base strength if you want to do BBing, so you might as well get there the quickest way possible through linear progression. In about a year you get 1.5xBW squat, and you are well on your way to getting big at that point. Once they can do 1.5xBW and exhausted linear progression, then let them do whatever they want.

And to answer your question, ofcourse it's not all going to be muscle, but my bodyfat % right now and before starting strength are about within 1% of eachother, I'd hazard about 13%.