In other words, UN is now questioning official 9/11 claim

Drdeee

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The Telegraph - UN human rights official claims 9/11 was US plot - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-rights-official-claims-911-was-US-plot.html

I'm shocked! How can they say this, don't they have respect to 9/11 victims and families? I think it's as preposterous as demolition engineers saying it looked like demolition. What a bunch of cooks, we all saw the planes hit the towers, then towers burned, and then they fell to the ground. All that nonsense about thermite particles found in the dust is crap, Al Qaeda couldn't have wired the buildings like that, it would have taken months of preparation and government level clearances to carry something of that magnitude out. And I highly doubt our government would do something like this to their own people, after all they too got hit on 9/11, pentagon had a nice round hole in it and **** chenney was helping put out the fire!
 

Quiksilver

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In all fairness to those who question the official story, there are many unanswered questions and many strange happenings.

Many of the 9/11 Commissioners don't even believe what they penned as their official story.

Why? Because the Pentagon, the White House, other federal agencies denied the commissioners access to a lot of material crucial to the investigation.

Drdeee said:
What a bunch of cooks, we all saw the planes hit the towers, then towers burned, and then they fell to the ground.
Building 7.

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What really happened that day? I don't know, but I don't believe half the conspiracies I read about and I certainly don't believe the 9/11 Commission.

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I always question the knowledge of someone such as yourself who claim to know everything about a certain event.

I always question the wisdom of someone such as yourself who claim that your government would not do that to you.

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Over two hundred and sixty million (260,000,000) people in the last century have been the victim of democide.

Considering 1.2 million people worldwide died in auto accidents in 2004, at those rates we extrapolate that 120,000,000 million people have died in the last century from auto accidents (its a very rough estimate).

Therefore we can conclude that worldwide from 1900 to 2000, you were twice as likely to be murdered by your government than to die in an auto accident.

Excuse me if I do not trust government. I tolerate it out of necessity to keep criminals out of my way, but to go so far as to say I trust it is ludicrous.

I do not believe your federal government intentionally attacked the WTC as a pretext to gain a foothold in the Middle East to secure oil reserve safety (without oil from middle east, millions in your nation would die) in a politically volatile region, however I still have questions regarding the happenings of that day. As would any rational individual who has sworn allegiance to the truth and who seeks facts instead of fiction.

To state "the case is closed", when in reality there are many unanswered questions, is merely to state "my mind is closed".
 

Noodles

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Drdeee said:
I'm shocked! How can they say this, don't they have respect to 9/11 victims and families? I think it's as preposterous as demolition engineers saying it looked like demolition. What a bunch of cooks, we all saw the planes hit the towers, then towers burned, and then they fell to the ground. All that nonsense about thermite particles found in the dust is crap, Al Qaeda couldn't have wired the buildings like that, it would have taken months of preparation and government level clearances to carry something of that magnitude out. And I highly doubt our government would do something like this to their own people, after all they too got hit on 9/11, pentagon had a nice round hole in it and **** chenney was helping put out the fire!
They haven't said anything. Given that it also details:
Ban Ki-Moon, the UN Secretary-General, described the comments as "preposterous" and "an affront to the memory of the more than 3,000 people who died in the attack."
I think we're talking about one individual (Professor Richard Falk) who is very much mistaken and trying to whip up a storm.

I've got experience with explosives, and I'm not going to go into how impossible it would have been to fake it as a controlled explosion, timed with the planes impacts...not once, but twice, whilst putting the explosives in a fundamentally terrible place to bring the buildings down.

What I always find disappointing though is that we never went after the actually perpetrators of this attack. Afghanistan and Iraq had nothing to do with AQ. UBL was largely hiding in the FATA areas of Pakistan, and AQ themselves (the main cell) were effectively Saudi. Which is why AQ has been able to spread to Iraqi (AQI), and now northern Africa - Somalia being prime real estate. We didn't deal with the problem.
 

Drdeee

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Quiksilver said:
To state "the case is closed", when in reality there are many unanswered questions, is merely to state "my mind is closed".

There exists a box of possible, outside that box things are outrageous. Stepping outside means being labeled outrageous, nuts, insane. It's like crabs in a bucket analogy, put one inside a bucket and it will crawl out, freeing itself, but you put two or more crabs into the same bucket and they will never get out, other crabs will just undermine one's efforts. The society is similarly in a bucket, or a box more precisely, everything within this box is possible and probable, everything outside is for lack of better word insane.

Anyone can thus get away with almost anything if they operate outside the box.

Our inability to understand the WHY's of 9/11 is our inability to think outside of the box.

To be able to think freely, outside the chains of thought and self imposed societal constrains is true freedom. Some call it thought crime. I call it freedom.

Oh how the chained down hate free individuals, they despise us, they ridicule us. Oh you see the answer is not hate, it's love, because anyone can be free. :flowers:



V
WE SHALL BE VICTORIOUS
 

DJ Logic

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FWIW the presence of explosive material has been confirmed in the debris. A Danish scientist published a paper that was peer-reviewed by the scientific community for over a year before it went public.

The consensus is that NANO-THERMITE was indeed found from several samples of debris. This should not be confused with plain thermite, which debunkers point out could be mistaken for rust. It is a sophisticated type of explosive that can only be engineered in a lab. Here is the lead scientist on Danish television talking about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o

Countless eyewitnesses/survivors reported various explosions, both directly before impact and before the collapse. In fact you can hear the explosions for yourself (@ 4:30)

WTC Building 7 is by far the biggest smoking gun. Bombs were found in that building by police and firemen, listen to them warn people that the building is gonna explode:

The entire street in front of building 7 was NUKED before it even fell. Please somebody explain to me how jet fuel from a block away could do this.

The only witness to the explosions in this building died mysteriously after appearing in several films to tell his story:

Why have I done so much research on this? My dad used to rent a flat on Warren Street and we watched the first tower fall. Right before that happened, there was a MASSIVE explosion which shook our building. I will never forget it.

Plus I just don't get how anyone can buy the official story when its obvious those towers exploded to dust in mid air before hitting the ground. Over a thousand architects and engineers also know a controlled demolition when they see one.

Drdeee said:
don't they have respect to 9/11 victims and families?
This is a common argument and at face value it seems to make sense, until you realize that the most vocal people in the 911 truth movement ARE the families of the victims. These are people who have done their own in-depth research and are not satisfied with the official story.

They have every right to be upset too. It's pretty fuct up when you realize that 80 million dollars were spent investigating Bill Clinton's affair with Ms. Lewinsky, and only 10 million were granted for the official 911 investigation. Talk about screwed up priorities.

Al Qaeda couldn't have wired the buildings like that
Well at least we agree on something

it would have taken months of preparation and government level clearances to carry something of that magnitude out.
Precisely.

FWIW, with nanothermite you don't need as much preparation; since you can literally paint it right on the beams the setup is minimal. You also don't need massive quantities of the stuff; it was designed for quickly taking down enemy buildings in a war situation. Just paint away then set up bombs in strategic places and the chain reaction takes care of itself.

As for government clearance, it should raise more than a few eyebrows to know that Marvin Bush (George's little bro) was in charge of security at WTC, and there were several unprecedented power-downs in the weeks leading to the attack. All surveillance was turned off and employees report seeing a LOT of unfamiliar faces of maintenance workers going in and out.

For 9 months leading up to 911, renovations were done on the elevator shafts. Couple this with the fact that a routine sweep by bomb-sniffing dogs was called off 5 days before 911 and you realize how much this whole thing stinks.

And I highly doubt our government would do something like this to their own people, after all they too got hit on 9/11, pentagon had a nice round hole in it and **** chenney was helping put out the fire!
The very day before this happened, Rumsfield came out to the press and said that there was a serious case of fraud in the military - 2.3 trillion dollars went "missing"

Guess where all of the paperwork/evidence for this case was sitting. Yup, precisely in the spot that got hit by the plane. Pretty convenient if you ask me.

Now if you want to really connect all the dots as to who did this and why, peep this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW23PuBKiA0

Disclaimer: I can't vouch for everything he says, but the good chunk of it I did check turned out to be legit. Don't take my word for it though. I encourage you to dig around and reach your own conclusions.

If you want to debunk any of this I welcome it. But please use links to your sources and provide valid, scientific arguments instead of your own layman conclusions of what you think happened.

Whether you think 911 was an inside job, there is no denying that the official story leaves much to be desired, and the families of the victims deserve better.
 

spider_007

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It's not UN Its one guy that works for the UN. And it's nothing oficial, it's just his belifs he posted on a blog.

You make it sound oficial.
 

Drdeee

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Heh, it's official enough. U.S. demanding sacking of the guy.

AFP - US fury over UN expert's 9/11 'cover-up' claims - http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gWCTbMwqBJ_I-srVglLLJsX1hoTg


Man, I guess they are going to have to do another investigation. Let's go for it, after all they still have the debris from 9/11, they could not destroy the evidence with so much public outrage. Let's go for another investigation and prove to the world that we did not do it to our selves. What do we have to loose?
 

ChalengeGuyFan

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I disagree with your whole post, but this seems the most preposterous part:
Drdeee said:
How can they say this, don't they have respect to 9/11 victims and families?
What's the reasoning behind this question?
 

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Drdeee said:
Let's go for another investigation and prove to the world that we did not do it to our selves. What do we have to loose?
No one else but people in your country thinks you did it to yourself.

Answer me this: two planes had to hit the Twin Towers, and had to be blamed on AQ. If this was some kind of inside job by shadowy forces in the US government, why bother with explosives of any kind?

I mean...you've managed to fly two planes into the Twin Towers. You've already faked the attack. You're going to have the green light to go after anyone. Why would you need to bring the buildings down? It's going to cost you a fortune for no benefit.

It's feasible that the US were bankrolling UBL and AQ and suggested the attack. However...is it likely. No. It's not even a little bit likely.

Seriously...look at how we both went after Saddam - flimsy evidence and a made up story. But apparently 9/11 was the most perfect plan ever - the Ocean's 11 of the conspiracy world. Really...?
 

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Noodles said:
No one else but people in your country thinks you did it to yourself.

Well that claim is false. 90% of Germans do not believe our official 9/11 story. I've been to Russia recently, they question 9/11 heavily.

I think it's only fair we do another investigation. I mean, we still have the debris from 9/11, I heard it's been laying in some wear house. We can do another investigation! It's easy. Let's do it and prove to the world that we are innocent. Let's help America restore its world image!
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

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I like how they cleaned up ground zero so quickly and then did nothing for ages.

Trying to remove the evidence I see.
 

DJ Logic

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@Allegory, that cleanup was HIGHLY suspect: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

@Drdeee, I like your attitude even if we disagree. At least you are open to reviewing the facts instead of blindly accepting what has been dictated to you. Reps my man.

And you are correct, there is some leftover scrap metal which is kept under lock and key near JFK airport. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_utQlgltSG.../3jAEK0V33Zo/s640/PA-SeeksWTCSteelBeams-5.jpg To date no one has tried to test these beams for explosives. It would be relatively easy to test and shut people up.

Noodles said:
No one else but people in your country thinks you did it to yourself.
As Drdeee pointed out this is completely false. Look at the first video link I posted: News programs in other countries are reporting that 911 was an inside job. Reading comprehension FTW :)

Answer me this: two planes had to hit the Twin Towers, and had to be blamed on AQ. If this was some kind of inside job by shadowy forces in the US government, why bother with explosives of any kind?
Because plane impacts may not have been enough to bring them down. The architect of WTC himself was very surprised by the turn of events as he designed both towers to withstand a head-on impact of a commercial jetliner.

As for the motive...

I mean...you've managed to fly two planes into the Twin Towers. You've already faked the attack. You're going to have the green light to go after anyone. Why would you need to bring the buildings down? It's going to cost you a fortune for no benefit.
The WTC was due for billions of dollars in repairs in order to bring it up to code (removal of asbestos, etc). The owner was looking at a huge loss until the day of the attacks - an event that would earn him nearly $5 billion of insurance cash. I'm not saying he was in on it because I honestly do not know, but I am addressing the issue of motives/profitability.

Of particular importance is BUILDING #7, home to Security & Exchange Commissions thousands of documents/evidence of financial fraud. Enron's paper trail was in there along with SEC filings for pending suits against some of the world's biggest corporations (along with internal investigations of embezzlement within the US military amounting to trillions of dollars..not billions, TRILLIONS) Is that incentive enough for you?

That building was not touched by a plane, yet fell at freefall speeds into its own footprint. Meanwhile buildings 5 & 6 were way closer to ground zero and sustained MUCH more direct damage yet managed to stay upright. Check out building 5:

http://www.customs.gov/ImageCache/c...c/highresimage/wtc_5f12_2ejpg/v1/wtc_5f12.jpg

Now look at building 7. Definitely some fire but not nearly as much structural damage:

http://www.customs.gov/ImageCache/c...c/highresimage/wtc_5f12_2ejpg/v1/wtc_5f12.jpg

WTC 7 is THE key behind debunking the official story. In fact it is not even mentioned in NIST's "comprehensive" report. Our tax dollars hard at work there.

Seriously...look at how we both went after Saddam - flimsy evidence and a made up story. But apparently 9/11 was the most perfect plan ever - the Ocean's 11 of the conspiracy world. Really...?
What are you talking about? Going after Saddam with flimsy evidence was a PERFECT plan. We now have a permanent military installation there overseeing some of the richest oil reserves in the world. We got even "luckier" with Afghanistan where that massive oil pipeline is being constructed, with the added bonus world's largest supply of opium - valued at $65+ billion (whose production has only increased since the war started)

I could go on but it's obvious you don't like to read much on this subject so I will just challenge you to at least watch this video in it's entirety. (parts 1 & 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW23PuBKiA0

It covers a lot of ground in very little time and shows that no matter how you slice it, the official story is a f-cking joke. We can argue about who is responsible and why, but the fact remains we've been sold one hell of a lie, and it's 100% worth having an independent investigation as to what happened so the real criminals can be brought to justice.
 

Noodles

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Drdeee said:
Well that claim is false. 90% of Germans do not believe our official 9/11 story. I've been to Russia recently, they question 9/11 heavily.

I think it's only fair we do another investigation. I mean, we still have the debris from 9/11, I heard it's been laying in some wear house. We can do another investigation! It's easy. Let's do it and prove to the world that we are innocent. Let's help America restore its world image!
The poll was conducted for a magazine called World of Miracles. I would suggest your sampling group is slightly skewed - or at least has an agenda. A quick look on Google find this in 2008 - http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/535.php. Admittedly 23% of German's think it was an inside job...but then they've had real reason to not trust governments...

So you went to Russia and they question it heavily?
Kak skazat' paranoik po-russki?

Right...that's the end of my input in this thread.
 

Noodles

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DJ Logic said:
What are you talking about? Going after Saddam with flimsy evidence was a PERFECT plan. We now have a permanent military installation there overseeing some of the richest oil reserves in the world. We got even "luckier" with Afghanistan where that massive oil pipeline is being constructed, with the added bonus world's largest supply of opium - valued at $65+ billion (whose production has only increased since the war started)

I could go on but it's obvious you don't like to read much on this subject so I will just challenge you to at least watch this video in it's entirety. (parts 1 & 2)
I wouldn't call it a military installation anymore. The Pizza Hut and Burger King is nice though.

I've spent almost eight years of my life fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan in the Royal Marines. I'm a fluent Mesopotamian Arabic speaker since I was 22, and am conversational in Urdu and Farsi.

But you're right - why would I read up on the subject. What do I know?
 

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Someday I should write a long post about historical revisionism.

9/11 deniers are heretics. Holocaust deniers are heretics. Engaging in herectical revisionist history does not equate with correctness.
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

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AAAgent

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My thoughts are that the gov't did not actually plan it but knew it was happening and assumed it beneficial to let 9/11 actually happen than to prevent it but i try not to dwell on certain things because to realize your entire life is merely being manipulated by a larger entity and not knowing whether things are real of false is severely demoralizing.

If you wanted to make a change you'd be targeted, labeled and be on the run for the rest of your life. Before I can even think about changing the world and take care of it, i need to be able to take care of myself first.
 

Rogue

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AAAgent said:
My thoughts are that the gov't did not actually plan it but knew it was happening and assumed it beneficial to let 9/11 actually happen than to prevent it...
And of the scores of equally dramatic plots in the 1990's which were foiled? Or were those all smoke screens?
 

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Rogue said:
Someday I should write a long post about historical revisionism.

9/11 deniers are heretics. Holocaust deniers are heretics. Engaging in herectical revisionist history does not equate with correctness.
So what you're saying is, always believe the official story. If the story says that the Pentagon was hit by an airplane on 9/11, despite the evidence to the contrary by experts, and fairly reliable eye witnesses (like firefighters) we should believe it.

I don't know what this has to do with the holocaust deniers. They're a fairly new group from what I see, well after the original events took place.
 

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