Imus fired over derogatory comments...

Wyldfire

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Deus ex Pianoforte said:
For the record, it's a mistake to lump the 95% of posters here that don't want you here into the same group of people that flames you. I don't want you posting here for a variety of obvious reasons, and have never been uncivil towards you (as far as I remember). It's not a personal issue, I just believe that as a woman on a men's site you have no place here. All the "advice" you give is counter to what we need to be hearing, and confuses newcomers, especially those that haven't found out you're a woman yet. I also agree mostly with thick & creamy has been telling you, although I wouldn't have been as rude and crude about it as he has.
If the general consensus was that my advice is crap then why do I have several tips in the DJ Bible?

In MOST cases it is true that guys don't get reliable advice from women. The reason for that is that most women won't tell you the truth because they don't want to say anything that might offend anyone or make them look less than sweet. That does not and has never applied to me. I don't care whether I offend or upset anyone...so you get the truth from me...which is why there are always a few who flame me...they don't handle the cold, hard truth very well.

When I first came here in 2001 I went through this very thing...and my posts, tips and advice proved to be very helpful to many of those old timers. I was accepted fully by the other members and was highly respected. With each influx of new members this same stupid crap starts all over again. It gets really old.

I am and have always been a valuable commodity to this site. I think and communicate like a man...and am a highly logical person. I also have a very clear understanding of why women behave certain ways and the hidden meanings behind those behaviors. I understand what women really need and want in a relationship and can actually communicate it in terms that men can understand and relate to. On top of that, I have studied Human Behavior and Psychology for over 25 years. I have lived and experienced many, many things and am a wealth of wisdom and knowledge. I know how to successfully lead a relationship in a way that can elicit virtually any response from the other person that I want. I pick up on nuances and small details that are very significant and posted subconsciously that most people here don't even notice.

The things I post may not always be easy to hear, might be offensive or upsetting to some...but the advice I give is ALWAYS carefully thought out, usually specific and offers real solutions to individual problems. My advice is also always geared towards trying to teach you guys communication, conflict resolution and relationship management skills that you can apply to not just the problem at hand, but future problems as well.

I can't even count the number of PMs I have gotten thanking me for advice I posted that guys on here have implemented successfully or for something valuable they learned from something I posted. They PM me instead of posting because if they post publicly a few newbies trying to posture against other guys here will call them "AFC" and pitch a fit.

You may not value my input, but there are a lot more people here who DO want me here than there are who don't.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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thickandcreamy said:
Whatever. You've got 10,000 posts on sosuave. ..
:( Hey, guy who's closer to 10k feelin left out here!!! :p
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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spider_007 said:
Oh Opie and Anthonie are ripping on Al Sharpten this morning.....oh yea....they are diging up avery single bad thing he said on tape....
I find it interesting that they had to "dig up" the things he's said in the past. It's not as if this guy has never said things like this. Maybe if it were really such a huge issue, someone would have brought this up many, many, many years ago when he first started.
 

ricorico

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Sharpton had some pretty bad things to say about the DUke L Team. He of all people should understand innocent till guilty.

But in 1998, Al Sharpon was sued along with his cohorts for defamation of charecter of Steve Pagonis.He was found guilty. His partner in this whole defamation suit Alton Maddox was disbarred. They were guilty of perpetrating a hoax. It seems Sharpton can say stuff about folks that will ruin lives. But that's ok.

Jesse Jackson also refered to NY as Himeytown. Completely lied and denied it until someone brought out a tape and he finally admitted it. Say what you will.but those 2 are pretty racist.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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ricorico said:
Sharpton had some pretty bad things to say about the DUke L Team. He of all people should understand innocent till guilty.

But in 1998, Al Sharpon was sued along with his cohorts for defamation of charecter of Steve Pagonis.He was found guilty. His partner in this whole defamation suit Alton Maddox was disbarred. They were guilty of perpetrating a hoax. It seems Sharpton can say stuff about folks that will ruin lives. But that's ok.

Jesse Jackson also refered to NY as Himeytown. Completely lied and denied it until someone brought out a tape and he finally admitted it. Say what you will.but those 2 are pretty racist.
Someone should post a montage of videos of various prominent people saying disparaging things on tape. That may one of the few things to perhaps make people consider the broader picture.
 

spider_007

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
I find it interesting that they had to "dig up" the things he's said in the past. It's not as if this guy has never said things like this. Maybe if it were really such a huge issue, someone would have brought this up many, many, many years ago when he first started.
he got away with it, because most white people feel as if they they owe it to him, and other black people to get away with things like that.....unfotionatly that led to a double standard.

most americans are so afraid of being called a racist.....it's why the sponcers pulled out so quick, and the dude got fired.....
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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spider_007 said:
he got away with it, because most white people feel as if they they owe it to him, and other black people to get away with things like that.....unfotionatly that led to a double standard.

most americans are so afraid of being called a racist.....it's why the sponcers pulled out so quick, and the dude got fired.....
Must not have been an issue back then since the bills were getting paid. However, he got fired after advertisers started dropping their sponsorship of the show dropping it's income value I'd guess. Hmmmm, maybe there was a correlation?

Either way, the word is that another network is already negotiating with the guy. I can't fault them since there seems to be a market for his type of show.
 

ricorico

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I guess Sharpton is allowed to ruin lives and that's ok. But he goes nuts for someone saying an insult. That is the height of his hypocricy. Yo this day he has not apologized to Pagonis even though he ruined his life along with many others by defaming his charecter with absolutely NO EVIDENCE!!!!

The Eighties Club
The Politics and Pop Culture of the 1980s
Table of Contents Material Things
29. The Tawana Brawley Hoax

Copyright 2000 Jason Manning All Rights Reserved

Tawana Brawley

On November 28, 1987 Joyce Lloray happened to look out of her apartment's sliding glass door in time to see a black girl climb into a big green plastic garbage bag and then lay still on the cold, muddy ground. Mrs. Lloray called the Duchess County Sheriff's Department, setting into motion a chain of bizarre and tragic events that made the quiet little town of Wappingers Falls, New York -- population 5,000 -- the focus of national attention.

The girl in the trash bag on the grounds of the Pavillion Condominiums was 15-year-old Tawana Brawley. Four days earlier she had played hooky from school in order to visit a former boyfriend, Todd Buxton, who was incarcerated at the Orange County Jail in nearby Newburgh. That evening Tawana took a bus to the town of Wappingers, where she had lived with her mother in Apartment 19A at the Pavillion Condominiums prior to their moving to Wappingers Falls. According to Tawana, she was abducted by several white men shortly after she got off the bus; the men, one of whom wore a badge, took her to a wooded area and sexually abused her over a period of several days.

When police and paramedics arrived at the Pavillion Condominiums in response to Joyce Lloray's call, they found Tawana's clothes torn, cut and partially burned. Her body and clothing were smeared with feces, and on her chest and torso the words "KKK," "******" and "*****" had been written with what appeared to be charcoal. Since it seemed that Tawana's civil rights had been violated, the FBI was called in. A rape kit was administered at St. Francis Hospital and sent under seal to an FBI lab for analysis. Interviewed at the hospital by a black officer from the Poughkeepsie Police Department, Tawana claimed she had been repeatedly raped by a group of white men but could provide no names or descriptions of her assailants. She later told others that there had been no rape, only other kinds of sexual abuse. Forensic tests found no evidence that a sexual assault of any kind had occurred. Nor was there any evidence of exposure to elements, which would be expected in a victim held for several days in the woods at a time when the temperature dropped below freezing at night.

There were other discrepancies in Tawana's story. She was seen entering the empty apartment at Pavillion where she had once lived on the morning after the alleged abduction. Other witnesses claimed to have seen her at parties in a nearby town during the period when she was "missing." She had no bruises, contusions, scratches or other injuries except for a small bruise behind the left ear, which was determined to be several days old. Her mother, Glenda Brawley, was spotted at the apartment complex shortly before Tawana was seen getting into the garbage bag; the mother waited until that same afternoon to report Tawana's "disappearance" to the police. The investigation turned up evidence to indicate that the damage done to Tawana's clothing had occurred in the apartment. According to the grand jury report, all of "the items and instrumentalities necessary to create the condition in which Tawana Brawley appeared on Saturday, November 28, were present inside of or in the immediate vicinity of Apartment 19A." The feces had come from a neighbor's dog.

The Tawana Brawley case was quickly seized upon by a trio of black activists who viewed it as a means by which to demonstrate that the police and judicial system were racist and corrupt. Attorney Alton H. Maddox had been beaten by a white mob as a teenager in Newnan, Georgia; confrontational and virulently anti-white, Maddox seemed at times less interested in justice than in the potential for conflict that high profile cases like Tawana Brawley's provided. C. Vernon Mason, another New York attorney, also used cases to drum up publicity and address wider issues. Al Sharpton was a flamboyant Pentecostal preacher who spent $2,000 a year for hair care at Brooklyn's Prima Donna Beauty Salon; his hunger for celebrity caused some to question both his motives and methods. Maddox, Mason and Sharpton had joined forces before, in the Howard Beach case a year earlier. Several black men had been accosted by a white mob and one of them, Michael Griffith, was chased out onto a highway where he was struck by a vehicle and killed. In previous cases, Maddox and Mason had used the tactic of non-cooperation, refusing to let their clients testify in an effort to facilitate a "miscarriage of justice" in which the perpetrator(s) would get off. In this way they could heighten the outrage of the black community and claim the result proved that the judicial system discriminated against blacks.

The trio muzzled Tawana Brawley and claimed everyone from the local police to New York Governor Mario Cuomo was engaged in a cover-up. The Brawley camp eventually accused Harry Crist, Jr., a part-time police officer, after Crist committed suicide on December 2, and Steven A. Pagones, a Duchess County district attorney, of participating in the alleged abduction and rape. Further investigation revealed that Crist had killed himself for reasons unconnected with the Brawley case, while Pagones' testimony convinced the Poughkeepsie grand jury that he was not involved in any wrongdoing. Undeterred, Maddox, Mason and Sharpton staged numerous media events, from news conferences and rallies to appearances on television shows like Phil Donahue and The Morton Downey, Jr. Show to keep national attention focused on the case.

As time went on, the public grew increasingly skeptical of Tawana Brawley's charges and the ill-advised tactics of her handlers. When Tawana's mother was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury and failed to do so, a warrant for her arrest was issued; Maddox, Mason and Sharpton took her to the Ebenezer Baptist Church in New York City and organized a rally, hoping (in vain) that the authorities would force their way into the church and seize her. Two of Sharpton's associates quit, claiming the reverend had known all along that the case was a hoax. Other black leaders criticized Brawley's advisers -- Ray Innes of the Congress of Racial Equality and attorney Conrad Lynn among them. They feared the hoax and the antics of publicity hounds like Sharpton would prove detrimental to the cause of racial equality.

After seven months of examining police and medical records and listening to the testimony of over one hundred witnesses, the grand jury determined that Tawana's charges were false and that her condition when found had been self-inflicted. The question remained: Why had she lied? One hypothesis was that since Tawana had already been grounded on the day she skipped school to visit her ex-boyfriend, she had made up the story of her abduction in order to avoid further punishment.


The Aftermath

The Brawley case resurfaced a decade later when Steven Pagones filed a defamation suit against Maddox, Mason and Sharpton; he had already won a default judgment against Tawana in 1991. By 1997, Tawana had moved to Washington and changed her name to Maryam Muhammad. She returned to New York to speak before a rally at Brooklyn's Bethany Baptist Church in support of her advisers, insisting that she had told the truth about the abduction. The court found otherwise. Her advisers were ordered to pay Pagones $345,000 while Tawana had to pay $185,000. "Tawana Brawley appears caught up in her own fiction," said New York State Supreme Court Justice S. Barrett Hickman. Unfortunately, the rest of the country had to be caught up in it, too.



REFERENCES

Newsweek, 14 March 1988, 10 October 1988

Time, 28 March 1988, 20 June 1988, 4 July 1988

"Tawana Brawley Sticks to Story"
Associated Press, 3 December 1997

"Sharpton Remains Feisty in Face of Pointed Questioning"
Michael Hill, Associated Press, 10 February 1998

"Woman Hit With Damages in Suit"
Associated Press, 10 October 1998

Outrage: The Story Behind the Tawana Brawley Hoax
Robert D. McFadden et al (New York: Bantam Books, 1990)

Report of the Grand Jury Concerning the Tawana Brawley Investigation
(www.courttv.com/legaldocs/newsmakers/tawana/part1.html)
 

Gangster Of Love

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PlasticSurgeon said:
The media is extremely liberal. If you watch CNN, all you see is anti-Bush stories and anti-racism stories. CNN had a field day with this Imus thing. I don't know why but I don't even think "nappy haired hos" is even a racist statement. I mean, their hair is nappy isn't it?


No one really has his back either which is Very messed up. Once this broke loose no one would touch him with a ten foot pole.

Most people are just joining the Imus hating bandwagon because its the politically correct thing to do.

I enjoyed his show, he's not really hateful, he's just old and a bit angry. Very funny at times though.
You see a lot of anti-Bush stories because lets face it, his administration has been a complete failure. No two ways about it. Lets call a spade a spade.

As far as Imus, I'm sure there would be enough people who would tune him in because they actually enjoy listening to him. Good for him. The thing is that he has been a prik for years, specially to minorities, off the air, and he actually gets fired for what seems insignificant. Poetic justice though. Apparently Mr. Imus is not a good guy, in real life. You know, the image he portrayed for years, the tough looking, angry hillbilly with a cowboy hat? That seems to be the real Imus, and that didn't help him as he went on his apology tour.

I am even more sicken to see Sharpton and Jesse Jackson get press for this. They sure rose to get their attention and serve their own agenda. That is pretty despicable. Imus was fired because he no longer is a force on radio, no two ways about that. Rush Limbaugh made racist comments, and got fired, yet he still has a carreer, because people still support him. He still makes a lot of money for his company. The same cannot be said of Imus.
 

Gangster Of Love

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Wyldfire said:
You know what I found way more offensive and disturbing than this...when Bill O'reilly said that maybe Shawn Hornbeck liked being held hostage by the pedophile who kidnapped him and held him for over 4 years. If anyone should have been fired it should have been him. And all the personal attacks on that 17 year old kid, Sanjaya, on American Idol...just as ugly and hateful.

Why this comment and why Imus as the scapegoat? That's what I'm really wondering about...
Now I really don't agree with Wyldfire much, but I agree here, those were not nice comments, yet, it was an overreaction, specially when for years, Imus has said nasty things.

Why Imus as the scapegoat? Because he no longer is a player on radio and never was a player on tv. Good chance to get rid of him. Why would they stick up for him. I hear CBS radio is trying to sell their stations and this (the controversy) would not go well with prospective buyers.
 

Gangster Of Love

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mahon83050 said:
It is a shame he got fired.

Al Sharpton is the biggest bigot of them all and a trouble maker. He HATES white people and doesn't care about the facts. He obviously invited Imus on his radio show after the incident to try and set him up even more.

If Imus has to be censored, what about Chapelle, Chris Rock and others who make derogatory comments about whites.
Sure, except that those are doing racial comedy, it all depends on context. Imus has positioned himself as a "serious" show where "respected" "descent" people go on. Politicians, presidential candidates etc. would go on his show. There are a bunch of other comedians, who are not black, who pull it off because they use racial humor in a funny, and satirical way, as in making fun of some of the stereotypes. What this man said, was just a statement, and it sounded like something he says when the mics are off. Plus, the key here, IT WASN'T FUNNY!

He wasn't doing racial comedy, he made a racial statement to try to be funny. And that cowboy hat doesn't really help his cause.

Sharpton is the biggest clown of all. So is Jesse Jackson, wich is the main thing I hate about this whole situation.
 

thickandcreamy

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His firing is an economic move, plain and simple. And NYC politics has always been entertaining, and Al Sharpton one of the finest hustlers on the scene. Why would anyone take Al Sharpton or Don Imus seriously anyway? Both are masters of manipulation and their antics are thus immensely entertaining. Anyone who looks to Sharpton or Imus for political consistency, much less moral insight or political leadership, is a fool.

Gangster Of Love said:
Why Imus as the scapegoat? Because he no longer is a player on radio and never was a player on tv. Good chance to get rid of him. Why would they stick up for him. I hear CBS radio is trying to sell their stations and this (the controversy) would not go well with prospective buyers.
 

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Ricky

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I just don't understand all this hatred from peace loving liberals. Normally they reserve that type of hatred for fetuses in the womb as they extract them in 8 month late term abortions while simultaneously attending peace rallies on Washington and complaining when their kids have to disect frogs in biology class.
 

Nighthawk

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Conservatives have abortions too, they just keep quiet about it.
 

thickandcreamy

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Don Imus got fired because he's not good looking or muscular enough. There, I said it. Now ban this thread. lol. Actually Imus is as ugly as monkeybutt.
 

itishe

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Imus is a **** head, plain and simple. I've read reports that he treats anyone below him as absolute dirt... but that doesn't mean he should be fired for these comments.
 
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