taiyuu_otoko
Master Don Juan
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Immersion: Learning a Foreign Language by Yourself
- Thread starter Deep Dish
- Start date
At the beginning of the year, I bought a frequency dictionary with the 5,000 most common words. I had been studying from a list of 600 most common words and had gotten through about 500 words before I upgraded to the frequency dictionary. I estimate that if about half of the 500 words from the list were in the first 500 words of the frequency dictionary, that would be 200 words (rounding down). I'm now 800 words into the dictionary, so 800 + 200 words would be a grand total of 1,000 words, which would be the completion of level A2.
My listening comprehension is ramping up. The range of material which I find to be comprehensible input is greatly expanding. I can, more than ever, follow along with the gist of conversation without subtitles.
I strive for 2-3 hours of French exposure every day, which I achieve almost every day. I estimate that I've clocked 1,800 hours over the past two years.
There is an issue which I want to bring up and that is when is the right time to start speaking?
There are two general approaches: speaking early, or waiting until you feel comfortable enough.
Speaking early is a very popular approach, especially for people who are highly sociable, but it comes at the expense of not understanding what people say in reply to you. You can memorize phrases, which can be good for taking a vacation, but it's meaningless conversation. You will plateau earlier, because you will inevitably be faced with the need for spending a lot more time on input (reading and listening).
On the other hand, you can wait until you feel you've absorbed enough of the language through input, and the only downside is you can wait too long. Once you do start speaking, there will be a transitionary period, because you will need to talk a lot to get good at it. Olly Richards, who personally prefers speaking early, made a video explaining the benefits of waiting:
As for myself, I've been waiting for listening comprehension to emerge, which is getting there.
My listening comprehension is ramping up. The range of material which I find to be comprehensible input is greatly expanding. I can, more than ever, follow along with the gist of conversation without subtitles.
I strive for 2-3 hours of French exposure every day, which I achieve almost every day. I estimate that I've clocked 1,800 hours over the past two years.
There is an issue which I want to bring up and that is when is the right time to start speaking?
There are two general approaches: speaking early, or waiting until you feel comfortable enough.
Speaking early is a very popular approach, especially for people who are highly sociable, but it comes at the expense of not understanding what people say in reply to you. You can memorize phrases, which can be good for taking a vacation, but it's meaningless conversation. You will plateau earlier, because you will inevitably be faced with the need for spending a lot more time on input (reading and listening).
On the other hand, you can wait until you feel you've absorbed enough of the language through input, and the only downside is you can wait too long. Once you do start speaking, there will be a transitionary period, because you will need to talk a lot to get good at it. Olly Richards, who personally prefers speaking early, made a video explaining the benefits of waiting:
As for myself, I've been waiting for listening comprehension to emerge, which is getting there.
It's better to buy a paper dictionary than download a PDF or eBook. Digital books are more convenient but science studies show you remember more with physical books. Apps have distractions and I would think there's probably something about the tactile experience of books. You have a better chance of remembering words by writing it down.
Deep State
Don Juan
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Modern internet dictionaries and phrasebooks are amazing. They will usually have audio as well where you can hear the word or phrase pronounced by a native speaker. Books (ebook or physical) have their place, but I think they are more useful for unfamiliar character sets (Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, etc)
I'd recommend watching a catchy song like this:
Elli et Jacno - Main Dans La Main
While following along with the lyrics:
Main Dans La Main
Main dans la main, on se promène Les gens se moquent, car ça les gêne: C'est évident que toi tu m'aimes Tous ces gens, moi je m'en fous Viens...
paroles2chansons.lemonde.fr
Look up every word and phrase until it starts to make sense.
Gamisch
Master Don Juan
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Managed to learn Polish( Terrible language to learn). There was money to be made and my colleagues only spoke Po Polsku. I had to do it and did it. On a very basic level obviously but I am a Caribbean guy so they literally lose their ****, Polish friends video call me to say shyt ect haha. Like I am anattraction. Also know alotta slang, deep Polish. Real fun.
I dont know if anyone already said:
- cartoons for kids (0-5)help tremendously .
- a local who speaks fluently to spar with
- listen to songs and sing/rap along
- money as motivation, but that's tough one
I dont know if anyone already said:
- cartoons for kids (0-5)help tremendously .
- a local who speaks fluently to spar with
- listen to songs and sing/rap along
- money as motivation, but that's tough one
Last edited:
I'm back with two more suggestions.
Learning while you're sleeping
It's possible to learn a language while you're sleeping. Language learning can be a 24 hour endeavour, clocking in more hours than a child. Your subconscious is still listening when you're sleeping and language acquisition happens subsconsciouly. Science studies show it strengthens intuitive associations between words. That said, whether it would be a good idea for you depends on the quality of sleep that you get.
ChatGPT
ChatGPT is a great tool to help with learning a language. It's good at explaining the contextual differences between words and can explain grammar, and correct your grammar. It can generate stories in your target language about almost anything you want. It can create dialogues of different situations like going through customs, hailing a taxi cab, checking into a hotel, or eating in a restaurant, which can be helpful in training for a vacation. I found mixed results with giving me a list of words, as you need to be precise about wanting obscure words or words of a specific context like food, otherwise it'll just give you basic beginner words.
@Gamisch
Your suggestion about listening to songs and rapping along is especially helpful because science studies show that music improves your memory of words.
Learning while you're sleeping
It's possible to learn a language while you're sleeping. Language learning can be a 24 hour endeavour, clocking in more hours than a child. Your subconscious is still listening when you're sleeping and language acquisition happens subsconsciouly. Science studies show it strengthens intuitive associations between words. That said, whether it would be a good idea for you depends on the quality of sleep that you get.
ChatGPT
ChatGPT is a great tool to help with learning a language. It's good at explaining the contextual differences between words and can explain grammar, and correct your grammar. It can generate stories in your target language about almost anything you want. It can create dialogues of different situations like going through customs, hailing a taxi cab, checking into a hotel, or eating in a restaurant, which can be helpful in training for a vacation. I found mixed results with giving me a list of words, as you need to be precise about wanting obscure words or words of a specific context like food, otherwise it'll just give you basic beginner words.
@Gamisch
Your suggestion about listening to songs and rapping along is especially helpful because science studies show that music improves your memory of words.
Bonjour.
Talking helps you find gaps in your language, and you do need to talk a lot if you want to speak with sophistication.
Although, in the words of Dr. Stephen Krashen, "talking is not practice." "If you want improve your Spanish, it will not help you to speak Spanish out loud in the car as you drive to work in the morning. It will not help you to go to the bathroom, close the door and speak Spanish to the mirror. I used to think those things help. Now I think they don't."
(I think his point was that language acquisition happens with input, not output.)
Do the only publish French or other titles available as well!?
FlirtLife
Master Don Juan
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@Deep Dish - After you study books and practice listening, there's still something you're going to need: a language exchange partner. You practice French for half the time, and the other half you help the other person practice English. That first attempt will be brutal - tiring and a real struggle, because in conversation you have no time to lookup words. But stick with it, and it will be important for listening and speaking.
Language exchanges are an excellent technique and I appreciate the advice. I do meet up with a French group about twice a month, and make efforts at talking, but talking is NOT a major goal of mine.
My interest is watching movies/TV, communicating over social media, and collaborating with artists (or client work) over email.
This brings me to a larger point that how much language someone needs to learn depends on their goals.
I want to add that French is not widely spoken in the United States, except for Louisiana and the New England states. Because of limited real world situations, outside of meeting with a French group or language exchanges, I'm just fine with my limited goals.