I'm very confused and need some direction!!

[Playboy]

Hey everyone, hows it going?

I have quite a dilema and its making me feel like giving up. I hate giving up and I have been aware of this underground society for a long time now.

To truely understand whats going on let me take you back to my days before the community and at times after it before I changed:


I was raised by my mom mostly and had two sisters. All my life I always had girlfriends all around me. Many of them were girls I had not had sex with. Many of these girls I had not had sex with WANTED to have sex with me but I was too blind and niave to see it. When i look back on the oppurtunities that I let fade away, it makes me subtly sick to my stomach.

I ended up having several girlfriends, usually they would be very CLEAR of their interest in me and thats why we would hook up. I even ended up with an HB8 and almost married her (we were together almost 5 years). I became needy, predictable, and sensitive to her constant tests over the years, finally I had enough of her **** and left her. She gave chace for a bit but eventually we both decided things were better with us apart.

The kind of man I was, was very in tune and perceptive and understanding of the female energy. I was good at picking up on subtle clues to calibrate. I had standards and values that tended to guide a girl to want to be a "good" girl ... not necessarily a "bad" girl. If a girl respected me I would talk to her about anything. Many women whether interested in me or not would tell me I was such a rare guy, the perfect man, 3 dimensional and other things like that. My success was definately as a ladiesman, not a pimp or player. My three biggest weaknesses were lack of sexual tension and sexuality projection (also not making moves when girls gave the hints that I didn't realize -- messages, doggy eyes, complimenting, telling me I am so funny, being alone with me ect.), being too reactive, and not cutting girlfriend threads (where the girls would look to make me their girlfriends). I was very much a master of connecting with women, and having standards for behavior.

Fast forward

After I broke up with my girl I had a lot of girls interested but missed many oppurtunities and bobbled tests left and right. I knew I needed help so I found the community.

Who I have become is a guy that some girls would call needy or creepy. I tend to approach girls now and they know I am trying to pick them up. I am also outcome orientated. Most of what I do is generate sexual attraction in them with negs, ****y funny, push/pull, sexual frame reversals ect. If my delivery is good and I am on then this can go over well but I don't know how to talk normally to them anymore, and when I try to they lose the attraction they had in the first place. It's like I am getting the wrong type of girls interested in me. The problem is I hang around with the wrong type of girls, party girls, college girls, club girls. Girls that hook up. This is why I am working on this attraction generating part of my personality. Now I am not under the radar, I am not this great guy ... I am looked at by my girlfriends, my friends, and many girls I approach as the "sex" guy that they have too much of an ego to hook up with. Sometimes girls will get offended by my remarks too (most likely because of my delivery which is probably based on the disconnect and confusion going on with my beliefs)

I hope there is someone who is following me here, but here is the decision I have to make at this point as I have hit a plateau:

1) Step away from the community, my life is a mess right now and this is just frustrating me.

2) Go back to being myself, but cut girlfriend threads, kino more and project more sexuality, and be non-reactive (my 3 sticking points from before).

3) Suck it up, change to be who I need to be to get the type of women I want to get -- and just stop trying to make who I was work and instead change my beliefs, improve my delivery, and try to figure out the sticking points that are causing me problems NOW.

Any advice would be so greatly appreciate you don't even know. This is devastating and destracting to me. I have been on a plateau for so long that I am starting to wonder if I will EVER reach the next level and ready to quit.

 

[Brokeback Larry]

i have no idea how i feel upon this community but it was a long time ago when me and a serious gf broke up and i was just down. what the community did for me was put things into perspective, that tons of guys have female issues and not everyone is happy 24/7. it made me feel better to know that there were guys out there who had the same problems as me.

i read lots of articles, building confidence and that was my turn around. i never really took notes or memorized things off of here, just took some things to heart. and made a change in my outlook and realized its not about chasing women just living life, you don't sound to old so you have lots of life and opportunity's ahead of you, realize they're going to come and just lay back be yourself and it'll all be good!!

And you should never change man, just work on some imperfections.

 

[DonGorgon]

Sounds like you have some mental issues... See a counselor

 

[Dongfu]

Here is your problem

I tend to approach girls now and they know I am trying to pick them up. I am also outcome orientated. Most of what I do is generate sexual attraction in them with negs, ****y funny, push/pull, sexual frame reversals ect.

Here is your answer

3) Suck it up, change to be who I need to be to get the type of women I want to get -- and just stop trying to make who I was work.

 

[DonGorgon]

maybe i was too blunt but i still think he needs to address his issues first

 

[Playboy]

Here is your problem



Here is your answer

3 responces and it's split with one vote for each. lol.

I know that if I can find a way to become comfortable with who I have become and still be able to get in touch with that loving, accepting, dominant and caring vibe towards a woman that it would fix my delivery issues when I am trying to be more interesting and challenging to these girls. So I KNOW with some hard work and determination that I can fix that. What i DONT know is how to blend in being normal with all this wild counterproductive flirty stuff -- which I admitt is fun -- but kind of clashes with a more down to earth rapport approach.

Don Gordon:

I don't feel I need professional help for 2 reasons.

1) I think therapists are a crock of ****.

2) I know that if I just was to be myself and only take a handful of things that I have learned that it will solve any turmoil within me. What I DONT know (and why I havent done it) is if by making that choice I will be holding myself back or underachieving what I am capable of.

 

[DonGorgon]

well you have to play the game to win. and since you admit you like flirting you are in good shape... (I hate flirting).. Just go out and have fun challenging yourself to get want you want from women.. They do it to us all the time...LOL

 

[Playboy]

well you have to play the game to win. and since you admit you like flirting you are in good shape... (I hate flirting).. Just go out and have fun challenging yourself to get want you want from women.. They do it to us all the time...LOL

I dont hate flirting.

What I DO hate is some of the power control type stuff that is taught, now maybe it's because I take it too seriously and deliver it wrong, maybe it's because my ego is too big and feel I am higher value than to have to do that stuff, or maybe it's just because I can't stand it when a girl is hurt and rejects me for something I am doing that I don't feel is really me anyhow.

These are the sources of my issues, which is why I dont feel it needs professional help, it's all community related issues.

 

[DonGorgon]

I hear you but you are complicating yourself out of their panties...LOL You sound like a smart dude so use that to out smart them into giving you what you want. Don't focus on the details just manipulate and conquer.!!!!! women will love you for it.

 

[Playboy]

I hear you but you are complicating yourself out of their panties...LOL You sound like a smart dude so use that to out smart them into giving you what you want. Don't focus on the details just manipulate and conquer.!!!!! women will love you for it.

I didn't need that stuff before ... why do I need it now?

I mean I didn't need it when my game flat out sucked!! Now that I know the signs to act on, know how to be non-reactive, and know to kino and be more sexual with my vibe it makes it hard for me to do all that stuff. I mean isnt that going BACKWARDS?

 

[Playboy]

If there is anyone out there that has some advice other than

"Suck it up"

You know something intelligent that might actually help me?

I would love you long time if you passed it along.

 

[drak_ool]

i d like to help you but i don't quite understand your problem...
-are you not happy with the type of girls you re getting?
-are you not happy because you can't talk to girls "normally"? and what does that mean anyways?
-have you got laid lately?
-are you being labeled a "wh.ore" by your friends and that s what s bothering you?

 

[Playboy]

i d like to help you but i don't quite understand your problem...

Cool.

-are you not happy with the type of girls you re getting?

No thats not it. What I am not happy with is the idea that women are these superficial creatures who you can't be genuine with, that you must do all these "tricks" to get them to want you. I feel like I would rather be an asexual than have to do all that fancy stuff sometimes, and I know better than to have to believe that because I have had success before WITHOUT doing that stuff.

-are you not happy because you can't talk to girls "normally"? and what does that mean anyways?

I can talk to girls normally especially if it is on *MY* terms, but I am a very down to earth humble guy and I dont like thinking I have to try to impress them when I talk to them to get them to like me, I feel like if I have to advertise and act all fake then who needs the *****es.

-have you got laid lately?

Not lately no ... I get kiss closes a lot, I get interest and stuff ... but im so confused that I dont feel confident to try to finish the deal.

-

are you being labeled a "wh.ore" by your friends and that s what s bothering you?

My friends see someone who use to be very non-needy, down to earth, cool and friendly .. a ladiesman. They have seen him turn into someone they feel he is not or that I am BETTER than. That DOES bother me. In fact most of my girl fans have decided they dont like the new me and broken contact. Unfortunately the new me is so internalized at this point that I am stuck between a rock in a hard place. I gotta either work on becoming congruent with my ladiesman natural side again (this time with more goals and sexual energy) or I need to finish the job and fully transform. Right now I am stuck in a place in the middle -- which is why I am not going for the closes or losing closes.

 

[Answers]

Cool.
No thats not it. What I am not happy with is the idea that women are these superficial creatures who you can't be genuine with, that you must do all these "tricks" to get them to want you. I feel like I would rather be an asexual than have to do all that fancy stuff sometimes, and I know better than to have to believe that because I have had success before WITHOUT doing that stuff.


I can talk to girls normally especially if it is on *MY* terms, but I am a very down to earth humble guy and I dont like thinking I have to try to impress them when I talk to them to get them to like me, I feel like if I have to advertise and act all fake then who needs the *****es.


My friends see someone who use to be very non-needy, down to earth, cool and friendly .. a ladiesman. They have seen him turn into someone they feel he is not or that I am BETTER than. That DOES bother me. In fact most of my girl fans have decided they dont like the new me and broken contact. Unfortunately the new me is so internalized at this point that I am stuck between a rock in a hard place. I gotta either work on becoming congruent with my ladiesman natural side again (this time with more goals and sexual energy) or I need to finish the job and fully transform. Right now I am stuck in a place in the middle -- which is why I am not going for the closes or losing closes.

I was confused too until I went back to basics! Don't try to get women by using tricks etc be a better you and attract them to you.

What I do is treat women like little girls. This doesn't mean I don't respect them it means I have fun with them and joke around. They'll see you as their protector too!

Another thing they like in a man is strength of character. This basically means you don't take any of their s***! It seems like a contradiction but they'll like you better because they'll have more respect for you! Always be prepared to walk away! ALWAYS and let them know that!

Basically its about treating them well, having fun with them but being prepared to walk away if they break any of your rules!

 

[drak_ool]

My friends see someone who use to be very non-needy, down to earth, cool and friendly .. a ladiesman.

when you say "ladiesman" do you mean that you were your girl friends' "girl friend"? and now you turned into a wanna-be player who s not quite confident enough to embrace this new identity yet, which leads to girls not taking you quite seriously and thinking you re a jerk, which in turn leads to yourself being confused about who you really are and who you should strive to become?

if i understood your situation right, here s my advice: first of all stop worrying about what your friends (male or female) say or think about you. Start thinking about what your goals are (in life in general and with girls in particular), and then follow that path without paying attention to what anyone else will tell you. This is called self-improvement for a reason, and no amount of external help (this site included) will guide you towards your goal if you don't fully believe in it.

secondly, you are a MAN. women don't expect you to interact with them as one of their girlfriends but if you do they will treat you like one. The women out there are not your mum, or your sisters so you can't open up to them like you did to your family. I disagree with you that you have to trick women into liking you. if you emanate masculinity they will be attracted to you. It will take some soul searching before you will truly embrace your "maleness" but you have to understand that this is what women are attracted to. it s called "natural game"

another important step is to stick to your self-imposed path. Never stray from your path because of a female because: 1. she will loose respect for you in the long run, 2. you will loose respect for yourself. if girls don't fit in with your masterplan just drop them, don't alter the plan for them.

so CHOOSE A GOAL, WORK YOUR HARDEST TO ACHIEVE IT, DON'T GIVE IN TO EXTERNAL PRESSURES

 

[Playboy]

when you say "ladiesman" do you mean that you were your girl friends' "girl friend"?

Well kind of, except that a lot of the girls were attracted to me and gave me chances to escalate to the physical which I did not notice or wasn't confident enough to notice or in touch with my sexuality enough to notice. Also a lot of those girls went the extra mile and would hit on me, confess their love for me, and things of that nature. So it's not like I was the guy who ALWAYS got LJBF and became the girls girlfriends, it's just that there were enough SP to hold me back from being more of the selector in these situations.

and now you turned into a wanna-be player who s not quite confident enough to embrace this new identity yet,

This is definately true.

which leads to girls not taking you quite seriously and thinking you re a jerk,

This is definately true.

which in turn leads to yourself being confused about who you really are and who you should strive to become?

Exactly -- things were so much easier before and there were not all these different perspectives to be confused about. I FEEL like I understand where I went wrong in the old days and if I could just go back to being that guy I could overcome the old SP and get success faster than hanging onto this identity that people see through that I seem to be unable to solidify and believe in.

first of all stop worrying about what your friends (male or female) say or think about you.

Where will the line be drawn? When I have lost the rest of my remaining friends?

Start thinking about what your goals are (in life in general and with girls in particular), and then follow that path without paying attention to what anyone else will tell you. This is called self-improvement for a reason, and no amount of external help (this site included) will guide you towards your goal if you don't fully believe in it.

My goal is to be a normal guy who gets women without overthinking or resorting to unneccesary steps that arnt necessarily congruent for me anyways.

secondly, you are a MAN. women don't expect you to interact with them as one of their girlfriends but if you do they will treat you like one.

Yes but if I cut threads (which I know how to do now) and don't get into those kinda convo's I wouldnt have that problem would I?

The women out there are not your mum, or your sisters so you can't open up to them like you did to your family.

No but if I stay positive, fun, playful, and have some sexual energy than that wont be a problem either would it?

I disagree with you that you have to trick women into liking you. if you emanate masculinity they will be attracted to you. It will take some soul searching before you will truly embrace your "maleness" but you have to understand that this is what women are attracted to. it s called "natural game"

So anything that I might do to try to "fake" disinterest so that they can't be "quick to reject me" ..... instead of just dealing in the moment like a man with the reactions they have or whatever comes up .... I should stop doing ... right?

another important step is to stick to your self-imposed path. Never stray from your path because of a female because: 1. she will loose respect for you in the long run, 2. you will loose respect for yourself. if girls don't fit in with your masterplan just drop them, don't alter the plan for them.

Gotcha

so CHOOSE A GOAL, WORK YOUR HARDEST TO ACHIEVE IT, DON'T GIVE IN TO EXTERNAL PRESSURES

Cool.

So basically if I read you right your telling me to just interact with women however I want to interact, but to take the interaction towards a sexual goal and don't get caught up in the details. Right?

 

[DonGorgon]

Looks like you got the help you needed...

 

[potato]

What I DO hate is some of the power control type stuff that is taught, now maybe it's because I take it too seriously and deliver it wrong, maybe it's because my ego is too big and feel I am higher value than to have to do that stuff, or maybe it's just because I can't stand it when a girl is hurt and rejects me for something I am doing that I don't feel is really me anyhow.

These are the sources of my issues, which is why I dont feel it needs professional help, it's all community related issues.

I hear what you are talking about. I’ve never had problems getting women and when I did first hear of this community I did try out a few of its tricks. Some of it worked but I quickly came to the realization that I didn’t want to interact with women in such a way.

Perhaps the most repulsive to me is the mindset that leads guys to say things such as,

Don't focus on the details just manipulate and conquer.!!!!! women will love you for it.

I don’t at all like playing a game on a woman I’d much rather play a game with a woman and there is a world of difference between the two.

When I was around twenty there was this much older woman that I used to regularly have long conversations with. One day she told me that, from her point of view, that to get a woman all I had to do was talk with her and that if I talked long enough that she would see how I was and fall for me.

I’ve found that that really is the best way to get women. I am a good looking enough guy and social enough that I can get just about any woman to sit and talk with me. While, I suppose, I could have had far more women than I have, I tend to only continue on with those with whom I feel good chemistry, a strong connection. Overall I’ve been very happy with the women who I have connected with.

I never look at a woman as someone to be manipulated and conquered but rather as a playmate to play with. There have been many times when I’ve been with a woman and situations arose where it really was her and me against the world, it is a bonding experience like no other. Isn’t there a song that goes something like, “looking for a lover who won’t blow my cover, she’s so hard to find”? If you find such a woman why would you look at her or treat her as anything but as a trusted ally?

Guys who only look at women as sexual conquests, as players do, miss out on a great deal of the fun and satisfaction that can be had in having enduring relationships with women. Studies have consistently shown that men who form lasting, fulfilling relationships with women tend to live longer, healthier, happier lives than those that don’t.

 

[DonGorgon]

^^^I was in an 8 year relationship with an HB9 so i know what its like to have a meaningful LTR... but at the same time hos and sluts are there for one thing and we must compete with may other dudes to get it....

 

[drak_ool]

So basically if I read you right your telling me to just interact with women however I want to interact, but to take the interaction towards a sexual goal and don't get caught up in the details. Right?

exactly! this is the ages-old "just be yourself" line but with a twist: you have to be your BEST self. you have to realize that you act different around different types of people (your friends, your parents, your co-workers), but you are still being "yourself". However, in every specific situation you show the most advantageous part of your "self". i mean you don't go around telling your parents you smoke weed right? or your friends that you cry over your mom's shoulder when your upset? same with girls, you have to understand that there are some parts of your "self" that you can show them and others that you shouldn't.

btw, how are you loosing your friends because of acting like a player? are you hitting on your old girl friends or how is it bothering them? and as far as male friends, what is their problem with that?