im starting to sympathize with women

[disgustipated]

There are very few what I would call "men" left. And I'm basing that off of different criteria of your everyday chick nowadays. This realization has been building for about 20 years or so but has become more apparent in the last 10, and unde****ingniable in the last 5. And ill explain.

I.went into the work force, full time, at age 18. Soaking wet 140 lbs. I got into a job that required repetitive heavy lifting....menial, blue collar shiiit. A guy made a comment to me at the time how I wouldnt be able to handle the job....I thought, how ****y...ill show him. I hated the job, but swore to myself before I quit is he better than him. And I did, and it wasn't hard...at all. I thought, hmmm that's odd...I thought for sure this guy that was sooo confident would be a beast. He wasn't. I didn't understand where he got his confidence from. When I got good at something it didn't make me act outwardly towards others. This was the first of many encounters of this kind to come.

I began to take a lot of blue collar jobs throughout the years. I was restless, going from one to another. Id quickly get good or very good at a particular thing....roofing, siding, forklift, stacker, order picker, operator, lumper, you name it...and lose interest or come up against bottlenecks...and be on to the next one. With how fast I would progress I began to think man, there must be something special about me. There really isn't ...I just have a work ethic.

Thee biggest difference between me and guys I run into in my line of work is work ethic. I.can't tell you how many fuuuckinggg worthless guys I've ran into the last 5 years. I don't know where these guys are coming from, really I don't. Is the culture? I don't even mean knowledge persay, some are bright. Just flat out , put ya head down, cut the bulllshiit , focus and pull together and let's get some work done type attitude is GONE with MOST these guys nowadays...I can count on one hand with spare fingers of 15 guys at work that I would trust to have my back on shiiit that needed to get done. One guy...I swear to god talks more than Amy human being I've met in life...male or female. And he's surrounded by males all day long....and SWAMPED with work. I can respect the **** out of a less talented guy that puts forth w big effort versus a guy that doesn't try. They even have a phrase nowadays that guys use to shame other guys..."try hards". Wow. You're SUPPOSED to.try hard! Especially if you suck! These type of guys are a dime a dozen I'm telling ya. Fire one, hire another. They're everywhere. Scrubs.

And here's where I think its relative to the thread title. I don't think this exists in a vacuum. This is mostly how I judge what a guy is made of, if he can be counted on...its not necessarily the criteria a woman would use. But it inderctly is. If a guy can't get passionate about what he does for a living , isn't that just gonna seep over into his character? Or reflect in the makeup of his female relations? To me it seems if you can't handle your shiiit around other men...how are you going to have any confidence with women when you already you know ain't about shiiit. So, I kinda get it when I hear dumb sayings like, where are all the real men at or man up!! Normally crimgeworthy! But more and more relateable I'm telling ya. I don't know if pre 90s had more men that were man's men but dammit nowadays sure don't.

 

[Lexington]

It's a cultural thing. Younger people in the United States have become accustomed to prosperity; it's all they've ever known. Most folks in this country haven't faced real hardships (myself included). Yes, we all have our struggles but these are quite minor compared to previous generations which had to deal with fighting wars, the Great Depression etc.

In the old days, most people did some form of physical labor. Now most people sit at desks all day and they have gadgets to do everything for them. What does it say about a population when a huge chunk of it has essentially given up on even looking good and being healthy/fit? Folks are so addicted to pleasure and comfort that they won't even make the effort to stop eating badly and to get off their fat asses!

I think that it is pretty much inevitable that this would happen to any society that has been prosperous for a very long time. They say struggle builds character. These days we have a lot less struggle to deal with. I had the chance to visit China a few years ago. The country really blew me away. I was especially impressed by people's work ethic. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that most people work there significantly harder at what they do than they do here-- and they do it for way less pay/benefits.

Folks in China have far fewer rights than we do here. But most of them don't complain. Yes, they're not allowed to complain but I also think that the Chinese are culturally less likely to complain. We here in the USA have more rights and opportunities than most but all we do is complain. We insist that no one "judge" us and we value "self esteem" more than holding people to high standards.

Of course, I do think things are about to change quite drastically in the coming years. China, India, Brazil etc. are all pumping out scientists, engineers and entrepreneurs at a fast clip. We are about to face a whole lot of increased competition from around the world. We can no longer rest on our laurels. People entering the workforce today will likely have to work longer hours for less pay. People can no longer expect a certain standard of living simply because they happen to live in the USA.

 

[( . )( . )]

Also might have a lot to do with:

* Feminized workforce, never ending HR, credentialism, regulations, political correctness.

* No rewards of the past for hard work or masculine behaviour required to actually do the hard work.

* No reason to drive ones self and "build" a better future, the average beta (the pasts average Joe) doesn't have a wife and kids depending on him these days. And even if he does he's no longer the King of his own castle. It's a "partnership", which goes back to my second point. Plus most young men can no longer afford their own castle now anyway.

 

[disgustipated]

Those sound like more excuses to not pull your own weight. I deal with most all same issues as they do everyday plus some shiit that particular to me....I still can be counted on for effort.

These are the same guys out their in the dating scene. I pity the shiit these girls have to pick through , that's of course if the girl herself ain't shiiit.

 

[evan12]

* No reason to drive ones self and "build" a better future, the average beta (the pasts average Joe) doesn't have a wife and kids depending on him these days. And even if he does he's no longer the King of his own castle. It's a "partnership", which goes back to my second point. Plus most young men can no longer afford their own castle now anyway.

in other societies men work hard to get married and work hard after marriage to offer food to children .
in USA , no guarantie you will have woman and children , and if you get married it is all struggling .
I found a lot of talented guys who have no more desire to go forward in their life because they no longer think they will have family and kids .

 

[( . )( . )]

Those sound like more excuses to not pull your own weight.

I don't think they are excuses. "Excuses" can only apply if you have some other alternative to base it off, these men don't. The above list is just the way things are shaped for men now in my honest opinion. I may be wrong though.

 

[disgustipated]

I see it as excuses or reasons. One is justifiable, one isn't.

We don't have a feminised work culture. No hr persay. A.tad pc, not much. This particular job, those don't apply....would definitely be excuses. Excuses that don't make sense even. Point take though....a heavy HR environment, especially female, can squash a lot of male motivation or aggression. You have to be able to figure a way around that though.

Reward? For putting forth a lil.effort? For doing your job? This must be where my disconnect is. I've never been stingy with my effort. It's the same if I'm making crap wage or a decent wage. You go to work, to work. They even call it that...work. And...they pay.you for it.

And I also can't relate to the building for a future thing. Maybe that's because I'm.older. I'm working so one day I don't have to. Whether I'm with someone now or in the future doesn't matter. The one constant is gonna be me. I gotta put forth a good effort to get where I need to be. I sure coulda picked a more lucrative field but if I fail, it won't be because lack of effort. I can "get", how a young guy might think if he has no prospects he may be depressed at the thought of the long journey ahead and what's the point. But if he never snaps out of that....isn't he just flawed to begin with and doomed to loneliness?

 

[disgustipated]

**** yes,.thank you Danger. Was beginning to think I'm the.crazy one. We definitely have those teams. And I have the most frustrations with bottlenecks too. If you think that book.will help and is relative I will pick it up.

My older brother is just like me. He was a courier in his younger days and overachieved on his routes, turning 8 hr routes into 4 hr routes. Instead of drawing the routes out to 8 hours, he finished early and wanted to leave early instead of milking the company clock. They used to make him stay to help other guys who sucked or were milking intentionally...which made him furious. We joke around about how we wish we could be like "them", and not give a ****...how life would be so much easier that way. But really we.know this is what makes us who we are.

 

[( . )( . )]

Similarly, when you put up small disincentives for men, at first only a few bite. But as you increase the disincentives.....before long you have created an army of worthless men. We can blame the men, but if you look at how much us hard workers are punished for our success and efforts.....you can begin to understand the rationale for their choice.

This goes for ALL men, not just those still on blue pill time. I always had a good work ethic in the past. Even busted my ass as a mature age apprentice and continued on for a cert 4 contractors licence in my chosen trade. I no longer have to fill some other snoozers back pocket (besides all the licensing and insurance, thankyou over regulated womanly economy) which is good but still the more I work the more the taxman takes for welfare leeches and destructive leftoid incentives I don't agree with, and then there's child support hounding me for payments to a kid I don't even get to see and the more I make the more those ****s take also.

So in my case I guess I'm saying work ethic..schmerk ethic. Those days of men working hard together for a common good are long gone. It's admirable you still hold it dear though disgustipated but it's a little too late in the game for that.

I've read some reviews on that book Danger, I'll probably get it but at a guess he'll just be preaching to the already converted.

 

[disgustipated]

I.respect what you've accomplished. I do. But I don't ever get to a point where these turds make me throw in the towel. There will be a day where I can't go as hard , help...I'm.a.lil slower now than in my prime....but I hope there is never a day where I don't give a good.ol fashioned try. Respect.

 

[Big Nuts]

Those sound like more excuses to not pull your own weight. I deal with most all same issues as they do everyday plus some shiit that particular to me....I still can be counted on for effort.

These are the same guys out their in the dating scene. I pity the shiit these girls have to pick through , that's of course if the girl herself ain't shiiit.

-------------------------
......but the girls are very much shiite!!!!!!!

 

[( . )( . )]

I.respect what you've accomplished. I do. But I don't ever get to a point where these turds make me throw in the towel.

No towel throwing for me, I can't mock the decline from a distance and go full poolside unfortunately because I have a good woman and an 8 month old I actually care about. I just try and get along by doing as little as possible for the broken system. I highly recommend it.

 

[PlayHer Man]

There are no lazy humans... only people with low standards, low incentives and low confidence.

The human animal is a reward-based creature. It will bust its ass if it sees a WORTHY reward in sight. Where there is no reward there is no incentive. Where there is no incentive there is no work ethic.

I happen to be a person who wants the best out of life, so I continue to bust my ass so I can keep inching closer and closer to my goals. But not everyone desires greatness. Some men are satisfied with a roof over their head, a cold beer every night and sex from a fat chick. So if you already have those things and those things are all you give a sh!t about.. then why would you work any harder? If you can maintain your comfortable life by being lazy.. then you will.

Most Americans live their lives through celebrities and TV shows anyway. When Brad and Angelina have a baby its a "big deal". When Iron Man saves the world.. its a "big deal". People live in fantasy worlds and zone out of their own boring lives.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

This may sound like an off the wall reason for the behavior you're seeing, but I believe it is a correct description of what's going on.

The fundamental culprit for the decay of society, (of which lazy young workers are merely one of many symptoms) is democracy. Not democrats, or republicans, or prosperity, but the basic structure of democracy. No matter where it exists, it slowly eats away at society, until there's nothing left.

This is has been greatly exacerbated in the last 40 years since the world pretty much went off the gold standard.

Why? Because politicians are always competing with each other for votes. And the winner the the competition is always going to be the guy who can promise the most stuff, for the most people.

One of those "things" that they promise is a "safety net."

If you vote for my opponent you'll end up out on the street, but if you vote for me you'll get ten years of unemployment, AND a fully funded retirement.

This takes a while to manifest, but consider the following.

Each generation is largely effected by their interactions with their parents, which is itself largely determined by their parents' interaction with reality.

Each generation is promised more and more stuff by politicians, and they raise children that have a higher and higher baseline of the stuff they expect for FREE.

Why has it accelerated recently?

It all ties in with the gold standard.

When Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard in the 70's, it allowed governments to print money at will.

This in turn let politicians promise more and more stuff to everybody. Free medicine, generous retirement plans, year long unemployment, very generous welfare plans.

This, of course, made people, in general, feel more and more "entitled."

The more "entitled" people feel, the less likely they are to "suck it up and work," as they honestly don't feel they need to.

Of course, back in the day when you either worked your arse off or went hungry, everybody was keen to work their arse off.

Now, I'm not saying that the lazy workers of today are consciously thinking that "hey, I don't need to work hard, because I can go on welfare."

It's just that the ever present fear of being broke, hungry, and homeless has been completely taken away.

Again, this isn't conscious. It's just been drilled into their heads since they were kids that "somebody" will always be there to take care of them.

Think about the math for a minute.

If you were born right about when the gold standard ended, and the big promises of government began, your kids would just be entering the work force about now.

This means, of course, that as the current workforce starts to retire, and the twenty-somethings's start to fill their shoes, the U.S. economy has nowhere to go but down.

The gold-free, fiat currency experiment is rapidly coming to a close.

 

[Burroughs]

Hey disgustipated....Louis C K expressed your feelings in one of his classic pieces.

have a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JW1tJLRtsk

 

[Jitterbug]

I can sympathize with having to deal with worthless guys at work. I run the operations team at my workplace and we're team get-sh1t-done. Lots of frustration having to deal with team bottleneck and team fvck-sh1t-up. I like doing a good job because I have pride in my work, so that's incentive enough for me, but overall I can't help but notice the disincentives everywhere to stop a man from performing at his best. It's very hard to motivate some members of my team because the useless idiots in other teams make just as much or way more, and that's one of the many disincentives. Not every man desires to be great, and there is nothing wrong with that. A functioning society needs its worker bees, not everyone should be a leader of men.

Having said that, why are you conflating two unrelated issues? Remember, being a provider is at an all time historical low in value as regarded by women. The hardest working, most useful men in my team are not exactly swimming in poons, quite the opposite in fact. The best bloke in my team just got dumped by his fat plain girlfriend who should be lucky to have him. The other top bloke got kicked out of his house (one he just built himself) by his wife, only just managed to get back in and is in constant marital stress atm. As their manager, I can vouch for their top notch work ethics and professional skills. Do those get them valued by women - their women? A resounding NO. The average stoner in a band in my city (famous for live music scene) gets about 10,000 times more attention, sex and affection from women.

The useless ones may or may not be doing well with women, but there are enough of them who get more and hotter women than the hard workers. You can't exactly go tell those hard working blokes to work even harder so they too can get a woman who isn't a leech or isn't a weight class higher than themselves.

I'm afraid, dear disgustipated, I can't share your sympathy with the women in this case.

 

[Burroughs]

The best bloke in my team just got dumped by his fat plain girlfriend who should be lucky to have him. The other top bloke got kicked out of his house (one he just built himself) by his wife, only just managed to get back in and is in constant marital stress atm. As their manager, I can vouch for their top notch work ethics and professional skills. Do those get them valued by women - their women? A resounding NO. The average stoner in a band in my city (famous for live music scene) gets about 10,000 times more attention, sex and affection from women.

The useless ones may or may not be doing well with women, but there are enough of them who get more and hotter women than the hard workers. You can't exactly go tell those hard working blokes to work even harder so they too can get a woman who isn't a leech or isn't a weight class higher than themselves.

I'm afraid, dear disgustipated, I can't share your sympathy with the women in this case.

and there it is

the reality is men are waking up...

they refuse to put into a society in which women and children are denied to them

remember feminism was a carefully constructed movement designed by the elite to depopulate the western world.

the ennui of the middle class man is another thread unraveling in the fabric of modernity

 

[backbreaker]

I do as well op.

once you take the pill and get past the bitterness and see the game for what it is, man you start to feel for some women. i mean women are people too. they got jobs, esteem, bank accounts, feelings all like we do.

like i know this woman who is very very hot, she's country lol but she's very good looking, has an elite ass lol. but she's a law enforcement officer and it's like, no one takes her seriously and she really wants to be taken seriousl. she's not bad at her job. she's just hot.

i mean it sounds funny but imagine this. you go to work and no matter what you wear every girl is looking at you every day and saying "damn look at that dude's ****! DAYM i got to get some of that" i mean. every day. you can't make a comment without someone making a sexual innuendo, you can't wear anything without your **** just showing lol beucase you got a big ass **** you know everytime you walk buy as soon as you leave every girl is saying something. i kinda feel bad for that woman. it's not her fault she has a nice ass and is hot lol. she's really really sweet too. not a ***** or anything, very soft spoken very down home country girl. with a big ass lol.


So and I mean, i'm married but even when i wasn't a lot of times, just being freaking normal will take you to new heights. just being the guy who doesn't go gaga and can hold a normal conversation with women who are hot and used to be oogled all the time will make you the man women want to be around. you are a breath of fresh air.

 

[betheman]

the only sympathy I have for women is due to the role feminism has blurred thoe boundaries between male and female roles. feminism teaches women they can have it all, they dont have to earn it. they have massive priviledge over men, they get away with sh!t in the workplace and in life I could never get away with.
I work with lots of women and when the sh!t get tough, the tears start, the *****ing and fighting, the jealousy, its a pain in the ar$e. there are women who are good at their job, good personalities, work hard, but they are the minority.

so no, not a lot of sympathy here

 

[Burroughs]

Women are meant to be the bound and owned property of men their entire lives the way a horse or a dog is....and to be treated kindly in return for loyalty

this is how it was in all civilizations with few exceptions for the last 2 million years.

only in the last 120 years have full rights been given to women.....we see now what kind of full retard move that was.

that men don't understand and demand female subservience in all things is the chief reason for modern man's weakness, retrograde development and faggot ways