I'll have another won't run in Belmont!

[Robert28]

bb,

with the pace that was run today do you think IHA would have won the triple crown? I know there are alot of variables, but say he gets a good break and stays out of trouble the whole trip. think he would have ran down the field?

 

[cordoncordon]

That is too bad. I have been a horse race owner/trainer since I was 15. Harness race horses. IHA has the start of what's called a bowed tendon. It's basically the tendon that runs from the start of your wrist up to the elbow. They can be healed, or at least dealt with, with time off and lots of blistering or liquid nitrogen freezing of the area, but to race him, especially when he has a bigtime career ahead of him as a stud meister breeding other horses, would be just stupid. I have dealt with many a bowed tendon on horses throughout my training career, and it for sure would have affected him and made it worse if he had raced. Owner and trainer did the smart thing.

Here is what I'll have Another started to have....a bowed tendon. Only thing that will heal it is time and treatment.

http://vetmoves.com/equine/bowed-tendons/

 

[backbreaker]

e

bb,

with the pace that was run today do you think IHA would have won the triple crown? I know there are alot of variables, but say he gets a good break and stays out of trouble the whole trip. think he would have ran down the field?

if healhty no doubt in my mind. he would have crip walked the last furlong and still won by 5.

paynter, who really is a good horse (word is he threw a shoe in the race) in faced IHA and crative cause in the santa anita derby and i think fished 7 or 8 back off the top 2 who were a nose apart, and that wbas a 9F race not a 12F race. that's the talent difference

in some ways i'm actually relieved that IHA did not win the TC seedcase yesterday would have been an insult to slew, the bid and affirmed who had to face the likes of sham and alydar in the belmont to win the triple crown. felt the same way about big brown.

I have a new theory on what happened, my wife brought this to my attention and knowing O'Neil's history this makes the most sense.

Belmont has the most strict reciving barn in the country. a reciving barn is where you take the horses to get drug/medication screened before the race. alot more places are a lot more lax than Belmont is.

I'll have another was reported to have had shock thearpy on his back a few weeks before the derby. i now think that was a coverup for ehis front leg problems, which he has had since a 2YO and missed alot of time for them

I now think he had something done to his front leg before the derby and maybe even the preakness, that he could not have done before the bemont. they worked him friday to see if they could run without it, figured they could not and scratched him. if i had to guess it would be some type of pain blocker or some type of steriod. Considering doug O'neils has a hearing in a few weeks for milk shaking horses here in california and is routinaly failing horse drug tests that would not shock me in the least bit.


it's the exact same thing that happened to big brown, **** rick actually admiited he was giving big brown steriods and admitted he would not be e able to give them to him in the belmont but went on to say he wouldn't need them anyway and he should still win.

curlin also ran on steriods until about november of his 3YO year. when they decided to send him to dubai they had to stop giving them to him

 

[cordoncordon]

The

e if healhty no doubt in my mind. he would have crip walked the last furlong and still won by 5.

paynter, who really is a good horse (word is he threw a shoe in the race) in faced IHA and crative cause in the santa anita derby and i think fished 7 or 8 back off the top 2 who were a nose apart, and that wbas a 9F race not a 12F race. that's the talent difference

in some ways i'm actually relieved that IHA did not win the TC seedcase yesterday would have been an insult to slew, the bid and affirmed who had to face the likes of sham and alydar in the belmont to win the triple crown. felt the same way about big brown.

I have a new theory on what happened, my wife brought this to my attention and knowing O'Neil's history this makes the most sense.

Belmont has the most strict reciving barn in the country. a reciving barn is where you take the horses to get drug/medication screened before the race. alot more places are a lot more lax than Belmont is.

I'll have another was reported to have had shock thearpy on his back a few weeks before the derby. i now think that was a coverup for ehis front leg problems, which he has had since a 2YO and missed alot of time for them

I now think he had something done to his front leg before the derby and maybe even the preakness, that he could not have done before the bemont. they worked him friday to see if they could run without it, figured they could not and scratched him. if i had to guess it would be some type of pain blocker or some type of steriod. Considering doug O'neils has a hearing in a few weeks for milk shaking horses here in california and is routinaly failing horse drug tests that would not shock me in the least bit.


it's the exact same thing that happened to big brown, **** rick actually admiited he was giving big brown steriods and admitted he would not be e able to give them to him in the belmont but went on to say he wouldn't need them anyway and he should still win.

curlin also ran on steriods until about november of his 3YO year. when they decided to send him to dubai they had to stop giving them to him

The racing commissions banning steroids on race horses is the biggest crock of SH!T I have seen in a long time. I mean it really defies all logic. These animals are all racing 10, 20, 30 times a year. They work out on most of the days they don't race. They undergo a tremendous amount of stress and a huge physical toll is placed upon them. These are world class athletes, and they expect them to race on hay on fvcking oats? BS. Steroids are not bad for you. They are not some illegal drug like an elephant tranq or EPO. Steroids help the horse to keep his weight up, his appetite healthy, his energy level at normal levels, etc etc. I used to give everyone of my horses 10 cc's of Equipoise and Winstrol V every month and saw everyday the benefit they provided and I never once saw them harm a horse. Would you rather have a healthy happy horse eating everyday, shiny coat, feeling good? Or a run down, dull, no energy horse run down from having to race and train just about every day of the year?

I could almost say the same for bicarb, or baking soda. All it does is mop up the lactic acid produced by the horse when he races. So it does not make the horse run faster. It basically means the horse can perform at the same level for longer.


Now sure you get into your stronger drugs like I said and those should be banned. There is no reason a horse needs EPO or Etorphine. But there has to be a happy medium here.

 

[cordoncordon]

e if healhty no doubt in my mind. he would have crip walked the last furlong and still won by 5.

paynter, who really is a good horse (word is he threw a shoe in the race) in faced IHA and crative cause in the santa anita derby and i think fished 7 or 8 back off the top 2 who were a nose apart, and that wbas a 9F race not a 12F race. that's the talent difference

in some ways i'm actually relieved that IHA did not win the TC seedcase yesterday would have been an insult to slew, the bid and affirmed who had to face the likes of sham and alydar in the belmont to win the triple crown. felt the same way about big brown.

I have a new theory on what happened, my wife brought this to my attention and knowing O'Neil's history this makes the most sense.

Belmont has the most strict reciving barn in the country. a reciving barn is where you take the horses to get drug/medication screened before the race. alot more places are a lot more lax than Belmont is.

I'll have another was reported to have had shock thearpy on his back a few weeks before the derby. i now think that was a coverup for ehis front leg problems, which he has had since a 2YO and missed alot of time for them

I now think he had something done to his front leg before the derby and maybe even the preakness, that he could not have done before the bemont. they worked him friday to see if they could run without it, figured they could not and scratched him. if i had to guess it would be some type of pain blocker or some type of steriod. Considering doug O'neils has a hearing in a few weeks for milk shaking horses here in california and is routinaly failing horse drug tests that would not shock me in the least bit.


it's the exact same thing that happened to big brown, **** rick actually admiited he was giving big brown steriods and admitted he would not be e able to give them to him in the belmont but went on to say he wouldn't need them anyway and he should still win.

curlin also ran on steriods until about november of his 3YO year. when they decided to send him to dubai they had to stop giving them to him

I have no doubt Ill have Another would have won had he raced and was healthy. Race set up great for him.

I have a hard time believing they scratch a horse that could be granted racing immortality by winning unless he really was lame. Not sure how many hours before the race the horses had to be in the detention barn, I'm guessing 72? But if they had wanted to give him his shock therapy or some kind of nerve block, they could have done so a few days before the race and been ok. Horses usually feel the best effect from Shock therapy a few days after it is done anyway.

My guess he was starting to bow, and they said rather than take a chance where the horse breaks down and they need to euthanize him, they took for the for sure breeding money. BTW, imo the odds of him breaking down during a race from a bow are not high. They will come out of the race lame if it goes, but it won't be a catastrophic injury.

 

[backbreaker]

kneg /

I have no doubt Ill have Another would have won had he raced and was healthy. Race set up great for him.

I have a hard time believing they scratch a horse that could be granted racing immortality by winning unless he really was lame. Not sure how many horses before the race the horses had to be in the detention barn, I'm guessing 72? But if they had wanted to give him his shock therapy or some kind of nerve block, they could have done so a few days before the race and been ok. Horses usually feel the best effect from Shock therapy a few days after it is done anyway.

My guess he was starting to bow, and they said rather than take a chance where the horsereaks down and they need to euthanize him, they took for the for sure breeding money. BTW, imo the odds of him breaking down during a race from a bow are not high. They will come out of the race lame if it goes, but it won't be a catastrophic injury.

horse racing / stallion politics. a horse that is injuried before he can run in the belmont and win the triple crown is worth a lot more at stud than a horse that ran in and lost the last leg of the triple crown. in other words, assuming doug knew beyond a shadow of a doubt the horse was not going to be himself his value was never going to be higher in his career than the the three weeks between the preakness / bemont.

perfect example, take smarty jones and big brown. both have pretty pedestrain pedigrees, at least at the time it was thought so smarty jones was by a sire named elusive quality who at the time was a new sire from australia though he ran in the US and no one really new anything about him but it turned m out he was a great sire. he is also the sire of quality road who would have been odds on had he ran in the mine that bird derby but had a quarter crack, and he sired ravens pass who won the 08 breeders cup classic at santa anita. anyway my point is, at the time smarty joneswas racing elusive quality was a 10k sire ("now it's about 80k).

anyway none of that is really importtant i am just trying to establish that t the time neither had world class pedigrees. smarty jones was undefeated going into the derby, won the derby won the preakness. the morning of the belmont they sold half of smarty jones to three chimney's farm for 19 million dollars and kept the other half. he ran in the belmont and came in 2nd that was his last race, but his stud de hl was already done before the belmont. the first year at stud they were charging 100k per live foal.

big brown, was undefeated going into the derby, won, was undefeated going into the belmont, came in last in the belmont. however big brown ran 2more times and won both races, but he was clearly not the same horse (steriods), he wasn't demolishing horses anymore. he retired in october right before the classic and had no stud deal in place.

the same farm that bought smarty jones bought big brown.. in the neighboorhood of 22 million for the entire horse though i'm not sure on the exacts. I do know the exact price per live foal becuase i called TC myself beucase i was interested in him, it was 65k.. 35% less than smarty jones.

and ****, big brown had a grade 1 win going into the derby the florida derby. smarty jones won the arkansas derby which at the time was not a grade 1.

so my piont is, you want your deal done before the belmont if you cang et it. if not you better be damn sure you are going to win it. that is why he was scratched.

 

[cordoncordon]

kneg /

horse racing / stallion politics. a horse that is injuried before he can run in the belmont and win the triple crown is worth a lot more at stud than a horse that ran in and lost the last leg of the triple crown. in other words, assuming doug knew beyond a shadow of a doubt the horse was not going to be himself his value was never going to be higher in his career than the the three weeks between the preakness / bemont.

perfect example, take smarty jones and big brown. both have pretty pedestrain pedigrees, at least at the time it was thought so smarty jones was by a sire named elusive quality who at the time was a new sire from australia though he ran in the US and no one really new anything about him but it turned m out he was a great sire. he is also the sire of quality road who would have been odds on had he ran in the mine that bird derby but had a quarter crack, and he sired ravens pass who won the 08 breeders cup classic at santa anita. anyway my point is, at the time smarty joneswas racing elusive quality was a 10k sire ("now it's about 80k).

anyway none of that is really importtant i am just trying to establish that t the time neither had world class pedigrees. smarty jones was undefeated going into the derby, won the derby won the preakness. the morning of the belmont they sold half of smarty jones to three chimney's farm for 19 million dollars and kept the other half. he ran in the belmont and came in 2nd that was his last race, but his stud de hl was already done before the belmont. the first year at stud they were charging 100k per live foal.

big brown, was undefeated going into the derby, won, was undefeated going into the belmont, came in last in the belmont. however big brown ran 2more times and won both races, but he was clearly not the same horse (steriods), he wasn't demolishing horses anymore. he retired in october right before the classic and had no stud deal in place.

the same farm that bought smarty jones bought big brown.. in the neighboorhood of 22 million for the entire horse though i'm not sure on the exacts. I do know the exact price per live foal becuase i called TC myself beucase i was interested in him, it was 65k.. 35% less than smarty jones.

and ****, big brown had a grade 1 win going into the derby the florida derby. smarty jones won the arkansas derby which at the time was not a grade 1.

so my piont is, you want your deal done before the belmont if you cang et it. if not you better be damn sure you are going to win it. that is why he was scratched.

Good points. Very possible.

 

[backbreaker]

actually what i have been told about IHA at stallion/studl gand this person would know, is that the itnerest here in america really isn't what you think it would. they aren't beating down the door to get to him and most likely will go to japan before it's all said and done.

it's his bloodlines.. they aren't particuarlly fashionable here in america, but they are very fashionable in japan. sunday silence won the derby and preakness and because he was by a sire called halo who was not very well thought of kentucky farms wanted nothing to do with him. he went to japan and became the best stallion in japanese history and sired a japanese triple crown winner (deep impact) and one of the best stallions in the world.

lol the horse that just won the woody stephens,a sprint was 50 to 1 in the derby and he toyed them today. ha no business in the derbyd

lol this is for anyone who ever tries to tell me i don't know what the fvck i'm talking about.


http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/ra...have-another-sold-for-stud-duty-in-japan.aspx

 

[Gaucho]

Black Caviar in the Diamond Jubilee in several hours, bring it on!

There is talk now if she wins today at Ascot, she will end up going to Hong Kong to win the global sprint challenge, which will be the first to do so since Takeover Target.