IL is the biggest mystery

[becker]

Ok, guys and gals, this last experiment that I had with this HB10 seems to be coming to an end, at least in my eyes. It was fun while it lasted, and it sort of reinforces some theories on this board, especially the ones that say that an HB10 isn't worth it, and it's probably more fulfiling to go for an HB7 or 8 who you have better chemistry with.

The thing I seemed to learn from this is that perhaps the most annoying thing is that a girl feels they have to let a guy off easy. Forget all this bruised ego crap, more women just need to be up front and just reject and move on. Clean and simple.

Has anyone here had a girl who was interested in them do stuff that made it seem like they weren't interested, and what did they do?

 

[xblitz44x]

Becker,

I've noticed that a lot of girls keep their distance in the beginning because they don't know how to handle themselves. They don't want to show too much interest and "fvck it up" themselves, just like we always try to do. So you might have a few flake on dates and things like that. We DJs, from being hurt before, misperceive those things as "she's not interested" and we NEXT them before giving them a shot before they have a chance to bruise our egos.

However if you pay attention, and keep your ego detached you can just let things go and have fun with it. Girls are going to cancel dates, and say things that don't make your ego dance around, but just relax. It's all part of the dynamic. And if you look close enough you'll see right though it and it's kinda cute to see her go through all that work.

 

[becker]

xblitz,

What you say is certainly comforting to know, especially since I sort of saw it the same way. I hope that what you say is the case most of the time for most people on this board who have gone through this.

I personally haven't gotten this response before, maybe because I didn't spend my time chasing the cream-of-the-crop women before. I sort of went straight by how well we got along. I wanted to see for myself what these physical beauties had to offer. It may be my own experience, but it seems to me that this sort of behavior doesn't happen as much with say an HB7 as much as an HB10. Either this, or else the HB10 is just genuinely disinterested more often rather than just playing games.

See, I know what you mean though, and I think that it seems a little more obvious when a girl is actually struggling to prevent screwing things up with you, as opposed to a girl who is genuinely disinterested. I'm assuming that a truly disinterested girl will just flat out reject you bluntly rather than dance around the issue or try to make up for flaking on you. I don't know, man, it's not easy to tell.

Finally, during this last lunch I had with this girl, we were talking about jealous BFs and stuff like that, and I flat out told her that I was not like that and I don't get jealous and possessive. I think I came off as very un-needy. Also, after lunch, I walked her back to the office, she thanked me for lunch, and I told her I'd be around in the next few days or so. After that, the only time I got to talk with her was two days later, when I asked her how she liked lunch and whether she could keep Saturday open for me, to which she replied "yes". After that, the semi-cold shoulder stuff started. This is all new to me, so I'm not sure how to handle it.

 

[xblitz44x]

"Either this, or else the HB10 is just genuinely disinterested more often rather than just playing games."

Generally speaking, the hotter the girl, the more insecure. I know that it's not very effective to generalize but it's been a pattern for me. If she's hot, the more she feels the need to depend on games because the bigger her ego is. Also, if a girl has been hurt recently, same thing, she uses the distance as a self-defense mechanism for keeping herself unattached.

"After that, the semi-cold shoulder stuff started."

Which stuff? Make sure that your ego is attached. If not you're going to project. Use me as an example. A girl a loved dumped me before, I was hurt, felt deceived. couldn't trust for a long time. So every girl after her that, if she did something like cancel a date, or didn't call me when she said, I wrote it off immediately as "she's not interested, NEXT". I was doing everything in my power to not get hurt and because of that I started fvcking up perfectly healthy, solid relationships.

 

[ManOMan]

Becker

you can do whatever works for you, but you seem to be breaking alot of basic rules from this site

let me see

Finally, during this last lunch I had with this girl, we were talking about jealous BFs and stuff like that, and I flat out told her that I was not like that and I don't get jealous and possessive.


** Qualifying ** you are implicitly telling the girl "Hey! iM BETTER THAN other guys! give me a chance and see??" (this is how women see your words)


I think I came off as very un-needy. Also, after lunch, I walked her back to the office, she thanked me for lunch,

**you bought her lunch??** when you mix genuine interest in a girl, with trying to buy them with gifts and paying for food, you are pretty much saying "I will buy your affection"

do you buy guy friends lunch?

and I told her I'd be around in the next few days or so.

**What happened to challenge???** why are you so available to her?

After that, the only time I got to talk with her was two days later, when I asked her how she liked lunch and whether she could keep Saturday open for me, to which she replied "yes".

** SUPPLICATION **

Why are you sooo available for her on Saturday?? and why are you begging her to commit a saturday to you? why ask her about how lunch was? it sounds as if you are gauging her IL in you based on you buying her lunch.



After that, the semi-cold shoulder stuff started. This is all new to me, so I'm not sure how to handle it.


Im no DJ, nor an expert, but after reading this site for a while, I notice you have put her on a pedestal, and making it seem as if you are honored to be in her presence(sp?), when it should be the other way around.

I notice supplicating (new word for me LOL), turns women off, especially when its so formal and obvious.

The only advice I can give you is to stop acting like she is the gold, and you are just a peasant gold miner.

switch the scenario around a bit, throw her off, flirt with other women, do the "hot"/"cold" technique, and stop talking to her like you are TRYING to win her over

peace

 

[becker]

Good point about the distancing as self-defense. I notice that too, and this girl right now certainly has been hurt before, so perhaps that may be it. I'm not going to write off the possibility that she just might not be interested though, given that after all, she's an HB10. If she were less than that, I would probably feel differently.

As for the "stuff", it's pretty minor, and as much as I hate to read into things, this behavior took me by surprise a little, but now that I think about it, this girl is sort of like that with everyone. Who knows. Probably the most disturbing thing so far that she's done is that one time she was leaving from work, and she passed by a room where I was working, and she knew I was there, but she just passed by and didn't say a word, and just left. All she had to do was turn and say "goodbye" at least. Not doing so seemed to say so much more than anything else she's done.

Anyways, I am looking forward to Monday when I can confront her with all this and get down to the bottom of everything. If it's not going to work out, I'd like to know for sure so I can move on and not waste any more time.

 

[becker]

Originally posted by ManOMan
Becker

you can do whatever works for you, but you seem to be breaking alot of basic rules from this site

let me see

Finally, during this last lunch I had with this girl, we were talking about jealous BFs and stuff like that, and I flat out told her that I was not like that and I don't get jealous and possessive.


** Qualifying ** you are implicitly telling the girl "Hey! iM BETTER THAN other guys! give me a chance and see??" (this is how women see your words)


I think I came off as very un-needy. Also, after lunch, I walked her back to the office, she thanked me for lunch,

**you bought her lunch??** when you mix genuine interest in a girl, with trying to buy them with gifts and paying for food, you are pretty much saying "I will buy your affection"

do you buy guy friends lunch?

and I told her I'd be around in the next few days or so.

**What happened to challenge???** why are you so available to her?

After that, the only time I got to talk with her was two days later, when I asked her how she liked lunch and whether she could keep Saturday open for me, to which she replied "yes".

** SUPPLICATION **

Why are you sooo available for her on Saturday?? and why are you begging her to commit a saturday to you? why ask her about how lunch was? it sounds as if you are gauging her IL in you based on you buying her lunch.



After that, the semi-cold shoulder stuff started. This is all new to me, so I'm not sure how to handle it.


Im no DJ, nor an expert, but after reading this site for a while, I notice you have put her on a pedestal, and making it seem as if you are honored to be in her presence(sp?), when it should be the other way around.

I notice supplicating (new word for me LOL), turns women off, especially when its so formal and obvious.

The only advice I can give you is to stop acting like she is the gold, and you are just a peasant gold miner.

switch the scenario around a bit, throw her off, flirt with other women, do the "hot"/"cold" technique, and stop talking to her like you are TRYING to win her over

peace

Holy sh*t, ManOMan, you have a pretty darn good point there. It may be the way you sort of broke up my post into pieces, but you definitely pointed out some potential problems. Before I go further though, I have to tell you that I'm Mr. Rulebreaker around here, and so far, I haven't had problems with doing what I'm doing. I am convinced that part of it has to do with the fact that I'm dealing with a seriously hot girl here, and the rules must be bent a little bit.

The "qualifying" part that you talked about above sort of came out wrong (usually on these message boards, it's difficult to express exactly what happened). Basically, I told her that I had a jealous and possessive GF before so I knew how she felt. I told her that it can get to be overbearing after a while. Now that I look at it, it may not have been the best thing to get into, but as I said, I usually don't think too much before I speak.

I bought her lunch because I asked her out, and it was the first time we went out together. No big deal, and I didn't treat it like it was some big sacrifice on my part. I do buy guy friends lunch, but usually it's like we'll take turns treating each other.

Good point about the challenge thing. I wasn't THAT available. I didn't even see her the next day. Then the day after that, I spoke to her for 5 minutes. If anything, I came off as less interested than I probably should have. To me, showing too little interest is as much a kiss of death as showing too much. I mean, when you like a girl would you rather she not pay any attention to you or at least show that she wants to be around you more?

As for the Saturday thing and asking her about lunch, it was more small talk than anything. I just threw it in, and asked her "what did you think of the place?" and she said she liked it a lot, and I said "cool". Then, I told her to keep Saturday open for me, and she said ok. I never asked her, I told her. I think my only mistake here is not telling her that if she didn't want to do anything, she needs to let me know, and I'll tell you why I have had so much success with this. First off, it must be stated a certain way in a certain tone to be effective. Essentially I'm saying "look, no games, if you don't want to do anything with me, you're not going to hurt my feelings". It shows that you don't need her to agree to go out with you and makes it clear that you are not all dependent on her.

Anyways, thanks for the advice, it was very helpful, and sort of allowed me to look at things from a different perspective. I definitely think you had a great point, and I'm going to try to avoid giving off too much supplication and qualification vibes.

 

[OpenMind]

Becker, my advice to you is just to forget her for a while. Do not confuse this with NEXTING her, I mean just forget her and let her think about things for a while.

In my past experiences, especially with HBs, when a woman gave me the cold shoulder it was just because I became too available. If you try to forget her, you can let her chase you and initiate a date with you. That keeping the Saturday thing open for you was just supplicating, where your best bet at that point would have been to just sit back and let nature take its course. If she had high interest she would have initiated the next move. IMO she would have but for now just keep your distance and let her chase.....

remember, women like to chase, not be chased...... good luck!

 

[danziger]

What OpenMind said is spot on... don't next her but put her to the back of your mind and go do something/someone else for a while. Let her chase you!

I read your other thread about this, is she still dealing with the ex-BF crap? Better not to be around when that **** is still happening, you've shown your hand now so sit back for a while. I was in a very similar situation a few years ago and got HB10 by showing initial interest then backing right off, pretty soon after she came chasing...and because I wasn't around while BF troubles were happening I didn't become an emotional tampon for her...the numerous AFCs who chase HB8-10s did that for her.

good luck with it!

 

[becker]

Here's the main problem guys, and thanks for the advice.

Basically, my feeling is that before you just make yourself unavailable and let her chase, you need to give her a reason to want to chase you. This means that you can't just sit back looking pretty and expect her to just want to chase you.

Usually, it seems more the case that you had some good experiences with her, such as what today would have been had my plans gone through. Then it seems like if I became too available, I could sort of back off and she would have some reason to want to be around me (mainly that we had a such great times together).

Am I wrong here?

 

[danziger]

If you are finding it difficult to get another date with her this is how I'd go about it...

How's your reputation at work? (she works with you I remember you saying) Get the whole "He's a great/hot guy" thing happening from her female colleagues (harder with the older c0ckblocker you mentioned) and go out with some other women and make sure that she knows about it (slip it into casual conversation with other workmates and say how much fun you had)...it's a fine line to tread but that's how I'd go about it. If she's interested then she'll let you know, if not you'll have other women to date. Competition is always a good catalyst!

This may sound like a risky plan but there are other HB10s around (you will find them!) and the work/exBF stuff is something to keep aware of...just don't fall into the one-itis trap with her.

No matter how you go about it you'll have more experience for next time...and regardless of how much advice people will give you in a forum like this there is no substitute for experience...

 

[Phoebus]

Games

Just seems like a situation where you are both playing games with each other. Each of you is waiting for the other to "break." She is doing the same thing you are trying to do (keep in mind all "DJ" techniques are is what women do by default). Been there, done that. So, you have two options:

1) Break. Be "AFC." Tell her what you want and how you feel. Likely to turn her off. You lose.

2) Keep waiting for her to break. This would put you in control. Downside, it might never happen, then you both lose.

As Anti-Dump pointed out, for any strategy to work, the other side has to be defenseless (and in truth, if she doesn't let her defense down, she isn't truly interested).

In the same situation (which has happened more than once), I went with option 2. People would tell me "It is obivious you both like each other... Why not give in to her?" Well, from experience, relationships don't last long if the woman is the "leader." Thus it is impossible for the man to give in. But, if the woman doesn't, there will be no relationship... Either way, it is likely to be a no win situation.

 

[becker]

Originally posted by danziger
If you are finding it difficult to get another date with her this is how I'd go about it...

How's your reputation at work? (she works with you I remember you saying) Get the whole "He's a great/hot guy" thing happening from her female colleagues (harder with the older c0ckblocker you mentioned) and go out with some other women and make sure that she knows about it (slip it into casual conversation with other workmates and say how much fun you had)...it's a fine line to tread but that's how I'd go about it. If she's interested then she'll let you know, if not you'll have other women to date. Competition is always a good catalyst!

This may sound like a risky plan but there are other HB10s around (you will find them!) and the work/exBF stuff is something to keep aware of...just don't fall into the one-itis trap with her.

No matter how you go about it you'll have more experience for next time...and regardless of how much advice people will give you in a forum like this there is no substitute for experience...

Danziger,

Your advice is really good, and something that I actually did before I really made any moves on this girl. I sort of flirted with a lot of the women in the office, innocently, and word sort of spread around. Then I sort of said hi to her, but didn't really get too involved with talking to her.

I kept this up for a while, and eventually I started to talk to her more. After talking to her more for a while, I asked her to lunch. During this time though, there was another guy in the office that was around her all the time. I never got the full story on this, but as far as I'm concerned, he seemed like an emotional tampon, but at the same time, she seemed to enjoy being around him, so who knows. I'd be sitting around with them and he'd be talking about getting other women and stuff and she'd hit him, sort of playfully, but he seemed like he was trying too hard to be cool.

Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here. I'm going to maybe back off for a while this week. I don't know if I should just back off and not talk to her at all. I sort of was looking forward to asking her about what the heck happened today, but at the same time, danziger's plan sounds good too.

What do you guys think I should do?

 

[Panther]

"I am convinced that part of it has to do with the fact that I'm dealing with a seriously hot girl here, and the rules must be bent a little bit. "

Does anyone else notice the problem here??

Isn't it the case that with really hot chicks, which are used to having lots of AFCs chasing them all the time, it's even more important to stick to the rules? Or even, use the top-secret anti-HB weapon of neg-hitting to drop their b!tch shield?

Try to knock the girl off her pedestral in your mind, and treat her as if she wasn't anything special.

ThePanther

 

[Craig Reeves]

I have said this for the 15th time already....

LOOKS AREN'T EVERYTHING!!!

Just because a woman happens to be a "HB10", doesn't mean that she's just NOT going have as a good personality as an "HB7". THe reason I say this is because women aren't running around with tags saying what "rating" they are, so it's all peceptive anyway.

Second of all, women do not just look in the mirror and say, "Hey, I'm beautiful, so I'm going to act THIS way around guys." Not all beautiful women have biatch shields. In fact, I know more average women that have biatch shields than beautiful ones. Biatch shields come from social problems, not being beautiful or being hit on by guys (beautiful women are so used to being hit on by guys, that if anything, they've grown USED to it so why would they be stand-offish or bothered by it?).

NEVER TREAT A WOMAN DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE SHE IS BEAUTIFUL.

You should treat a "HB10" EXACTLY the same way as you would treat a "HB7". You should never look at a woman, judge the book by it's cover, and treat her accordingly.....NO WAY. Just because she's who you may think is a "HB10", does not at all mean that you should kiss her ass, treat her like a queen, or basically let her walk all over you. NOR does it mean you should TRY EXTRA HARD to follow every rule and not come off as a weakling or an AFC. So don't you try "neg-hitting" and stuff like that, simply because she is beautiful, and INTIMIDATES YOU. You only do that stuff when DOES SOMETHING TO SHOW that she is stuck up or has a biatch sheild. But until then, you treat her the same as you would treat an average looking woman, and vice-versa.

Some guys just need to stop letting the intimidation of a beautiful woman fool them into thinking that she's a snob.

This is AFC thinking because a hot girl turns them down - they want to blame her LOOKS instead of themselves, even though an ugly woman could treat a guy the same way, even worse.

 

[becker]

Originally posted by Panther
"I am convinced that part of it has to do with the fact that I'm dealing with a seriously hot girl here, and the rules must be bent a little bit. "

Does anyone else notice the problem here??

Isn't it the case that with really hot chicks, which are used to having lots of AFCs chasing them all the time, it's even more important to stick to the rules? Or even, use the top-secret anti-HB weapon of neg-hitting to drop their b!tch shield?

Try to knock the girl off her pedestral in your mind, and treat her as if she wasn't anything special.

ThePanther

I tend to think that with hotter women, I just don't really play by too many rules. I try to let things flow a little more. The problem with this girl is that she has no b!tch shield, and if she did, I broke it down a while ago. She already went out with me.

I also don't treat the girl like she's on a pedestal. The only problem probably comes from the fact that I'm basically telling her that if she doesn't want to do anything, just tell me, because I don't want to waste my time around a girl who has no interest being around me. This might come off as desperation or whatever, but I'm not trying to even do anything except save myself from the hassle of dealing with disinterested women, if that's the case. I don't know, maybe I should reconsider what I'm doing.

 

[Eileen]

Becker - perhaps you should change your strategy.

It shouldn't be this much work. Or at very least the work shouldn't feel so much like work.

Instead of trying to dig out of her if she's interested or not, decide if YOU are really interested or not. If the girl, no matter how hot, isn't giving you the kind of attention you think you deserve she's really not all that and not worthy of your time.

Besides, women like that are notoriously rotten in the sac. Think about it. She lacks enthusiasm. That's a personality trait that carries over to every aspect of a person’s life. I bet she eats salads with tasteless dressing as well.

I wouldn't waste my time.

 

[becker]

Eileen,

I'm definitely reconsidering everything, because I'm sort of tired of the pursuit already. It was mostly a superficial thing from the start anyways, even though she's a sweet gal and would make a cool friend. Too many issues for my tastes though.

I want to sort of make it clear to her that I won't be doing that much pursuing since it seems like based on her actions, she isn't that interested. Last time I did this, she went out with me, so who the heck knows.

We're also pretty different people; she's sort of a closet wild girl in ways (I mean, tongue ring, tattoo on the small of her back, numerous ear piercings) and I'm sort of more clean with a slight edge that I don't display unless people closest to me. She looks like a clean girl still though, not some gothic chick or some strangeness like that. She is extremely feminine, and I guess you'd just call her sexy. I was never a big believer that opposites attract too, so this sort of goes against what I've always believed in.

 

[Eileen]

There goes my salad theory ...

 

[becker]

Originally posted by Eileen
There goes my salad theory ...

So what theory do you have now?