If you only remember ONE thing about dealing with women....

[grinder]

The self-discipline needed to walk away conflicts with our desire to stick with what we perceive is our 'sure thing', because we've met with her intimate approval previously. When you go back, out of sentimentality or sexual desire, you place yourself into a position of having to qualify yourself to her. This is never the position a Man wants to be in, a woman should always qualify herself to him - this is the PRIZE mentality. You lose all power because it's her approval you're striving for, and this is made all the more complex because you were acceptable and then rejected later; she knows enough about you and any mystery or challenge you represented before is stripped away.

Great thread. Powerful sh*t.

So very very few men have the disciple to pull this off it really does shock the woman when you do it.

As a matter of fact, it works so well that if you are actually nexting someone it raises their IL so much its easy to cave to them and let them creep back into your life.

This is one of those “cornerstone” DJ power-tools. This is not the same as the 15 lessons. Everyone has their top 5 list.

For me it’s 1) Scarcity (this walkaway), 2) Indifference, 3) Always have a backup woman, 4) Assume the sale (assume they like you), and 5) Assume all is well (up to a point).

 

[jophil28]

I agree. Part of the problem with playing is that you get sucked into her reality. This is specifically at the sacrifice of your own personal progress. Investment into a relationship can only be cashed out within that specific relationship. Investment of yourself attracts universally and therefore is infinitely more valuable.

This advice alone is worth the price of admission.

 

[jophil28]

I don't think they love closure as much as they can't stand the fact that you are unwilling to give them validation one last time.

Is this strategy (walking away ) so successful because it is really the most potent rejection of a woman that a man can perform. It implies, perhaps, that she does not measure up- that she does not meet your standards and she has slipped so far down in your estimation and affection that you are just discarding her by turning your back without so much as a "goodbye" ..

Not yelling, arguing or scolding also probably leaves her bewildered into the bargain.

Walking away is cold and harsh abandonment - perhaps THAT is why it is so powerful. Abandonment and rejection, to a woman is worse than death it seems.

 

[squirrels]

Is this strategy (walking away ) so successful because it is really the most potent rejection of a woman that a man can perform.

No...it's successful because you stop wasting energy trying to obtain something that you really don't want and instead devote your energy to something that makes YOU happy, rather than using it to make HER happy.

Again...being "DJ" is all about YOU. If you look at this as some post describing some "tactic" you can use to win the admiration or respect of women, you're missing the point entirely.



That woman you reject may start calling you up again, trying to re-seduce you to make herself feel loved. But as SOON as you return the gesture, she's validated again and will pull even further away. When you reject a woman, you REJECT her. You don't just set her aside and hope she warms up to you...she's DONE. You don't have TIME or ENERGY in your life to deal with people who aren't with the program. It's not that you hate them, or are angry or bitter...they're just not an effective object of your attention.

This is NOT a Don Juan tactic. This is NOT a hard-to-get routine that's being discussed in this thread. THIS IS BEING DONE. Done with being a slave to the whims of an inferior person just because she has a vag!na. Done ignoring what YOU want and wasting your energy trying to please someone you don't even WANT to spend time with. Done hanging around a girl because your poor ego won't let you admit that you couldn't make it work out. Done being afraid to fail, and thus afraid to learn.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Let me continue here with a case study I counseled a friend on personally about 4 years ago. I have a very good friend Ray that I hired and work with. He's had the benefit of my personally having unplugged him from the Matrix and he's been a good student (for lack of a better term), but in becoming so he went through a transformation process. Like most guys fed on a lifetime of feminine conditoning he patronizingly accepted what I was teaching him, but privately still clung to his AFC mentalities. That is, until the turning point came.

Ray had entertained a flirtatious "friendship" with a semi-attractive PR girl in our department for a while, unbeknownst to me. He knew what I's said about LJBF rejections and "playing friends" with women, so he left me out of the loop on the whole affair. He had "dated" her on several occasions, but beyond the infrequent "kiss while drunk" she kept him at arms distance using the standard fillibuster techniques women classically use - "I'm not ready for a relationship", "I'm not looking for a BF", "We're good friends", etc. She did however keep him in her 'attention web' with little carrots of affection for him to pull her cart for about 3 or 4 months.

This all came to a head when one night she had to do some work with Aaron Lewis (yes, from Staind) while he was doing his solo acoustic act at our casino. To make a long story short, the PR girl ended up buzzed on this night and ƒucked Aaron Lewis' manager in a classical situation of right-guy, right-environment, right-conditions. Her mistake was in confessing her actions to Ray who'd felt betrayed considering all the investment he'd put into doing what he thought was the right way to go about things. Here was one guy on one night who she ƒucked in a moment of chemical reaction because "he was hot, I was drunk and one thing led to another,.." versus his 3-4 month personal investment.

This was of course when he consulted me and informed me of everything leading up to it, only now he was at an impass. She appologized profusely to him and held out (once again) the olive branch of a LJBF rejection. He asked me what he should say, and it was at this point he took the initiative to tell her "no, we can't 'just be friends'." He did what I advised him to and he walked away from a woman for the first time in his life. This is when all hell broke loose for her. She'd never been met with this response before and all the cards went straight into Ray's hands. She would consistently 'bump into him' at bars or events to "have another talk", she did a complete 180 in her attitude with him all in an effort to "be his friend."

Now I'm exceptionally proud of Ray because, unlike most guys finding the true power of a takeaway, he stuck with it rather than being contented with her chasing him and then giving into the LJBF. He had actually learned a valuable tool that he still uses now - the power of the takeaway. In addition he also came to understand the principle of understanding a woman, not by what she says, but by what she does - he learned the importance of reading behavior.

Of course after about 6 or 8 months she stopped pursuing him "to be friends" and he has talked to her in the interim years, but the frame of their discourse has changed. She has respect for him that she never had when he was the pursuer and never would've had if he'd surrendered to another LJBF.

 

[WestCoaster]

This all came to a head when one night she had to do some work with Aaron Lewis (yes, from Staind) while he was doing his solo acoustic act at our casino. To make a long story short, the PR girl ended up buzzed on this night and ƒucked Aaron Lewis' manager in a classical situation of right-guy, right-environment, right-conditions. Her mistake was in confessing her actions to Ray who'd felt betrayed considering all the investment he'd put into doing what he thought was the right way to go about things. Here was one guy on one night who she ƒucked in a moment of chemical reaction because "he was hot, I was drunk and one thing led to another,.." versus his 3-4 month personal investment.

Oh man, what a great story. The quote above is just typical of what women do. A gal I knew and dated a little, but she was playing me and about 3/4 guys at the time did the same stuff. She went to Vegas with a 3-time married/sleep-with-anyone in the planet friend. I knew she was going down there to get laid but my "friend" acted like she was above this. Sure enough, she jumps into bed with some fighter pilot she met on the dance floor. They had a few days fling and he dumped her once she got home ... she couldn't believe it! She tells me, "I'm not like that, I usually don't do things like that." I almost said, "Nah, I knew she were going down there to take the high hard one" but I held off.

Women do what they're going to do and excuse it later. This has been a long lesson for me to learn. I used to get blindsided by these acts and sadly, I wasn't too different than Rollo's friend. This board REALLY helped me.

Women will jump into bed with whomever and excuse it as the climate and situation ... "I was drunk, he was hot, I was lonely, the devil made me do it," ... blah, blah, blah. If a guy does it, he's scum; if a woman does it, she's "finding herself."

Women do what they want to do and men sadly put up with it. The AFCs on the planet keep this dating power structure in the women's hands.

 

[jophil28]

No...it's successful because you stop wasting energy trying to obtain something that you really don't want and instead devote your energy to something that makes YOU happy, rather than using it to make HER happy.

Again...being "DJ" is all about YOU. If you look at this as some post describing some "tactic" you can use to win the admiration or respect of women, you're missing the point entirely.
.

I never refered to 'walking away ' as a "tactic" as Squirrels put it.
It was never my understanding that a Takeaway is a slick manuever to bring her to heel. It was always clear to me that withdrawing is a final statement to ME ( and the woman) that this relationship is not serving my interests and never will.
My post was merely my thinking out loud about the power aspect of it...

 

[squirrels]

I never refered to 'walking away ' as a "tactic" as Squirrels put it.
It was never my understanding that a Takeaway is a slick manuever to bring her to heel. It was always clear to me that withdrawing is a final statement to ME ( and the woman) that this relationship is not serving my interests and never will.
My post was merely my thinking out loud about the power aspect of it...

Gotcha. My point was that if you're REALLY walking away, and not just using it as a "maneuver" or "tactic", then you don't CARE if she heels or not. The girl is someone else's problem now.

To go against for its own sake,
you're still controlled by the course that the other {wo}man takes.

 

[STR8UP]

Love the story Rollo.

I think we need to make a distinction here.

When I posted this I was referring to "walking away" in a general sense, as in, it's not necessarily a permanent thing.

It can be permanent, and lots of times it should be. But sometimes it is an effective tool for putting a b!tch in check when she crosses the line with a less serious offense.

Call it a tactic if you will, but it works.

Point is, 99% of the time it is infinitely more effective to make a woman experience ramifications caused by her actions rather than try to yell at her or explain what she did wrong.

A woman is pretty much incapable of shouldering blame. No matter how right you are and how wrong she is, she will NEVER see it unless there is a consequence to her actions that hits her where she is most vulnerable, and that is taking away her need for attention and validation.

I have never never NEVER had any success "training" a woman with words.

I hate to make the comparison, but it's the same as training an animal. Words are merely commands that mean nothing unless supported with a punishment/reward system. She's a good girl, she gets to see you. She's a bad girl, she gets to sit there in time out and think about what she has done while you go on about your life.

I have never, ever had a woman apologize to me unless i withdrew my attention. NEVER.

 

[joekerr31]

I have never never NEVER had any success "training" a woman with words.

str8 - this isn't directed at you, jsut a general comment to your post....


its not possible to train a woman with words. the men who try typically escalate things to physical abuse in time. the only valid option is to remove yourself from her as punishment - take away the prize.

the other reason its impossible to train most women with words is pretty simple to understand. always put yourself in the other persons shoes. understand how they see the world and how they are processing information.

remember with women they are always communicating covertly and their primary method of getting what they want is emotional manipulation.

when you try to explain things to them using words they simply see it as verbal manipulation.

sounds strange doesn't it? you'd think they would assess what you are saying and weigh whether it is logical / rational or not. if it is, then they would say 'ahh, i see. i wont do that anymore, i see how its wrong."

but they aren't assessing what you are saying in a logical sense. they simply perceive it as you attempting to gain the upper hand through verbal manipulation (they assume that you are basically doing what they do, just in a slightly different form). and they usually volley back with their own methods of emotional manipulation.

but when you walk away, when you SHUT IT DOWN, it hits them like a mack truck 'oh sh*t! i've REALLY f*cked up here. guys DO NOT walk away from you unless they are REALLY upset. they always try to convince you how what you did was bad, but they DONT leave. i really really crossed hte line this time."

at which point she will either say to herself 'ah f*ck him. who needs him' or she will come scrurrying back and apologize and throw herself on the hot coals to prove she will behave.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I have never never NEVER had any success "training" a woman with words.

I hate to make the comparison, but it's the same as training an animal. Words are merely commands that mean nothing unless supported with a punishment/reward system. She's a good girl, she gets to see you. She's a bad girl, she gets to sit there in time out and think about what she has done while you go on about your life.

I have never, ever had a woman apologize to me unless i withdrew my attention. NEVER.

Exactly. A lot of guys think I'm cruel when I say that they need to consider women from a behavioral conditioning perspective. Reinforce desired behavior and remove rewards for undesired behavior. It's classical conditioning used to modify behavior. Mystery and a few other PUAs stumbled upon this without knowing it's psychological foundation when they developed the Takeaway technique to counter LMR in a sarge, but it has far greater applications than just this.

It's for this reason a guy should never give women gifts until AFTER she's had (good) sex with him. The flower come after a good night of passion - that's a reward, a reinforcer - never before the act of intimacy - this is a bribe or an obligation. Phone calls are few and far between, this is a reinforcer as a prompt for desired behavior. There are many ways to do this; you just have to be Man enough and confident enough to act on it. The reason words don't work is because, coming from a man, the communication is direct and OVERT, while actions can be COVERT and inspire doubt.

I should also add it's vital that Men learn this, because it is a woman's standard default to modify men's behavior since they hold a time proven reward for desired behavior - sex. This comes naturally for them, it doesn't take long for them to master the idea, and is thus the best agency they possess in relation to their looks - and to some guys, looks become less of a factor once she's ensured she is his sole source of sex and he's dependent upon her for it.

 

[WestCoaster]

I don't believe in that women's intuition crapola, mostly because if they had it, they wouldn't date and marry so many losers.

That said, women are VERY aware of the social reward and punish system as well as the supply and demand schemata that I explained in an earlier post.

Women in heavy male populated areas know this, thus they develop arrogant attitudes (because they're always hit on) and they call the shots. The supply is greater than the demand. Women in highly competitive areas -- SoCal, Hawaii, metro areas with more women than men -- know this and behave to fit the population demographic. For the most part (not always) women are nicer and more approachable in highly competitive areas.

The gal who couldn't believe her LJBF guy removed the attention after her fling with the music manager? She was acting like this in the first place because most likely SHE COULD. Why could she? Because supply for her attention (many men) was great. Rollo said she was OK looking, yet some music manager wanted to bang her. Why? Because HE COULD and because he didn't have any better options.

The heavy supply of AFC's in this country has really given women the power. My friend who is going through a divorce right now from a very sub-par/overweight woman with a kid (not marketable in my book) will see his ex-wifey find a guy. Why? She lives in male dominated Montana -- no competition. In L.A., she's be single mommy to the end of time.

 

[azanon]

I should also add it's vital that Men learn this, because it is a woman's standard default to modify men's behavior since they hold a time proven reward for desired behavior - sex. This comes naturally for them, it doesn't take long for them to master the idea, and is thus the best agency they possess in relation to their looks - and to some guys, looks become less of a factor once she's ensured she is his sole source of sex and he's dependent upon her for it.

So true. My wife claims to be turned on by me cleaning the house. If she comes in the door and I happen to be, say, vacuuming the carpet (something I don't regularly do, she usually does it), she literally gets turned on by that, and sometimes will even want to get busy right then and there before I even finish.

In my defense, I never actually do any chores like that for sex. I can get sex anyway, but still she tries (and does) "reward" my behavior whether I want her to or not. It does seem to be a genuine expression though even though I'm suspicious she's just "reward gaming" me.

It does make me wonder though; should I try to counter that behavior somehow, or should I be concerned about it? I mean, i get sex anyway most of the time that I want it, but she does obviously try to reward behaviors with sex too and, admittingly, she's more passionate "during" too.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I don't believe in that women's intuition crapola, mostly because if they had it, they wouldn't date and marry so many losers.

:crackup: I'm remembering this one. The next time a woman starts spewing the women's intuition BS, I'm going to say this. This, can not be refuted, there is not argument to top this.

With regards to the walkaway, it only seems to work if the woman has any sort of emotion towards you, ie, if she is indifferent it has no effect.

A few weeks ago I did a walkaway from a gal I was dating, because it was a power struggle with her from the beginning. I go so frustrated that, I just disappeared.

The funny thing is, I think she knows about the walkaway. She mentioned that guys have disappeared on her before (red flag?), so I think she know's the game, but wants to hold the power card. Anyway, I ended up doing the same thing and nexted her, and didn't look back.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Ah, but the real question, AZANON; is her desire genuine or motivated by establishing a reward structure for you? I would assume at one time in your past you had sex with her equally as passionate when you were dating or perhaps right after you were married that had nothing to do with you doing domestic chores? You were hot enough in your own respect to prompt this desire in her then, so what has changed that would make your gender role reversal become a prompt for her to be genuinely aroused?

Only 2 possiblities exist; one, she's "discovered" she genuinely gets off on seeing you in a (perceived) effeminate role while she enjoys being dominant, or two, she's reinforcing that behavior by racheting up the intensity of her desire in bed - or a combination of both.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Women DO NOT have "super powers".

If they did, Stan Lee would have made them ALL characters in his latest comic book...

 

[joekerr31]

The funny thing is, I think she knows about the walkaway. She mentioned that guys have disappeared on her before (red flag?), so I think she know's the game, but wants to hold the power card. Anyway, I ended up doing the same thing and nexted her, and didn't look back.

THIS is a problem that unfortunately cannot be fixed. some women have been SOOO pampered by AFCs that if you walk away she won't care. she would rather get rid of you and go get another guy who WILL let her bust his balls and take it.

in essence, she's pulled a reverse takeaway, hehe - your walking away from me? thats fine, then im walking away from you!

that's just life. and its good that you got loose of her anyway, because what was waiting in store for you was a relationship where she wore the pants.

i've said this before, for a lot of women their guy is just another pet, like their cat or dog. they aren't looking for a harmonous relationship of give and take - they simply want their needs met. these women arent overly particular about men, one will do almost as well as another.

when you walk on them, they simply go out and get another man. gotta respect their ruthlessness but at the same time remember that you did yourself a favor by cutting loose of a woman who isn't yet ready for a mature give and take relationship.

 

[joekerr31]

Women DO NOT have "super powers".

If they did, Stan Lee would have made them ALL characters in his latest comic book...

their super powers rest within the male brain.

if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound?

if theres no man around to admire, is a woman's *ss really that hot?

ANY power a woman has comes from the opinion men have of her.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Exactly, JOEKerr...


If a woman values YOU, then taking away your ATTENTION from her is the same as "giving" her KRYPTONITE.

 

[STR8UP]

Exactly. A lot of guys think I'm cruel when I say that they need to consider women from a behavioral conditioning perspective. Reinforce desired behavior and remove rewards for undesired behavior.

A lot of guys think it's cruel? Can you IMAGINE sitting in front of a woman, or worse yet, a group of women and proclaim that "The way to a healthy relationship with a woman is to condition her, to TRAIN her through rewards and punishments"?

I think I'm gonna try that next time one of my lady friends has a dinner party. It's usually about 5 girls and two guys. I'll be lucky to escape being beaten with the mashed potato spoon.

It sounds so crude and manipulative, yet it's one of the keys to a healthy, successful relationship.

If you leave it up to a woman unchecked to try to keep things in line, you end up with an emotional mess. A man MUST take the reigns. He MUST lead the woman to counter the emotional birds nest that she is entangled in.