If you only remember ONE thing about dealing with women....

[blueguy]

THIS IS NOT A WAY TO GET A GIRL TO LIKE, RESPECT, OR OTHERWISE ACKNOWLEDGE YOU. So stop treating it as such. It's not a "DJ tactic".

That's precisely what I said. Re-read it. I was replying to Azanon who suggested playing.

But I'll check the rest of what you wrote since it seemed to stir a lot of anger.

Nice summary Rollo.

 

[blueguy]

Who's the so-called "prize" here? If you are trying to win her recognition, even by making a power-play, then who is REALLY in charge of the situation?

I agree. Part of the problem with playing is that you get sucked into her reality. This is specifically at the sacrifice of your own personal progress. Investment into a relationship can only be cashed out within that specific relationship. Investment of yourself attracts universally and therefore is infinitely more valuable.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Cardinal Rule of Relationships
In any relationship, whether personal, business or familial, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

 

[STR8UP]

If a man were to dump a woman just for saying something stupid, the human race would never survive.

I agree with the other 2 reasons. A woman who would lie to you is someone who could cuckold you. A woman who wants to see other men is simply telling you the truth.

Notice how I said "walk away" and not "dump her". Two different things.

What I was talking about is withdrawing your attention and your emotional investment for a period of time. This might be for a day, it might be forever.

It depends upon the offense and what you want to get out of the relationship.

If I'm dealing with a chick I want or have as a fukk buddy, I will deal with her differently than a chick I want to eventually marry. All I have to ask myself is "Is it worth it? Am I getting what I want out of this relationship without having to give up too much?"

In any case, it works the same way. the best way to acknowledge poor behavior or anything that SHE knows could or should upset you is to NOT acknowledge it. She will KNOW she did something wrong, trust me. And it will eat at her 100x more than any amount of scolding will.

The chick I made reference to who I dated that still has unresolved issues with "us"......she said to me one day while apologizing after she got pi$$y the night before over me talking to another girl, she said "If I had known that you weren't going to react, I wouldn't have behaved in that way".

Can you say, "WHAT THE FUKK?????"

I still don't completely understand what she was trying to accomplish. I'm assuming that she just wanted to see SOME kind of passionate emotion from me, which would of course have turned her OFF, but it taught me that MY power to "take away" was greater than HER power to dish it out. Make sense?

I was a little more involved with this one, and as such her outbursts had put her on probation, which she knew, because after I walked away from her last little tirade, when she called me up to apologize the next day I calmly told her not to worry about it "because I know it will never happen again". Had I answered her calls that night and started reaming her, there is NO WAY she would have been able to see how she was acting like a bratty little girl. I would have never gotten an apology, and I would have been the "a$$hole" See how that works? Pretty fukked up, huh?

It's not right, it's not fair, but that's the way it is. You can't fight fire in a case like this. But you CAN step aside and let it burn until it runs out of fuel. If you acknowledge it, you're adding fuel. If you take it a step beyond that and try to fight it with words, you are stoking the coals. Get out of harms way and let it burn!

Now that I think about it I even used this tactic in the past when I was an AFC without realizing it.

I was seeing this chick for a short time who was prone to jealous outbursts. She would have her hissy fit and next time i would talk to her I would just pretend as if nothing had happened, and it used to drive her NUTS. She would comment on how I could just "go on as though nothing happened".

I retrospect I should have cut that off sooner rather than later, but at least looking back I can see I was at least on the right track by not giving her the satisfaction of rattling my cage.

 

[GtarPlayr73]

holy shit, STR8UP, your timing is amazing. I am still recovering from this exact phenomenon right now. As related in my latest thread, i could NOT walk away after getting the "thanks, but we're not compatible" email from that last date. And just as you said, i went from being a person of high value to an increasingly groveling and "boy-am-i-glad-i-rejected-him" tool. And to think that my original response to her was "Glad we are on the same page. Good luck". Yes, pride doesn't want to let go. But pride is a product of weakness and a lack of self-esteem.

The walk away rule is GOLDEN.

 

[azanon]

Walking is not always going to win the girl over. That's not its main point. By its very nature, it is not playing. Sometimes you can play the game and win over the girl with more effectiveness than walking (as walking can be perceived incorrectly), but oftentimes at the sacrifice of your own manhood. Its main effect is the clarity it causes inside of you

Yeah I realize all of this. Sometimes, I really DO want the girl; lets call a spade a spade. So that being said, if "just walking away" isn't the best move to that end, I will consider a slightly different, or modified approach. I'm more of an "ends" guy, and am less concerned about the means, if it gets the result I want. Any damage to my manhood is only known by me and her, and once I eventually get the power (which usually comes post sex), THEN I behave in such a way as to restore any self-dignity I might have lost getting to that point.

That's a chick-move. It's also a submissive move, because you're trying to work some thought into HER reality. A MAN controls his OWN reality, and when a woman starts to infect that reality, a man simply excludes her from it and shuts the door.

I acknowledged this in so many words. I realize i'm making things complicated by, on the one hand, having the rule book (meaning, don't do this), then saying sometimes you can play and win her game. Shutting her out and excluding her is fishing for black bass with the plastic worm; i'm not faulting you or anyone who does that because its the standard advise. I'm just saying one size doesn't fit all, IMO.

Again, my thesis point is this: Silence does speak a thousand words, and it is an excellent move in so many cases....... but there are other options. At least consider the other options and what you want to happen, is all I'm saying.

 

[azanon]

I'm fond of using this proverb (because I came up with it); Never root through the trash once you've dragged it to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it and you never really find what you were looking for. Guys who yell the loudest about "giving it one more chance" with an ex are often the ones with the least options themselves. Think of it in pragmatic terms; the time and investment you spend on trying to get back to where you were with an ex (which by definition is impossible) will never be equitable with developing and exploring new options. A new potential intimacy will always be time better spent than trying to reheat a previous relationship.

Nice thought, RT

 

[azanon]

I wish I saw this post around April 2005. It's tough to hear, but I still have unresolved issues about a particular ex, even though I'm dating an LTR girl that is 100 times better.

It's just how things end that kind of leads a bad taste in ones mouth and I was a mess when that girl broke up with me.

So what about the post would you have considered; "walking away" earlier before the situation worsened, or wrapping the ending up differently (then walking away) as I was suggesting is sometimes an alternative approach?

 

[dietzcoi]

Sh1t, I wish I had seen this post in 1983!!

Yes, I could not walk away and wound up in a disasterous marriage.

Str8up, you could not be more right about this.

How many times will walking away from a situation you KNOW is bad be something you regret, and how many times will staying with a woman you KNOW has bad issues be good?

But, we still do it, for reasons Rollo T and others have enumerated.

One question: How can we teach this to kids in high school?

Dietzcoi

 

[WestCoaster]

RT's post is tremendous, read the trash analogy again, folks.

Take it from a reformed AFC: I've done the get-back together thing, it doesn't work.

I've done the "closure" thing and it gets more messed up than ever, usually a yelling match ... and my friends who have tried "closure" received the same crapola. Closure is ********, it's not a man's job to do that.

Walking away is tough, one time I foolishly got involved with a recently divorced single mommy my senior year of college. I should've been dating young hotties, but I was an AFC trying to be the knight in shining armour. I finally woke up after a few weeks and just told her she's too old for me, I don't need to be going down that path right now. She was bummed and my AFC friends said I was "cold." No, I was being true to myself. She wasn't the person for me and I didn't need kids at that age. I needed to focus on my career and dating age appropriate women. I walked away, didn't look back. The gal rebounded, got re-married and then divorced again ... that bullet that went by my head was the one I dodged.

It's time men started doing what they wanted to do ... women do what they want all the time. They'll jump in bed with another guy at the first chance because, well, he made them laugh or feel good, or she had a bad hair day and wanted to feel better. They excuse it was being liberated; if a guy does it he's a user and a playboy.

Women do what they're going to do for no reason or any reason; men need to take more control of their lives.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

In the END…

Sometimes, despite all of our best laid plans, the WRONG woman can still worm her way into our lives. Whether this is due to our laziness of perception, or her Oscar-level caliber performance….shyt happens. This is when the only weapon at our disposal is our willingness to end the relationship FIRST, when we feel it is in our best interest.

And the trigger that we pull is just below the barrel of a gun we call CLOSURE.

When I speak of CLOSURE. I define it in very specific terms.

The dictionary defines CLOSURE as the perception of incomplete situations as though they were complete. This perception is achieved by ignoring the missing parts or by compensating for them by projection based on past experience.

The Victory Unlimited Translation:

CLOSURE is an inner sense that a situation or process is finished----from YOUR point of view. This is done by taking into account the evidence that you DO see, and by extrapolating the obvious conclusion based on your, or somebody else's similar past experiences.

Or as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's most popular character "Sherlock Holmes" would say:

"Once you've eliminated the possible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable---is the solution!"

Make no mistake. My definition of closure is not based on relying on a woman to "finally come clean and tell you the truth". If ONLY we could BE so fortunate…

No, it instead depends upon YOUR actions, and subsequently YOUR educated and intuitive interpretation of the results of YOUR actions. Therefore, your CLOSURE does not come from some woman giving it to you.

And, your CLOSURE does not come from any one of us on a message board telling you when it's time for you to give up on your pursuits.

No, your CLOSURE comes from you making a quality decision internally that a particular situation is finished.

In short, your CLOSURE comes from YOU.

 

[STR8UP]

The biggest problem i have with seeking closure or sticking around in a situation you should be walking away from is that when you do something like this you hand a piece of yourself over to the other person.

I'm not all about "winning" the exchange, but lets face it.....most of the time when you are dealing with a woman one person walks out of it with fewer cuts and bruises.

I just can't STAND the thought of giving a woman the kind of satisfaction I have in the past AFTER she turned into a cold blooded b!tch and I was left on my knees crying (sometimes literally), devastated that she could be so cold after the time we spent together.

Don't you think that when she has your head pinned down with the heel of her shoe she gains some satisfaction from knowing that she has brushed you off like a bad case of fleas, and you are there wondering "why, why, WHY?"

It's the lesser of two evils. You walk away battered, but you know that the outcome will be SO much better in the end. And you don't have that icky feeling, like you just sold your soul to the devil for a few peanuts. Your dignity is still intact.

I'll never forget the time i was dating this 18 yr old. I was about 25 at the time, but she was still younger and much more immature than i was. We worked together and had a mutual friend. It was an older chick, even older than me if I remember correctly, and the surprising thing is that I would have thought that she would have been loyal to the chick i was dating, but....basically she came up to me one day and started telling me how the chick I was dating kept bringing multiple guys over to her house. I said,"well I guess I better break up with her then", to which she agreed was the best idea.

I still felt like I was getting the short end of the stick, cause this 18 yr old was obviously playing me for a sucker. But I nutted up a dumped the b!tch two days before valentines day, and I have to say that to this day I'm glad i did. Imagine if I would have blown it off AFC style and planned to take her out for v-day just to have her blow me off or leave early to go fukk some other dude!

Basically, I didn't give away that last little bit of myself that would have put a smirk on her face and sent me to the corner to sulk. i honestly feel as though I came out ahead despite how it went down. Funny thing is, this is one of the only girls I dated from back in the day that I am on speaking terms with because I retained the last little bit of manhood in her eyes.

 

[edger]

I wish I saw this post around April 2005. It's tough to hear, but I still have unresolved issues about a particular ex, even though I'm dating an LTR girl that is 100 times better.

It's just how things end that kind of leads a bad taste in ones mouth and I was a mess when that girl broke up with me.

When I first got into my last relationship, I could've cared less if we broke up, could've walked away with no problem. Then something weird happened that I still cannot explain to this day, but somehow my power was overturned and she got the upper hand. I guess that was due to the emotional attachment to her that grew on me with time. That is normal, the longer you spend with someone, naturally, the more emotionally attached you will get.

Nowaday's, yeah I'll admit, I still have unresolved issues with my ex for not sticking by me through the rough times, but now that I look back, I say hey, had she truly loved me, she would've hung in there for me. I mean for f*cks sake, many women get the sh*t beaten out of them by their husbands/boyfriends and get mentally abused, and still stick by their men. The majority of women who get cheated on, still stick by their men. I was not even one tenth close to any of that with my ex, so there's no excuse why she bailed. The other unresolved issue is how she led me on. On a weekly basis, all I ever heard from her were overtones of how "we were meant to be together forever", which she ingrained into my head(yeah she got me to believe in the soulmate thing. Now that belief has sure gone to the wayside). At first I took it with a grain of salt, and basically brushed it off as nonsense, but then it grew on me, and I began thinking, "hmm, she constantly say's these things, maybe she is for real, maybe we are soulmates". Then when she bailed, that really f*cked with my head badly, cause I was like "what?, she's professed her love for me on such a tremendous scale, we were going to get married, and now she's unmercifully leaving me hanging?" Total awe. Totally dazed out. It was horrible, horrific, total anguish, worst feeling I've ever felt in my life.

Forgot to add this, but another unresolved issue I have with her is the level of inconsideration she showed me after we broke up. The level of inconsideration that she showed me was unfathomable. That really freaked me the f*ck out just like the other things.

I've gotten over the ex, but I will never forget what I had to go through at the mercy of her. The only thing I really miss is the sex, because man was it great f*cking the sh*t out of her. She was very experimentative and sexual. And what a piece of ass.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I wish I saw this post around April 2005. It's tough to hear, but I still have unresolved issues about a particular ex, even though I'm dating an LTR girl that is 100 times better.

Would it have mattered? You see the thing is, we can all preach a need for change, we can read in a thousand different ways the practicality for it and internalize it and even preach it to ourselves and never DO a damn thing about it because we're paralyzed on our deepest level.

I know, I've done it myself. You see the only thing that really prompts a person to change is being forced to do so or not to know any better. Rare, supremely rare, is the one with the self-sufficency to initiate change on their own.

 

[joekerr31]

Would it have mattered? You see the thing is, we can all preach a need for change, we can read in a thousand different ways the practicality for it and internalize it and even preach it to ourselves and never DO a damn thing about it because we're paralyzed on our deepest level.

I know, I've done it myself. You see the only thing that really prompts a person to change is being forced to do so or not to know any better. Rare, supremely rare, is the one with the self-sufficency to initiate change on their own.

wise wise words.

which is why you should constantly be putting yourself in scenarios that you may not find comfortable. it will force you to grow whether you like it or not.

 

[STR8UP]

Then something weird happened that I still cannot explain to this day, but somehow my power was overturned and she got the upper hand.

Doesn't that really piss you off?

The only thing I really miss is the sex, because man was it great f*cking the sh*t out of her. She was very experimentative and sexual. And what a piece of ass.

I can only say the same about a couple of girls, but damn.....thinking back on really good pu$$y you aren't getting anymore is enough to make a grown man cry....

 

[blueguy]

The only thing I really miss is the sex, because man was it great f*cking the sh*t out of her. She was very experimentative and sexual. And what a piece of ass.

 

[KarmaSutra]

In the END…

Sometimes, despite all of our best laid plans, the WRONG woman can still worm her way into our lives. Whether this is due to our laziness of perception, or her Oscar-level caliber performance….shyt happens. This is when the only weapon at our disposal is our willingness to end the relationship FIRST, when we feel it is in our best interest.

And the trigger that we pull is just below the barrel of a gun we call CLOSURE.

When I speak of CLOSURE. I define it in very specific terms.

The dictionary defines CLOSURE as the perception of incomplete situations as though they were complete. This perception is achieved by ignoring the missing parts or by compensating for them by projection based on past experience.

The Victory Unlimited Translation:

CLOSURE is an inner sense that a situation or process is finished----from YOUR point of view. This is done by taking into account the evidence that you DO see, and by extrapolating the obvious conclusion based on your, or somebody else's similar past experiences.

Or as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's most popular character "Sherlock Holmes" would say:

"Once you've eliminated the possible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable---is the solution!"

Make no mistake. My definition of closure is not based on relying on a woman to "finally come clean and tell you the truth". If ONLY we could BE so fortunate…

No, it instead depends upon YOUR actions, and subsequently YOUR educated and intuitive interpretation of the results of YOUR actions. Therefore, your CLOSURE does not come from some woman giving it to you.

And, your CLOSURE does not come from any one of us on a message board telling you when it's time for you to give up on your pursuits.

No, your CLOSURE comes from you making a quality decision internally that a particular situation is finished.

In short, your CLOSURE comes from YOU.

Goddamnit. This post should be stickied. Rollo's too. I've got to rewrite a couple of the Laws.

 

[Interceptor]

The idea that I thin we all really need to get acorss here is the fallacy that we still adhere to...that we all want security and stabilty.
In short, we desire NO CHANGE.
Why?
Because we want security, stabiliyt. We want the sure thing.
But that's bull sh*t.
Because there really is no such thing in this life. Stability?
I firmly believe it's an illusion. Somethig we were sold by the Matrix.
We were bought and sold down the river with this tripe. This way of "thinking".Security and stabilty are noble aims. But they are nooses, shackles, yokes. To be put on the timid, initmidated, and scared person.
That is the person who wants that sh*t, NOT ME. No way. I no longer blieve in that myth.
I know the rug will eventually be pulled from under me at some point. And I am not going to live my life trying to constantly keep it there, instead, I want to not even need to. And I 'd rather learn to live dealing with all the obstacle, and challenges I face daily, rather than desperately clinging to this debilitating notion, a myth...of security and stability. Only in Death.........

And I ain't dead yet, Goddamnit.


In fact, we can only grow and eventually thrive IN CHANGE, not stagnancy.

I like that quote about , to paraphrase here: "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better."Something like that.
And Goddamnit, that is the TRUTH!

It is so true!
Think about it.

Life ain't no petri dish, man!!

You have to build up the cojones to get out there. You have to.

I learned to approach as daily life IS "training".
That "Life is Combat. Combat IS LIfe."

While I have changed my perspective a little, I still adhere to the notion that I must prepare myself for challenge and IN stability and INsecurity.
Not restthere and hope and pray that everything will stabilize.
That's not life,man.

It's called death.
Because only in death does Man STOP growing.

Don't look for perfection.
Look for competency and skill.
Acquire that out there.
Not in "security" and "stability".
Those are lies.Don't keep buying into that sh*t.
Trust me.

 

[edger]

Doesn't that really piss you off?

Yeah it sux pretty damn badly. It had to have been from the emotional attachment I developed over time.

but damn.....thinking back on really good pu$$y you aren't getting anymore is enough to make a grown man cry....

YES IT IS. It's torture. All I can do is helplessly jack off thinking about her. It f*ckin' sux.