If you hate games... then don't date.

[RangerMIke]

Had a great conversation with a friend of mine. He went on and on about how he hated all the games that women and men play. He's interested in this women he's known for a few years, they appear to be both interested in each other... he's tried asking he out but she either turns him down or flakes on him. But when she sees him with other women she gets noticiable jealous. She pops in when she knows he's going to be someplace, and when you see them together you definately sence something is going on under the surface.

This is especially hard for mature men who might be coming off long term relationships or marrages... they get locked inot the idea that "fun' is comfort. It's not, being comfortable is nice, but it definately isn't fun.

Now they are at the point where neither one of them is willing to make a move.... so they are playing this interesting push/pull interaction. My sence is that she is seeing another guy, and my friend is plan B, I've told him this and he agrees. But she never talks about other guys wth him, so who really knows. He's not in the friend zone, but she also isn't giving him any indication she wants more from him.

My advice to him is to completely walk away and see what happens, no contact... avoid as much as possible and own the results. I know, it's a game, but that is what dating is. It's a freaking game.

You have to LOVE the game, and be wiling to have fun with it otherwise you will drive yourself crazy expecting results. If you lose the game... oh well, there is another game around the corner.... and it starts all over again.

Don't get all butt hurt when a women doesn't respond the way you expected, it's a game. No one goes into a game expecting to lose, but it does happen... put your ego in a box and have fun with it. Trust me it is VERY liberating.

 

[Tenacity]

You have to LOVE the game, and be wiling to have fun with it otherwise you will drive yourself crazy expecting results. If you lose the game... oh well, there is another game around the corner.... and it starts all over again.

Don't get all butt hurt when a women doesn't respond the way you expected, it's a game. No one goes into a game expecting to lose, but it does happen... put your ego in a box and have fun with it. Trust me it is VERY liberating.

Correct, my conclusion is that the ONLY value remaining to a woman is sex and companionship....or in other words.....she's only a form of Entertainment.

With this in mind, why would ANYONE get married to a woman today? Knowing that as mentioned, the relations with them is all a "game" so why tie a legal contract in with the game? Why create any children? You are exposed to that same Family Court System with the creation of children that you are when you divorce.

I say that today's market of women are the WORSE in history. All a guy can do is opt out of marriage, opt out of creating children, opt out of cohabitation....and ONLY do relations with women inside of a "dating" relationship. So at ANY TIME when this chick flips out and starts acting different, you can just walk away from her and go to another chick free and clear!

 

[Lexington]

Like Mark Manson says, it's either f*ck yes or f*ck no. If you're just looking to get some @$$, you can put up with these games. But if you want a serious relationship (and yes I know many people think those are foolish), the girl should be enthusiastic from the get-go. If she is going hot/cold (a lot of girls do these days), she should be firmly Nexted.

As entitled, narcissistic and shallow as many women are these days, there are still some decent ones out there. There are women who want to get married at a young age instead of riding the c0ck carousel. These kinds of women won't play too many games. They will show strong interest, enthusiastically accept your dates and also do things to please you.

In my experience, if you want a good marriage/mother material, there are some qualities you should look for. Does she come from an intact family? Does she have a good relationship with her father? Is she good at cooking and cleaning? Does she like children and does she want to have some of her own in the next few years? Does she dress relatively conservatively or does she dress like a slvt?

 

[VladPatton]

It most definitely is a game. Don't believe it? Put your cards on the table from day one, be honest, caring and direct, and tell me how it goes. Been there, done that, and I got spanked every time. It really sucks that you have to play this so called game , but that's the situation of our current society. Don't wanna play? Then you have 2 choices: be socially frustrated forever, or be single forever. You'll survive, though....self awareness is a fantastic thing.

 

[Starwolf]

In my experience, if you want a good marriage/mother material, there are some qualities you should look for. Does she come from an intact family? Does she have a good relationship with her father? Is she good at cooking and cleaning? Does she like children and does she want to have some of her own in the next few years? Does she dress relatively conservatively or does she dress like a slvt?

you forgot to mention that these types are usually less attractive.
so sadly.... lowering your standards is a must if you want this.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

All relationships are based on exchange. Whether you're selling lemonade for ten cents or getting married, it's an exchange.

What are you giving?

What are you receiving?

Under what conditions?

The trouble with modern relationships is both parties not only don't know the answer to either of these, but they are always in flux.

Of course, you CAN increase the odds in your favor, but as VladPatton mentioned, this requires some honest self awareness AND some brass ones.

But it's fun if you realize it's a game, and that there really are no rules. Just like haggling on the streets of Bangkok or Tijuana, it's all about trying to get the most while giving the least.

It only sucks if you expect it to end.

It won't.

Ever.

 

[RangerMIke]

But it's fun if you realize it's a game, and that there really are no rules. Just like haggling on the streets of Bangkok or Tijuana, it's all about trying to get the most while giving the least.

Ever.

So true. A relationship is just two people selfishly attempting to service their needs with another.

Long term realtionships happen when two people's selfish pursuits are fully aligned. You have what she wants and vis a vis.

There is really nothing wrong with this. I always evaluate my relationships on what she is getting from me. A lot of men don't do this, they only focus on what they want. You can save a lot of time, money, and heart-ache if you objectively evaluate what a women is getting from you. Then you can determine if the relationship is worth it.

If she is expecting something that you know you can not consistantly deliver then break it off. If you want the realtionship to last, then you know what you need to do to keep it going, and will not get distracted by other efforts which are meaningless to her.

 

[Lexington]

you forgot to mention that these types are usually less attractive.
so sadly.... lowering your standards is a must if you want this.

I disagree on this point. There is no reason why these girls would be less attractive. Of course, they are rarer these days and a lot of them get locked down quickly. Rather than lowering your standards, you need to up your Game.

 

[Vulpine]

It most definitely is a game. Don't believe it? Put your cards on the table from day one, be honest, caring and direct, and tell me how it goes. Been there, done that, and I got spanked every time.

It may depend on what your cards are.

I started putting my cards flat-out on the table sooner-than-later and incorporated it into boundaries/expectations. I must say, my results have been VERY good. "This is where I'm going, what I'm doing, and I must be clear: where I'm going and what I'm doing are set in stone. You can either come along on the ride, or don't bother buying a ticket." It's either been met with:
:cuss:
In which case, thank you, you clearly aren't measuring up.
...or it's been met with:

Women aren't used to confidence. It really gets them tingling when you strong-arm the frame and bypass "the game". You stand apart. "Yes, I'm sure you'd love to dance around for weeks, or months, playing texty games, hide-and-go-seek, and going on all-expenses-paid evening adventures... but I've got more important sh¡t to spend my time on. Be on my team, or take a ƒucking leap, those are your options." You can imagine the context that this sort of expression would stem from. When women do the entitlement thing, or get into the guilt/shame manipulation crap, then I am quick to punt: thanks, Anti-Dump!

Most of you know there are a lot of garbage chicks out there. Those usually prefer the maximum "gaminess" in their dating lives. When you encounter a chick with a higher level of quality, the "game" isn't nearly as fun for them, though they play it. No, they'd prefer less of the fooling around and more of getting straight to the "good stuff".

It all boils down to adversarial versus cooperative. Women that approach dating as a "game" to be played are adversaries to men they haven't even met yet. Cooperative women, who are clearly of "higher quality", want to avoid drama, trickery, and fighting. Of course, "emotions", so, my generalization is pretty obtuse.

Same for guys. Ever hear "you have to be a friend to have a friend"? Granted, "dating" is a game, if you play it that way. Long ago this board was advocating not "dating", mainly for the effect of "bypassing the game" that women made out of it. If we didn't date, we didn't put ourselves on the AFC team that would lose every time. Instead, DJ's snatch women out of their arena and put them in our beds. "Your game sucks, let's play this one, instead."

If more men took the lead, then we wouldn't have nearly the gaminess that the dating scene has become.

 

[RangerMIke]

It may depend on what your cards are.

I started putting my cards flat-out on the table sooner-than-later and incorporated it into boundaries/expectations. I must say, my results have been VERY good.

I agree. If you are honest about what you want, women will know. But I really don't think you need to verbalize any of it. They will know by your actions. The only thing that a man can do in a relationship is be willing to walk away from it. Trying to keep a relationship that a woman does not want is a complete waste of time.

When men start pretending they are something that they are not, women will know... they always know, and this is what screws you up. This is why women are repulsed by 'nice guys'. There are a few men out their that are REALLY nice.... but most are a bunch of worthless manipulative phonies. Genuine nice guys end up finding genuine nice women and it works... because it's based on honesty.

 

[Tenacity]

All relationships are based on exchange. Whether you're selling lemonade for ten cents or getting married, it's an exchange.

That right there sums up the reason this is the worse market of women in history, the reason being is that MEN really have nothing else of substance to offer her that she CAN'T provide herself. In other words, there's no market exchange, all you have left with marriage and other long term relationships today is just emotional, religious and societal SHAMING tactics that PUSH you into these types of relationships to fit in rather than you willingly going into them for survival.

Back in the day, before women's liberation, women had to depend on men for survival. Women were not going around talking about how Boston Terrorists were sexy, how Convicted Felons were sexy, how they need some "Thug Dyck"....NO....they were trying to find a man with MONEY or money earning potential to take care of her a.ss because she literally was banned from the marketplace to do so on her own.

THAT'S why she remained loyal. THAT'S why she remained feminine. THAT'S why she didn't bytch, moan, nag, complain, cheat, and do all of this foul shyt they do today because if she did then she couldn't eat.

Women no longer need us anymore, they are very much Men 2.0 today in my opinion, they can fvck whomever they want, open a business, drink beer, be President (see Hillary in 2016) and just be FREE without having any true ties to anything. And THAT'S exactly what they are doing.

My stance is that the only way a Marriage works is if one of the parties is depended on the other for survival. That does NOT exist in 2014/2015. People get married today because they are SHAMED into it and programmed into it, neither is truly depended on either.

As a result, if the parties no longer NEED each other, what is the true basis of the Marriage? What's the true basis of the LTR? I'll tell you what it is...it's Entertainment.

- It's how she/he makes she/he feel.
- It's how she/he fvcks she/he every night.
- It's how she/he gives oral sex.
- It's how she/he looks.
- It's how she/he holds a conversation.
- It's how she/he spends money on she/he.
- It's how funny she/he is and how she/he makes me laugh.
- It's how much "swag" she/he has.
- It's how big his/her (insert sexual body part here) is

Come on guys...what is this? It's all ENTERTAINMENT. Which just like a TV Show, the moment you STOP producing the "product", the show, the "feel" and the "look" that I prefer then I will become bored and I will want out.

That's the market today guys! Only deal with women in a dating relationship and do not TIE your damn finances (marriage, creating children, cohabitation) in with this childish market that we have out here today.