I was sure this HB had the hots for me. Could I have been wrong?

[Rev]

I living in DC for work lately and there's this little shop I go to almost everyday. It's one of those little immigrant owned convient store/deli's so common in big cities. But the cashier there is a knockout. I started playing around with her and I could have sworn she was interested. She always lit up when I went in there. Nice body language etc. But a few nights ago I tried to close and I think I was either wrong the whole time or I fvcked it up then and there.

I guess I should have #closed but I thought I could get her to go somewhere with her when she got off, like for a coffee or drink or something. I think I totally underestimated her Cosmo game. I asked her what she was doing that night and she said she was going to go home and study (I'll buy that, it is 'finals' season). I asked her when she had the night off and she said she works every night, which she does pretty much, but once in a while she's not there. When she told me that I was taken back. It sounded like something I had not heard in a while: typical BS to keep a guy at arm's length. It reeked of Low IL and bordered on rejection confused: ). My mind raced for the right response for this (this is not the average clueless chump she's dealing with here ) but all I could think of at the time was to tell her I would get back to her about going out with her after work on the weekend (when she wouldn't have to study after work) but told her I might have company and she was in the #2 position. She then laughed and said I was funny. I inquired as to why I was so funny and she was like "Look at you" (referring to the fact that I was asking her out and she had not yet been selected). Now, normally I would have busted her ass on that one but I was still in shock from what she said before. After this my game fell off a cliff and I ejected.

I plan on going back and trying to salvage. My plan is to LJBF her: tell her we really should JBF and ask her if she's into the bar scene and play it from there.

What do you guys think of this situation?

 

[GynecologyEnthusiast]

Rev,

I didn't really understand your story. It was hard to follow exactly what happened.

GE

 

[bp1974]

You've not yet had a date with her - is LJBFing an option??

Her point of view:

- This guy comes in a couple of times and chats with me while I work

- He asks me out, for whatever reason I say no

- He comes back one day and says he thinks we should just be friends. WTF?? Sounds like this guy's had a whole relationship with me in his head..

bp1974

 

[Lionheart]

Good Point BP, if you don't have any sort of personal relationship with someone, saying LJBF, will make you sound like a stalker.

"I inquired as to why I was so funny and she was like "Look at you" (referring to the fact that I was asking [her out and she had not yet been selected)."

I don't understand this bit, was she being haughty and laughing that you would dare have the nerve to ask her out?
(By the context I mean that she thinks you aren't good enough for her...i used to get this SO many times a long time ago.)

If that is the case Next! this *****, even if it isn't I would next! here anyway, she sounds like a weirdo, and a boring one at that.

Lion.

 

[thissucks003]

Where's the rapport? I didn't see you mentioned that in your post. I am wrong? Thinking a girl is into you by her just smiling and actually having good rapport with a chick are two different avenues. Maybe you are not in the same street with her as you think.

TS

 

[becker]

The closest I've ever gotten to your situation (except for the whole laughing part - ouch!) was with a girl who I asked out that ended up having a BF. Bottom line on that is that all the good ones are always taken. You need to get them right after they get out of high school, then never drop them or something, because whoever does end up getting them will never be out of their lives, even if they break up.

Well, bp1974 has a good point in that you sort of need a little more substance to a relationship before the whole LJBF thing. I am a normal practicer of the "aggressive LJBF" bit, where I become friends with a girl (not expressly saying "LJBF") but more as an implied thing. The fact that you're not all over them but they get to know you as a friend (don't talk about relationships too much if you do this) will make them curious, and actually become more attracted to you. I can pull off the "I don't give a sh*t" attitude very well.

To pull off something like this, you need to:

1. First get to know the girl on a social friend level (don't be her best friend or anything, just be "a" friend).

2. Next, as a friend, you'll learn some things about her, such as her birthday, what she likes to do, some idiosyncracies/pet peeves, and other little bits about her. Remember these things (I'm lucky to have a good memory, so this is not too difficult for me). This part is crucial, because paying attention to detail is an attractive quality and can help you out of the friends zone in her mind. Still, don't make any moves or anything, just stay cool
.
3. After a while (you have to be patient in building even a social relationship with her) say her birthday is coming up. Without even hinting at it, do something for her birthday, use the information you know about her and try to apply it to a birthday gift. If it is something funny, it gives you a perfect opportunity to give her something that can be seen as both funny/amusing, yet very thoughtful. A funny card that says something that relates to something she told you earlier is one example. A CD with songs that she said she liked is another. There are others, but be creative. You'll score big points for just remembering her birthday. Just don't give her a diamond necklace or anything of that sort, otherwise, this plan goes down in flames.

4. Next, when you talk to her, any chance you have to apply something from the past that she told you, do it. More points for listening to information that seems mundane to you, but not to her.

5. Sit back and watch her reactions. If you do it well, she will either start to seem more attracted to you than before, or else she will just try to become better friends with you. Don't get discouraged if it's the latter; just take the "I don't give a sh*t" mindset and keep going with what you're doing. It helps to be a little thick skinned here so you don't get all bent out of shape if she's not immediately falling for you (which certainly happens). This stuff takes a lot of time.

6. This takes a pretty persistent guy and one with the ability to suppress his feelings for a while. She does the choosing, so you have no control over it anyways. You need to lead the horse to water, then you let the horse drink. If the horse doesn't want to, there's not a lot you can do except to keep leading it to water (it's bound to have to drink sometime) or move on.

I personally think the former is a little more interesting, and good practice anyways. Worst case scenario is that you have a hot girl for social proof, but personal experience, I've found that girls tend to fall for you more often than they diss if you do this right.

 

[Rev]

OK, I'll tell it again. I think I left a few things out anyway.

I had been going to this store for a couple months. She was always there working the cash register. I casually started to chat with her more and more. I onced asked her if she worked there 24/7 (C&F) and she said she works every night but has afternoons off. "Afternoons off. That's pretty cool." My intention was to neghit her position. The last few times I went there we had some decent convo going. I once asked her what kind of stuff she did after she got off work. She said "Nothing, I don't do anything". Whatever. I told her we should hang out to save her from her boredom, she agreed enthusiastically (we all know what that's worth) but I didn't #close because I see her everday. This is all leading up to our most recent encounter which I did not explain clearly in by initial post.

The other night about 9, I go in there and she smiles and gives acts like she's just natually expecting me to come chat with her. I went up and did this, then I cut it short to go get my drink. When I went to pay I asked her what she was doing after work and she said "go home and study blah blah". At this point, I think, my game started to suffer. I said "Well, when do you have a night off?" She said she works everynight. Granted, she is in there nearly every single night. I told her I'd get back to her about the weekend and told her I might 'have company' instead (true BTW) but I'd let her know if I didn't. She thought it was funny that I would say such a thing.

Chicks with high IL will make time to spend with you, even if busy, right?

Also, I'm a tad suspicious that she is a hired POA (Piece Of Ass). She always wears form-fitting clothes and you should see all the guys that go in there. She must increase business by about 400%. I can't imagine that she would flirt with the customers as part of her job, but I have not counted that out.

I hope I cleared that up. Comments? What do you guys think about me LJBFing her? Any suggestions?

 

[junglist]

While you surely can't LJBF her, as was pointed out, you can mention somehow that you are "just friends". It will **** with her head and automatically raise her IL. Whether it will suffice is another matter.

 

[myfriendblu]

you ever work at a place, where there is chik thats about a 4 or 5, that comes in and chats you up now and again, for whatever reason but you never pay attention? Now think of that girl asking you out....You would be flattered, yes, you wouldn't tell her to F off or flat out no, but you would flake, somewhere along the lines of "Im really busy, i work alot"......Guess what, that just happened to you. NJot that your a 4 or 5, just using that as an example of how people can be friendly without an attraction.

 

[becker]

myfriendblu, definitely a good point. I agree for the most part.

I'd get to know what the girl is like first, though before drawing any conclusions. Problem about he excuses is that some people hold school as a higher priority than relationships. Maybe the girl has a BF but she is playing along for the attention. I didn't catch whether you asked her if she has a BF or found out somehow, but you should maybe do that first. HBs are rarely unattached.

 

[Rev]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies guys.

I see what you all say about LJBFing her. what I mean is to just mention something in passing, about how she would make a good friend (David DeAngelo style) like junglist said. All I really need is to get her to spend some time with me and I can build attraction. This is my major strength. My major weakness is 'traditional' dating thing. I've tried many times but I can't think of one time in my life when a chick didn't flake on me when I made a date. They either give an excuse like this chick or they don't show. Seriously, I don't know what's wrong. What does work for me is building attraction and amplifying sexaul friction til they are noticeably turned on, then I gradually progress Kino into heavy petting and hooking up. But I obviously can't do that at her workplace

All I need is to get her into a different environment than that damn store. If I fail after that then that's peachy-dandy. I just need a chance. I would just assume use her as social proof, which I need badly - that stuff is dynamite! I would just assume meet all her HB college friends. I would just assume NEXT! her but I'm still going to be going to that store anyway so I might as well experiment on her at the very least. What the hell, I might just make the ho say 'no'.

 

[Brasco]

Great post becker, that is pretty much the way I do it. It works good but it does take some time. Now I am trying to pull this off on a chick that has a boyfriend. It seems to be working so far, she pops in to visite me more often also I noticed her body language changed alot. she still has her boyfriend but she never talks to me about him.....never. I noticed he doesn't come down as often as he used to. I never call her she is the one who always calls or pops in. I'll just keep playing and see what happens

 

[Rev]

I don't think I've asked but I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a BF. I've given her all kinds of opportunities to mention him.

 

[JJMcLure]

Originally posted by Rev
I asked her what she was doing that night and she said she was going to go home and study (I'll buy that, it is 'finals' season). I asked her when she had the night off and she said she works every night, which she does pretty much, but once in a while she's not there. When she told me that I was taken back.

Who the fvck cares what she is doing? Why ask that?

Do you expect her to say "Nothing, I have no life", "Waiting for you to ask my out", "I kept my calendar free to spend the night with you". Let alone the fact it was that night, not even one week away.

You offer the chick a chance to spend time with you by making a specific suggestion. She accepts/declines.

She then laughed and said I was funny. I inquired as to why I was so funny and she was like "Look at you" (referring to the fact that I was asking her out and she had not yet been selected). Now, normally I would have busted her ass on that one but I was still in shock from what she said before. After this my game fell off a cliff and I ejected.

Clearly her perception of you and your perception of you aren't the same.

Maybe your ****y funny act was over the top, or maybe she has seen you so many times she thought it was somewhat a forced line, or maybe her perception of you is just not as a player.

Sounds like she managed to bust your "DJ-shield". Like when we bust a *****-shield and they don't know what to do/say next.

I plan on going back and trying to salvage. My plan is to LJBF her: tell her we really should JBF and ask her if she's into the bar scene and play it from there.

Like has been said, this would be out of place. Are you sure you don't have some infatuation for this girl if you've been working on her a while. Considering the above LJBF idea, maybe you've been planning things out in your head too much.

I don't think I've asked but I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a BF. I've given her all kinds of opportunities to mention him.

You ask her out and she accepts or declines, you don't find her life story and timetable beforehand. All you need is a simple yes or no to a "date".

I can't imagine that she would flirt with the customers as part of her job, but I have not counted that out.

No, a woman would NEVER do that. Even if its not part of her job, it would sure make a sh1tty job more interesting for her.

Overall it seems to me you have been waiting too long to make a move. She probably sensed it, chicks always assume you are attracted to them.

 

[Rev]

JJ, The simple fact is that I go in there all the time (because I can walk there) and there she is. I could forget about trying to DJ her, but then I go to get a drink and there she is again. Half the time I don't even want to see her or I'm just not on top of my game, and it's times like this that I can hurt my cause, but the last thing I'll ever do is lay down (This seems to be what some are suggesting). I could NEXT! her right now, but in a couple hours I'm gonna be getting my daily reminder of how hot she is, and I'm gonna flirt with and tease her and build attraction. That's just the way it is and it's unavoidable. And yes I put thought into it, that's what this board is for. I'm not just trying to PU this one chick. I'm trying to master the art of the PU.

And I assure all of you guys, that little brush-off line she gave me impacted my 'DJ-shield' like a fly impacts a windshield (since you're keen on analogies ).

 

[Rev]

Oh BTW, Since I'm sitting in front of a computer and I'm kicking ideas around in my head (and I can type about 1000 words per minute) I might as well describe what I'm thinking I'll do. Hold off on asking her out. When I go in there tonight I'll say "How's school?" and keep the flirting to a minimum. She'll probably ask if my 'company' came. If she doesn't I'll bring it up. I'll tell her I was hoping my GF was coming up to visit but she couldn't make it (100% true) and how damn dissappointed I am about that. This should confuse her a bit Then I'll tell her to have fun doing whatever it is she does when she goes home. Maybe I'll use a negation pattern like "Whatever you do, don't think about me all night tonight and fall madly in love with me. Because it's actually when you're by yourself when you fall in love with someone (sp). But doesn't it feel good when you experience that. With me, I love that feeling... But Isn't the mind interesting? I'll tell you more about it sometime." Then pay and leave like I have things to do.

I just made that pattern up right now, BTW. Hehe, this is so fun.

 

[Luscious]

A few quick thoughts...

When she said "Look at you!"
You should have said either "I'll leave that to you, you seem to enjoy it more than enough " or maybe "I can't - I would turn myself on too much". Just a couple C&F lines.

Sounds like she might not really see you as a fully sexual male. Cut back on your store visits. Or better yet - cut off these store visits for a week or so and then come in one day with a HB just for social proof. See if you can get her going with overt, blatant signs of competition - it sounds like she might think you aren't popular with women and thus non-relationship or sex material.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Ricky]

First off, it isn't over by any means.

Rev a point in your favor is that you didn't just hit on her in the same way these other losers had. You've made convo several times.

Don't worry about asking her out the next few times. Instead keep the convo like normal.

Then next time try an assumptive close on her. Something to the effect of "Let's get a cup of coffee after you get off, do you prefer Starbucks or (the local non chain coffee store nearby)" Then tell her to give you her number.

Pick a place nearby her work, that way there is no stress involved.

If the assumptive close fails, by all means eject, take a week to recover your ego (which realistically shouldn't be bruised as all cuz there are so many hot girls out there that you don't have time to reflect on just one) and move on.

More than likely the assumptive close will work. Just find a way to do it!

 

[becker]

Originally posted by Brasco
Great post becker, that is pretty much the way I do it. It works good but it does take some time. Now I am trying to pull this off on a chick that has a boyfriend. It seems to be working so far, she pops in to visite me more often also I noticed her body language changed alot. she still has her boyfriend but she never talks to me about him.....never. I noticed he doesn't come down as often as he used to. I never call her she is the one who always calls or pops in. I'll just keep playing and see what happens

Brasco, thanks, it's nice to see someone pulling out the same thing as me for once. It's much tougher with the BF, but I'm an optimist in that it can be done, but over a long time. The longer they've been in the relationship, I assume the tougher it will be unless the relationship absolutely sucks.

I know a girl who has been in a relationship for 4 years already, and I've known her for 3 of those 4 years, and only now is she sort of showing some interest. It's hard to go after these girls early on in their relationship because they'll undoubtedly be all into their BFs. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Patience is definitely the key. It's like playing chess..

As for Rev, the problem with suddenly doing less than you did before is that it will seem a little abrupt, and being that you already hit on her, don't try to make her jealous with another girl since it will be so obvious what you're trying to do. I think that the key is that you'll have to just stay friendly but don't even hint at asking her out anymore for a while. Do normal, non-flirty things until her IL starts to maybe pick up. Remember, be thick skinned! If you ask her to do anything and she refuses, say "ok", and just leave or something. Don't get all emotional about it or anything like that. Hopefully that will help.

 

[Brasco]

Your very welcome becker, I only play that way when its a posible long term chick, because its takes alot of time but if played right it can be very effective. If she has hot friends and you see you ain't getting anywhere with her , go after her friends, you can't go wrong, you just talk with this chick so it leaves you wide open to do whatever.