I want to break up. I'm married.

[guru1000]

- A woman who LEGITIMATELY loves you will not care whether you sign a contract or not.

Define "legitimate love." 100% selfless love? Nonexistent in human nature.

If ALL her needs can be met outside of marriage, only then will she be game to no marriage contract.

 

[Tenacity]

An important point, but this "true" love contradicts biological urges so not realistic.

Define "legitimate love." 100% selfless love? Nonexistent in human nature. If ALL her needs can be met outside of marriage, only then will she be game to no marriage contract.

Legitimate love in my opinion, is when a chick actually wants and needs to be with you. She loves you. If a chick legitimately loves you, she will love you IN a marriage contract or outside of one.

I've had chicks tell me they just broke up with a guy they were with for 5 years because he wouldn't marry her. It's clear that those chicks are more in love with the WEDDING than the MARRIAGE.

Technically speaking, if two people are in love....soul mates....and together....you technically are already "married" because that's really what the basis of marriage is. We are just in a day and age where chicks want status symbols, and wedding rings, big weddings, and wedding pics for Facebook likes are all status symbols.

 

[guru1000]

Legitimate love in my opinion, is when a chick actually wants and needs to be with you. She loves you. If a chick legitimately loves you, she will love you IN a marriage contract or outside of one.
....
Technically speaking, if two people are in love....soul mates....and together....you technically are already "married" because that's really what the basis of marriage is.

If you believe that a girl's desire to be with you can supersede her own needs, then you still don't understand "love," "the red pill," nor human nature.

Women are more cunning than you would like to believe. Sure, they throw around the "wedding day" as if it's important; what they are truly looking for is the financial security of the marriage contract as an assurance that you will stick around when their beauty disappears (as the cost of divorce is too great). A true win-win for them. You will find that very financially successful women are less inclined to get married as they simply don't need your financial security as they already have it.

 

[Tenacity]

If you believe that a girl's desire to be with you can supersede her own needs, then you still don't understand "love," "the red pill," nor human nature.

- Her own needs? Are you making the argument again about women operating on natural/biological imperatives, when I've provided numerous examples of today's women operating MORE on social conditioning/cultural influences?

- In regards to "Red Pill", yes, I understand as much as I'm going to understand about the cartoon Manosphere theories that's pushed by anonymous so called "men" on the internet who don't even have the balls to show their face. The hundreds of theories from PUA shyt, MGTOW shyt, MRA shyt, Don Juan shyt, AFC shyt, Beta Male shyt, Alpha Male shyt, C0cky/Funny shyt, 3 Second rule shyt, DJ Bible shyt, Make The H0e Say No shyt, etc, etc, etc.

As I've said before, in my opinion the theories are too one dimensional and too extreme. Nobody is 100% red pill, nobody is 100% blue pill, nobody is 100% beta, and nobody is 100% alpha. NOBODY.

In the real world (where Tenacity operates) you function with a balanced approach. There's aspects of you that are red pill, aspects that are blue pill, aspects that are Alpha, and aspects that are Beta. But you will never hear this shyt in the anonymous cartoon Manosphere land where (let's keep it real) the majority of the guys creating theories and regurgitating theories are ugly, lazy, fat and so broke that his punk a.ss couldn't fvck an escort lol. Keep it real, that's why 98% of Manosphere folks (on Sosuave, on Youtube, on Reddit, etc., etc.) are anonymous as hell.

We all know situations like this. I think they usually arise when children are off the table. When children are on the table, marriage becomes supremely important to women(understandably).

If this is true, then why over here in the black community, are children being born to and raised in single mother households 75% of the time?

 

[guru1000]

- Her own needs? Are you making the argument again about women operating on natural/biological imperatives

This was your straw-assumption.

Again, I said simply:

If you believe that a girl's desire to be with you can supersede her own needs, then you still don't understand "love," "the red pill," nor human nature.

Needs <> Biological Needs Only

 

[Tenacity]

.....welfare incentives.....

So wouldn't this make the statement you said prior inaccurate then?

 

[Tenacity]

Her needs can be psychological or culturally defined rather than biological, but still needs nonetheless(subjectively).

If the "needs" you guys are referring to are culturally defined, then how can you disagree with my assertion that a chick breaking up with a guy she "loves" because he wouldn't marry her....is more in love with the wedding than the guy? That she's focused on checking off a box, having her Barbie in a wedding dress moment, and putting her wedding pics on Facebook for likes? Are those the needs you guys are referring to? Because those aren't needs....those are very much "superficial wants".

Compare those needs to a woman's needs to get married 100 years ago, when the purpose of her marriage was protection and provision because only a MAN could bring those things to her. Women were not fvcking Pookie 100 years ago and having his "baby".

 

[guru1000]

Tenacity, again, you "cleverly" missed Post 27, Paragraph 2:

Women are more cunning than you would like to believe. Sure, they throw around the "wedding day" as if it's important; what they are truly looking for is the financial security of the marriage contract as an assurance that you will stick around when their beauty disappears (as the cost of divorce is too great). A true win-win for them. You will find that very financially successful women are less inclined to get married as they simply don't need your financial security as they already have it.

Anything else you would like to add?

 

[Serenity]

1. Avoiding divorce will not improve the situation.
2. I doubt she'll listen to and much less accept whatever reason you throw at her for breaking up, based on past response.
3. She's not a good wife it sounds like, I doubt she loves you, seems more worried about her green card than how you feel.
4. It's obvious that both of you will feel losses before this is over.
5. No matter how you end it she's not gonna be happy, but you know it's the right thing.

It's also not your problem what happens to her afterwards, you're not her dad. You do not bear the full responsibility for this relationship alone. If divorce means she's going back to Iran then that's not your problem, it's the result from the sum of her choices.

Happiness is extremely important, yours is more important to you than hers. It would not be right to make her happy at the expense of your own happiness.

Put it simply, stand your ground and just do it. There's nothing left of this marriage or relationship. There's only two choices, be too afraid to go through with it and become a doormat or do what you know in your heart to be right.

 

[Silko]

you marry as commitment to keep your relational sh1t together with this person.

you don't marry because the love feelings and if you do you are fooling yourself.
because at the end you will lose with whatever person your love feelings. again and again.

after love feelings, you go to stage caring ... there you marry if you would like.

getting beaten is always a no.
maybe she feels powerlessness. talk, or walk ... and marry for the right reasons

If you anyway still care her, I would last until her green card.
If you don't care/love her anymore ... that will be though too to 'fake' for the green card table.

We are humans and not living laws. I know a friend that married an argentian girl to get her an EU passport. He just did cause good friends (yeah, why not, we decide what life we want, not the laws). At the end ... they married for real ... .

 

[wanderlust]

I really doubt she is going to want to go through all the necessary steps to fool immigration. Don't go down that road unless you are both fully committed to the ruse.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean about fooling immigration. When you said earlier that I should follow through on helping her get her green card, do you mean I should stay in the relationship until she gets the green card? That's about 10 months from now. We've just hit 3 years together. That's almost another year we'd have to be together until we have our next immigration interview.

1. Avoiding divorce will not improve the situation.
2. I doubt she'll listen to and much less accept whatever reason you throw at her for breaking up, based on past response.
3. She's not a good wife it sounds like, I doubt she loves you, seems more worried about her green card than how you feel.
4. It's obvious that both of you will feel losses before this is over.
5. No matter how you end it she's not gonna be happy, but you know it's the right thing.

It's also not your problem what happens to her afterwards, you're not her dad. You do not bear the full responsibility for this relationship alone. If divorce means she's going back to Iran then that's not your problem, it's the result from the sum of her choices.

Happiness is extremely important, yours is more important to you than hers. It would not be right to make her happy at the expense of your own happiness.

Put it simply, stand your ground and just do it. There's nothing left of this marriage or relationship. There's only two choices, be too afraid to go through with it and become a doormat or do what you know in your heart to be right.

I suppose you're right. The reason I've gotten into this mess is because I put her happiness above my own.

Today I called a law office that my friend referred me to. I spoke with the brother of the attorney who owns the firm and told him about my situation. He said he'd pass the info on to his brother and that I should get a call from the dude within the next two days. I was advised not to do anything until I talk to his brother. So I'm gonna hold off on doing anything this weekend until I hear what he has to say.

My girl was all over me tonight. I think she could sense I was pulling away a little bit. We watched a little TV together and she was begging me to hold her. I think she does want to feel loved. I do recall though, after we had been seeing each other for about a month, I was the first to say I love you and she couldn't reciprocate it. She blamed it on a failed relationship she had gotten out of that summer before me. So, no, I don't think she loved me initially, but due to circumstance and time spent together she now does. Not that I view that as something to be proud about of course.

BTW, I can't even get it in right now, she's been bleeding off and on for about 3 weeks. She's obviously got something strange going on and she's got cysts on her ovaries . Her ob/gyn told her a month ago she needed to get blood work done but she's been putting it off. She tried to go once and she forget her fvcking insurance card. Why would you have that anywhere but in your wallet? She's now put it on me to help drop her off there because she doesn't like parking in the structure where she has to get the blood work done. And then she was also supposed to have an ultrasound done, but this time the office fvcked up and forgot to schedule her in. Whatever.

 

[wanderlust]

after love feelings, you go to stage caring ... there you marry if you would like.

If you anyway still care her, I would last until her green card.
If you don't care/love her anymore ... that will be though too to 'fake' for the green card table.

We are humans and not living laws. I know a friend that married an argentian girl to get her an EU passport. He just did cause good friends (yeah, why not, we decide what life we want, not the laws). At the end ... they married for real ... .

I hear you. I do care about her and that's why I posted about this. I could get rid of her right now, just like that. It'd be pretty cold and heartless of course.

As for what you said about being humans and not living laws, that's a big reason for why I did it. I didn't want the government to be the reason for my relationship ending before I could explore what else it had to offer. So I figured what the hell, I'll put my name on a piece of paper and get it stamped by the government if that's what it takes to keep Agent Smith at arm's length from my love life.

Looking back though, we should have tried any other way to do it that did not involve marriage even if it would make for a more difficult process. That way she wouldn't be so dependent on me, and there wouldn't be all these questions of, "does she actually love me, or does she love me for the green card?" She didn't want to try to claim asylum, like her uncle had done a few years prior, because she was afraid of lying to immigration and getting caught in a lie. I'm no immigration expert but I'm pretty sure she could have at least extended her student visa since she has good grades. There had to be another way. One of the biggest benefits she gets out of having her green card now is that her college tuition has gone down. Before she had to pay the out-of-state price per unit, now she has much cheaper in-state price per unit.

I distinctly remember having a conversation early on in our relationship when I was driving her back to her place and marriage came up. I told her how I didn't want to get married and I didn't like how governments give special benefits to married couples, and that marriage should just be something that is done through the churches without any benefit but a religious/spiritual one. And she agreed. Funny how quickly things change.

 

[PantyWhisperer]

I rolled through most of this thread, bypassing most of the marriage/needs/love definitions, and it seems to me that you are still more worried about her than you are yourself. If true, maybe there's your proof to yourself that you love her. But it could also mean that you just don't want the guilt that may come with chasing what you really "want" which is your freedom. If so, that means that you mostly care about yourself over her. You want the flavor and satisfaction of chasing poon without the calories. Nothing wrong with that either but if that's where you have ended up, then you need to go ahead and extricate yourself from sponsoring her and from your marriage, in that order. I'm not sure that I could feel so benevolent towards someone who not only just married me for a green card, but was abusive as well.
Bottom line is you need to walk as soon as you have some good advice from competent counsel.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I rolled through most of this thread, bypassing most of the marriage/needs/love definitions, and it seems to me that you are still more worried about her than you are yourself. If true, maybe there's your proof to yourself that you love her. But it could also mean that you just don't want the guilt that may come with chasing what you really "want" which is your freedom. If so, that means that you mostly care about yourself over her. You want the flavor and satisfaction of chasing poon without the calories. Nothing wrong with that either but if that's where you have ended up, then you need to go ahead and extricate yourself from sponsoring her and from your marriage, in that order. I'm not sure that I could feel so benevolent towards someone who not only just married me for a green card, but was abusive as well.
Bottom line is you need to walk as soon as you have some good advice from competent counsel.

Those bad situations take a lot out of you where you are "used", especially if you are expecting emotional support from them. I'd estimate your confidence will be drained 30-50% or even more, it's enough to notice once you unload the dead weight.

Your right even used for the green card is pretty bad, unless it was going to be a sex and descent homelife while this was going on... But being abused ontop of it and having to stand in as a punching bag... That sucks.

And when you get "used" often enough they will feel like $hit and redirect the emotions at you and treat you like garbage to make up for it.

 

[Serenity]

@wanderlust Good idea putting professionals on the case.

You still claim she loves you, but you only mention what she wants from you. She was taking love, not giving it like a person who loves another normally does.

To love is to give. Sure she wants to be loved, but you don't love her so you either can't or you gotta pretend to give it.

The give and take dynamic is extremely important, which way does the scale lean in your marriage? Do you give more than her?

 

[grayclif]

You can't just give up because you don't feel like it anymore.

If a woman can why can't he?

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

BTW, I can't even get it in right now, she's been bleeding off and on for about 3 weeks. She's obviously got something strange going on and she's got cysts on her ovaries . Her ob/gyn told her a month ago she needed to get blood work done but she's been putting it off. She tried to go once and she forget her fvcking insurance card. Why would you have that anywhere but in your wallet? She's now put it on me to help drop her off there because she doesn't like parking in the structure where she has to get the blood work done. And then she was also supposed to have an ultrasound done, but this time the office fvcked up and forgot to schedule her in. Whatever.

I swear, she's giving you a hard time on purpose just to delay. And now that she feels you drifting away from her, she wants you again? She didn't love or respect you before, but now she does? I call bs. "Off with her head!" as they say in Iran lol

 

[marmel75]

The one constant in this thread is the OP gets walked all over by this woman in virtually every situation. Until you stop allowing it to happen, every relationship will follow the same pattern eventually.

Might as well get the word "Door Mat" tattooed on your forehead because that's what they see by your actions.

 

[PantyWhisperer]

@wanderlust Good idea putting professionals on the case.

You still claim she loves you, but you only mention what she wants from you. She was taking love, not giving it like a person who loves another normally does.

To love is to give. Sure she wants to be loved, but you don't love her so you either can't or you gotta pretend to give it.

The give and take dynamic is extremely important, which way does the scale lean in your marriage? Do you give more than her?

Truth ^^ Women confuse their taking of love with actual love. They act like they are doing you a favor by "allowing" you to love them while giving nothing back. They treat love like they treat the bill at a restaurant. She's not even gonna fake flinch when the server drops the tab. It's your job to pay and you should be glad.

 

[Trunks]

Wonder how this turned out, now that Trump is in the WH.