"I thought you were different"

[apprenticedj]

IMO, and it's just my opinion, your ABC mentality is a problem. It's very common once we get involved in game and the DJ school of thought to feel that we need to be smashing every girl within a few hours. Hooking up that fast definitely does happen but it's not the norm. In fact hooking up that fast, on a regular basis, is more about READING SIGNALS.

You stated that you were lying down holding hands when you tried the first time, had you kissed at this point?

 

[Vulpine]

Learn from it and know this in the future:

If you hear "I thought you were different" or "I'm not that kind of girl"...


you're about to fail the sh¡t test which has just been deployed.

Those two phrases should sound the alarm in your head:

*BZZZT!* *BZZZT!* ¡¡CONGRUENCE CHECK ALERT!! *BZZZT!* *BZZZT!*

:yes: Sorry, you failed it. Most of us have before we caught on.

The first pickup I ever made in my life was using this opener. I was on the subway sitting next to this hot asian girl and at the other end of the car were a bunch of roudy high-school kids who were play-fighting and saying the most lewd and inappropriate things really loud, generally causing a big scene. A few older people were put-off and moved to another car. I turned to the girl, shook my head and said, "Kids, these days". She was like , "I know! Can you believe how these guys are carrying on? It's so embarrassing!" We talked for a bit about the declining standards of education and how kids were getting dumberer. <-- she laughed at my mispronunciation, and then her stop came up.

As she was gathering her things to leave, I told her that the streets were a dangerous place full of stupid thugs and asked if she wanted to be escorted home by a strong man who would protect her. I was expecting her to say "no thanks" like all the other girls I had unsuccessfully tried to hit on, but she surprised me by saying "sure!" I walked her home and she said she was hungry so we grabbed dinner and afterwards went for a moonlit stroll. We made-out in the park for awhile and she suggested we go to a bar. I didn't drink at all back then so I politely declined. We went back to our necking and right when things are gettin hot, she pulls away from me.

ME: Hey, what's wrong?
HER: I think I should probably go home. It's getting late.
ME: That is a lame excuse. What is really up?
HER: I dunno ... It just feels kinda weird cuz I never do this with someone I just met.
ME: Me neither!
HER: (looking in my eyes as if to gauge my sincerity)

Here is when she drops what we call a shyt-test. Watch as I fail miserably!

HER: You are probably just like all the rest and only want one thing.
ME: What do you mean?
HER: You are just interested in sex!
ME: Well, um....at least I am honest! (BZZZZZZT...wrong answer!)
HER: I am going home now.

Aaaaargh! I still wanna put my head through a wall for messing this one up! I should have accused her of trying to get in MY pants, since she was the one who had suggested we go to a bar earlier so she could get me drunk and take advantage of my lowered inhibitions! *Sigh* We will cover this tactic of role reversal a little later. For now, let me steer this tangent back to the subject at hand.

The long-and-short of it breaks down like this:
You were doing well at being a man, sweeping her off her feet.
So, she wanted to check to see that you were in fact the "real deal".
She spikes the brakes to gauge your reaction...
...you reacted contrary to your previous actions: supplication.
Thereby, you presented yourself as the true douche she suspected.
React with action next time, not words.
"How's this for different?" ...as you get up and walk away.
Blow out those sh¡t tests. Short-circuit their hamster game with actions. Don't pander to it, drop a hammer on it.
Anti-dump gets into this sort of trump-game.

Hit the bible and do some reading, perhaps run some searches for handling tests. Booze on an empty stomach will dull your wits. Be sure to drink less than your dates. Singles in a double-glass, "on-the-rocks" ****tails with a "water back"... never on an empty stomach. You need your wits to deal with these wiley rascals!

Anyway...

As we were walking, she said something about how she thought I was (more) intelligent, and that she thought I was "different". I responded dismissively and she stormed off. I waited a couple of seconds and left.

What should I do?

A better reaction would have been:
You: *GASP! Pause with a scowl* "Suddenly, I'm wondering what sort of garbage in your past you are comparing me to." *Walk off*

If she calls back at this point (because you are NC), you can still use this twist.
You: "I don't know what sort of garbage is in your past that you've compared me to, but that's not reflecting well on YOU. Handle your baggage." *click*

Congruence. You might have slipped, but get right back up with actions. Be sure to act insulted, because you should be.

No contact until she's begging.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

For future reference, if I want a relationship (although I don't want years-long ones, only a few months) around how many dates would you suggest before I try to move beyond kissing?

For starters, I don't understand this way of thinking. Like, why would you go into a dating situation with someone where the thought is "Wow - if this works out, I'll be able to date her for a few months and then end it!" Ideally, you'd be going into it with the thought that it would work out long-term, but that if it doesn't you'll be able to move on to someone else. There's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship - heck, relationships are GREAT to be in long-term once you find the right person, and much more satisfying than having a bunch of one night stands or random hook-ups.

Anyway... in answer to your specific question: each girl is different. Some girls will want to hook up after only 1 or 2 dates, while some girls may want to wait a couple of months or until they become the actual girlfriend. You have to be able to figure out their rhythm and listen to what they're saying they want. For example, a girl may say it takes her 2 months before she feels comfortable hooking up with someone. When she says this, you need to take her at her word because she legitimately feels like this is true IN THAT MOMENT. However, there are ways of making her change her mind and feel like she wants to have sex with you sooner than what she said:

1. Don't get into an argument with her about why she should change her mind - anytime you "should" a person, it makes them feel like you're trying to force them to do something, and people don't like that

2. Use the "Agree and Amplify" technique. Meaning: if she says "we shouldn't hook up for the first 2 months", agree (i.e. "You know what, that's a GREAT idea") and then amplify (i.e. "In fact, we should probably stretch it out to 6 months just so we can both make sure we're not using each other for sex," followed by a wink). This will usually make a woman realize the absurdity of her request

3. If you're already kissing on dates, work on crossing ONE boundary - for example, kiss her and then feel on her leg - and stay there for a while before moving on to another boundary. At the point where she says "STOP" or "no, not yet," it means she's cool with you doing the other stuff up to the last boundary you tried to cross.

4. The next time you see her, you'll now be able to use the previous boundaries as a starting point, which she's already comfortable with. As a result, any new boundaries you cross will be more accepted. Even if she stops you at some point, the new boundary she stops you at will be further than the previous one.

5. Always remember the "start and stop" technique as well. Once she allows you to cross some of her boundaries, it's going to start revving her up. Once you start seeing her get aroused by the stuff you're doing, find a reason to stop. For example: you're on her couch making out, feeling on her legs, maybe caressing her butt or breasts... stop, get up, get some water or go to the bathroom, then sit back down. Start watching TV again with your arms around her and don't do anything. After about 2 minutes, start kissing her again, then move down to her neck, then start feeling on her again... then tell her you need to check something in your car, get up and leave. All this "starting and stopping" is going to make her hornier and hornier, to the point where she'll probably start moving your hands towards her more sensual places to get her off faster.

These are just a few things you can do to get better results!

 

[IBreatheSpears]

She sent back "And what did you mean to be?". I don't think that really deserves a response because it seems like bait, but I'm tempted to say something like "Accept my apology or don't" so she understands I'm not going to let her drag anything more out of me. I volunteered a brief but sincere apology and that is all she is getting. Also I noticed that she has been active on tinder today, so she is probably lining up my replacement. The fact the response only comes now, some 5 hours after I sent it, could mean her plans fell through, but I'm not playing second choice.

You stated that you were lying down holding hands when you tried the first time, had you kissed at this point?

No, that came just after. It realise it was stupid to jump ahead. I have to get a better handle on my impulses.

If you hear "I thought you were different" or "I'm not that kind of girl"...


you're about to fail the sh¡t test which has just been deployed.

Well, I just asked in a flat tone "Different how?" and she said she didn't know. I didn't supplicate to her or get flustered or anything so I think I could have done much worse.

Be sure to act insulted, because you should be.

I was actually pretty mad when she left. The trains had stopped running and it took me 2.5 hours to get home (although that's my fault for not thinking about when the trains finished - the same would have happened in any case). I also think "I thought you were different" is really a thinly-veiled way of saying "You're not good enough" which I found insulting. After her recent text I don't think she deserves any more kind words.

why would you go into a dating situation with someone where the thought is "Wow - if this works out, I'll be able to date her for a few months and then end it!"

I think I'm too young for long-term, exclusive relationships. If it was non-exclusive then the duration wouldn't matter but I don't want to be with the same person for several years at the age of 20. I've only had two real relationships, and I don't want to reach 25 and that number is still only 3.

Anyway... in answer to your specific question: each girl is different. Some girls will want to hook up after only 1 or 2 dates, while some girls may want to wait a couple of months or until they become the actual girlfriend. You have to be able to figure out their rhythm and listen to what they're saying they want. For example, a girl may say it takes her 2 months before she feels comfortable hooking up with someone.

I don't think I would be willing to wait two months; I think one month is enough, but I would make an exception if I was getting sex from someone else.

Thanks a lot for the rest of your advice, I will be sure to remember it for the next time.

 

[Vulpine]

Well, I just asked in a flat tone "Different how?" and she said she didn't know.

Yikes, that's worse than Señor Fingers' example. At least HE got a direct answer, you were left guessing wtf she was talking about. Ughh... left in limbo of second guessing yourself.

Yep. Blown out. Always next time.:flowers:

 

[IBreatheSpears]

Yikes, that's worse than Señor Fingers' example. At least HE got a direct answer, you were left guessing wtf she was talking about. Ughh... left in limbo of second guessing yourself.

Yep. Blown out. Always next time.:flowers:

I wasn't second-guessing myself, I didn't care about her answer. My thinking was that I'd make her explain herself, or admit she didn't know what she was talking about, which she did. Obviously it didn't come off that way but that was what I was doing. I don't really need to know what she meant in her head, like Rollo has said, the medium is the message.

Thank you for your advice though. Also, re:

Booze on an empty stomach will dull your wits. Be sure to drink less than your dates. Singles in a double-glass, "on-the-rocks" ****tails with a "water back"... never on an empty stomach. You need your wits to deal with these wiley rascals!

She doesn't drink at all. I brought a bottle of vodka to share and she said she doesn't drink any more. So I started drinking it myself (on an empty stomach) and before I knew it I had drank more than half the bottle in less than an hour. I made so many mistakes, but it's starting to be funny now.

 

[apprenticedj]

No, that came just after. It realise it was stupid to jump ahead. I have to get a better handle on my impulses.

You hit the nail on the head. For me, it's all about building that rapport and reading signals. Think of it from her perspective for a minute, you meet some cute guy off Tinder, he seems sweet, you're having a great date in a PUBLIC park when all of the sudden, without any warning, he's trying to touch your cooch. I'd say her reaction was pretty much textbook.

You're laying there holding hands, great, but it's a pretty big jump to go for the holy grail with no build-up in between. You should be stroking her hand, laughing and joking. After she says something funny, or at least something you're pretending is funny, make sure to kiss her hand mid laughter so it seems casual, in the moment. Now you've just escalated one step. Then comes a real kiss, then a makeout, then go ahead and grab some tit*y.

My point is never forget the steps. You'll get better believe me, we've all done dumb sh*t while trying to mack on a cutie. Go NC on this one and wait for her to reach out to you and focus on getting some more Tinder dates.

 

[Jaylan]

OP,

Your age is apparent in how you handled your first date. Though the guys have already touched on what needed to be addressed, I will break things down as well;

1. Just because youre used to easy women, does not mean all women are easy. Who cares if women in your past had sex with you on the first date. The woman you want to date now is not from your past and is different from those other girls. You said it yourself that she is relationship material...so why would you treat her like a slvt that you dont respect?

When you are first meeting a good woman and she puts the breaks on, you listen to that. You don't ignore her and keep pressuring her. Its the first date, so if she says no, ease up. Tinder can be a hookup app, but tbh its a dating app. People use it for hookups and possibly finding something more. I know people who have found relationships on it as well as hookups. While plenty of women on it are easy and down for sex, there are also a lot of women who approach it like any other internet dating service.

Adjust your expectations and learn how to read signals.

2. Atmosphere is VERY important. Im a guy, and I wouldnt be keen on getting sexual in a park with a woman I just met. Id be concerned about my health, as well as where such a woman has been. Id be thinking "if this chick is trying to get it on in the middle of a park, in public, on day one, she must do this often". And Im sure similar thoughts ran through the head of the girl you were on a date with.

Things would have been a bit different in the privacy of an apartment or even a car. But even with that said, you dont get so pushy on the first date. You have to match your actions and intentions with the woman's.

3. Ive been saying this, and it requires its own section--Signal reading is EVERYTHING. Reading the way a woman kisses you and touches you will tell you if shes open to sex or not. I wouldnt expect a good woman on the first date in a park to be open to anything sexual right then and there. The atmosphere just isnt right. And likely the kissing would tell me that the moment isnt right. Hell, I wouldnt want to screw some chick I just met in the park, and my own kissing would reflect that.

Its different inside a room with privacy. Ive had quick hookups on first and second dates before. For example, on my first real night out (second meeting though) with this one girl a year or so ago, we ended up back at my friends house who I was staying with.

My friend went to his room with a girl from the bar, and my date and I had the living room to ourselves. We started kissing HEAVILY...very passionate...heavy breathing...hands really embracing one another without going below the belt-line. Without even going below the belt-line I knew she was primed for sex. When a woman kisses you a certain way and pushes her body again you a certain way, YOU JUST KNOW.

So I started kissing her neck, and letting my hands roam a bit between her thighs. When I got close to her V she didnt stop me, so I ended up taking her pants off and eventually gave her oral. I eventually came up to whisper in her ear "tell me what you want"....and she tells me she wants me inside her. She flips me into the chair and gives me some fantastic oral and actually finished me off. Soon we left and went to her place to have sex. I ended up seeing her casually for a month.

4. Learn to be OK when a woman isn't ready for sex. Also learn how to respond in the right way. You know how you can learn to naturally respond the right way when a girl pumps the breaks on sex? By not being thirsty. You are thirsty for sex and there's no denying it.

Its all good, and a lot of young guys will be thirsty and immature with situations like these, but you learn as you go along. Always Be Closing is a lame way to go about these things. Every situation is different, and you gotta pace yourself. By reading a woman's signals and not being desperate for a shag, youll respond naturally and maturely when a woman slows down escalation.

You know what I say when a woman says she's not ready? I say "That's fine, Im in no rush". What if she tells me that she's attracted to me, but isnt quite sure about sex? "Whatever you want babe, no biggie." How about if she says that she doesnt want me to think she's a slut, and that she doesnt normally let things happen this quickly? "I wouldn't think that about you, because I dont think that about myself. I dont normally act like this myself...but sometimes the moment feels right, ya know?"

And every one of those situations has happened to me, and every response I tell the woman is true. Im in no rush for sex, its no big deal if we dont have sex quickly, and I dont automatically see the girl as a slut if we happen to hook up within the first few dates. Sh!t happens and every situation is different. Sometimes people just click well and you enjoy the moment. With some girls things happened quickly, we enjoyed ourselves and dated for a bit. With other girls things didnt happen till later, and I waited until they were ready (within reason).

In every situation though, I follow up my response to their concerns by continuing to kiss them, but not pressuring them with sex right after. The woman needs to know you listened to her concerns and acknowledged them. Will I still mildly escalate? Sure...but I dont become overbearing. Im slight about it....maybe some neck kisses...maybe using my hands to trace her body. I definitely dont get grabby for her tits or crotch after she made it clear she wasnt cool with sexual stuff yet.


Anyways, OP...the big part here is reading signals. Theres no way to mistake when a woman wants you and is comfortable with moving forward. My successes with this have come after I have made my own blunders. By no means have I always handled these situations well. There were times where I said or did things that made a girl feel weird or uncomfortable. And there have also been times where I didnt do enough, and it was very possible I could have hooked up with that girl. You learn as you go along.

Good luck.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

I think I'm too young for long-term, exclusive relationships. If it was non-exclusive then the duration wouldn't matter but I don't want to be with the same person for several years at the age of 20. I've only had two real relationships, and I don't want to reach 25 and that number is still only 3.

This is a true/false statement. True, you are too young for a long-term situation IF you don't have certain things in your life set up (i.e. job, money coming in, your own place, etc.). However, it's false in the sense that people have, in fact, started relationships with people at your age (and younger) and made it work. Couples today who have been married 40 to 50 years or more were most likely in relationships as early as 15 or 16.

Now, this is not to say that you're at this place in your life for that kind of commitment. However, what you don't realize is (a) some of the girls you're dating ARE in the mode of looking for a long-term relationship; and (b) you don't need to have relationships with a whole bunch of women to be good with whomever you end up settling down with. Heck, it's actually a BETTER idea to date less people. I'm 32, and I've only had a few serious girlfriends and a LOT of hook-ups. And y'know what? None of those other hook-ups mean anything now that I've been with the same person for a while. It's a falsehood to think that you need to get with MORE women before getting serious - in reality, you need to work on yourself, build up both your lifestyle AND your confidence, and read books on how to treat (and keep) a woman happy, so that when that ONE woman comes along she'll be around for the long haul.

Think about it the opposite way: when you end up finding that one chick that means the world to you, are you really going to be like "but wait - did she date a whole bunch of other guys before me? 'Cause if she didn't, I don't think it's going to work out?" Of course not! Most guys on here would agree: the less d!cks that have been inside her, the better it is for YOU. Why? Less dudes = less baggage. And the same is true for you: the less women you date, the less chance you have of having excessive baggage, or lingering feelings for someone you dated 4 women ago before her. Now, if you so happen to end up dating a lot of women in the course of trying to find the right one, that's fine - but again, don't think that needs to be your GOAL. Once you find a woman that's great for you, you're going to find all those previous girls not even worth thinking about - so why add them to the harem in the first place?

Just some thought from someone who's dated and mated with a lot of women, and finds being in a relationship much more satisfying...

 

[IBreatheSpears]

I decided to follow the advice to go NC until she reaches out to me (which I am not holding out for). I sent her a brief apology already and her response left a sour taste in my mouth: I said, "[...] I didn't mean to be pushy [...]" and she replied "And what did you mean to be?". I think this is bait to get me to apologise more (as if apologising for apologising) so I'm tempted to reply with just "Accept my apology or don't" but I haven't; I'm going to wait at least a couple more days.

 

[Vulpine]

Im a guy

Oh? The vernacular of your posts leaves room for doubt. Sorry, it's just a bit, um... perhaps "flowery" is the best adjective. No troll, critical feedback.

I must acknowledge that I share a similar (granted somewhat old fashioned/chivalrous) sentiment as:

Atmosphere is VERY important. Im a guy, and I wouldnt be keen on getting sexual in a park with a woman I just met. Id be concerned about my health, as well as where such a woman has been. Id be thinking "if this chick is trying to get it on in the middle of a park, in public, on day one, she must do this often". And Im sure similar thoughts ran through the head of the girl you were on a date with.

"First time sex anywhere besides a bed" is (generally) tacky and disrespectful, as are excessive public displays of affection.

Her "I thought you were different" might have been in direct response to your demonstration of a lack of class. I can see how that angle has merit, definitely. Perhaps sucking down a gang of booze when in the company of a non-drinker didn't help her "lack of class" impression, either.

She has certainly given you some sticking points to work on, dude.

For kicks, at this point, you might send off a text something like this:

A friend just pointed out how tacky/un-classy I might've appeared to you.

If she responds nicely, take it to a...

I was so into your vibe that I didn't take notice of our surroundings

...sort of "magical place". Then start again from the very begging with her.

Or, if she stays "snatchy", take it to a C/F place instead, like:

I should've been drinking some single-malt scotch, not cheap ol' vodka.

The lauging/smiling/winking emotes are critical to convey the joke through the text.

 

[asa_don]

I thought we were a good match.

take all those "matches" on dating sites with a grain of salt, most matches are crap and aren't even matched correctly, they just want people to join the site, so they match you with anyone.

you cant find out you are a match until after you meet up, obviously you weren't a good match because she was turned off.

she thought you were a nice guy and got turned off when you started to become sexual, thats all that it is.

some other dude she wanted fvck would have her shirt off and she'd be riding him in 2 seconds.

nothing you can do here, dont chase after her, she is blaming you, but you did nothing wrong, plenty of other chicks on there bro, find one that will fvck and won't give you a hard time about it.

 

[IBreatheSpears]

take all those "matches" on dating sites with a grain of salt, most matches are crap and aren't even matched correctly, they just want people to join the site, so they match you with anyone.

you cant find out you are a match until after you meet up

By good match I just meant there was good chemistry when we met.

I thought I was past the whole LJBF shtick.

I'm not chasing her now anyway.

 

[IBreatheSpears]

Update: I have another date with her tonight. Here's how the conversation went, in full:

Me (day after first date): I want to apologise for last night. I didn't mean to be pushy. I'd like to see you again, I'll be on my best behaviour
Her (five hours later): And what did you mean to be?
Me (a day later): Sweeter than cherry pie
Her (five hours later): Fair enough.
Me (three days later): So, re my question: A) yes B) yes C) yes D) maybe (yes)?
Her (six hours later): Maybe.
Me (three days later): Tomorrow, same time & place
Her (the next morning): So <location> at 9?
Me (two hours later): 8 would be better
Her (five minutes later): Ok, I guess [emphasis mine] I'll see you then.

I'm picking up a possible flaky vibe, but it doesn't take long or cost much for me to get to our meeting place, so I'll go and if she doesn't turn up within 30 minutes I'll go home and never talk to her again.

I'll post again tomorrow about how it goes.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Me (day after first date): I want to apologise for last night. I didn't mean to be pushy. I'd like to see you again, I'll be on my best behaviour
Her (five hours later): And what did you mean to be?
Me (a day later): Sweeter than cherry pie.

That was a pretty good comeback.

I have to disagree to an extent with some of the advice given by other posters. While trying to have sex with a girl on the first date is not always a good idea, if it works for you with the vast majority of women that you meet (which is what you have suggested), then keep doing what you're doing because you're obviously doing something right (unless, of course, you're "dating" prostitutes or total ugs). Remember, it's always about what works for you. There are a million reasons why the same woman would sleep with one guy on the first date and make another one wait for weeks if not months. Contrary to what Gaylan said, just because a woman sleeps with you on the first date does not necessarily mean she is "easy" in general.

 

[dasein]

Didn't read whole thread. Keep them moving and active on dates, not laying on the back in parks, sitting on couches watching movies, across tables in restaurants, etc. When she said "I thought you were different," what that translates into is "you are boring the f-ck right out of me."

 

[Jaylan]

Update: I have another date with her tonight. Here's how the conversation went, in full:

Me (day after first date): I want to apologise for last night. I didn't mean to be pushy. I'd like to see you again, I'll be on my best behaviour
Her (five hours later): And what did you mean to be?
Me (a day later): Sweeter than cherry pie
Her (five hours later): Fair enough.
Me (three days later): So, re my question: A) yes B) yes C) yes D) maybe (yes)?
Her (six hours later): Maybe.
Me (three days later): Tomorrow, same time & place
Her (the next morning): So <location> at 9?
Me (two hours later): 8 would be better
Her (five minutes later): Ok, I guess [emphasis mine] I'll see you then.

I'm picking up a possible flaky vibe, but it doesn't take long or cost much for me to get to our meeting place, so I'll go and if she doesn't turn up within 30 minutes I'll go home and never talk to her again.

I'll post again tomorrow about how it goes.

She doesnt sound keen at all.

And why would you do the same date again for the second date? If she was turned off by how you behaved during the first date...why set the environment to remind her of the first date. No wonder shes apprehensive. How are you going to show her youre not trying to get into her pants, if youre being lazy and doing the same exact date with her in which things went bad?

You should wanna do something different and fun. Hopefully she doesnt flake...but in the future never repeat date ideas in the first few dates with a chick you actually dig a lot(and you do seem to like this chick). Show some more effort.

 

[IBreatheSpears]

Final update: it went really well, all things considered.

I changed the plans a couple hours before and told her to meet me somewhere else. I was going to take her to a comedy club, but the trains were messed up (there was a "security threat" at London Bridge station) so I was 30 minutes late and by the time we got to the comedy club it was full. So we walked and talked for a while, found somewhere to sit, and she looked up what was going on (I don't live in London most of the year, so I'm not very aware of club nights and such). We went to a club for a bit, she tried to make me dance and I said no, we made out a couple of times, and then went back to her place. Started watching a film but she fell asleep. We made out a few more times this morning, I tried to escalate further but she stopped me - but it wasn't awkward like last time, probably because I was sober. Got a good bit of necking, biting and tongue-kissing in (she said she doesn't like kissing with tongues "very much" but I did it anyway and she didn't mention it again) and I touched her a­ss a few times and rubbed her boob through her bra, but no more than that.

She told me that she got a "good vibe" from my apology. She also said that she feels like she barely knows anything about me, and asked how many girls I've slept with. I said "I lost count after 30" and she thought I was serious (which I took as a compliment); I told her I wasn't serious but it's a secret. She also tried to make plans with me for today, but I said I was busy (I'm not, but I don't want her taking up all my time). Anyway, at about midday I said "I should get going" and we parted with a few kisses.

I'm very aware that she's preventing me from escalating further than first base which makes me suspect she's trying to hold the frame. There's a chance she's leading me on, but she mentioned in passing that she thinks British girls are sl­utty which makes me think it's just ASD. She seems to be trying to be a little dominant -- probably testing me -- for example, she tries to put her hand on top of mine when we hold hands. But I went out with a French girl who was much worse and had no problem dominating her after a while, so I can deal with this one pretty easily.

I'll continue dating her for now and see what develops. When I move back to my main city I'll be much more on top of things (and I'll be seeing the French girl again).

 

[JdelaSilviera]

This is why I encourage guys to wait until SHE starts doing kino on YOU before you start trying to touch her. That also goes for advanced moves, especially on a first date. Reality check #1: Just because things are going great on a first date doesn't mean the girl is ready to jump into bed with you right away. Reality check #2: All the girls you had first date sex with, you're not currently with. Sooooooo... what that means is, if you're looking to get into an actual relationship with someone, the odds of it working out that way when sleeping with them too early on is NOT in your favor. Taking time to actually get to know her BEFORE hooking up with her will make her FEEL like you want her for more than sex, which will usually result in her being more comfortable with you and having HER suggest sex a lot faster.

I love your advice Harry. Just one thing, would you generally say that if a girl does not initiate kino she is not interested?