I think everybody's problems with women can be boiled down to a simple problem...

Atom Smasher

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Falfa said:
Gonna have to disagree with you here. I'd say that a man's genetics and fitness trump "fashion."

I go out to clubs in a $10 shirt I got from Zara and see the same results I'd get if I were wearing an overpriced, $80 Ralph Lauren shirt. So long as you're not going out of your way to look chitty, you should be fine.

Genetics and fitness mitigate physical unattractiveness. Clothing might hide it. At the end of the day, I'd say that it's a better long-term investment to dedicate yourself to fitness than to drop an obscene amount of money buying designer brands.

Maybe if you want to do that stuff after you've built a nice physique, I could judge it as appropriate.
I think what many of you are missing is that a man who pays attention to style will stand out way above the masses. Most men don't know how to dress and don't care, and women know it.

Women respond to subtle displays of power. A man who dresses well (just a little better than his peers) causes him to stand out big-time. Nobody mentioned "dropping an obscene amount of money buying designer brands". There is no need for that. All a man has to do to stand out is to dress just a little better than those around him. It conveys power and social awareness.

I'm surprised that more of you haven't noticed this in your own experiences. I'm not a bad looking guy, but even still it seems that nice clothing (again, just a little better than average) turns lots of heads. Some of them are even women!! ;)
 
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bigneil

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Falfa said:
Gonna have to disagree with you here. I'd say that a man's genetics and fitness trump "fashion."
Yes, I think it's closer to 15% genetics, 80% your physical shape and 5% what you wear. But that final 5% for dress can make the difference and bring a man from say a 6.6 to a 7.1. I wish it were more as I dress up most of the time.

Just about everyone looks beautiful when they are in top shape and a man can wear jeans and a T-shirt in that case.

Also remember that a man is going to feel "weak game" when the woman he loves is dumping him. She didn't dump him because he was weak when she dumped him. She dumped him when he was strong and that made him feel weak.

The key to strength is to go after what you want and let the inevitable pain of rejection inspire you to become stronger until you eventually get what you want.
 

zekko

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Atom Smasher said:
Women's language and economy tend to be clothing and acoutraments. Clothing speaks to them BIG-time, far more than it speaks to us.
I agree with all that. But I still think there's no way that 80% of a man's looks is what he wears. Not even close. Look at height, for instance. Even lifts can only do so much. Like Mike said, if a guy is genetically unattractive, dressing him up can only do so much.

On the other hand, a naturally good looking guy, you can dress him in practically anything and the girls will swoon. Tank top and jeans, and the girls couldn't be happier.

Mike32ct said:
I've always wondered why women are into shoes too. It's not a f o o t fetish. Only men have those.
That's because men have nasty looking feet.

Atom Smasher said:
Simple. Women tend to hate feet overall. They often dislike their own and they usually dislike other's. Shoes dress up and "fix" what to them is the ugliest part of the body.
If women don't like their own feet, why do they go barefoot so often?
 

Atom Smasher

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The actual percentage isn't really that important. The fact is that it's much higher than most think. I think this subject is a huge lapse in awareness in the community. In other words, I perceive that most men have no idea about the deep things that clothing communicates to women.

Clothing tends to smooth over and blurr what otherwise would be unattractive to women. It is a true analog to women's makeup. It is a billboard that screams out to them, "Here is what I think of myself and how I see my place in the world."

Most of those old, over-played sayings are based on solid truth. The old phrase, "Clothing makes the man" exists because well, clothing makes the man. It's universal.

Your clothing is your suit of armour. You decide whether to polish it and present yourself with self-respect or conversely to present your self as a man of neglect. We are talking subtleties here. It is very easy to rise above the competition with clothing and to compensate for a lack of good genes.

Again, we are talking about women's perceptions here, not men's. But come to think of it, isn't it true that if we are dealing with two men in any setting, with one being well dressed and the other very average, that we will extend more respect to the well-dressed man, DESPITE their innate looks? The armour is polished and therefore we know that the man is polished.

Men, I advise you to amp up your game with neat, well-fitting clothing. You will be very happy with the additional attention you get. Don't go overboard and get all metro... that's an extreme you don't want any part of. Women, in general, like subtle attention to personal neatness and hygiene while still maintaining a slight rough, unkempt edge.

Regarding feet, they go barefoot so often because it is ingrained in our culture. It's just the societal norm. Believe me, they are comparing their feet with each other constantly. I have actually walked in on women standing in a circle with one shoe off comparing their feet, LOL. I've seen that at least 4 times.

I've read many polls where women are asked which is the most disliked part of their body. Overwhelmingly the majority say "my feet".

Since they dislike feet on a core level, they LOVE anything that enhances their appearance. Hence their fascination with shoes. WHen a woman evaluates a man, just watch her. Face first, then right down to the shoes. She can tell a lot about you from your shoes. Every time I wear nice shoes (not expensive, just clean and polished if leather), I get compliments and "the look".

In business and in personal life, I personally will judge any man on how he presents himself with his clothing. I will not be nearly as concerned with genetic good looks as I am with presentation. It works that way with women, too. They are looking for presentation. Clothing does indeed make the man.
 

zekko

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Again, I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of what you're saying, Smasher, just the percentages. I think you're giving way too much weight to the clothes and not enough to genetics. I agree clothes are important, but I don't see them having 16 times as much value as your natural genetic appearance.

Also, a lot of how a guy dresses has a lot to do with his profession, what area of the country he lives in, and what he's doing at the time. I'm not going to dress up in a suit to go get some gas for my mower, for example.

Regarding feet, I am certainly not one of these foot fetish guys, I've never been that fond of feet either. But there is something about a barefoot woman that suggests nudity. It's like you follow the nakedness of her foot up her legs and on from there lol.
 

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Your bulletproof game, ego, and charming personality won't make you look any better with your shirt off. Or on.
 

Falfa

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I'm still trying to figure out why the subject of looks seems to assume primacy in the attraction formula for so many of you guys.
 

zekko

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Falfa said:
I'm still trying to figure out why the subject of looks seems to assume primacy in the attraction formula for so many of you guys.
I wouldn't say looks are of prime importance except in the sense that they are the first thing a girl notices about you. It's the first test you have to pass.

It's just that looks makes everything easier. If you are good looking, girls will tell you that you are hot. I know we are supposed to be completely self validated, but I don't think that's totally realistic. It's a heck of a lot easier to be confident with girls and develop your inner game when you know women think you are hot.

In contrast, I remember a poster here who said girls even told him he was ugly. And this guy was making a valiant effort to increase his confidence and develop his inner game. He worked out like a fiend. But you could see that everything, everything pertaining to women was an uphill battle for him. Compared to guys who make a simple tweak like "Hey, yesterday I learned to be indifferent and now I have five plates!".
 
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