I seek career guidance!

[Taviii]

I just found out the results for the 6 exams I took these last 2 weeks. I got 9,43 , with the maximum grade being 10, so I did pretty good, not really in the top 10 or something but pretty good anyway.

With this grade and the ones from my last 4 years of school I have the possibility to choose between more universities.

I feel that I would like to do something with computers in my life, but I'm not really sure if this is MY path. Also I really would like to have my own business, so please consider this when you write your reply.

Here are the ones I consider joining:

-Polytechnic Institute, big reputation, something like the MIT in the USA. Here I could choose something like: metallurgy and materials engineering, mechanical engineering, manufacturing engineering, environmental engineering, industrial engineering but NOT computer engineering, my grades are too low for it.

or

-Vest University, low reputation compared too the Polytechnic, but I could get in an computer science major or physics major. A disadvantage is that if you do this school you wont be an engineer, and I'm sure it would sound good in front of my name

My questions is, what are the advantages of being an engineer?

How much work does he do?

How much money does he make?

Is a major in computer science more of a future job than engineering?

In which domain is it easier to make your own firm and develop a small company?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Wouldn't all those types of engineering at least work with computers in some way? It sounds complex, and I am guessing computers play a substantial part. Regardless, imo you should go to the better school, Polytechnic, so that you create as many opportunities for yourself as possible.

 

[Centaurion]

<-- former Mech(aeronautical)-Eng and Commerce student (dropped out after finishing 2nd year)


First off, before you go into the engineering field, sit down and ask yourself how motivated you are. Do you find the engineering field interesting? Do you like solving complex questions? Do you like math? Do you like physics? Are you passionate about your chosen engineering field? Are you willing to buckle down and study your ass off for the next 4 years?

If your answer to any of these questions is not 'HELL YEAH!', then you really should look into something else.

Trust me when I say this, studying engineering is a lot of work. In my 2nd year, second semester we had 38 (!) projects due in a 6 week period. One of the 'easier' projects consisted of 15 thermo-dynamics questions. I swear to ****ing God, ONE question took me 5 days to solve (and I graduated from the most prestigious HS in Norway with a top GPA)! Heh, I remember one day we showed up at some lecture, the lecturer was not there, and on the blackboard it just said "Design a gear system for a top of the line racing car. Due in 2 weeks". Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

I'm not saying this to scare you off or anything, but you REALLY have to be motivated if you intend to stay the duration of the course.

Now, I'm not saying it's like this at every university, but considering that Polytechnic Institute is compared to MIT, I assume it is the case there as well (or even worse).

 

[Steg]

Well I'm in what I guess is college (A level ) probably going engneering for studying (no reall choice and dont know what else to do really). Now I dont know how you do it over there but we need to have some specific subjects (and make the grade) to study it. For us it's physics, chemistry and maths to full A level standerd (that means 6 modules each).

 

[MrS]

Sounds tough, Centaurion.
But yeah, you would think engineering is. Involves a lot of different knowledge and fields, needs you to think inside and out of the box, then again engineering nowadays are very prestigious jobs.

 

[Le Parisien]

As a former Engineering and Comuter Science guy who successfully reconverted into marketing before even hitting the job market, I have a lots of things to share on the topic.

- First, just like Centaurion said, you better be sure that the field you are choosing is (at least right now) the "love of your life". Because engineering degrees mean a lot of hard work, you need good motivation on the long run to achieve success.

- Should you choose on reputation or study fields? This is a tough question. In my opinion, it's a compromise between the two. It also largely depends on how the job market in your country works.
For example in France, the reputation of your school is everything. For high pay jobs, the employers consider that "bigger" (tougher to get in and to graduate) school means better potential. Anyway college is short(4-5 years) and many people spend these years partying/having fun anyway, so what you actually learn in one specific field is NOT that important. It's about acquiring solid basis and having a great potential.
At the same time, in the States, if I studied Aerospace engineering, even at MIT, it would be pretty difficul for me to get a great computers related job at junior level at Microsoft or Intel.
I don't know how things are like in Romania

- The "good" fields vary greatly from one country to another.
If it's for the United States, then material science/engineering and environmental engineering for example would be great fields. Because these are sciences of the future, compared to other more traditional fields such as chemical engineering or mechanical engineering.
But the big reason behind is that America just like many western european countries are rich and developed countries with huge technological advances, they are the ones who have the technology, the equipment, the knowledge the market and especially the money. In other words, these countries are in need of qualified people in these fields.
I'm sorry this may sound cliché, but Romania is still struggling with the vestige of the soviet era, the priority is having bread on the table and having economic development. Who cares about the environment right now? And it definitely doesn't produce any world grade advanced materials. Even in more traditional fields such as the automobile industry, Dacia is far behind the world standard. The Logan designed with extensive "help" from Reanult is pretty decent for Romania, but it's at least 10 to 15 years behind.

So right now, I'd say for Romania, a more traditional engineering field would be pretty good. Like mechanical engineering and manufacturing engineering or industrial engineering.

- About computer science/engineering and everything related, it's actually very tricky. For the following reasons:
1) It's a "fashionable" field, everybody's talking about IT or doing it. And there's need everywhere
2) But the "entry cost" is pretty low, anyone with a good brain and a computer can do it. (Sorry for the oversimplification, but it's somewhat the truth). Are you prepared to compete for salaries that are lower and lower against people from India, and maybe later on Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and so on???... Anyone in the world with intelligence and some proper education will be willing to and able to work in this field. Just look at how many Amercan engineers in this field are complaining that jobs are going overseas to other developing countries.
3) IT is a "wearing" field. You are very happy about it when you are young because it doesn't require too much experience to get in, but 10 to 15 years down the road, you will realize that you are threatened by other young guys who are faster than you and who cost less to the employers. It's such a fast changing world that long term experience has little to no value, contrary to most other fields where the more experience you have, the better your market value will be(doctors, accountants, mathematicians etc...). Basically what you know about IT now will probably be useless in ten to 15 years because everything would have changed. Just ask the computer engineers who studies in the early 80s and who know Cobol (do you even know what it is?) like no one else, do people still care about that?

- Did I mention that depending on the field you choose, the probabilty that you will meet hot chicks on a regular basis also varies a lot!
Sure you are gonna say "hey but I'm a social person and I don't care, I meet chicks outside of work anyway". Trust me, I was exactly thinking like you when I finished highschool. And the consequence in this regard was devastating. Fortunately I had a career change for other reasons, but let's say that in the past two years, I met more hot chicks that I ever did during my six years as a brilliant engineering and science student.
Trust me, it's not really about you, it's about your social circles. If you stay in a dominantly male field long enough, most of your friends are gonna be exactly like you: a male who counts on his friends to meet hot girls or even just girls, but they only know guys, their friends and the friends of their friends are also guys or ugly chicks.
Think about this analogy: rich people know other rich people, poor people know other poor people. No one said poor people can't know rich people, it's just doesn't happen very often for so many reasons...

- Finally, we can only share our thoughts. Listen to your heart, it has the final word.

 

[noneother]

great thread

 

[Taviii]

Regardless, imo you should go to the better school, Polytechnic, so that you create as many opportunities for yourself as possible.

This is the big advantage of Poly. I'm sure that an employer would choose someone with a better background if the decision would be hard to make.

 

[Taviii]

<-- former Mech(aeronautical)-Eng and Commerce student (dropped out after finishing 2nd year)

What did you do after dropping out? Did you start another school or did you get a job? Do you regret dropping out? Do you think that you would have been better off with the university degree in your pocket?

Like you mentioned, I now it is though! I have friends there and they admitted that studying for the test in which I got 9,43 is a joke compared to the difficulty of that specific university. After the first year they hated it, after the second they began to like it, because they got used to it but mostly because of the opportunities that arise, I know that companies like Siemens offer a whole bunch of contracts to people from Poly, even before they finish the university. Having a salary compared to the ones in Northern and Western Europe while still living where people make 7-8 times less, is great.

 

[Taviii]

I'm sorry this may sound cliché, but Romania is still struggling with the vestige of the soviet era, the priority is having bread on the table and having economic development. Who cares about the environment right now? And it definitely doesn't produce any world grade advanced materials. Even in more traditional fields such as the automobile industry, Dacia is far behind the world standard. The Logan designed with extensive "help" from Reanult is pretty decent for Romania, but it's at least 10 to 15 years behind.

Surprisingly for me what you said is true but you have to keep in mind that from the 1st of January 2007 Romania will be a member of the EU. What does that mean in terms of the discussion we have here? It means that the laws will be aligned to the laws of developed countries that you mentioned so the enviroment, and other not so usual problems we had until now will rise on the front page, where they are in other developed regions of Europe. It also means that I could work everywhere, not just here.

As a matter of fact most students that finish Poly work abroad. I'm sure you see what I'm trying to say: its exactly the same as with what you said about computer science. With the current development of East European countries you cant focus on traditional field, because when I will be 30-35 they will probably be behind the new fields that you mentioned, material engineering etc

As a former Engineering and Computer Science guy who successfully reconverted into marketing before even hitting the job market, I have a lots of things to share on the topic.

Why did you reconvert into marketing? If you didn't even work in the domain you studied, weren't the years you studied "lost"?


Thanks all you guys for responding! It really helped me see this dilemma from another perspective, different from the perspective people around me have.

I hope you and others will write more valuable insights!

 

[Le Parisien]

Why did you reconvert into marketing? If you didn't even work in the domain you studied, weren't the years you studied "lost"?

Since we are talking about my career choices, I will share more with you. People all love talking about themselves right?

First, I need to give you some specificities of the French educational system in order to make my choices more understandable.

- After high school graduation, you have two choices. First is the traditional "university", basically anyone who passed the high school graduation exam (le Baccalauréat, or "le Bac") can go to university. And since eduaction is virtually free in France, anyone who has at least 10 out of 20 (the French use 20 as their grading scale instead of 100, don't ask me why...) can go to university or college for the American folks here

- And then there's the "royal path": the preparatory classes that usually last two years which prepare you to the entry exams to the prestigious and highly selective "Grandes Ecoles", Grand Schools in English if you prefer. The task is like the world cup, they don't care how good you are, you need to be better than the other candidates.

- The "Grande Ecoles" usually only admit 200 to 300 students a year, they go to the school only with a general "major" in mind, the specialization comes only at the last year of their studies. These pestigious schools are usually of one of two types: business oriented or engineering/science oriented. So the first teaches everything business related, the second type teaches "general engineering": basically very broad but solid teaching in many fields, maths, physics, metallurgy, EE, computer science, fluid mechanics, Thermodynamics, English, Spanish etc etc...



After high school, since I had really great grades in everything, especially maths, I thought hey a big name "grande école" would be great for me. Basically with the reputation of the school, I can do whatever I want: science, business, finance, whatever... Just need to get into a big name school then I'm part of the elite...
So I went for engineering. Two years later, I got into one of the big "grandes écoles", studies for two years (it makes 2 + 2 = 4), and the last year (grande école usually takes 3 years to accomplish, plus the previous two years of preparatory classes) I said to myself: I really like America, and if I want to be part of sucessful elite, I'd better go there to study and see how things are. Plus I will speak really good American English afterwards.
So I went to Penn State for a master's in computer science. Why computer science? Because nowadays, computers/IT is everywhere, it concerns every aspect of our life. It would be a great thing to know computers and IT in general. It's like English and other foreign languages, it's not enough by itself, but it's a great useful tool wherever you go. Plus the American system just like everywhere else, I can't say "hey I'm from France, I want to get a general education from your university", I needed to choose a specific major. I had colleagues from my French school who chose aeropsace engineering, material science or manufacturing or industrial engineering. Since we are the crème de la crème in the French system in terms of intellectual capacity, no matter what we took, we were all pertty successful although we never got any specialized training in each specific field.

Then two years later I got my master's. At that time I could have chosen to start working. But during my two year saty in the US, doing my thesis and research work "seriously" as any other nerdy computer science guy, I realized this is not for me. Sure I was good at it, but it doesn't fit my character. I'm a very social person and I need new challenges in a short period of time. I can't stand sitting in front of computer screen all day, and I can't stand working on the same thing for many years just to publish a great paper. As great as it can be, it's still just one paper.
Not to forget the things I said earlier: no HBs to be found. The only place where computer sciences guys can meet hot women regularly is the clubs and bars. And we all know that quality women are few and far between at this kind of places.
Sure I didn't stop my engineering/science career because of women, but it's a side advantage that I really do appreciate.

So why marketing then?
Actually my goal has always been to succeed in the corporate world, working for big multinational companies.
I did what I did in France to gain status in this specific job market, I studied in the US for the whole cultural/linguistic/discovery thing, now I need to get back to business/"business" ...
For that I chose marketing, I applied and got admitted to the most prestigious business school in France: HEC. I chose marketing because it's close to the products and it's close to the market, thus the customers. It has a pivotal role in most companies that make/sell goods.


So basically I did what I did because it was the best combination for me in the specific French context. If I went for business school directly, I won't have the opportunity to study in the US for two years due to "scheduling conflicts".
What I learned was not lost, because the whole time, I never went deep into specialization in any specific field. Even for my master's degree in computer science, I took classes in business, finance, Spanish, mobile networking(cellphones), I took as many non computer related classes as the rules would allow me to.
Now I'm petty set to be the perfect manager because I have knowledge in so many fields. It's not enough to make decisions on my own, but it's enough to understand the experts when they actually give their opinions, whether it's concerning finance, IT, R&D or advertisement or any other stuff...
Ok, for now, I'm just a "new guy" in the "big house", no big chief yet, but all this prepares me for the future...



If I was in another education system, I would have gone for a business or finance major in a big school directly after high school.


Sorry for the paragraphs that are purely for self aggrandizement on my part...

 

[Centaurion]

What did you do after dropping out? Did you start another school or did you get a job? Do you regret dropping out? Do you think that you would have been better off with the university degree in your pocket?

lol

I didn't drop out of university, just out of engineering/commerce. I'm going to study either Law or Pharmacy to the fall (I'll know which one in 9 days!!!).

Basically after the 2nd year I looked back at what I had achieved, and it wasn't really that much. I'd passed all my classes (some on the second try though), but to be succesfull in the engineering field you can't just pass your classes, you have to be good. Damn good. Factor in that Australia is on the ****ing other side of the world. I decided to call it quits and cut my losses short.

After bumming around from November till May, I decided enough was enough, so I went to Turkey to start up a Tourism and Real Estate Agency. And let me tell you, if you want to be an entrepenour, your degree doesn't mean ****. I soon realized that all the macro/micro-, accounting-, finance classes I took in Australia was pure bull****.

What they teach at university, and what is out there in the real world are two different things. Do you really think that some stuck up 60 year old professor really knows how it is to start up a company in a very dynamic dog-eat-dog world? HELL NO.

 

[Taviii]

Bump. Ok, so far I realized this:

-Poly will give you more chances but only go there if you are willing to work pretty damn hard in school.

-the university wont give you the experience required in business

-the IT domain is influenced greatly by outsourcing and this could affect you in the future

Any other opinions? I have less than a week to decide.

 

[grinder]

Don't get into IT. Its very unstable and engineering incomes are going DOWN thanks to the global market.

 

[Caesar20]

engineers will be the slaves of the 21st century, one of my professors said.

 

[madgame]

First off, before you go into the engineering field, sit down and ask yourself how motivated you are. Do you find the engineering field interesting?

Pretty well put..I know one guy who studied computer science, gave it up right away and now is stuck in another engineering major and told me he thinks it was stupid of him to do that, because he was too focused on getting a lot of money later in life...

I know a lot of guys who think like that..that engineering/computer science will automatically mean they'll get more money or whatever...but if you take a look at the starting and average salaries etc. you see that in business the starting/average salaries are basically on the same level as in engineering/computer science (at least it's like that in germany..and i've heard in the U.S. business degrees are pretty well-renowned also). So if you're not heavy on math and only wanna do it cause u think ull earn a lot of money, I'd take business over engineering any day. If you really like math engineering and computer science are great, too, of course.

But don't let them fool you...just b/c some ppl say engineering is the best paid thing whatever it doesnt mean what it is..google for average and starting salaries and compare it to different jobs..computer science/engineering/business management/maths...all of that is basically on the same level. One thing for example which I find funny is that a lot of ppl I know who study an engineering field kinda boast with it, b/c they assume they'll have a great salary right away, b/c their major is supposedly the major in the highest demand, etc. but then again every third guy I know is studying that b/c they heard it pays....but I guess you can figure, that the demand won't be anywhere close to as high as some ppl told them, cause everyone jumped on that bandwagon...

However as you're thinking of starting your own business maybe something interdisciplinary between business and computer science or business and engineering might be nice for you...

Basically I think engineering, computer science, business (which includes marketing etc.)....also law for example...are all great majors, but PLEASE don't choose one just b/c you think it pays...if money is important to you, choose a major that pays, but that also interests you...at least enough to get the motivation to study it (and work in that field afterwards ;-))

 

[madgame]

First off, before you go into the engineering field, sit down and ask yourself how motivated you are. Do you find the engineering field interesting?

Pretty well put..I know one guy who studied computer science, gave it up right away and now is stuck in another engineering major and told me he thinks it was stupid of him to do that, because he was too focused on getting a lot of money later in life...

I know a lot of guys who think like that..that engineering/computer science will automatically mean they'll get more money or whatever...but if you take a look at the starting and average salaries etc. you see that in business the starting/average salaries are basically on the same level as in engineering/computer science (at least it's like that in germany..and i've heard in the U.S. business degrees are pretty well-renowned also). So if you're not heavy on math and only wanna do it cause u think ull earn a lot of money, I'd take business over engineering any day. If you really like math engineering and computer science are great, too, of course.

But don't let them fool you...just b/c some ppl say engineering is the best paid thing whatever it doesnt mean what it is..google for average and starting salaries and compare it to different jobs..computer science/engineering/business management/maths...all of that is basically on the same level. One thing for example which I find funny is that a lot of ppl I know who study an engineering field kinda boast with it, b/c they assume they'll have a great salary right away, b/c their major is supposedly the major in the highest demand, etc. but then again every third guy I know is studying that b/c they heard it pays....but I guess you can figure, that the demand won't be anywhere close to as high as some ppl told them, cause everyone jumped on that bandwagon...

However as you're thinking of starting your own business maybe something interdisciplinary between business and computer science or business and engineering might be nice for you...

Basically I think engineering, computer science, business (which includes marketing etc.)....also law for example...are all great majors, but PLEASE don't choose one just b/c you think it pays...if money is important to you, choose a major that pays, but that also interests you...at least enough to get the motivation to study it (and work in that field afterwards ;-))

 

[Taviii]

It's official now, I'm a student at the mechanical engineering faculty from the Polytechnic in Timisoara.

That means mathematics and physics all along :crazy:

Oh and one more thing: a friend of mine from the third year just told me that its the hardest major from the western half of my country

 

[Bible_Belt]

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Good luck.

 

[Centaurion]

lol

Good luck man!

You'll need it.