I need help as I keep turning first dates into platonic hangouts, what to do?

[Sebastian0001]

I still think that's a bit direct, but depends how attracted she is. Asking a girl what her favorite position is too early could backfire. Mentioning those things to her would be better after you've already established touching with her.

I've found what works better during the banter stage is getting her to qualify herself to you. You want her to be in a position where she is justifying herself to her - you do this by asking her why she made certain life choices, in a non-judegmental way, and just get her to start explaining herself to you (but this is subtle. You don't want it to be an interrogation. You want it to be light, fun and teasing).

Escalating with strategic touching, vibe and eye contact brings even more mystery to it. Let her mind fantasize on its own. If you can just emit a sexual vibe without saying anything overly sexual then I've found this works best.

You'll discover that she might even start to try and close you. She might suddenly blurt out something like "So, do you have type?" - if she starts asking questions like that then you are in the driver's seat bigtime.

good points, is it ever ok to ask a woman if she has a type? Any examples of convo starters which would lead to having a sexual vibe without actually saying anything overtly sexual? This is exactly what I want to do but putting it into practice is the hard part.

 

[Fruitbat]

You can blame the OP technique in not escalating but if a woman wants you or not she will know in about 5 mins of talking to you.

I’ve had some girls I could have literally said anything and they’d still be all over me. Others, I could try any “game” and theyd tell me to p1ss off.

Why escalating sexually verbally and non verbally is good is it will get you to “yes” or “no” quicker.

you can try any of the nonsense dancing to get your answer, or you could: she’s on a date with you. Both have a couple of drinks. When you’re moving from bar to restaurant or whatever just try and kiss her. If she freaks, you just say “sorry - we are on a date together no?”

I don’t think there is much that can be done with words. Girls either like you or they don’t. Your words are important as to how you interact with the world, but there is no “sales technique” which talks a woman into having sex with a guy they don’t want to have sex with.

dating is a numbers game. If she’s throwing out that ambiguity why waste your time when you have another 4 BN to go at?

I always Escalated in physical terms not verbal. Yea, I had some cringe moments. I had one or two “what you doing!!”
if you’re secure enough to laugh and say - ****, I misread that! Then you’re good,

in reality you kind of know before you lunge what the answer will be.

my wife, on our first date we went for food. Then I took her home in my car but I drove to a beautiful bridge near me and said I wanted to see the view with her. Kissed her on the middle, romance novel style, and she was very keen thereafter. Chicks dig all that “take it if you want it” shyt. Don’t ask.
obv this isn’t a rapists charter. Don’t forget that if they run off not to pursue

this is where incels get it wrong with all their “gentleman” BS. They see confident men as brash and ill mannered. It’s courage, it takes courage to take your shot at a girl you like. It’s cowardly to ask a girl “can I kiss you? Do you like me?” Before you lunge.
it’s the very fact that you didn’t know if you were wanted but you assumed it and went for what you wanted which girls like.
As I say, in reality you may pick up social cues anyway, but you gotta accept you gonna take one or two rounds of rejection if you want to succeed in any aspect of life.
gettjnf rejected occasionally means your pushing life hard and being courageous

 

[Zimbabwe]

Why escalating sexually verbally and non verbally is good is it will get you to “yes” or “no” quicker.

Exactly, the whole point of direct game is to get rid of time wasters.

fair enough, i think you are 100% correct and I appreciate the bluntness. I am far too timid at this point, its a mindset issue. In a way, ist good that its just a mindset issue because a mindset issue can be improved upon

We all start somewhere, at least you're in the right place and willing to learn. It just takes more practice really, if your mindset is the problem find the root cause of that issue.

Start getting into self improvement to improve your smv so you are more attractive to a wider range of women.

 

[derby1]

how? isn't the whole point of DJ and sosuave that ppl who waste time saving a ho and who don't know what they are doing with women tend to fail with women? how would they still get laid?

No its a numbers game, having game is just the icing on the cake.

too much smooth operator and she will think your a player

I would go as far as to say women in 2021 dont want a masculine man, they are architects of their own misery and want a beta provider they can control, to feed their narcissism.

the only way the alpha card works is if you earn 200k, she will submit to you them.

alpha vibes in a 1 bedroom flat, she wont want the hassle of complying. she will want sex with you thats all.

 

[andreihaha]

what if the topic of sex was brought on in a more conservative way? Maybe something like what is your view on sex? Or are you a virgin? Or some kind of bs emotional question like do u think there is a difference between spiritual sex and lust sex and why do u think its different? The point of all this being to get her mind on talking to you about sex which then makes her mentally connect you and sex which could ultimately be a good thing.

Nah, the sexualisation whould be used in a subtle way. Through words that hint at it. Or your mood and gestures even.
But that's just me.

You used the word "lust" in you comment, the moment you use "lust" when talking to a woman, her mind goes to sex without you saying "sex".
Again, that's what I do.

Women like to talk about sex, but exploring the subject too much and too soon can mess your chances of actually having sex with her.
Because if you're all "Sex this, sex that", the tension disappears. And with no tension, you're gonna be talking like friends.
So keep the tension building 'till the inevitable climax, be subtle.

Good luck.

 

[Sebastian0001]

You can blame the OP technique in not escalating but if a woman wants you or not she will know in about 5 mins of talking to you.

I’ve had some girls I could have literally said anything and they’d still be all over me. Others, I could try any “game” and theyd tell me to p1ss off.

Why escalating sexually verbally and non verbally is good is it will get you to “yes” or “no” quicker.

you can try any of the nonsense dancing to get your answer, or you could: she’s on a date with you. Both have a couple of drinks. When you’re moving from bar to restaurant or whatever just try and kiss her. If she freaks, you just say “sorry - we are on a date together no?”

I don’t think there is much that can be done with words. Girls either like you or they don’t. Your words are important as to how you interact with the world, but there is no “sales technique” which talks a woman into having sex with a guy they don’t want to have sex with.

dating is a numbers game. If she’s throwing out that ambiguity why waste your time when you have another 4 BN to go at?

I always Escalated in physical terms not verbal. Yea, I had some cringe moments. I had one or two “what you doing!!”
if you’re secure enough to laugh and say - ****, I misread that! Then you’re good,

in reality you kind of know before you lunge what the answer will be.

my wife, on our first date we went for food. Then I took her home in my car but I drove to a beautiful bridge near me and said I wanted to see the view with her. Kissed her on the middle, romance novel style, and she was very keen thereafter. Chicks dig all that “take it if you want it” shyt. Don’t ask.
obv this isn’t a rapists charter. Don’t forget that if they run off not to pursue

this is where incels get it wrong with all their “gentleman” BS. They see confident men as brash and ill mannered. It’s courage, it takes courage to take your shot at a girl you like. It’s cowardly to ask a girl “can I kiss you? Do you like me?” Before you lunge.
it’s the very fact that you didn’t know if you were wanted but you assumed it and went for what you wanted which girls like.
As I say, in reality you may pick up social cues anyway, but you gotta accept you gonna take one or two rounds of rejection if you want to succeed in any aspect of life.
gettjnf rejected occasionally means your pushing life hard and being courageous

If the woman really does determine in the first 5 minutes if she wants you or not, then that would imply its all about the looks? Everything we have learned about women is that they are not the same as men in focusing on looks as the main driver of attraction - they use all the senses in being attracted including listening and touch which is why it is common to see below average guys with attractive women. What does "BN" mean? Also, when you are supposed to be taking the girl home but instead take her to some isolated bridge view, I think a lot of girls would freak out, especially if its the first date. It works only after repoire has been established and she is very clearly into you in my opinion. You kissed her on the middle of what?

 

[Sebastian0001]

Nah, the sexualisation whould be used in a subtle way. Through words that hint at it. Or your mood and gestures even.
But that's just me.

You used the word "lust" in you comment, the moment you use "lust" when talking to a woman, her mind goes to sex without you saying "sex".
Again, that's what I do.

Women like to talk about sex, but exploring the subject too much and too soon can mess your chances of actually having sex with her.
Because if you're all "Sex this, sex that", the tension disappears. And with no tension, you're gonna be talking like friends.
So keep the tension building 'till the inevitable climax, be subtle.

Good luck.

so ur saying that asking her a question with the word lust in it is a good idea as long as i don't talk about sex too much, correct? For example I could ask her if she thinks there is a difference between lust sex and spiritual sex but then not use the word sex again on the date bc I should have successfully brought her mind to sex and now I can shift to subtle tension building behaviors like touch? Am I understanding correctly what ur saying?

 

[Fruitbat]

If the woman really does determine in the first 5 minutes if she wants you or not, then that would imply its all about the looks? Everything we have learned about women is that they are not the same as men in focusing on looks as the main driver of attraction - they use all the senses in being attracted including listening and touch which is why it is common to see below average guys with attractive women. What does "BN" mean? Also, when you are supposed to be taking the girl home but instead take her to some isolated bridge view, I think a lot of girls would freak out, especially if its the first date. It works only after repoire has been established and she is very clearly into you in my opinion. You kissed her on the middle of what?

BN = billion.

the middle of the bridge.

the bridge isn’t isolated its a beautiful and stunning place.

as for the 5 mins = looks. No. 5 mins is enough to assess your social skills, frame, and from that can be inferred your likely occupation from your clothes.

5 mins isn’t a hard and fast rule, but you most certainly will be judged near enough in that time.

I need about 5 mins talking to another man to assess his place in the world, and I can scan a woman for crazy in that time, maybe, let’s be fair, say 30 mins.

 

[andreihaha]

so ur saying that asking her a question with the word lust in it is a good idea as long as i don't talk about sex too much, correct? For example I could ask her if she thinks there is a difference between lust sex and spiritual sex but then not use the word sex again on the date bc I should have successfully brought her mind to sex and now I can shift to subtle tension building behaviors like touch? Am I understanding correctly what ur saying?

No, you don't need to use the word sex at all.

And what the fvck is spiritual sex?

 

[RangerMIke]

when you say don't talk about work or any negatives or complaints, what if my work is something I very much enjoy? Then is it ok to talk about it a little bit? Or is it more important to try to focus on more fun, light, flirty topics? And what are some examples of how to steer the conversation into that direction? What if I were to ask her something like "do you think there is a difference between spiritual sex and animal sex" or something like that to subtly make her mind connect me and the topic of sex? Or would that be weird?

You can talk about work... but stay positive about it. If you love your job, GREAT! Talk about it. But if you hate your job, it's better to talk about your hobbies and interests you like.

As far as trying to 'steer' the conversation towards sex... Well, On a first date.... I wouldn't recommend you do this unless she brings it up first. She has to open the door, then you have to go with it. The bottom-line here is any attempt you make to steer the conversation and she will know what you are doing. If she is open to you, yeah... she'll go with it, if not then she'll shut you down. Nothing wrong with going there, but understand doing this is no guarantee of success.

What you should be doing on a first date is LISTENING to what she is saying... I mean really listen. DO not go in with any expectations other than figuring out where you stand with her. Do not have a game plan... just try to figure out the situation. In military terms, the first date is a 'reconnaissance', it is not an 'attack'. You would never attack and enemy without knowing their disposition. Oh sure, sometimes these 'attacks' turn out okay, but that is just luck. More often than not these blind attacks end in failure. If after reconnaissance (first date) you figure out an attack would be a costly waste of time, then don't ask for a second date.

Ask questions... get her talking, then you just respond to what she is saying, never go into a first date with the attitude that you have a narrative you are trying to fit. Ask her what she likes to do in her free time... if she talks about painting, go with that, if you have some emotional story about visiting an art museum, share that... ask her WHY she is into painting... if she mentions it was her mother's influence... well then she just opened the door to talk about mothers and how they influence us, have some funny story to tell about mothers... or if you actually have a funny story about painting... share that.... how she responds will open more doors to talk about other things.... it's just building on a conversation. Don't lie in an attempt to build rapport. If you really don't get painting, or don't know much about it, then tell her. Tease her a bit, challenge her to convince you painting is something great. If she goes with that, well... great, now she is selling herself to you, which is where you want to be. If she doesn't.... well that means she's really not into you. Painting can be very erotic, so depending on how the conversation is going you can toss in some innuendo about posing in the nude.... then see if she runs with it.

You can do this with anything she likes... the important thing to understand is try and figure out WHY she likes what she likes, because we all make emotional decisions about things we like and don't like. This allows you to communicate emotionally.

 

[TheCharmingGuy]

And what the fvck is spiritual sex?

Her: *moans* oh yes part my legs like Moses and the Red Sea
Her: OHHHHH YES JESUS POWER UHHHHHHHH
*cvms*

 

[andreihaha]

Her: *moans* oh yes part my legs like Moses and the Red Sea
Her: OHHHHH YES JESUS POWER UHHHHHHHH
*cvms*

I think that would be biblical sex. Sounds even more weird. Uhh...

 

[TheCharmingGuy]

I think that would be biblical sex. Sounds even more weird. Uhh...

I’ve never encountered spiritual or biblical sex to my knowledge. I thought it was just sex. *shrug*

 

[2Rocky]

1) get the dinner table out of the way. If you are determined to do dinner meet a ways away and walk to the restaurant.
2)Meet for a walk,
3) Greet her with a hug.
4) Be enthusiastic. High five on common interests or viewpoints.
5) Find her hot buttons (Sports teams, Hometowns, Favorite foods, dog or cat person, favorite season, brand of car, ) Relate to her on these points, and reward her with hugs.
6) have her take your arm as you walk. The manner in which se does that will indicate how turned on she is. If she squeezes your arm tight into her chest, you are in.
7) if you can work dancing into your date it just ups the Kino.
8) Don't kiss until you are "Finally Alone" and semi secluded. here you propose "going somewhere a little quieter"

 

[Sebastian0001]

BN = billion.

the middle of the bridge.

the bridge isn’t isolated its a beautiful and stunning place.

as for the 5 mins = looks. No. 5 mins is enough to assess your social skills, frame, and from that can be inferred your likely occupation from your clothes.

5 mins isn’t a hard and fast rule, but you most certainly will be judged near enough in that time.

I need about 5 mins talking to another man to assess his place in the world, and I can scan a woman for crazy in that time, maybe, let’s be fair, say 30 mins.

frame as in height, weight etc? I think ppl can certainly judge ppl in 5 minutes but it seems women are attracted in a different way. There are COUNTLESS examples of ugly, short, average dressed guys who pull women way out of their league. Its hard to believe the first 5 min helps them with any women but as long as they have the game and DJ principles, and kino escalation, they seem to be able to get the attraction going.

 

[Sebastian0001]

No, you don't need to use the word sex at all.

And what the fvck is spiritual sex?

u know just the kind of bs women like just like the other phrases they use like "soul mate" and "my husband is my best friend" and all that

 

[Fruitbat]

u know just the kind of bs women like just like the other phrases they use like "soul mate" and "my husband is my best friend" and all that

“my husband is my best friend” is usually followed by “but my boyfriend absolutely pound me”

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Just for some context, I am a divorced man and 38 years old. I used to be very good on first dates and they would always turn into some level of intimacy after the first date. So, I have had success before and its not like I am awkward or bad looking or anything. The only negative on me is that I recently had a GI disease and so my weight is kind of low and I am 5'11 and only 125lbs but I dress in a way that looks good for thin men. However, at this stage of my life as I re-enter dating, it has been a struggle. I have been on a lot of first dates in a bar/lounge setting where we are getting drinks. In the most recent date, the girl afterwards told me she sees more of a platonic vibe than a romantic vibe and I know that my approach is not good enough. This particular date was at a bar/lounge and we sat at a table and had drinks. When I got there, she gave me a hug and then we talked about a lot of random topics including family, careers, where she grew up, where she attended school and we asked each other questions about these topics. One time she accidentally kicked my foot and I tried to make a joke that "I know I am cute but do you have to play footsies with me?" and she laughed. Then we walked around the lounge because there was a band playing and a beautiful lagoon inside of the lounge. We continued talking about other topics and the conversation flowed well. She told me about her sister and I told her about my brother. I tried to touch her on the arm while talking to create more touch. Finally, I paid for the drinks and we walked out. I offered a ride home but she said she wanted to walk because she is new to the city and is still discovering. She then walked with me to my car and gave me a nice hug and then we went out separate ways. A few days later I texted and she said she seems more of platonic vibe and not a romantic vibe.

What should I have done differently? What kind of things could I have done or said to increase sexual tension? Should I have done some sweet talk and said something like "you have beautiful eyes" or maybe more aggressive touching?? I'd appreciate any advice you guys may have for me. Additionally, is there any good book that I can read on the topic of first date interactions and how to create sexual tension and attraction instead of platonic vibes and platonic interactions?

The divorce has definitely done a number. Chalk up the dates as a W. Move on. Stack. Each approach, date, pull = practice.

On bad dates or anything less than spectacular, I always esculate. I make a move. It gets things to fast forward.

1. Sexy time 2. Rejected

You either beat it rotten or you eject having Made intention known. A girl 1x was chill. I just made out. Another girl said she was anxious. I esculate. Ended up beating it rotten.

There's no perfect formula. Anybody saying there is is selling rubbish. Miss 100% of the chances you don't take. -the great one!

Seek competence. Stack so much, you simply are indifferent to the outcomes. Another day at the office. There's always some bloke sick of shagging "her." Remember that when you question whether or not to make a move.

 

[BadBoy89]

You don't create sexual tension by saying something or touching her at just the right time or kissing her out of the blue. She didn't want to go further because you didn't make any actual moves.

You create sexual tension by looking her in the eyes while being honest with yourself and her about your attraction for her and being completely unafraid of the outcome. If she responds with a smile then you're free to move forward, if she doesn't then you accept the outcome and don't get butthurt over it.

You can't "try" to do this or it will come across as creepy. It has to be natural.

I create sexual tension by saying “honey, here is $200. Use your imagination.”

In my opinion, if she is NOT a virgin and over, let’s say 27 years old, there is NO sexual tension needed. She has to put up fast or get out of the man’s face. All her bargaining power is LOST when she is not a VIRGIN.

 

[DonJuanjr]

The bottom-line here is any attempt you make to steer the conversation and she will know what you are doing. If she is open to you, yeah... she'll go with it, if not then she'll shut you down. Nothing wrong with going there, but understand doing this is no guarantee of success.

If she isn't into him, then there is little chance for success anyways right? Might as well go there to rule out the non interested.