I messed up.. advice please?

[pete101]

hey first time posting. hope you guys can help with suggestions. thanks.

i met this girl a couple of weeks ago, got her number, contacted her 5 days later didn't get a reply of any sort then bumped into her again at the end of that week and she apologised for not responding but did not give a reason. I just pretended to be unaffected by it either way. She suggested meeting up for a coffee when she was back from abroad in a couple weeks.

the next day i sms her telling her to meet me for a coffee that particular weekend but i didn't say which day. didn't get a response until she called me that night about an hour before we were suppose to meet asking what day i meant. i said the day after she said she couldn't make it so suggested monday but she'd call me to confirm.. (but every thing seemed too casual on the phone like in her mind we weren't meeting for a date)

i waited till about 4.30pm that day for her to call and then sms her to suggest a time. got no response and called her an hour before we were suppose to meet, she picked up and agreed.

In my mind i thought she was playing games with me throughout this entire ordeal from start to finish like some power trip games so i was real uneasy meeting her.

long story short we went out that night and i spent the whole time trying to figure her out because everything was too casual on her behalf that it didn't seem like a date at all that it made me feel uncomfortable.. we both suggested meeting up again loads of times to do other things but she said it without a batter of an eyelid so this made me confused whether we were even on a date..

when i took her home i was so baffled that i needed to gain clarity on the matter (big mistake!!) before she got out the car i stopped her and put her on the spot asking whether she knew that tonight was a date because it didn't feel like it.. (it didn't go as smoothly as that.. i spent ages trying to get the words out cos it felt awkward)

she said to me that she doesn't 'date' and didn't think tonight was a date, just meeting up some guy she met at college couple weeks back. i was dumbstruck.. all this time i assumed she must know this is a date yet she insisted it wasn't and this was making her feel very uncomfortable.. all my questions and probing.

in the end she eventually scammered her way out and i was embarassed as hell as i knew from reading so suave that this was probably wussy behaviour 101..

i sms her that night about an hour later when i got back apologising for putting her in that uncomfortable position.

my question is what do i need to do now to redeem myself? do i send her another apology later today? (24 hours in the aftermath)

everything was going fine up until that point.. but im incessant need for clarity and certainty made me f*ck up a potential future with a wonderful girl who i think/thought was interested.. i'm not even sure anymore..

(apologies for the length of this post.. it was a long story with a lot of details)

 

[Tomatoes]

Yeah you messed up. Also didnt help that it sounds like she was never intrested in the way you were. Also you were prob abit to pushy. Everything is experiance. Just learn from your mistakes. I advise reading this forum. Look into IOI's (Indicators of intrest) that girls give off. This will help you tell if she is intrested in future rather than saying something that makes her feel uneasy.

 

[pete101]

thanks. to be honest she actually did show some interest, quite a lot actually.. playing with her hair, preening herself, storking my leg at one point.. but it just seemed so weird because she seemed so cool and casual about everything.. no nervousness at all on her part..

this made me paranoid that maybe i didn't ask her out or she didnt think that. people have said to me she isn't stupid and knows how it is.. is there anyway i can redeem myself based on the fact that there is some interest on her behalf (though may have all disappeared by now..)?

 

[snobby]

In my experiences each time I messed up with a woman it was final, there was no turning back. I had very few cases when that wasnt the case. but yeah, the way you messed up is hard to go back. Usually the first impression is always the key for attraction. If a woman doesnt feel attraction for you at the beginning, then its hard for her to feel it later on (but it can happen).

As Tomatoes said, you just need practice. Read the stuff around and start talking to women untl you get things right and improve. as for this case, I would forget her if I were you and practice on anoither woman.

 

[pete101]

i see. i think/thought there was attraction at the beginning.. she came onto me kinda right at the forefront. bearing that in mind attraction can disappear in an instant if you f*ck up like i did..

she says she never 'dates' and doesn't believe in it.. she usually just goes with the flow and sees how things pan out rather than me who sees things clear cut. i believe her but still the problem is despite my messing up we had a good time prior to that.. is it unwise to apologise again and offer to make things up to her at a later date?
(im starting to feel the wuss alarm bells ringing off again.. but i cant find advice on so suave about what to do if you mess up and redeem yourself)

 

[The Bad Ass Canadian]

You're mistakes are pretty obvious. You did so many things wrong it's hard to find a spot to start.

First off, 5 days is a bit long to wait to get in touch with someone. Think about how many things can change in that time. 2-3 days is about right. If I get a girls number today (tuesday, for example) I'll call her on thursday just to say hello and tell her to get together after the weekend. monday nights are good for a coffee-type thing. It's casual and gives you and her something to look forward to at the start of the next week. (usually the most boring part of anyone's week)

Secondly, you weren't direct with your plans. You pvssy-footed around the idea of getting together. You need to give her concrete plans and either she says yes or no. that's it.

Then, You spent the entire date trying to figure her out? WTF? Why?! You were just getting together for a coffee, not negotiating a life-long comitment.
You gave her all the power cuz instead of being carefree and aloof, you became uncomfortable and started second-guessing this "date".

Then to add insult to injury, you played an insecure little chump by asking her if she knew this was a date?!?!?!?! On the first date!!??? That just screams neediness and insecurity.
Don't fool yourself with what she answered. She knew it was a date and played dumb just to let you down easy. You blew it and i hope you learned from this experience. Keep working at it and you'll learn how things go, in a natural way... just be prepared to mess a bunch more times. We've all been there.

 

[Jariel]

everything was going fine up until that point.. but im incessant need for clarity and certainty made me f*ck up a potential future with a wonderful girl who i think/thought was interested.. i'm not even sure anymore..

Trust me, this need for clarity will screw up every single encounter you have with women unless you can let it go. Sometimes, there is no black and white and you can go out with a woman without it being a date and things can develop in their own time. In my experience, trying to get answers on where you stand or pushing things to be more than they are is a sure way to kill your chances.

If you don't know this girl very well, she may just want to spend time hanging out and getting to know you. That's sensible behaviour really. As she gets to know you, she might decide she wants to pursue something more, but you have to give her a chance to do that without any pressure.

Everything you wrote reminded me of myself a year ago. Just try taking a more casual approach (like her) and it will make a big difference. Don't pressure yourself to do anything that doesn't feel right, don't analyse her, or worry about doing everything correctly, and don't look for answers...just enjoy your time together and take it easy.

When/if she wants something more, it will be obvious and she will make it very easy for you. Until then, take it easy and have fun.

Also...DO NOT APOLOGISE OR TRY TO EXPLAIN OR REDEEM YOURSELF. This always ends with guys digging themselves into a deeper hole. Explaining yourself or trying to correct misunderstandings will make you look neurotic (trust me, I've been there) so I strongly advice you accept it didn't work out, it's beyond your control and let her get back to you if she's interested.

 

[pete101]

thanks for the responses guys. its duly noted.

she didn't seem nervous coz she spent the whole evening talking non stop acting behaving very calm as if we were just friends and it was no big deal.

she kept suggesting all these things we could do together, road trips etc
she even invited me to a party with her tonight but at the time i wasn't concentrating or looking at her so she assumed it was a no..

i never been in a situation with a girl where she suggests so many things to do together next time and in future, thats what made me start to think maybe she was less into me and more just saw us as friends.. every suggestion was so calm and casual that it seemed as if i was confused what it was..

 

[pete101]

its probably ignorant assuming that there is still something there but realistically is there anything i can do to salvage what might have been?

i have this deep rooted thinking that there is still something there.. even though my better judgement says otherwise.. i know i should and will move on.. but shes nothing like any of the other girls from my past.. i dont know what it is.. just i feel like i should at least do something.

 

[Jariel]

its probably ignorant assuming that there is still something there but realistically is there anything i can do to salvage what might have been?

I know how you feel and the good news is that it is possible to salvage a messed up opportunity as I have done it numerous times (since learning how). Look at my thread listed in my signature titled "Handling Rejection" for some detailed examples of how I and others have turned around rejection.

 

[saki]

Remember that this is not a failure and that you are coming out a stronger person. Say to yourself, you will not do this again, ever! We all mess up on women in some way or another, and fortunately theirs so many of them, that we can hone our skills without too much embarrassment. So this didnt work out, but you can make it work out by asking another female to coffee today! Ditto what others have said, just quit putting so much pressure on yourself and your date. Its ok to be cautious on what you say, and usually the saying rings true; less is more, but dont analyse her to much during the date other than body language, and never believe what a girl says, she will never tell you its a date. Act and think as if NOTHING is coming out of this other than some fun teasing and chat, and some good coffee. Be a carefree man!

 

[pete101]

when all is said and done i still want to try something to get her back.. i still believe there was something there prior to me messing up for 15mins at the end.. shes going away for a week and a half.. is it fine to contact her when she gets back? i assume i should wait for her but if she doesn't how long should i wait?

(i know i should leave it but i want to give it one more shot as i know there is something there..)

 

[The Bad Ass Canadian]

(i know i should leave it but i want to give it one more shot as i know there is something there..)

no no no.....

You want to believe there is something there when there probably isn't anything there.

Go for it, man.... knock yourself out. Try her again. Experience is the best teacher and experience has taught me that you can't change someone's mind when they are emotionally driven.

Go for it.

Tell us how it goes . (I can play Mrs. Cleo and predict the future on this one....)

 

[Last Man Standing]

Haha, She said "I don't date" - what a load of crap - ALL women date!!! You are not "the one" kid - she has no romantic interest in you.

Is she a virgin? She must be if she isn't dating.

The bedt thing to do is NOTHING!!! I mean nothing - quit calling and sms'ing and apologizing - do NOTHING - but I know you are itching to do 'something' - aren't you? If you do 'something' you'll just dig a deeper hole!!

 

[pete101]

yeah. how did you guess? haha

technically her exact words were along the line of 'she doesn't date but usually see how things go along just enjoying the other persons company and after a while take it from there if there is something more'

she was the one suggesting places to go for 'next time' throughout the entire night but coz she mentioned it so often, it turned from me thinking she was really into me to maybe shes just making these suggestions as what friends would do..

shes leaving tomorrow for a week and a half so obviously theres not much i can do apart from nothing.. that will at least give some breathing space.. when shes back then i'd assume i'd call her and hopefully she'll pick up the call and i can reconcile with her?

(2 years ago i was in similar situation where a girl went away for a couple weeks i called cleared the air so to speak after she was back and everything was fine.. admittedly i didn't get the girl in the end but that was my own fault for carrying on from where i left off before she had left being a bit too keen rather than holding back a bit just to keep it more casual.. it might have not made a difference in the end if i did that but i'll never know)

 

[The Nice Guy is Gone]

Bottom line dude is she doesn't see you as anything more than a friend--and maybe not even that now, judging from the end of your post. If you call her, which I wouldn't advise, let it be for about 2 weeks AFTER she gets back in town--that will make her wonder what you've been doing.

Regardless, though, don't expect anything at all from this girl.

 

[pete101]

so you mean everything that went on prior to what i did at the end becomes irrelevant now?

i mean her body language throughout the night (preening herself, putting her lip balm on in front of me, stroking my leg at one point) counts for nothing cos of what i did?

this is what messed with my head coz she was making all these suggestions about me meeting up with her next time even the next day!

to be honest if i wasn't into her i'd have been scared off by how strong she seemed to be coming onto me with these suggestions coz i was thinking that 'i barely know you and you're already inviting me to go to a party with you the next night to see an old friend of yours??'

i think with all these immediate suggestions of meeting up again sooner rather than later made me question whether she was even into me and that made me screw up at the end..

 

[pete101]

i probably don't want to believe its too far gone when in reality it has..

 

[StrongBad]

shes leaving tomorrow for a week and a half so obviously theres not much i can do apart from nothing.. that will at least give some breathing space.. when shes back then i'd assume i'd call her and hopefully she'll pick up the call and i can reconcile with her?

QUOTE]

Hey man, I know it's hard to take advice from people who did not experience first hand what exactly happened with this girl, but the majority of the posts on this thread are exactly right...the best course of action is to do absolutely nothing.

Go read Jariel's very interesting thread he mentioned above (Handling Rejection) and look at the potential outcomes of doing nothing:

Outcome 1: You become unavailable and as a result she perceives you as valuable (since she is in danger of no longer having you). She re-initiates contact with you and you are once again in control

Outcome 2: She doesn't contact you. Great, now you've definitively determined that she wasn't really interested. Time to move on.

Now if you were to act by calling, visiting her, etc. just to do something because you feel you should, you risk making your current situation with this girl, no matter how bad you think it is now, worse. You do NOT want to do that.

 

[The Nice Guy is Gone]

I just realized that i had to tell you something. It seems like you are seeing what you want to see, as opposed to what you need to see. Go find someone else, but be her friend--if she is still up for that. Having female friends is social gold.