I know some of you still follow Pook...

Luthor Rex

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EDIT: I posted this in the "mature" section because this discussion here doesn't seem too retarded...
EDITED AGAIN: for piss poor spelling!

I wish there was an easier way to discuss some of these ideas, but...

Read this: http://dapook.blogspot.com/2007/06/two-spheres.html

I've experienced what he's talking about here. I've had it many times in the past where I'm talking to a woman and I can tell she doesn't "get it" even though she says she does. I'll hit this language barrier that I can't cross and don't know what to do about. To paraphrase Pook, the woman is only seeing the reflection of what I'm trying to actually say to her.

If anyone hasn't read "the Manipulated Man" I suggest you do so, that communication from womanverse comes through loud and clear.

I'm wondering though if men who are at least a bit "in the know" come to perceive women as evil or amoral because while the reflection may be pierced these men aren't seeing the whole picture. I don't disagree with Pook's assessment that women are all Nietzscheans now... but maybe it means something very different to them. Maybe they don't fully see the consequences as I'm sure men do things that shake womanverse and yet we don't see them. I mean maybe if women really understood the hell they've been putting men through for the last 30 years they would cut that **** out.

Or maybe they would just send us all to concentration camps...


:rock:
 
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Analytic

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this is the actual pook blog? thats intresting..
 

joekerr31

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the post is well written, and generally i find pook insightful, but i think this particular post is way off in left
field - FOUL BALL! :p

pook, for whatever the reason, is trying to be a broker between the sexes in this post (as a result i think this
post is more rhetoric than substance). he's over extending logic via a well written analogy to create false points
of common experience - ie. men and women are truly equal just that we operate in different spheres that cause us to
misunderstand each other.

i mean, really its just the "men are from mars and women are from venus argument", although written more eloquently.
an argument which, i believe, is 100% bullsh*t.

but first let me tell you why the argument is appealing - why it 'feels' like it makes sense.

it feels like it makes sense because men desperately want to find a way to 'understand' women (becuase they want
women in their lives). so this paradigm of framing 'emotion' as just another form of 'logic' seems appealing. women
aren't 'irrational', its simply a different 'perspective' - a sphere if you will.

but the REALITY is that there is NOT two spheres based on gender. there is a spectrum based on rationality.

MANY women - as a result of behavior and societal conditioning, and potentially due to hormonal factors as well -
tend to occupy the less rational end of the spectrum - the emotive end.

many men occupy this area as well! criminals, rapists, AFCs, etc. - these are all men who are ruled first by their emotions and secondly by the rational thought.

there are also women who occupy the higher end of the spectrum and are rational thinkers - these are typically quality women.

now erroneously people will assume that if you are highly rational that you therefore unemotive. which is completely
false. you are APPROPRIATELY emotive. which means you don't make mountains out of mole hills, you seek balance in
your relationships and you don't take every little thing someone says or does as a negative judgement of you.
in this paradigm i advise men to BETTER themselves - learn to control your emotive responses nad learn to think
rationally.

men who are able to do so (as well as women) drastically increase their odds of 1) being able to spot a high quality
woman 2) enjoying their life even when the going gets tough 3) figuring out what they really want in life and 4)
staying the course and successfully growing their careers and relationships.

nothing will do as much damage to your life as the inability to focus as a result of being unable to control your
emotions.

but anyway, back to the main topic.
the other reason pooks posts feels like it makes sense is the POWER behind being unreasonable! think about that for
a second.

theres a reason kids throw temper tantrums when they dont get what they want. because it helps them get it! its the
only tactic they can apply against a stronger advisary - its the victim / *****ing / annoy you to death tactic.

"i'll become such a pain in your *ss that you'll give me what i want just to shut me up - no matter how unreasonable
it is."

theres a reason terrorists suicide bomb places, because it makes people afraid and gives them power - and in the
long-term game sometimes gets them what they want. [theres also a reason why governments never give in to terrorists. becuase if you do it only encourages more terrorists to attack you).

you see, being unreasonable is a VERY common tactic in life. its NOT logic though. its anti-logic. its craftiness.
its manipulation. its bullying. its most often what i call creating a LOSE LOSE scenario and hoping that your opponent will cave.

now pooks post feels like it makes sense because most guys don't want to accept that things can really be this bad.
that the tactic most used against them is this LOSE LOSE one - after all, who wants to face a lose lose scenario,
you CANT win! :p

wouldn't it just be easier to reframe it as you simply have a different frame of reference from this other person?
and that the key to common ground is each better understanding each others frame of reference?
in a perfect world yes, this would be great. in the real world though, your only options in a LOSE LOSE scenario is
to either give in and live to fight another day, or walk away.

women know this and women use non-logical / emotive tactics for this exact reason!

but notice hwo they tend NOT to use it during the initial phases of the relationship. in the beginning they serve up
all the p*ssy you can eat. they get you hooked. THEN they lay the smack down on you. THEN they start pulling out the
emotional tactics - throwing tantrums, criticizing you that you dont care enough, etc.

sure, this two spheres theory will help you cope with your woman's irrational behavior. kind of like saying 'oh
timmy is just going through his terrible twos, just ignore him' - have a frame of reference helps you ignore or
excuse bad behavior. but it doesn't make your life better.

what makes your life better is learnign and understanding what APPROPRIATE and ACCEPTABLE behavior is for BOTH
genders!

what worries me about pook's sphere theories is that any AFC reading that is going to start thinking 'oh wait, maybe
Sally isn't being a b*tch. i just don't understand her frame of reference."

Bullsh*T.

if you're getting treated poorly it has nothing to do with you not understanding the female sphere. the only thing
it has to do with is that another human being, male or female, is treating you like crap because you are letting
them!

lastly, i'll say this much as well...

most women reading pook's post would agree with what he's said. their response woudl be 'EXACTLY! we are just as
smart and logical as men, we just express it differently. we aren't being irrational, we're just valuing emotion
more than they do and they just dont get it."

ya ya ya, blah blah blah. that sh*t comes out of 90% of women now a days.

and you know why i don't buy it one bit?

i've known a number of women in my life who were decent women, who thought JUST like this. and no matter what you ever said to them, they would always brush off any different views as men simply not understanding emotion.

but then life hit them like a ton of bricks. they had various hardships befall them and couldn't cope. thats when they were willing to listen. and when they did listen, and STOPPED trying to deal with their problems using emotion, but rather dealt with things reasonably, rationally, etc. - they got through.

woman 'logic' if you want to call it that, doesnt work. it works as long as a man is in the picture or nothing too stressful in life happens.

moreover, i know a number of high quality women who are 10x as critical of your average woman that i am! they trasht hem for being manipulative, irrational, etc. and cut them NO slack. I at least factor in social conditioning and hormones - whereas their peers don't cut them any slack!

and the number one reason we have this f*cking mess on our hands out there in the world is because men, out of part ignorance part just wanting to get laid regularly, have bought in to this idiotic notion that emotion is the same as logic.

thats why so many guys are completely blind to the fact that they are dealing with a compelely irrational woman and try to be captain save a ho - and get nothing but a knife in the back for all their efforts.

assess ALL humans, men and women, based on how reasonable, rational and in control of their emotions they are. its how you'll find good friends, good jobs and good women.

like i say, i think this two spheres stuff is off in left field. but hey, if it helps you feel 'better' about women, and therefore more apt to let women in to your life - i suppose that's something. To me its almost like using AFC traits to get women though - it will work, but the long term outcome won't be very good.
 

joekerr31

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one other thing. there are only two way sto keep the POWER LOSE LOSE tactic at bay.

1) is where you each value each other equally and you are dealing with a mature woman who has no interest in merely 'getting her way' but rather is looking to devleop a healthy positive relationship.

2) if your girl needs you more than you need her. she's think twice about pulling hte LOSE LOSE if she thinks you are going to walk away. which is why when guys DO walk away women often come back.

anyway, with most women, once they pull this lose lose crap its done. you have no choice but to walk away. which unfortunately is osmething that most men just can't muster the balls to do.
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

joekerr31

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when you said 'most (men) are in their (female) world and dont even know it' - that is an important point.

why is it that men seem soooo blind to how women are manipulating them?

i'll tell you why. its simple.

male to male relationships are straight forward. men dont manipulate their friends. they shoot straight with each other. (most men anyway). as a result men are not evolved to be paranoid and neurotic at every turn. most men go through life never really concerning themselves with the non verbal elements of their various social relationships.

women however dont shoot straight with each other. moreover they engage in petty forms of relating such as gossiping, judging each other, etc.

its well known that women trust other women less than most men do!

men think they have it tough, but trust me guys, we don't. i think its much tougher being a woman and really all you have is other manipulative women who you can be friends with, or guys who just want to screw you.

im telling ya, the amount of women who are looking for male friends over female friends is pretty high. there are TONS of women out there who don't have any real genuine friendships the way guys do. they shop for clothes, talk about boys, etc. - but they don't have each other's back when the times are tough.

I use to think maybe i was just a chauvanist in my views on women. until that was i started having female friends! my god, then i realized that women think less of women than any man i know!

crazy stuff.

if i were ever goign to use a two spheres analogy. id say that one sphere was a world where everything was as it appeared to be. and the other sphere was like that fun house mirror thing. you know, you walk in and there are mirrors everywhere that distorts everything - THAT is more like the female sphere. sure, when you are IN the fun house with all these wacko mirrors i guess that does become your reality - but its not actual reality. a lot of AFCs live in this fun house also. personally the fun house gives me a headache so i prefer to live in the real world.
 
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GtarPlayr73

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great stuff, joekerr31. Thanks.
 

Hitman10000

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Pook has good wisdom that pertains to some generalities of how men in American society are, but I've educated myself and have gone past his teachings to mesh with my own personality.

Pook's advice to me is like me adding ketchup to my food. I love ketchup in some things, but I prefer to use my own ingredients in the matter as well.
 

Aenigma

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Hitman10000 said:
Pook has good wisdom that pertains to some generalities of how men in American society are, but I've educated myself and have gone past his teachings to mesh with my own personality.

Pook's advice to me is like me adding ketchup to my food. I love ketchup in some things, but I prefer to use my own ingredients in the matter as well.
What a self congradulatory, ego inflating way of saying nothing.
 

jonwon

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Luthor Rex said:
EDIT: I posted this in the "mature" section because this discussion here doesn't seem too retarded...
EDITED AGAIN: for piss poor spelling!

I wish there was an easier way to discuss some of these ideas, but...

Read this: http://dapook.blogspot.com/2007/06/two-spheres.html

I've experienced what he's talking about here. I've had it many times in the past where I'm talking to a woman and I can tell she doesn't "get it" even though she says she does. I'll hit this language barrier that I can't cross and don't know what to do about. To paraphrase Pook, the woman is only seeing the reflection of what I'm trying to actually say to her.

If anyone hasn't read "the Manipulated Man" I suggest you do so, that communication from womanverse comes through loud and clear.

I'm wondering though if men who are at least a bit "in the know" come to perceive women as evil or amoral because while the reflection may be pierced these men aren't seeing the whole picture. I don't disagree with Pook's assessment that women are all Nietzscheans now... but maybe it means something very different to them. Maybe they don't fully see the consequences as I'm sure men do things that shake womanverse and yet we don't see them. I mean maybe if women really understood the hell they've been putting men through for the last 30 years they would cut that **** out.

Or maybe they would just send us all to concentration camps...


:rock:

Pook has some interesting ideas, his best work is in fact on this forum.

Some of his work on pook’s mill is ok, but i find it hard to take advice from someone who worships G. Bush the way he does, who references the bible as much as he does and sets his moral compass squarely on those things.

He even goes as far as stating G.Bush and his many bushisms are all a ploy! If he is going as far as trying to cite conspiracy he could at least look at the other side also :D

Not to mention his many ramblings on his version of right and wrong in relation to catholic readings.

Oh and i dont fully agree with most of his posts either! Some are good, in the sense of a person defining himself out of the loop of femal validation but other then that? What else is there to offer?

Sorry Pook but i do like your posts, but hate your blog man, maybe you should steer well clear of political and religious ideals!

I find it suprising how one such as this guy can be so easily conformist.

I like his MRA stuff though but there is far better out there tbh!

I cant even bring myself to read most of his stuff! Some of the stuff in the post is ok, but only about 30% of it is correct imo.

It paints a very strict black and white picture of logic V emotion, with both sexes catering to ego for there sex, with how it seems men placed on a lower setting!

Maybe some women operate from that agenda and some men do also, but its not the normality!

Has far as i am concerned also, he states women dont care what men think, i could not disagree more, women base there whole lives around what men 'think' even if it conforming to the feminine herd, the instigation of the feminine herd think will have very much the male gender in the loop at its core.

I find women care far more about what men think then men think about women! I think real men dont even give a flying monkeys what women will think about them, where as most women will still demand and require and desire attention which in which ever from from the men as she would require 'fresh air'.

And women dont see men as 'weak' the fact is if your 'weak' men and women will see you that way, the same as i would if i was dating a women who started to do some things i disliked and i thought it was time to dump her, but felt she was too weak and into me to do it bluntly. hence the weak part is infact your a chump nothing more nothing less, it is no female herd logic its commen human nature, if you behave like a door mat people will walk all over you male or female.

his post is a means to try to get men and women to understand each other, cant blame him for that.
But to do it in such a basic black and white format is doing nothing but making the divide larger tbh about it.

The bottom line factor comes down to one human condition that is paramount to the message he is trying to put across and it comes down to 'respect' its as simple as that.

respect yourself, to understand what it is you want and who you are.
And respect others around you that are willing to give you the same curtousy, regardless of men or women.

The only gender divide is in fact ones that are present in posts like pooks, it adds substance to what fundimentally is about learning to live with your fellow man/women.

This goes towards feminst ideals which i think is the crux of his post, the point is women who adopt that mentality do not 'respect' men as they would respect another fellow human, in that why should that man 'respect' back? this is not the mans fault this is the persons fault who has adopted a set of belief's catering to selfish ideals and ego at the cost of anothers self worth!
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

jonwon

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i do love this post though :D

http://dapook.blogspot.com/2007/06/fish-hook-metaphor.html

Like i said 30% of it is good to read, the rest/ I think he is coming down from a heavy night tbh about.

I can understand pook he has taken of the rose tinted specs in relation to women and society. But i think sometimes he likes to put them back on again, of forgets to take em off, hence the original post :D

Sometimes though he makes dam good reading posts.

Pook less of the bible philology and worshiping the conformist agenda! You may actually become the guy ppl really take a lot of interest in reading.

for ever Bible reference i could post several points nullifying the arguments!

for someone who uses logic as he does, i am dumbfounded sometimes by some of his beliefs, but hey.

someone stated pooks back in the matrix, i would say he has one foot in and one foot out, its the foot out that is great to read :D
 
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