I just deleted all my online dating apps

[Gamisch]

Good post OP.

There's a lotta bragging going on and that's cool, but it doesn't leave any room to have honest conversations about this. OLD means basically being completely dependent on a secretive algorithm.

Here we have a man who IS doing "okay" on OLD and still testifies that it's a dead end road. That's also costs tons of money.

The problem is that we will often be tempted go back though. It's almost impossible to put in writing how awful it is. So yeah, you did a good job describing these dynamics.

In the late 1990s, Tom Leykis created Leykis 101, a set of rules around navigating the mating marketplace. One of the rules was keeping a maximum of $40 per date. If you were to adjust for inflation, that's around $70-$75 today. I think it is possible to keep costs under $70 per date.

I don't know where drinks in bars are costing $20 minimum. That's insane! However, a lot of places are having drinks that are $10-$15 per drink. With good planning, it's possible to reduce that cost if selecting a venue that's running drinks specials on a specific night.

A lot of the good date bars in my city have difficult parking associated with them. It's not easy to park a car near the good dates. Parking is a logistical challenge in many cases. Sometimes it is easier to get an Uber/Lyft to go to a date.

When I first moved to my current city in the early 2010s, I was staying under the Leykis $40 rule then. That was impressive for that era.

Dates now don't need to cost $70-$100. Keeping them as inexpensive as possible is a good idea. I think there's a tendency for men to play it as a numbers game (which is a bad idea) and too many arrange too many dates that shouldn't be arranged. There's a lot of poor screening that happens. Most of this happens from tech-based dating (swipe apps & DMs) rather than in-person approaching. One of the consequences of online dating is that too many men are arranging too many dates that shouldn't be arranged. It's very difficult to select dates from behind an electronic screen primarily. Phone conversations too are poor predictors of real life chemistry. The best way to arrange first dates that will result in second dates is using a real life method.

Men need to re-focus and arrange fewer but better screened dates that would lead to more successful outcomes.

All great know theory, but won't work in practice. Dating apps basically means taking whatever option you get. Oftentimes these options will be flawed. You can't screen a serial dater via messages on a dating app . You gotta move fast.

And yeah, in Europe in a small town c0cktails also cost approx 15- 20 euro. I wholeheartedly agree that the cost of dating ( mediocre) women is WAY too high. Some women demand multiple dates, or think you set a standard and thus you might be spending 200/ 300 euro on a woman that ghosts you one week later without getting anything in return.

And that hurts. Even if you did slept with her it still hurts.

 

[DreamAgain]

I would like to see some receipts of guys who were targeting my age range (22-28), and slim and attractive, who are "crushing it" on the apps.

You were probably competing with guys like me also taking her out and smashing, and x100 other guys better looking and richer than I am.

 

[Gamisch]

I would like to see some receipts of guys who were targeting my age range (22-28), and slim and attractive, who are "crushing it" on the apps.

You were probably competing with guys like me also taking her out and smashing, and x100 other guys better looking and richer than I am.

I am not qualified to answer this because even if I matched with toptier women in that range it leads to nothing most of the time. IF I do use OLD I feel like I mostly get the bottom of the barrel. If not in looks, then definitely in character. It even made me doubt my own SMV ,like the my reflection in the mirror isn't a reality.

When I used it I ALWAYS got the most crazy women with tons of redflags. My d1ck mightve been "okay" but my heart was screaming at me to walk away.100 euros lighter a pop...

I love beautiful women as much as the next man, and OLD is a reality check to how many less than mediocre women there are on this planet. BUT, good luck "convincing " such a woman she is mediocre and should be happy with a "decent" man.

There are 25 y.o good looking men fighting for ugly 50 y.o women because they are horny and want something NOW ( and are 100% depending on OLD).Women definitely know how to milk this dynamic to the last drop.

 

[SW15]

In the late 1990s, Tom Leykis created Leykis 101, a set of rules around navigating the mating marketplace.

All great know theory, but won't work in practice. Dating apps basically means taking whatever option you get. Oftentimes these options will be flawed. You can't screen a serial dater via messages on a dating app . You gotta move fast.

Leykis 101 was created in an era when online dating websites were still stigmatized and most people started interactions with dating intent in a real world setting. Fewer people owned cell phones at that time. The ones who did own cell phones owned basic cell phones with little to no possibility of sending text-based messages. Cellular phones were used for making voice calls while away from a landline at home.

Some Leykis 101 rules do not hold up with 2020s era technology. Leykis had the same rule as Rollo Tomassi around sex. For Tomassi, this is Iron Rule of Tomassi #5.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #5
NEVER allow a woman to be in control of the birth.

Both Leykis and Tomassi believed all men should use condoms. I digress.

In a dating app environment, I agree that men need to move fast. Women have too much abundance.

The dating app environment is an environment where men are disadvantage, unless they are 85th-90th percentile in looks (6'0"+ with a fit/muscular physique developing from the combination of weight training and engaging in cardio-based sports).

Competition for women on dating apps is fierce. A guy who is an 8.5+ might even be challenged locking down a woman 8.5+ in looks, but an 8.5+ in looks guy will have an abundance of sex with women in the 5-6.9 range (average to slightly cute) who are down for sex. It's easy for those top tier men to get sex from average to slightly above average women, but these men are not going to commit to those women for a long time.

 

[SW15]

I even felt like a beta male using the apps honestly, like I was too incapable to go catch a fish out in the real world

I don't know why you would feel like a beta doing that.

Many alphas have discovered great efficiencies in swipe apps as compared to night game. Alphas of the 2010s-2020s can get laid more efficiently than alpha tier 1980s-1990s men who didn't have that option.

You don't know why he feels beta ?

Because it IS . Swiping reduces an important component of seduction namely conquering a woman and creating a good story.

Its like playing the feminine game. Woman don't really care how you meet them, just like they don't care about their past or bodycount. But we men do.

So from that point of view your last paragraph is flawed. The least alpha way to meet woken is through dating apps. It's the exact opposite:it's the most passive and feminine way to meet women.

There's no way around the fact that she has countless carbon copies of you in her inbox. This ignites a completely different dynamic from meeting her organically.

I'm writing this response from the perspective of a man who deleted his dating apps many years ago. I have enjoyed my time not using swipe apps.

Are the top tier men with Chad attributes (6'0"+, fit/muscular) who get laid a lot from swipe apps not alpha males? A guy who uses swipe apps to run a 2+ female rotation seems like he could be alpha.

There are many 6'0"+ fit guys who are getting laid regularly and with multiple women from swipe apps alone or maybe Instagram DM game. They aren't going out to bars/nightclubs to pursue women. They aren't doing daygame. They have enough volume from the DMs and swipe apps.

This isn't a scenario that's going to be applicable for most men. Most men are better off approaching women in the real world when they lack social circle options.

There are alpha males (6'0"+, fit/muscular) who get their sex solely from real world, in-person approaching. This is often done at nightlife venues.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Have you found a solution to this dilemma, please share.

Yes. Prescreen hard for her sense of humor. You can do this by asking what comedians or comedy shows/movies she likes, or making off kilter, offensive, dark, bizarre jokes to see if she goes along. Sense of humor is extremely important imo, because it's very revealing about a persons values and character and is a great NPC litmus test. Another thing you can do is ask her deep philosophical questions to see if she even has a response. I've started asking women about their thoughts on death and suicide or ontological questions about consciousness, determinism, nondualism, etc. I'm not even looking for someone who's "intellectual" or "educated", and there's no right answer, just someone who is capable of original thoughts and unique takes. Most of them don't pass.

 

[DreamAgain]

Yes. Prescreen hard for her sense of humor. You can do this by asking what comedians or comedy shows/movies she likes, or making off kilter, offensive, dark, bizarre jokes to see if she goes along. Sense of humor is extremely important imo, because it's very revealing about a persons values and character and is a great NPC litmus test. Another thing you can do is ask her deep philosophical questions to see if she even has a response. I've started asking women about their thoughts on death and suicide or ontological questions about consciousness, determinism, nondualism, etc. I'm not even looking for someone who's "intellectual" or "educated", and there's no right answer, just someone who is capable of original thoughts and unique takes. Most of them don't pass.

Great answer, thanks man.