I hate people who think the world owes them everything

[backbreaker]

If I see another run of the mill graphic developer that thinks he is entitled to make 60 dollars an hour just because he "went to school to do what he does" yet there are people who charge half of what he does that runs circles around him, I'm going to throw someone out a window. Then they have the nerve to get pissed at you, becuase they are avg.


People like that don't understand, that they do not set the price for their services, their talent and in turn, the market sets the price for what they are willing to pay for something. It's not my fault you aren't at the top of your industry and you think you should be paid like you are.

People who are really that good have people beating down the door to give them money.

 

[Drdeee]

If free market sets the prices, then why get pissed off and all emotional over a guy charging what he wants. Unless you really like his work and can't afford it, I see no point to this what so ever. Negging a guy and breaking up with him is not a straight man's approach to life.

 

[squirrels]

If free market sets the prices, then why get pissed off and all emotional over a guy charging what he wants. Unless you really like his work and can't afford it, I see no point to this what so ever. Negging a guy and breaking up with him is not a straight man's approach to life.

Because he has to deal with these people. It's true that the market dictates the value of their services, but when BB rejects sub-par developers, they give him a rash of sh!t over it. They feel that just because they managed not to fail a bunch of computer programming classes, they deserve to be paid top-dollar and when he won't hire them they act like HE is the stupid one for not paying them what they believe they are "worth".

This obviously happens more than once in a while...he talks about it all the time.

 

[backbreaker]

Because he has to deal with these people. It's true that the market dictates the value of their services, but when BB rejects sub-par developers, they give him a rash of sh!t over it. They feel that just because they managed not to fail a bunch of computer programming classes, they deserve to be paid top-dollar and when he won't hire them they act like HE is the stupid one for not paying them what they believe they are "worth".

This obviously happens more than once in a while...he talks about it all the time.

lol, exactly.


You could charge 200 an hour, doesn't mean I have to pay it. But don't give me any **** over my decision. Some dude asked me why I didn't want to go with him.. honestly, there were 1. better designers I found to do what I was trying to get done and 2. the guy price was too high. Then the dude had the nerve to catch an attitude because his work is ****ty.


And truth be told, it's not just me or Indian programmers or whatever the hell. Sites lke template-monster.com have freaking killed graphic designers. It has leveraged prices. I can find 5, damn good templates for under 75 dollars, or i can pay you 60 dollars for one hour of work. A Damn good custom design is going to take 12-15 hours of work at least. Alot of clients, especially the higher end ones, don't want to use templates, but it's not unheard of. But the mid range clients, is pretty much the way to go. If you have 2 grand to spend on an ecommerce site, you aren't spending 1200 on the design of the ecommerce site lol, when I can buy a template, a good one for $75 and use the rest of the budget for programming.

 

[backbreaker]

something else i freaking hate while i'm on it

I'm buying my little brother a car. my dad bought him a car, and he wrecked it, and then my dad bought him a jeep that just is a peice of crap. my dad was going to take him to the car lot and get him a car but i never have relaly done anything for the kid i figured id' help him out. so I am going to end up buying him what I was going to buy him in the first place, a mid 90's lexus. nice car, can pick up women in it, should not kill you with maitnence (it's not a new lexus), I have, or had a 98 lexus sc400 before it got jacked a few months ago, matinence wasn't that bad. Anyway, these people with these 15 year old lexuses, have ****ing lost their mind. No I'm not paying 5 grand for a 15 year old car, when I can go get a bottom line brand spanking new corolla for 11k. Hell I paid 10.8k for my fiancees 02 mercedes convertible. and you..mind you.. more than one person.. wants me to fork over 4500-5k for a 93-95 200k + mile lexus lol? are you freaking serious. they dont' hold value that well.


I will pay no more than 3k and that's in great condition.

 

[5string]

backbreaker

Just a suggestion. Shop for one on Craigslist in your area just for the heck of it. People on there these days are really, really trying to unload their stuff at rock bottom prices. I suppose it's the economy to a degree. My wife has been on there and has found some unbelievable high end furniture for our house for next to nothing.

For what it's worth.

 

[JustLurk]

So you expect everyone to be reasonable. What are you, delusional?
Rant all you want it won't change ****.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

"But what about my degwee? My degwee wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

These dumba$$ kids just don't get it. It's not entirely their fault, they were brainwashed that a degwee would be their golden ticket. Not so, actually you're just $100K in debt and the guy who didn't go to college is more employable than you. Anymore, a degree really just shows that you can live like a slob on borrowed money and beg from your parents for 4+ years as an adult. Gee, why are employers not banging their doors down?

Before I get attacked by those still under the spell, let me say that I went to college. And I still kick myself for it. It doesn't make you smarter, it doesn't make you the master of the universe, and anymore it doesn't mean jack sh!t. It's supply and demand, folks. And since the government got involved and tried to send everyone to college, the end result is a huge glut of unemployable people with worthless degrees and only a big pile of crushing debt to show for it.

 

[Mike32ct]

"But what about my degwee? My degwee wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

These dumba$$ kids just don't get it. It's not entirely their fault, they were brainwashed that a degwee would be their golden ticket. Not so, actually you're just $100K in debt and the guy who didn't go to college is more employable than you. Anymore, a degree really just shows that you can live like a slob on borrowed money and beg from your parents for 4+ years as an adult. Gee, why are employers not banging their doors down?

Before I get attacked by those still under the spell, let me say that I went to college. And I still kick myself for it. It doesn't make you smarter, it doesn't make you the master of the universe, and anymore it doesn't mean jack sh!t. It's supply and demand, folks. And since the government got involved and tried to send everyone to college, the end result is a huge glut of unemployable people with worthless degrees and only a big pile of crushing debt to show for it.

Spot on.

 

[cordoncordon]

If I see another run of the mill graphic developer that thinks he is entitled to make 60 dollars an hour just because he "went to school to do what he does" yet there are people who charge half of what he does that runs circles around him, I'm going to throw someone out a window. Then they have the nerve to get pissed at you, becuase they are avg.


People like that don't understand, that they do not set the price for their services, their talent and in turn, the market sets the price for what they are willing to pay for something. It's not my fault you aren't at the top of your industry and you think you should be paid like you are.

People who are really that good have people beating down the door to give them money.

BB you complain a lot about the business you are in. Internet graphic design or what have you.

My question is, if you dislike it so much....why do it? Sell it and get out. Seems like a big stress in your life. Become a full time race horse owner, or better yet, do as I did and become a trainer. You live close to Santa Anita right? Do it!

 

[KarmaSutra]

"But what about my degwee? My degwee wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

These dumba$$ kids just don't get it. It's not entirely their fault, they were brainwashed that a degwee would be their golden ticket. Not so, actually you're just $100K in debt and the guy who didn't go to college is more employable than you. Anymore, a degree really just shows that you can live like a slob on borrowed money and beg from your parents for 4+ years as an adult. Gee, why are employers not banging their doors down?

Before I get attacked by those still under the spell, let me say that I went to college. And I still kick myself for it. It doesn't make you smarter, it doesn't make you the master of the universe, and anymore it doesn't mean jack sh!t. It's supply and demand, folks. And since the government got involved and tried to send everyone to college, the end result is a huge glut of unemployable people with worthless degrees and only a big pile of crushing debt to show for it.

Is this as similar as the delusion that joining the Military makes you a hero or tough?

People join the Military with the expectation the Government will "take care of them". That's babysitting at it's worst.

I'm not shatting on my brethren who sign up to fight the good fight. But there is no draft. It's a choice they all make consciously. A hard fought choice too.

If you go into the Military and get killed, fvck you, that's what you signed up for.

Cops too. When they get shot dead serving a crackhead a warrant for vagrancy, I don't boo-hoo them at all. That's what they collect just above minimum wage every Friday for. They willingly put themselves in a position of danger. Why cry about them when they get it?

 

[JT7890]

"But what about my degwee? My degwee wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

These dumba$$ kids just don't get it. It's not entirely their fault, they were brainwashed that a degwee would be their golden ticket. Not so, actually you're just $100K in debt and the guy who didn't go to college is more employable than you. Anymore, a degree really just shows that you can live like a slob on borrowed money and beg from your parents for 4+ years as an adult. Gee, why are employers not banging their doors down?

Before I get attacked by those still under the spell, let me say that I went to college. And I still kick myself for it. It doesn't make you smarter, it doesn't make you the master of the universe, and anymore it doesn't mean jack sh!t. It's supply and demand, folks. And since the government got involved and tried to send everyone to college, the end result is a huge glut of unemployable people with worthless degrees and only a big pile of crushing debt to show for it.

Now wait a minute, let's not start talking out of our minds here.

Your chosen career is the main focus, whatever you are talented in, have a passion for, and can do well and make a decent or great living doing is the main focus. Once you have identified your chosen career, then you need to figure out what qualifications you NEED to be able to work in said career. You "might" just need field experience, you "might" just need a certification, or you "MIGHT" have to attend COLLEGE and get one or two or three of those "degrees" you rail against.

College isn't the problem. The problem is people that have no real idea on what they want to do and enroll in college "hoping" to find themselves. College was never meant for that. College was only meant to be a doorway into a particular position and career field that you wanted to get into. College was meant to inform your potential "employers" that you were trained in the field and ready for work, again, who are your potential "employers"? What career field are you going into and have you done all of your due diligence as far as expected salary, job opening, etc. that will be there when you are done with college?

Saying college is the problem would be like saying credit is a problem. Credit isn't the problem, it's the person using the credit. If the person uses the credit wisely and invests it in something that will increase their net worth, credit is a TOOL to help get you to the next level. Same as college, if the college degree and college process is being used as a TOOL to help advance your career, then it's an investment.

But when you have no idea what your career path IS, then time and money invested in college could be horribly wasted. It all comes down to the individual and how they manage their career.

 

[backbreaker]

BB you complain a lot about the business you are in. Internet graphic design or what have you.

My question is, if you dislike it so much....why do it? Sell it and get out. Seems like a big stress in your life. Become a full time race horse owner, or better yet, do as I did and become a trainer. You live close to Santa Anita right? Do it!

I actually don't mind what I do at all and to be franke I'm damn good at it.


I do bet as a living, that's where about 90% of my income comes from. Everything that I make from this, is basically thrown into the bank or back into the business. I basically work 2 jobs, I get up at 4am, and do this from about 5:30 (After the gym) utnil about 11, then go to the track or just wager from 11:30 until about 5, then do my thing from 5 until 10. that's my avg day.

I dont' do this for the money. I do this becuase for me to do what I ultimately want to achieve in life, this business has to be honed to a T and I have to know how to run it. I have to know the ins and outs of web development, and technology development better than anyone else in the thoroughbred industry. That's my long term goal, to build a company that basically specializes in thoroughbred advanced technologies. I used to say web technologies, but I have come up with a few damn good ideas that aren't web based. And even that, has nothing to do with money I make more than enough off the track, it's just what I want to do with my life. It's what drives me. That's why i put up with it.

 

[Rogue]

Julius_Seizeher:
These dumba$$ kids just don't get it. It's not entirely their fault, they were brainwashed that a degwee would be their golden ticket. Not so, actually you're just $100K in debt and the guy who didn't go to college is more employable than you. Anymore, a degree really just shows that you can live like a slob on borrowed money and beg from your parents for 4+ years as an adult. Gee, why are employers not banging their doors down?

It was Aristotle who once said:

With a view to action experience seems in no respect inferior to art, and men of experience succeed even better than those who have theory without experience… But yet we think that knowledge and understanding belong to art rather than to experience, and we suppose artists to be wiser than men of experience (which implies that Wisdom depends in all cases rather on knowledge); and this because the former know the cause, but the latter do not. For men of experience know that the thing is so, but do not know why, while the others know the 'why' and the cause. Hence we think also that the masterworkers in each craft are more honourable and know in a truer sense and are wiser than the manual workers, because they know the causes of the things that are done… thus we view them as being wiser not in virtue of being able to act, but of having the theory for themselves and knowing the causes. And in general it is a sign of the man who knows and of the man who does not know, that the former can teach, and therefore we think art more truly knowledge than experience is; for artists can teach, and men of mere experience cannot.

In other words, experience trumps knowledge, but experience and knowledge trumps experience. People who graduate college have the knowledge but no experience and so they typically struggle for a long while to gain a footing in their chosen field, but ultimately, overall, once they gain experience, statistics show the college educated do end up making more money on average than the high school educated. With the obvious exception of self-employment and entrepreneurship (like backbreaker), there are more opportunities afforded to the college educated. Holding a degree does not ensure someone is smart and there are smart people without degrees, but holding a degree does reflect their drive to be competitive; someone who graduates from an Ivy league school busted their ass harder (to get into their school) than someone who attended their local junior college.

I worked my way through college, even after losing a scholarship, and have no debt to anyone's name, and so all the money I make is mine. I know a number of people who are limited in their opportunities and stuck in their jobs simply not for having a degree; they entered their employers when they were young, moved up the ranks, make good money now, but they hate their jobs and can't jump ship because their positions normally would require a degree. The only answer to them would be entrepreneurship.

 

[backbreaker]

What JS is trying to say however is that, just because you graduated from college, doesn't mean you are college educated. Key word being educated.

Look I have no problem at all with college, it's great. College took me out of the hood and put me in a upper middle class neighborhood growing up lol. I have a problem with the college, yet no education. I have a problem with people spending 2 years learning how to design, yet don't know their way around photo shop better than me, who can design but not at a graphic design professional level but good enough to do above avg design work. Enough to get a job done if need be or to fix errors, etc.

I had a guy I am trying out this morning.. 2 years to learn how to program, yet, doesn't know how to integrate facebook into a website, something that is extremely basic something I can do in about 5-6 minutes. I could send this to someone overseas and have it done in 15 minutes. Or let him learn on the job for 2-3 days.

 

[squirrels]

they were brainwashed that a degwee would be their golden ticket. Not so, actually you're just $100K in debt and the guy who didn't go to college is more employable than you. Anymore, a degree really just shows that you can live like a slob on borrowed money and beg from your parents for 4+ years as an adult. Gee, why are employers not banging their doors down?

Before I get attacked by those still under the spell, let me say that I went to college. And I still kick myself for it. It doesn't make you smarter, it doesn't make you the master of the universe, and anymore it doesn't mean jack sh!t. It's supply and demand, folks. And since the government got involved and tried to send everyone to college, the end result is a huge glut of unemployable people with worthless degrees and only a big pile of crushing debt to show for it.

And this ties right into this thread: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180043

 

[5string]

Is this as similar as the delusion that joining the Military makes you a hero or tough?

People join the Military with the expectation the Government will "take care of them". That's babysitting at it's worst.

I'm not shatting on my brethren who sign up to fight the good fight. But there is no draft. It's a choice they all make consciously. A hard fought choice too.

If you go into the Military and get killed, fvck you, that's what you signed up for.

Cops too. When they get shot dead serving a crackhead a warrant for vagrancy, I don't boo-hoo them at all. That's what they collect just above minimum wage every Friday for. They willingly put themselves in a position of danger. Why cry about them when they get it?

What's your problem with people joining the military? I did, and never once "expected" the government to "take care of me".

Ever once consider that people do this because of a sense of patriotic pride and duty to one's country?